Jesse Womack – Land Stewardship is in His Blood
Jesse Womack – Land Stewardship is in His Blood
Jesse Womack wears many hats, but at his core, he is a rancher. He is the fifth generation to operate his family’s ranch near Victoria, Texas, a large-scale cattle operation that uses progressive land management techniques in a very unique landscape. Jesse also works closely with Texas Christian University’s Institute of Ranch Management, traveling far and wide to teach sustainable agricultural techniques to ranchers and farmers around the world. And on top of all of that, he is also a cofounder of Explore Ranches, alongside past podcast guests Jay Kleberg and Allison Ryan.
Responsible land stewardship is in Jesse’s DNA, and it is the foundation of all of his professional ventures. And as you’ll hear, he’s an open-minded, independent, and critical thinker who is able to speak eloquently on a wide array of sometimes-controversial issues surrounding agriculture. When you combine those traits with his rock-solid work ethic and focus, you will understand why he has been able to establish himself as such a leader in agriculture, both in Texas and abroad. Whether you’re deeply involved in agriculture or you’ve never set foot on a ranch, you’ll glean a great deal of value from Jesse’s perspective—his knowledge, passion, and worldly perspective are applicable for any type of endeavor.
Jesse and I went to high school together, and even after knowing him for more than 25 years, I still learned a lot from this conversation. We talk about his work with TCU, and he shares some success stories from his time teaching in Panama, Ghana, Nigeria, and Brazil. He explains the importance of community buy-in and how focusing on commonalities and shared goals can help overcome cultural divides. We talk about his family’s history in Texas, and how he is raising his two sons to love and respect the outdoors. Jesse give a few updates on Explore Ranches, and talks about some exciting events they will be hosting soon. We also chat about his involvement with the Texas Agricultural Land Trust, and how conservation easements can be a useful tool for ranchers in Texas and beyond. And as usual, we discuss favorite books and movies, and Jesse shares the best piece of advice he’s ever received, which I especially appreciated .
Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jesse Womack!
All photos courtesy of Jesse Womack
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Funny story about Jesse’s son
- 5:00 – How Jesse describes his work
- 6:30 – TCU Institute of Ranch Management explained
- 8:30 – Experience in Brazil
- 10:00 – Countries where Jesse works
- 12:45 – Adjusting to different landscapes and cultures
- 14:00 – Success stories from TCU
- 17:45 – Importance of community buy-in
- 20:15 – Challenges of ranching in Brazil
- 23:30 – Misconceptions of ranching by environmentalists
- 30:30 – The need to be open-minded and consider other viewpoints
- 34:30 – Climate change and ranching
- 38:00 – Jesse’s family history in Texas
- 41:30 – Jesse’s family’s commitment to conservation
- 44:30 – Pressure of multigenerational ranch ownership
- 46:00 – Jesse’s career
- 47:30 – Surprises of running a ranch
- 49:00 – Texas Agricultural Land Trust
- 42:30 – Easements as a tool for agricultural
- 55:30 – Updates on Explore Ranches
- 57:30 – Mentors and heroes in ranching
- 59:30 – Our shared experience at Woodberry Forest School
- 52:00 – Lessons learned at Woodberry
- 1:05:30 – Favorite books
- 1:08:15 – Favorite films
- 1:08:45 – Hobbies
- 1:09:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience
- 1:14:15 – Favorite location in the West
- 1:14:45 – Best advice ever recieved
- 1:16:45 – Connect with Jesse online
Information Referenced:
- TCU Institute of Ranch Management
- Explore Ranches
- Jay Kleberg podcast
- Allison Ryan podcast
- John Cain Carter
- Jeff Geider
- Jim Howell podcasts 1 and 2
- Texas Agricultural Land Trust
- Conservation easements
- Woodberry Forest School
- The Big Ranch Country by JW Williams
- The Far Horizons by Christopher Empson
- Narcos
Book Club Selection: “Where the Water Goes” by David Owen
January-February Book Club Selection: Where the Water Goes by David Owen
If you want to understand the West, you need to understand water in the West. It’s an amazingly complex subject, one that only seems to get more complex the deeper I dig. Much of my work at Palmer Land Trust is focused on water, so I’m constantly searching for new books and resources to expand my understanding of this all-important subject.
I’ve read many of the water classics– Cadillac Desert and Beyond the Hundredth Meridian are at the top of that list. But several veteran conservationists I know have recently recommended a different title, one that is relatively new and offers a solid overview of the water challenges specifically along the Colorado River basin. According to them, it’s short, entertaining, and easy-to-read– all characteristics rarely associated with the subject of water in the West!
So, the January-February Book Club selection is:
Where the Water Goes: Life and Death Along the Colorado River by David Owen
This is the first book club selection that I haven’t already read, so I’m excited to plow through it alongside you all. I’ve been relatively slack about commenting over on the Goodreads page, so I’ll try my best to do better this time around. Because so much of my professional energy is devoted toward water conservation, I have lots of interesting supplemental material to share.
For a primer on some of the issues associated with the Colorado River basin, I’d suggest listening to my podcast episode with Pete McBride. He’s a wealth of knowledge when it come to water, especially the Colorado River.
If you’d like to participate:
- Grab a copy of Where the Water Goes—purchase it from Amazon or your local bookseller, or check it out from your local library. Start reading.
- Head over to our Goodreads Group. Create an account, then join in the conversation in the online discussion forum. As you read, give your feedback on the book, pose questions to the group, and share your thoughts as you plow through the adventure.
- The only way this works is with lots of participation from lots of people, so the more the better. DON’T BE SHY!
Mountain & Prairie Book Club – Goodreads Group
Melissa DiNino – Building a Unique Life in Big Sky Country
Melissa DiNino is a biologist, artist, and designer who currently lives and works in Montana’s legendary Tom Miner Basin. A native easterner, Melissa moved West soon after college to work as a range rider– a job that involves monitoring livestock on horseback in an effort to encourage the successful coexistence of livestock and apex predators in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. In her role as a range rider, Melissa developed a deep appreciation for Montana’s spectacular landscapes, the challenging relationship between people and predators, and the importance of compassionate communication between all stakeholders.
Melissa grew up in Connecticut, and developed an early love of adventure and the outdoors while spending time at her family’s cabin in Maine. She’s also a committed athlete and played competitive basketball from age five through college. As you’ll hear, Melissa is humble and soft spoken, but she has a track record of pushing herself hard, both in academics and athletics, as well as in her present-day professional work and art. Although only in her mid-20s, Melissa is wise beyond her years and is committed to doing meaningful work in a place that she loves, surrounded by a supportive community… and she’s making it happen in an inspiring way.
I know regular listeners will really enjoy this conversation, but it will be especially valuable to anyone who is in the early stages of their career, looking to do work that is meaningful and fulfilling. Melissa and I discuss her path to Montana, as well as some of the challenges and funny mishaps of adjusting to life in the West. We talk about the realities of piecing together a variety of different jobs and artistic endeavors, while remaining focused on the big picture of doing work that matters. We chat about lessons learned from athletics, the value of being competitive with oneself, and importance of being willing to “put yourself out there” in creative pursuits. We also dig into some details around wolves, grizzlies, and the importance of civil discourse when discussing emotional subjects like wolves. And as usual, we talk about favorite books, films, and places in the West. Links to everything are in the episode notes.
Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Melissa DiNino!
All photos courtesy of Louise Johns
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
My 12 Favorite Books of 2018
My 12 Favorite Books of 2018
2018 was quite a year—we welcomed our second daughter, I transitioned into full-time land conservation, and the podcast ramped up to a level I’d never expected. All of these exciting (and time-consuming) happenings made me feel that I was constantly behind on my reading, but as it turns out, I managed to crank through a respectable number of really good books.
Below, in the order that I read them, are my favorites from the year. I hope you find a few that are of interest. Here’s to many more great books in 2019!
American Wolf: A True Story of Survival and Obsession in the West by Nate Blakeslee – To truly understand the modern-day West, you need to understand the history of and controversy around wolves. This fast-paced, fun-to-read story follows a wolf pack in Yellowstone National Park, with an emphasis on its charismatic pack leader 0-Six. You won’t be able to put it down.
60 Meters to Anywhere by Brendan Leonard – A raw, heartbreaking, and at-times-hilarious memoir about Brendan’s struggle with and triumph over alcohol addiction. An inspiring testament to the healing power of adventure and purpose-driven time outdoors, as well how struggle can ultimately fuel future success, both personally and professionally.
The Painter by Peter Heller – The first fiction book I’ve read in more than six years, and I loved it. An action-packed story, complex characters, and some of the richest descriptions of Colorado and New Mexico that I’ve ever encountered.
Tiger Woods by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keyeyian – I think about this book at least once per week, probably because as a father, I can’t imagine how in the hell Earl Woods thought the smothering, grinding pressure he put on young Tiger could possibly be healthy. It’s a tale of elite talent, disgusting family dynamics, and the eventual implosion of a cultural icon.
How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence by Michael Pollan – Like most Americans, I considered psychedelic drugs to be the pastime of ex-hippies and going-nowhere-fast burnouts. But leave it to Pollan to change my entire perspective on this subject—turns out, these substances are helping everyone from veterans with PTSD to people with drug-resistant depression to high performers who want to be even better.
On Desperate Ground: The Marines at The Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle by Hampton Sides – Once again, Hampton Sides knocks it out of the park with this story of one of the most brutal battles in American military history. Prior to this book, I knew next to nothing about the Korean War, but as usual, Hampton educated me on little-known history in an engaging and entertaining narrative.
Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now by Jaron Lanier – Seems like the title pretty much sums it up.
Ultimate Glory: Frisbee, Obsession, and My Wild Youth by David Gessner – If you’ve ever pursued a passion that most people would call foolhardy, silly, or a waste of time, then this memoir is for you. Like all of Gessner’s work, it’s hilarious, insightful, honest, and beautifully written. I’m far from a frisbee aficionado, but I gleaned tons of value from this book.
The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim by Pete McBride – Calling this a simple “book” is a blatant understatement. It’s a work of art that combines breathtaking photography, an engaging adventure narrative, and an examination of the conservation challenges facing one of our nation’s most iconic national parks.
Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – A must-read for anyone who loves the West and its history, particularly from a conservation point of view. Sara gracefully packs in an amazing amount of important information and analysis into this relatively short book, starting with human migration into North America and ending in present day and our scramble to find solutions to climate change and natural resource shortages.
Can’t Hurt Me: Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds by David Goggins – The sometimes-hard-to-believe life story of former Navy SEAL and ultra-endurance athlete David Goggins. It’s full of contradictions and foul language, but I found it to be one of the most impiring books I’ve read. I’d encourage you to listen to the audiobook, as it contains behind-the-scenes conversation between the co-author and Goggins.
Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI by David Grann – My first book by Grann, and it won’t be the last. A truth-is-stranger-than-fiction story of a series of insane murders/poisonings on the Osage Indian reservation, and the multi-year hunt for the killer. Narrative history at its best.
2018 Reads
A comprehensive list of every book I recommended in 2018, taken directly from my bimonthly book recommendations email.
American Wolf: A True Story of Survival and Obsession in the West by Nate Blakeslee – When I asked renowned author and historian Dan Flores to recommend his favorite books about the American West, he named American Wolf right alongside Stegner’s Beyond the Hundredth Meridian. You can’t receive much higher praise than that! And I’m pleased to report that the book does not disappoint—it’s an action-packed, engaging narrative of the lives of wolf packs living in and around Yellowstone National Park, with a special emphasis on O-Six, a charismatic pack leader. Wolves are a delicate subject here in the West, and most discussions of the legendary canine are sure to evoke strong reactions from anyone connected to the region. The animal and its influence touch almost every aspect of life in the Rockies, and it’s difficult to understand the region without understanding wolves. I found the book to be balanced, informative, and fun– I highly recommend it. (American Wolf was also the first selection of the Mountain & Prairie Book Club. Visit this Goodreads page to join the discussion.)
12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Jordan B. Peterson – During the past year, I’ve heard Dr. Peterson interviewed on several podcasts, and I’ve become more and more intrigued by his work. He is a Canadian clinical psychologist and college professor by trade, and he has some very interesting ideas on the importance of clearly defining one’s purpose, as well as the benefits of discipline and struggle in service of achieving one’s goals. He is also a staunch critic of political correctness run amok and has engaged in several well-publicized battles with Canada’s government over the issue. Many of his ideas resonate strongly with me, and I thoroughly enjoyed this book. I was particularly taken by “Rule 5: Don’t Let Your Children Do Anything That Makes You Dislike Them,” as his advice on raising children flies in the face of the “everybody gets a trophy” mentality that seems to dominate a lot of modern parenting. I did find myself getting bogged down in some of his discussions about mythology and religion, but I just skipped through that and quickly reengaged. I had high expectations for this book and enjoyed it immensely. [The best Peterson podcast interviews were with Joe Rogan and Jocko Willink.]
Oranges by John McPhee – Whenever I read anything by McPhee, I’m blown away by how clear and precise his writing is — somehow he’s able to walk the tightrope of being fully descriptive of people, places, and events without any excess verbiage or flowery prose. It’s an amazing talent and skill, making it a true pleasure to read anything he has written. This book is simply a biography of the orange. I had no idea how fascinating a piece of fruit could be, but McPhee successfully weaves together history, ecology, biology, agriculture, and sociology in a fun and easy-to-read manner. This book was published in 1975, so I would be interested to read an updated version, one that explains how technological advances in agriculture and genetics have changed the fruit and the citrus-growing process. [You’re probably sick of my recommending it, but if you like biographies of non-people, Cod: A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World by Mark Kurlansky is the best.]
At Home: A Short History of Private Life by Bill Bryson – Speaking of talented writers, Bill Bryson blows my mind. All of his books are absurdly dense, but he presents overwhelming amounts of information in a fun style that allows me to plow through hundreds of pages with very little effort. In At Home, Bryson gives a room-by-room tour of his home in England, explaining its history and linking in an amazing number of tangentially related stories and facts. For example, his discussion of the plum room veers off into the history of Monticello and Mount Vernon, with even more tangents about Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. And when he describes the dining room, it’s not long before he’s explaining the finer points of scurvy and the history of the global spice trade. How he managed to keep my attention, I’ll never know. But every time I started wondering “Where in the hell is he going with this?,” he reigned it in and kept the story moving forward. It’s a great book that would likely be useful for anyone with dreams of trying out for Jeopardy. [Bryson’s A Walk in the Woods: Rediscovering America on the Appalachian Trail is hilarious and worth a read.]
Hell in the Pacific: A Marine Rifleman’s Journey From Guadalcanal to Peleliu by Jim McEnery and Bill Sloan — My maternal grandfather fought in World War II in the Pacific Theater as the commander of an Army amphibious tank battalion. He and his men would storm the beaches of a South Pacific island, fight the entrenched Japanese, secure the island, then move on to the next one. The stories my grandfather told me of those battles are wild, so I was excited to dig into this book and learn more. It is basically the history of two massive battles—Guadalcanal and Peleliu. It’s written just as McEnery would speak, full of “colorful” language and sometimes hilarious descriptions of the battles and harsh tropical conditions. I’d imagine the language could offend some people, but I appreciated that it was unfiltered, providing more realistic insights into the soldiers’ states of mind. If you’re looking for a detailed history lesson about WWII in the Pacific, this is not your book. But if you want a no-holds-barred, entertaining account of what it felt like to be a brave, hard-fighting member of the Greatest Generation, you’ll enjoy it. [I read it over 15 years ago, but D-Day by Stephen Ambrose is a WWII classic.]
When Things Fall Apart: Heartfelt Advice For Difficult Times, The Places that Scare You: A Guide to Fearlessness in Difficult Times, and Start Where You Are: A Guide to Compassionate Living, and by Pema Chodron — I’m not a Buddhist, but I consider the Buddhist nun Pema Chodron to be one of the wisest humans on the planet. Her thoughts on mindfulness, compassion, and fear have significantly affected my life for the better. I keep these three books on my bedside table and thumb through them several times per week. The titles of these books are a bit misleading—they seem slightly morose or aimed at folks dealing with significant tragedies or acute difficulties, which (luckily) I am not. For me, the books present effective mental frameworks for dealing with normal life challenges, the sort that everyone faces on a daily basis. All three books consist of short three-to-five page chapters that can be read quickly, at night before bed or first thing in the morning. My copies are full of underlines and notes, and I’ve found that I gain new insights even after re-reading chapters multiple times. [I also listen to these three Pema audiobooks over and over and over: Don’t Bite The Hook, Getting Unstuck, and Smile at Fear.]
60 Meters to Anywhere by Brendan Leonard – I loved this book—read it in just three sittings. It’s the brutally honest memoir of climber, writer, and all-around creative Brendan Leonard that details his struggle with and triumph over alcohol addiction. At times heartbreaking, other times hilarious, the author holds nothing back as he describes how the outdoors, specifically rock climbing, helped him step off of a destructive, selfish path and onto his current path of living authentically, creatively, and generously. The book is a testament to the healing power of adventure and purpose-driven time outdoors. It’s also a testament to how struggles can ultimately make a person stronger and fuel future success that would not have been possible otherwise. [For another example of transforming a personal liability into great success, read Lincoln’s Melancholy: How Depression Challenged a President and Fueled his Greatness by Joshua Wolf Shenk.]
Make It Till You Make It: 40 Myths and Truths About Creating by Brendan Leonard – If you have a nagging desire to create, but are held back by endless excuses about why it’s not practical, financially viable, blah, blah, blah, then you need to read this short book immediately. It will eliminate the excuses for starting your creative endeavors, but also dispel any silly, meme-driven ideas that creativity is easy. The book is part motivation and part realistic gut check. No, you may not “make it big” as the next internet sensation, but with enough hard work and tenacity, you can make it as a prolific and fulfilled creative. [Pair this book with Steven Pressfield’s War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles, and you’re all set. Then stop reading, and start doing!]
Why Courage Matters: The Way to a Braver Life by John McCain – In my line of work, I have the privilege of dealing with what seems to be an abnormally high number of huckster scumbags. Books like this one help to reinforce my values and steel myself against any temptations to either 1) move over to the darkside or 2) back down from dust-ups with said scumbags. In this book, McCain defines what he believes to be true courage and boldly calls out much of what modern society incorrectly labels as courage. He presents historical and contemporary examples of truly courageous people, while also weaving in the story of his years as a Vietnam prisoner of war. After reading these humbling accounts of realcourage when the stakes were astronomically high, it’s easier for me to muster “courage” for day-to-day personal and professional challenges. This book had been sitting unread on my shelf for 13 years—I’m glad I finally picked it up. [Another perspective-shifting book involving a brave prisoner of war is Man’s Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl.]
The Nature Fix: Why Nature Makes Us Happier, Healthier, and More Creative by Florence Williams – Few would argue with the fact that being outside is good for us, but it’s staggering how little time the average American spends outdoors. The Nature Fix is essentially 300 pages of fun-to-read evidence that explains exactly why nature is so beneficial to us, both mentally and physically. In an engaging and witty style, Williams builds her case from every angle, and in the end, leaves little doubt that we should all be spending much more time in nature. Personally, there’s a direct correlation between time spent in the outdoors and my moods, productivity, and overall sense of well-being—so I didn’t need convincing. But I thoroughly enjoyed understanding the specific scientific and evolutionary reasons for why nature is so important to me (and to all of us cooped-up modern-day homo sapiens).
Travels with Charley: In Search of America by John Steinbeck – So many friends mention Steinbeck as one of their all-time favorite authors, so I decided to finally dig into his work. After only a few dozen pages of this book, I was totally sold—and I expect to soon break my weird no-fiction rule to read more of his catalogue. Travels With Charley is a travelogue of Steinbeck’s around-the-country road trip with his poodle Charley, a narrative that melds his impressions of America’s landscapes, interactions with local characters, and his own personal musings on the state of the nation. Interestingly, many of his concerns about the United States (loss of regional character, industrialization, racism, etc.) echo modern-day worries that dominate the current national conversation. It makes me feel a little better to know that these worries may very well be common throughout all chapters of our country’s history—perhaps things aren’t as monumentally bad as they can seem today. Excellent book, and I expect it is the standard by which all travelogues are judged. [My favorite travelogue is another Pulitzer Prize winner—Barbarian Days: A Surfing Life by William Finnegan.]
Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression—and the Unexpected Solutions by Johann Hari – Ever since reading Sebastian Junger’s Tribe, I’ve been obsessed with the idea that lack of community and purpose is the driver of most modern-day societal unhappiness. Lost Connections digs into the crisis of rampant depression and anxiety in many developed nations, particularly the US and the UK. Citing a ton of scientific research, he explains that depression and anxiety are not caused primarily by chemical imbalances in the brain, but rather by societal problems such as disconnections from meaningful work, values, the natural world, and other people. More controversially, he makes the case that pharmaceutical-grade medications may not make a significant impact on curbing depression and anxiety—but they certainly help big pharma companies’ bottom lines to the tune of billions of dollars. If you suffer from depression, know someone who does, or just have an interest in the subject, I highly recommend this book. It’s a welcome new perspective and will make you think. [Have I mentioned that I like the book Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging? Oh, I did? 157 times you say? Well, have you read it yet? No? Then buy it, and read it!]
The Painter by Peter Heller – My weird 6+ year abstention from fiction came to an abrupt end with this book, and I now realize how much I’ve been missing. Having recently spent time in Paonia (the town where the book is set), I could not get enough of Heller’s beautifully accurate descriptions of Colorado’s Western Slope—it was just as good or better than the best non-fiction I’ve read describing the region. His descriptions of northern New Mexico are equally compelling, as are the book’s fly fishing scenes. I found myself underlining line after line of the protagonist’s inner dialogue—who knew you could learn important life lessons from made-up people’s thoughts?! And to top it all off, the storyline was addictive, with more than enough fighting and action to keep my easily distracted brain fully engaged. I loved this book and look forward to reading more of Heller’s fiction… and fiction in general. [I’ve read most of Heller’s non-fiction work and especially enjoyed Kook: What Surfing Taught Me About Love, Life, and Catching the Perfect Wave.]
The Wise Heart: A Guide to the Universal Teachings of Buddhist Psychology by Jack Kornfield – I had listened to countless interviews with Jack Kornfield but never read any of his 15 books until now. I’m glad I finally dove into his work, because his writing is even more compelling than his talks. He’s a Dartmouth graduate, Peace Corps alum, former Buddhist monk, and PhD-level clinical psychologist, so it’s safe to say he knows a thing or two about how the mind works. I’ve been meditating for years but gleaned great value and fresh perspectives from his explanations of the most basic premises of mindfulness and compassion. The book also offered several advanced concepts that were completely new to me and will require more thinking (or not thinking) to fully appreciate. Kornfield has a unique ability to marry difficult-to-grasp spiritual lingo with hard-nosed clinical research, producing ideas that are equally interesting and useful. Whether you’re a mindfulness beginner or expert, this book is worth a read. [In a similar vein, I highly recommend Turning the Mind Into an Ally by Sakyong Mipham.]
Tiger Woods by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keyeyian – For the love of Pete! This book was intense. I inhaled it. And truth be told, I felt a little dirty afterward. It’s the most thorough biography to date of Tiger Woods written by two seasoned journalists with no apparent axes to grind, so I expected it to be a balanced examination and not sensational nonsense. But Tiger’s bizarro life seems to be a case of truth being more sensational than fiction. Two PG-rated highlights: 1) Tiger’s dad forced him to practice golf for two hours a day when he was two years old, and 2) Tiger was obsessed with Navy SEALs and trained to become one, which contributed to his career-derailing injuries. On one hand, I’m amazed and impressed with Tiger’s work ethic, toughness, and single-minded focus. On the other, I feel extremely sorry for him because of the immense pressure his parents placed on him and the isolation he endured as a kid. This new understanding of Tiger’s childhood makes me feel much more sympathy toward him and the dumpster fire that his life became back in 2010. His is a cautionary tale about the dangers of being wound too tightly, or, if you are a parent, of pushing your kids too hard without demonstrating unconditional love. [Another in-depth, engaging (but less dirty) biography that I really enjoyed was The Snowball: Warren Buffett and the Business of Life by Alice Schroeder.]
How to Break Up with Your Phone: A Thirty Day Plan to Take Back Your Life by Catherine Price – The fact that a book like this was written says a lot about the problem that these dang “phones” are causing in our society. If I had it my all-or-nothing way, I’d just throw mine off a bridge, but personal and professional expectations make that approach impractical. This book presents the next-best approach, and Price uses scientific studies and a good sense of humor to fully describe just how harmful these devices can be for adults, children, and society. While I’ve had a gut feeling that unfettered phone-checking is not healthy, Price provides the scary proof I needed to make a more concerted effort to be mindful in my phone use. Frankly, I did not get much value from the 30-day plan in the second half of the book—the first half was enough of a wake-up call to spur me to be better about shunning my phone. This is a good read for all smartphone users or those who are considering allowing their kids to have one. [For a book that likens phones to heroin, check out The Craving Mind: From Cigarettes to Smartphones to Love—Why We Get Hooked and How We Can Break Bad Habits by Judson Brewer.]
All the Wild that Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West by David Gessner – I re-read this book in preparation for a conversation with the author, and it was even better the second time. When I first read it, I did not know much about Stegner or Abbey, nor did I appreciate how deeply their ideas have influenced thinking around the modern-day West. The book led me to explore many new authors and ideas that I would not have otherwise found—it was almost like discovering a map that led me on a multi-year journey. When re-reading it, I realized how much I have learned and that my understanding of the West is much more nuanced than it was when I first read the book. I also re-absorbed valuable information that my low-powered brain had forgotten since my first reading. If you love the West, I can’t recommend this book enough. But be warned, it will lead to many more book purchases (or library loans) and countless hours studying Stegner, Abbey, Berry, TR, and the like. [If you’re interested, here’s my enlightening and hilarious conversation with David Gessner.]
Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American Westby Hampton Sides – In an exciting turn of events, I was invited to the Aspen Institute to interview Hampton Sides on stage at a seminar about the history of the 19th-Century American West. Given that Hampton is one of my all-time favorite authors and that the Aspen Institute and its supporters do not suffer fools, I immediately reread Blood and Thunder, paying closer attention to it than to any book I read during my entire formal education. And the book was even better the second time around—Hampton has an unparalleled ability to make complex history understandable and exciting, thanks in part to his engaging, action-packed writing style. Blood and Thunder is one of my favorite books of all time, and everyone I know who’s read it has loved it. It’s one of those books that introduces you to countless characters and concepts that will warrant further reading and study—it’s a gateway drug into deep Western history. Can’t recommend it enough. [Want to learn about the West without the hassle of words and stuff? Then head over to my blog to watch or listen to my conversation with Hampton.]
Kitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly by Anthony Bourdain – Even though I’m pretty much the opposite of a “foodie,” I really admired Anthony Bourdain. He seemed like an authentic and kind man who was genuinely interested in learning about new people and places. I was so sad to learn of his tragic death, so I decided to finally read his book, which had been recommended to me by so many friends. First of all, he was a damn good writer. It’s hard for me to get my head around the fact that this was his first book—many people write their entire lives and never come close to his level of mastery. Secondly, I couldn’t put the book down. It opened my eyes to the world of the restaurant business, a world that I knew almost nothing about. It’s a very sketchy subculture filled with some wacky characters—people that I would never want to associate with—but they definitely make for good storytelling. If you’re easily offended or grossed out, I wouldn’t recommend this book. But if you’re up for a shocking, raunchy, and sometimes hilarious account of the underbelly of the high-end restaurant business, check it out. [The best book about food I’ve ever read is Michael Pollan’s Omnivore’s Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals.]
How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence by Michael Pollan – I’m biased (see above), but I believe that Pollan is one of the world’s most impactful, respected contemporary voices on agriculture and food production. In this book, he brings a great deal of credibility to a subject that has long been relegated to the world of hippies and stoners—psychedelic drugs. Pollan starts with the history of psychedelics, with an emphasis on psilocybin and LSD, and explains how and why these compounds became so despised by the US government, and in turn, by society. Then he describes how these compounds are slowly reemerging back into mainstream science, thanks to research suggesting that the drugs can help cure everything from severe anxiety to PTSD to treatment-resistant depression. More interestingly, he explains how psychedelics can make healthy people better, and he recounts his own first-hand experiences with the drugs and the benefits he experienced. Pollan is the perfect author to tackle such an unnecessarily controversial subject, and I’ll be interested to watch how society’s openness to psychedelics evolves in the coming years. [Here are two podcasts with Pollan in which he discusses the book: Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan.]
Draft No. 4: On the Writing Process by John McPhee – In all of my conversations with writers, time and again John McPhee is referenced as one of the greatest non-fiction authors and teachers. So when I learned that he’d written a book strictly about his writing process, I ordered it immediately. It’s not a “fun” read. It reminds me more of an engineering textbook than a discussion around creating art… but I loved it. McPhee’s obsession with structure above all else is fascinating, and I was amazed to learn how much behind-the-scenes planning goes into his work before he pens a single word. If anything, this book underscores how damn hard it must be to write a (good) book, and it only reinforces my respect for the people who do it so well. [One of my favorite McPhee books is Encounters with the Archdruid: Narratives About a Conservationist and Three of His Natural Enemies, which he details in Draft No. 4.]
Rough Beauty: Forty Seasons of Mountain Living by Karen Auvinen – Speaking of authors who write amazingly well, Auvinen manages to blend a few of my favorite genres (memoir, the natural world) with my favorite landscape on earth (the American West). She also combines several themes that are close to my heart—self-reliance, community, our deep connection with dogs, mountain living, and toughness. The end result is an honest, raw, and beautifully written account of her life, with an emphasis on her time spent living alone high on the eastern flank of Colorado’s front range. She dives deep into the challenges of mountain living, including losing her cabin and all her possessions to a house fire. Her description of having to put her long-time canine companion to sleep destroyed me, but it was about as sweet of a description of the event as one could hope to read. Great book, and I plowed through it. I’m already looking forward to reading whatever she writes next. [Thanks to David Gessner for turning me on to this book. Read any/all of his books, you’ll be glad you did.]
On Desperate Ground: The Marines at The Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle by Hampton Sides – As many of you know, I’m a huge fan of Hampton Sides’ work—his ability to distill complex history into a fun yet informative narrative is unparalleled. This brand new book is no exception. Embarrassingly, I knew next to nothing about the Korean War and absolutely nothing about the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir. True to form, Hampton tells a thrilling tale of one of the most brutal battles in modern US military history, all while deeply examining the characters who played roles in both the fighting and the planning. Douglas MacArthur, Mao Zedong, Harry Truman, Oliver Smith and many others are all examined, compared, and contrasted, which makes for a cautionary tale of what can happen when power is too concentrated and big egos are allowed to run wild. After plowing through this amazing story, I not only have a better appreciation for the history of this under-appreciated war, but also a new understanding of our modern-day conflict with North Korea. [A few weeks ago, Hampton and I discussed this book, as well as his writing routines in this fun and funny conversation.]
Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now by Jaron Lanier – Lanier is a Silicon Valley veteran who played significant roles in companies and technologies that defined the early days of the internet. Thanks to his decades of insider experience, he’s uniquely qualified to understand the increasingly shady motivations of mega-corporations like Facebook. In this succinct and easy-to-read book, Lanier lays out a systematic and compelling case for why everyone should strongly consider stepping away from social media. He provides creepy details on exactly how these technologies work, the companies’ goals of creating social media addicts, and the research that demonstrates social media’s detrimental impacts on users’ psyches. He also explores just how damaging social media can be to society, from both political and economic standpoints. I have yet to delete my social media accounts, but this book has taken me a few steps closer to that inevitable end point. [Speaking of addiction to social media, I once again recommend The Craving Mind: From Cigarettes to Smartphones to Love—Why We Get Hooked and How We Can Break Bad Habits by Judson Brewer.]
Ultimate Glory: Frisbee, Obsession, and My Wild Youth by David Gessner – I am not at all into Ultimate Frisbee, but I absolutely loved this book. It’s a revealing and often-hilarious memoir built around Gessner’s all-consuming obsession with the little-known, little-respected sport of Ultimate Frisbee. From his college years at Harvard to his time struggling to become a published author to a bout with testicular cancer and a move out West, Ultimate was the central thread that connected all aspects of Gessner’s young adulthood. Given my experience running ultramarathons and climbing big, cold mountains, I fully appreciate Gessner’s funny and insightful examination of the pursuit of challenges that appear silly or contrived to the outside world, but can be the most meaningful experience of the participant’s life. I especially loved his exploration of the importance of nonconformity, as well as his discussion of the comradery that results from pursuing a shared goal with a team, and the ensuing ability to put personal differences aside in service of that goal. [For another great story of personal obsession with a niche, some-might-say-silly sport, read Barbarian Days: A Surfing Life by William Finnegan.]
The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim by Pete McBride – Calling this work of art a simple “book” is a blatant understatement. It’s a 236-page tome that combines breathtaking photography, an engaging adventure narrative, and an examination of the conservation challenges facing one of our nation’s most iconic national parks. Pete and his buddy, author Kevin Fedarko, hiked the entire 800-mile length of the Grand Canyon, a feat of endurance and exploration that is as hardcore of an adventure as anyone could dream up—more people have stood on the surface of the moon than hiked the length of the Canyon. Not only did they complete the challenge, but Pete managed to assemble a completely unique catalogue of Grand Canyon imagery, offering a new perspective on a landscape I thought I knew fairly well. And if that’s not enough, Hampton Sides wrote the foreword and Fedarko wrote the introduction, making for a truly all-star collaboration. [Hate reading? Then listen to my conversation with Pete in which we discuss the book, the Colorado River, and his life of adventure.]
Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – I had the pleasure of spending a few days with Sara at the Aspen Institute this summer, and she is an amazing wealth of knowledge about the history of the American West, as well as modern-day challenges facing the region. Even more impressive, in both her writing and speech, she is able to convey hard-to-understand (and sometimes dull) topics such as water rights and land use legislation in exciting and digestible language. As the title suggests, Losing Eden lays out the history of the West, starting with human migration into North America 15-30,000 years ago and ending in present day and our scramble to find solutions to climate change and natural resource shortages… with ample coverage of Teddy Roosevelt, John Muir, and Aldo Leopold throughout. Being a guy who’s read a ton of history about this region, I found this book’s presentation completely new and unique. There is so much useful information and analysis gracefully jammed into this relatively short book. It’s also a valuable resource for further learning—each chapter ends with a “suggested reading” list, which will allow me to dig even deeper into the topics presented in this book. Thanks to Sara, my “need to read” list just quadrupled in size. [For everything you ever wanted to know about pre-human North America, read American Serengeti: The Last Big Animals of the Great Plains by Dan Flores.]
Modern Huntsman: Volume 2 – Although not technically a book, this 250+ page biannual publication definitely deserves a proud spot on this list. As more and more periodicals are dumbing down their content or abandoning print all together, my friend Tyler Sharp and his top-notch team of adventure-loving creatives have done just the opposite. Modern Huntsman explores complicated issues of conservation, hunting, and wild places in a nuanced, substantive manner rarely found anywhere, much less in print magazines. The articles are terrific, and it is an added bonus that they are presented in a beautifully bound magazine that I’ll display on my bookcase for years to come. Volume 2 is focused on issues surrounding public lands, a timely subject at the front of all outdoor adventurers’ minds, from birders to hunters, climbers to ATVers. Hunter or not, if you’re an advocate of public lands, I’m confident you’ll enjoy this issue of Modern Huntsman. [My other favorite beautifully bound, substantive periodical is The Surfer’s Journal.]
This Is Marketing: You Can’t Be Seen Until You Learn to See by Seth Godin – When it comes to doing creative, meaningful work, there is no one who has been more influential on my thinking than Seth Godin. I have read almost every book he’s written, and I can’t overstate the positive effects that his philosophies have had on my life and career. This Is Marketing is his newest book, and it is much more than a simple “marketing” how-to manual. It’s about picking yourself, building (and then leading) a tribe, and doing work that matters to you and your tribe. It’s about finding your niche audience and avoiding the “race to the bottom” of trying to be all things to all people. If you’ve read some of Seth’s work, this book crystalizes his old ideas while presenting some fascinating new insights. If you’ve never read anything of Seth’s, this book is a good place to start. Highly recommend. [Anything by Seth is great, but I especially benefited from Linchpin, Tribes, Purple Cow, and What To Do When It’s Your Turn.]
Can’t Hurt Me: Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds by David Goggins – If you are easily offended by vulgar language, do not buy this book—Goggins, a former Navy SEAL, elite ultrarunnner, and endurance athlete, holds nothing back in this memoir/self-help hybrid. But if you’re looking for a life story that is simultaneously heartbreaking, inspirational, and sometimes hard to believe, then you’ll get a kick out of this book. Goggins grew up in a terribly abusive family and by his early twenties, his life was a mess—he weighed over 300 pounds, worked the midnight shift spraying for roaches in fast food joints, and was miserable. Then, surprisingly, he was offered an opportunity to try out for the Navy SEALS, with one catch—he had to lose over 100 pounds in less than three months to be accepted into the program. He lost the 100 pounds, which began an amazing journey of personal transformation that led to a long-term career in the SEALs, Army Ranger School, dozens of ultramarathons, a pull-up world record (4,025 in 17 hours), and more hardcore endurance madness. I listened to the audiobook– my first in years– which I highly recommend. It’s read by his co-author, with breaks of podcast-like conversations between the co-author and Goggins. Very entertaining, but definitely rated R. [If you want a sample of Goggins and his language, check out this podcast with Joe Rogan.]
Life Work by Donald Hall – Best-selling author David Gessner references Life Work as a meaningful and significant influence on his career as a creative—so if it’s good enough for Gessner, it’s damn sure good enough for me. Less of a book and more of a meandering meditation, Life Work is a deep dive into Hall’s life as a professional writer, presented in a poetic style that is completely unique and engrossing, even for a non-poet like me. The book extolls the value of hard work and that the “secret” to a happy life is embracing the work itself—the process of working—not the finished poem, completed book, or any other goal. He hammers this point home slowly, winding his way through his family’s history, his cancer diagnosis, and his daily rituals. But somehow he never crosses over into being too artsy or smug—to me, Hall comes off as a funny, insightful, practical, and maybe curmudgeonly fellow. My favorite quote from the book is when he asks sculptor Henry Moore for his secret to life. Moore’s response: “The secret of life is to have a task, something you devote your entire life to, something you bring everything to, every minute of the day for your whole life. And the most important thing is–it must be something you cannot possibly do!” [Again, my favorite book on the creative process is The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield.]
The Checklist Manifesto: How to Get Things Right by Atul Gawande – I’m not sure how I came across this book, but I’m so glad I did. Gawande, a renowned surgeon, author, and professor, describes the mind-blowing complexity of today’s healthcare system, and how even routine medical procedures can be fraught with risk. Infections, mismanagement of medication, and blatant mistakes such as performing the wrong surgery on patients are much more common than they should be. And as our knowledge of medicine increases, so do the variables associated with any diagnosis, compounding the problems. It will scare you (especially if you have any upcoming surgeries), but Gawande offers a potential solution. He convincingly argues that the key to solving these complex problems is the simplest of tools: an old-fashioned checklist. Gawande finds that following simple, well-crafted checklists drastically reduce mistakes and mishaps not only in the medical world, but in business, aviation, construction, and more. Apparently Gawande’s ideas have prompted the World Health Organization to more widely adopt the use of simple checklists. This book is a good reminder to always seek the simplest solution, no matter how complex the problem.
Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI by David Grann – In the last few months, three trusted friends told me I needed to read this book, so I picked it up at one of my favorite independent bookstores—BookPeople in Austin, Texas. Written by veteran journalist and master wordsmith Grann, the book is part mystery and part history lesson, but written in a fast-paced and easy-to-read manner that is reminiscent of one of my other favorite narrative historians, Hampton Sides. As the subtitle indicates, the book covers a series of almost-hard-to-believe murders and poisonings on the Osage Indian Reservation—home of the Osage Tribe who struck it mega rich during the oil boom of the early 20th century. What follows the murders is mass paranoia on the reservation, a series of ineffective vigilante investigations, and the eventual takeover of the case by the FBI, led by a young, nutty-ass J. Edgar Hoover. Whether you’re into history, thrillers, or straight-up journalism, you’ll love this book. Read it! I’m very excited to check out more of Grann’s work. [For more of the best narrative history, check out Hampton Sides’ Hellhound on His Trail: The Electrifying Account of the Largest Manhunt in American History.]
Make Your Bed: Little Things That Can Change Your Life… and Maybe the World by Admiral William H. McRaven – Another book by a Navy SEAL, but much more refined and “for the masses” than Goggins’. It’s a short and easy-to-read book based around the Admiral’s 2014 commencement address at the University of Texas that went viral throughout the world-wide-internets. The book is full of time-honored, easy-to-understand truisms, that, if followed, would surely improve anyone’s life. While I didn’t find any of his lessons or suggestions groundbreaking or new, I did find great value in his succinct presentation. There’s no fluff here, and it’s the type of book that you can pick up, flip through for a few minutes here and there, and still glean some value. Self-help books are a dime a dozen, and many times the authors’ qualifications are dubious at best. But this Admiral’s stellar career speaks for itself, so I’m happy to learn even a few of his strategies for living a meaningful, successful life. [Looking for even more Navy SEAL books? Check out Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin.]
Allison Ryan – Connecting People With Place
Allison Ryan is a West Texas native and co-founder of Explore Ranches, a company that connects its customers with spectacular private ranches throughout Texas and Colorado—some have described it as “AirBnB for ranches.” For those seeking a truly unique outdoor experience, Explore Ranches offers access to private land that has rarely, if ever, been visited by the public. And for the ranch owner, Explore Ranches creates an additional revenue stream to support the costs of land ownership, encourage conservation, and reduce the likelihood of subdividing large ranches due to financial strain. Given the lack of public land in Texas and the financial realities of owning large ranches, Explore Ranches offers a welcome solution for both landowners and adventure-loving non-landowners.
Allison grew up in El Paso, Texas, in a conservation-minded family that valued time in the outdoors and understood the importance of land stewardship. Between her childhood experiences at summer camp in West Texas, time spent on her family’s ranch, and a love of fitness and wellness, Allison has a deep understanding of the many benefits of recreating in open spaces. But Allison is also familiar with the financial commitments of land ownership, and she understands first hand the need to identify new revenue streams in order to make ranch ownership financially viable. In fact, her family’s ranch, known as the Withers, is available on Explore Ranches– it serves as an excellent case study that demonstrates the need that Explore Ranches fulfills for landowners.
If you listened to my recent interview with Allison’s co-founder Jay Kleberg, you may remember that we briefly discussed Explore Ranches. But in this conversation with Allison, we dig into the nitty-gritty details of the business—how the idea came about, descriptions of some of the available properties, and the challenges and opportunities arising from the small amount of private land in Texas. We discuss how Explore Ranches can be a useful tool for landowners, and why her family’s ranch was a prime candidate to partner with Explore Ranches. We talk about her childhood in West Texas, conservation lessons learned from her parents and grandparents, and some of her formative experiences in the outdoors. Allison also dives into her other career in the fitness world, and I veer the conversation completely off track by asking way too many questions about diet, exercise, and fasting—if you like any of my interviews with professional athletes, you’ll probably enjoy that part. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and her most powerful outdoor experience.
Take a moment to visit Explore Ranches—there are links in the episode notes. And please enjoy this fun conversation with Allison Ryan.
All photos courtesy of Logan Lewis
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Jay Kleberg interview
- Dan Flores trespassing article
- Dan Flores podcast
- The Withers
- Prude Ranch
- Hudspeth River Ranch
- Fed Up
- Jamie Oliver
- Intermittent Fasting
- Ben Masters interview
- Big Bend: A Homesteaders Story by JO Langford
- Manhunt by James Swanson
- Hellhound on His Trail by Hampton Sides
- Hampton Sides interviews 1 and 2
- Unbranded
A Few of My (Current) Favorite Podcasts
A Few of My (Current) Favorite Podcasts
For a guy who has his own podcast about the American West, I rarely listen to any western or outdoor-related podcasts. I’m endlessly fascinated by interesting people, so almost all of my podcasts of choice are in-depth interviews. The specifics of the interviewees’ vocations or avocations rarely matter to me—as long as they are passionate about their pursuits and offer some valuable insights, I could listen to interviews all day.
Below, in no particular order, are a few of my current favorites, followed by a specific episode from each that I especially enjoyed. These are only the podcasts that I listen to regularly, not including podcast series that I enjoyed (e.g. Bundyville and S-Town). And none of these podcasts have my undivided attention—just like you, I pick and choose episodes.
The Tim Ferriss Show – Long-form interviews with “world-class performers.” I especially love the guests’ book recommendations, as well as the extensive show notes that link to all the resources that were discussed. [A.J. Jacobs: Self-Experimenter Extraordinaire]
The Axe Files – Despite my disdain for today’s politics, I thoroughly enjoy listening to David Axelrod chat with political minds from both sides of the aisle. No matter how far apart he and his guests may be ideologically, they always have substantive, civil, and engaging conversations. [Ep. 288 – Barack Obama]
Jocko Podcast – Jocko Willink is a former Navy SEAL and seems to be to be one of the most hardcore men on the planet. He and his guest are full of useful wisdom that I’ve found to be very beneficial in my day-to-day life. [135: Supreme Excellence with Discomfort and Extreme Ownerhip. With Dave Berke.]
Meateater – This is the only outdoor-related podcast that I regularly listen to, and it is great. Steven Rinella is a wealth of knowledge on all things conservation, wildlife, public lands, hunting, and more. Plus he’s hysterical and surrounds himself with a top-notch crew. [Ep. 069: Dr. Dan Flores]
The Forward – Lance Armstrong (yes, that Lance Armstrong) has low-key conversations with a wide variety of interesting people from business, sports, music, comedy, and more. [Avett Brothers]
The Joe Rogan Experience – Joe seems to be one of the most authentic guys around and is amazingly well-versed in a huge array of subject matters. Other than the MMA-focused episodes, I find almost all of his conversations entertaining and funny. [#1204 – Steven Rinella]
Waking Up – Sam Harris is one of my favorite authors and thinkers, and his ability to speak in depth on extremely complex and sometimes-controversial issues is second to none. Plus he is an expert in meditation and mindfulness, which is very useful to me. [#140 – Burning Down the Fourth Estate]
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend – This podcast is brand new, but I love it. I was laughing so hard while washing the dishes the other night that my three-year old daughter came over to inquire about what the hell was going on. [Will Ferrell]
The Rich Roll Podcast – Rich is a wellness guru and endurance athlete, and he also seems to be just a super-nice dude. [Dan Harris On The Power Of Meditation For the Fidgety Skeptic]
Criminal – This is the only non-interview, storytelling podcast that I regularly listen to, and it is so damn good. Every time. [Episode 100: Ten Thousand Feet in the Air]
The Moment – Brian Koppelman chats with writers, filmmakers, chefs, actors, and the occasional business leader or four-star general. Lots of discussion about the creative process, breaking through creative blocks, and creating work that is authentic. [General Stanley McChrystal]
Here’s the Thing – Alec Baldwin is hilarious, curious and asks rapid-fire questions, so no matter who the guest is, it’s a great listen. [Questlove Can’t Take a Compliment]
How I Built This – I love biographies and stories of entrepreneurship, and this podcast combines both in a highly produced, yet fully engaging format. [FUBU: Daymond John]
Revisionist History – I will read or listen to anything Malcom Gladwell produces. [Free Brian Williams]
Fresh Air – Of course. Terry Gross is the master. [Free Climbing Yosemite’s “Dawn Wall”]
And if none of these catch your attention, you should try this one about innovative people in the West. If you ignore the dumbass host with the weird accent, the guests are pretty amazing.
Jay Kleberg – True Dedication to Conservation, Adventure & Texas
Jay Kleberg is a conservationist and Associate Director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation. He’s also the co-founder of Explore Ranches, a new company that connects outdoor enthusiasts to some of the most iconic private ranches in Texas and beyond. Jay has built his career and life around a deep respect for land and an inborn sense of responsibility to protect these landscapes, as well as the wildlife and heritage they support. As a sixth-generation Texan landowner, responsible land stewardship is in Jay’s blood, and as you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s laser-focused on leaving Texas an even better place than he found it.
Growing up on his family’s large-scale South Texas working ranch, Jay has been closely connected to the land for as long as he can remember. After high school and college on the east coast, Jay headed to Brazil for several years, where he worked with renowned conservationist John Cain Carter to protect the region’s threatened landscapes. It was in Brazil that Jay began to hone his personal conservation philosophy and had a number of crazy adventures along the way. After working a stint in for-profit real estate and earning his MBA, Jay decided to focus all of his professional energy on conservation in his home state.
Jay and I have been friends for over 25 years, so it was a real treat to connect with him on the podcast to discuss our shared passions for land conservation and adventure… we normally just re-tell hilarious stories from high school! As usual, we cover a lot– we discuss his upbringing on his family ranch and lessons learned from both his family and the larger ranch community. We talk about his time in Brazil, conservation challenges in South America, and one close call in a small airplane that could’ve been the end of Jay. We discuss Explore Ranches, his work with Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation, his role in the upcoming film “The River and the Wall,” and other adventures throughout the West. We also discuss the importance of humility and honesty, benefits of having a for-profit mentality in the nonprofit world, favorite books, films, and more.
Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything… there’s a ton of great information here. I know you’ll enjoy this fun conversation with Jay Kleberg.
All photos courtesy of Ben Masters
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
1:24:00 – Connect with Jay online
- Jay on Instagram and Facebook
- Explore Ranches
- Explore Ranches on Instagram and Facebook
- Explore Ranches team
- Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation
- The River and the Wall
- The King Ranch
- Ben Masters podcast
- John Cain Carter
- The River of Doubt by Candice Millard
- Woodberry Forest School
- Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne
- Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose
- The Nature Fix by Florence Williams
- The Dawn Wall
- Charged
- Becca Skinner podcast
- Teen Wolf
- Great Divide Mountain Bike Tour
Daniel Anderson – Finding Common Ground
Daniel Anderson is a Montana native and founder of The Common Ground Project, a nature-based retreat, hiking, and camping experience in which small groups of people from around the world share adventure, education, and conversation. Located on Daniel’s family ranch in the heart of Montana’s renowned Tom Miner Basin, The Common Ground Project seeks to strengthen connections between people, wildlife, and the stunning landscapes of the American West. As you’ll hear, Daniel and his family’s multi-generational commitment to community and holistic land stewardship make them the perfect people to pass along the wisdom they’ve gained from the land and from life in the Rockies.
To call Daniel’s personal story “fascinating” would be quite an understatement. Born in Missoula and raised in the Tom Miner Basin, Daniel attended boarding school on the east coast and graduated from college with a degree in engineering. But soon after beginning his professional career in California, doctors discovered two fist-sized, cancerous tumors in his body, one attached to his kidney and the other to his aorta. The cancer diagnosis, subsequent treatment, and return to health sharpened Daniel’s focus on the importance of helping and connecting with others, and also led him on a ten-year journey of rigorous personal spiritual work. The cumulative result of all of these intense life experiences was the creation of The Common Ground Project.
So, as you’ve probably gathered, Daniel is an interesting dude. We only covered a fraction of what I’d hoped to discuss, but I know you’ll enjoy the conversation. We discussed The Common Ground Project, the genesis of the idea, and the moment he decided to make the plan a reality. We also talked about lessons learned from his cancer experience and wisdom gleaned from his tight-knit family, including his grandfather who purchased their ranch in the 1950s after being a POW during World War II. We chatted about his family’s long-standing commitment to collaborative land stewardship in the Tom Miner Basin, and the challenges and opportunities of land ownership in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Finally, we discussed influential books, his most powerful outdoor experience, and the insights Daniel has gained from a decade of rigorous spiritual inquiry… with mentors that even include a Peruvian shaman.
I encourage you to check out The Common Ground Project online and if the mission speaks to you, consider donating to their Indiegogo campaign. Links to everything are in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Daniel Anderson.
All photos courtesy of Louise Johns
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- The Common Ground Project
- Indigogo Campaign
- Daniel on Instagram
- The Common Ground Project on Instagram
- Louise Johns
- Tom Miner Basin Association
- Paradise Valley
- Good article about the Tom Miner Basin
- TCGP leadership team
- Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
- Ismael by Daniel Quinn
- Last Child in the Woodsby Richard Louv
- Presence by Peter Senge et. al.
- Mountain & Prairie book list
- Becca Frucht
- Melissa DiNino
- Jaunita Vero interview
- Trails Plowed Underby Charles Russell
- Living in the Futures Past
- Road House (aka Greatest Movie of All Time)
- Dumb and Dumber
- Last of the Mohicans
- Avatar
- The Man from Snowy River
- Lonesome Dove
- The Dude and the Zen Master by Jeff Bridges
- Charles Post interview
- The Great Animal Orchestra by Bernie Krause
Alexis Bonogofsky – Taking a Stand for the West
Alexis Bonogofsky is a rancher, conservationist, and community organizer who is fiercely committed to protecting the landscapes and communities of eastern Montana. While much of Alexis’s career has been devoted to environmental issues in the West, the 2011 Exxon oil spill in the Yellowstone River brought the fight to her doorstep—her family’s pastures were inundated with oil, threatening not only the local ecosystem, but the livelihoods of her family and community. Since that spill and the ensuing battle with Exxon, Alexis has become an outspoken advocate for ranchers, farmers, and rural Montana stakeholders. Through her writing, photography, and old-fashioned relationship-building, Alexis has become an invaluable force in bringing people together even in today’s divisive political climate.
Alexis grew up in eastern Montana as part of a tight-knit, hardworking, blue-collar family. Her parents engrained in her a rock-solid work ethic, a deep sense of responsibility, and a refusal to back down from bullies– characteristics that have served her well in her life and career. Alexis studied international development in undergrad and grad school, but decided that rather than taking her expertise to another country, she could apply those invaluable skills to her home of eastern Montana. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Alexis is humble and open-minded, but completely unwavering when it comes to standing up against individuals or companies that seek to take advantage of the less powerful.
I can’t overstate how much I enjoyed this conversation. Alexis is a shining example of the impact that one person can have if she’s willing to work hard, be humble, play the long game, and have the bravery to put herself out there. We cover a lot, including the Exxon oil spill and how it affected her life, work, and sense of responsibility. We talk about her time working with Native Americans as part of the Tribal Lands Partnership, and some of the wisdom gained from that job. She discusses the lessons learned from her parents and shares some thoughts on her father’s tragic death several years ago. We also delve into her writing process, hunting, public lands, goats, llamas, and our mutual contempt for bullies. And Alexis also offers a ton of book recommendations that have never been mentioned on the podcast before.
This is a seriously inspiring episode, so I’m very excited for you to listen. Be sure to check out Alexis’s blog East of Billings and follow her on social media. I have links to everything in the episode notes below. Enjoy!
Photos courtesy of Alexis Bonogofsky
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- East of Billings
- Alexis on Instagram
- Exxon oil spill in the Yellowstone
- Vanessa Braided Hair
- Wally McRae
- Gonzaga University
- University of Denver
- Albert Hirschman – Opinionated Opinions and Democracy
- The Public and Its Problems by John Dewey
- Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
- Seeing Like a State by James Scott
- Wendell Berry
- Tribe by Sebastian Junger
- When the Ground Thaws by Alexis Bonogofsky
- On Common Ground public lands video
- Modern Huntsman
- Artemis Sportswomen
- The Mountain and the Fathers by Joe Wilkins
- West of 98 by Lynn Stegner
- Montana: An Uncommon Land by Ross Toole
- Three Day Road by Joseph Boyden
- Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
Sara Dant – A Deep Dive Into the History of the West
Sara Dant is a historian, professor, and chair of the history department at Weber State University. She’s also the author of one of my new favorite books: Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. Sara’s work touches many of the topics we discuss regularly on this podcast, including conservation, water, public lands, building consensus around divisive issues, historical figures of the West, and much more. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Sara has a unique ability to explain complex and potentially dry topics regarding the American West in an engaging and easy-to-understand manner.
Whether you’re like me and have read dozens of books on the history of the West or simply have a general interest the subject, I think Losing Eden should be mandatory reading. It lays out the history of the region, starting with human migration into North America 15-30,000 years ago and ends in the present-day West with our scramble to find solutions to natural resource shortages and climate change. For me, the book connected many different time periods and concepts into one cohesive narrative, while simultaneously introducing me to new ideas and people, all in just under 200 pages.
Sara and I had a great conversation covering key concepts from her book, as well as her life as a historian, teacher, and life-long Westerner. We chat about the concept of the “tragedy of the commons,” conservation versus preservation, and the myth that the West was a sort of Garden of Eden prior to European settlement. We also dig into some of the key historical figures of the West, including Brigham Young, John Wesley Powell, Theodore Roosevelt, and John Muir. Most of you know that I’m weirdly obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt—I’ve got a life-sized cardboard cut-out of him in my office, for Pete’s sake!—so Sara gently offers a more “balanced” examination of his conservation legacy. We also discuss Sara’s upbringing in Arizona, love of trail running, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, because there’s a lot.
And since many of you are members of the Mountain & Prairie Book Club, I wanted to let you know that Losing Eden will be the November/December selection. Sara has graciously offered to answer questions about the book or even participate in some sort of online discussion, so I’ll be sorting out those details in the coming weeks. In the meantime, start reading the book and visit the book club webpage for more information as it becomes available.
For now, please enjoy this fun and educational conversation with Sara Dant.
Photos courtesy of Sara Dant
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Dr. Sara Dant
- Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant
- Sara at the Aspen Institute: Discussion 1 & Discussion 2
- Oranges by John McPhee
- Tragedy of the commons
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
- Wallace Stegner
- John Wesley Powell
- 100th Meridian
- Theodore Roosevelt
- John Muir
- Hampton Sides podcast
- Dan Flores podcast
- Changes in the Land by William Cronon
- Wallace Stegner Quote that Sara mentioned: From “Variation on a Theme by Crevecoeur”
- Where the Bluebird Sings to the Lemonade Springs by Wallace Stegner
- Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner
- Blade Runner
- Avatar
- Grand Staircase Escalante
- Hal Rothman
Book Club Selection: “Losing Eden” by Sara Dant
November-December Book Club Selection: “Losing Eden” by Sara Dant
This summer, I had the pleasure of meeting historian Sara Dant at an American West conference at the Aspen Institute. During her presentations, I was struck by her remarkable ability to present complex and sometimes dry topics regarding the American West in an engaging and easy-to-understand manner. (You can watch two of her presentations here and here.) It’s clear that Sara is a gifted professor who has perfected her ability to make history equally fun and educational.
As soon as I returned home, I ordered her book Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. Once I started reading, I couldn’t put it down. In just under 200 pages, Sara lays out the history of the West, starting with human migration into North America 15-30,000 years ago and ending with our present day scramble to find solutions to natural resource shortages and climate change. There’s also ample coverage of historical figures including Teddy Roosevelt, John Muir, Aldo Leopold, Frank Church, and more. For me, the book connected many different familiar time periods and concepts into one cohesive narrative, while simultaneously introducing me to new ideas and people, all while keeping me thoroughly entertained.
If you love the podcast, you’ll love this book, as it covers so many of the topics we regularly discuss, including conservation, water, public lands, building consensus around divisive issues, historical figures of the West, and much more. So as you’ve probably gathered by now, the November-December Book Club Selection is:
Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant
Sara has graciously offered to answer questions about the book or even participate in some sort of online discussion, so we’ll be sorting out those details in the coming weeks. In the meantime, listen to my conversation with Sara, start reading the book, and check back to this page or the Goodreads group for more information as it becomes available.
If you’d like to participate:
- Grab a copy of Losing Eden—purchase it from Amazon or your local bookseller, or check it out from your local library. Start reading.
- Head over to our Goodreads Group. Create an account, then join in the conversation in the online discussion forum. As you read, give your feedback on the book, pose questions to the group, and share your thoughts as you plow through the adventure.
- The only way this works is with lots of participation from lots of people, so the more the better. DON’T BE SHY!
Mountain & Prairie Book Club – Goodreads Group
Hampton Sides, Part 2 – How to Tell a Damn Good Story
Hampton Sides, Part 2 – How to Tell a Damn Good Story
Anyone who has listened to this podcast surely knows of best-selling author and narrative historian Hampton Sides. I reference his books often and was lucky enough to interview him in August at the Aspen Institute, which I released as a podcast episode. In that conversation, we discussed the history of the 19th-Century American West, and many of you kindly reached out to let me know how much you enjoyed learning from Hampton. So I was thrilled—and I think you will be too—when Hampton generously stopped through Colorado Springs last week in the midst of a busy tour for his amazing new book, On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle.
As you’d expect, we had a fun conversation that expanded upon our first interview—we dig into his childhood in Memphis, Tennessee, and discuss his life-long desire to be a writer. We talk about his early years in journalism, and how his experiences writing and editing have contributed to his success as an author. We also chat about his years at “Outside”magazine and some of the realities of being a freelance journalist and author. Additionally, he shares some of the ins and outs of his writing process, including the struggle of cranking out a first draft, a process he describes as spending time in the “pain cave.” We also discuss the Grand Canyon, Wallace Stegner’s writing, and much more.
Finally, we spend some time talking about On Desperate Ground, which I can’t recommend enough. I knew next to nothing about the Korean War, but as usual, Hampton’s writing was simultaneously educational and entertaining, allowing me to learn a lot while thoroughly enjoying the process. You don’t have to be a military history buff to enjoy this book—his exploration of characters’ personalities, motivations, and egos makes for an engaging story that will appeal to anyone who is fascinated by interesting people. And being a weird guy who loves climbing big, absurdly cold mountains, I especially enjoyed our discussion of North Korea’s brutal winters and how sub-zero temperatures were one of the deadliest forces in this battle.
Thanks again to Hampton for making time to meet up during such a busy book tour. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to all the authors and books we discuss, as we cover a lot. This was a fun conversation, and I know you’ll enjoy it.
Header photo by SERGEY GORSHKOV, headshot by KURT MARKUS.
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Hampton Sides
- Hampton’s Facebook page
- On Desperate Ground by Hampton Sides
- Washington Post review of On Desperate Ground
- All of Hampton’s Books
- David Grann
- Candice Millard
- Laura Hillenbrand
- Nathaniel Philbrick
- David McCullough
- Shelby Foote
- Steven King
- John Grisham
- Outside
- Tim Cahill
- David Quammen
- Jon Krakauer
- Sebastian Junger
- Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides
- Draft No. 4 by John McPhee
- General Douglas MacArthur
- Mao Zedong
- Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
- Wallace Stegner books
- All the King’s Men by Robert Warren Penn
- Ken Burns – The Civil War
- Ken Burns – The Roosevelts
- The Grand Canyon by Pete McBride (foreword by Hampton)
Erik Petersen – Stories of Public Lands & the People Who Love Them
Erik Petersen is a Montana-based photographer, filmmaker, and photojournalist whose work showcases the American West and the many ways we enjoy our wide open spaces. His most recent film, A Few Steps Further, explores the commonalities between backcountry hunting and mountain endurance sports, while highlighting the spectacular wild landscapes that make these activities possible. Historically, hunters and adventure sports enthusiasts have not always seen eye to eye, but through his film, Erik demonstrates that the two groups have much more in common than not, most notably a love for public lands, pushing one’s physical limits, and hardcore adventure.
Growing up in Minnesota, Erik was an avid hunter and outdoorsman– but with a lifelong love for Montana, he moved West the day that he graduated from college. He worked for over ten years as a newspaper photographer throughout Montana, honing his craft and learning to produce high-quality work under the pressure and deadlines of traditional print media. Eventually Erik transitioned into freelance photography, taking some initial assignments that included trips to war-torn Afghanistan and the surrounding region. Today, much of his work centers around the landscapes of the American West, and his photographs and films highlight many of the values that we celebrate time and again on this podcast—conservation, public lands, adventure sports, and interesting people who love the West.
Erik and I caught up on the day that A Few Steps Further was released to the public, so I’ve embedded it in the episode notes—be sure to check it out, you’ll love it. In addition to that film, we talk about some of his other creative work, including a film he’s currently making that explores the threat of a goldmine near Yellowstone National Park and the promising bipartisan coalition that has emerged to fight the threat. We also cover the lessons he learned from his years in photojournalism, and how he manages to balance his roles as a husband and father of two boys while running his own creative business and pursuing adventure sports such as hunting and ultra running. We also discuss his creative mentors and heroes and his favorite books and films, plus he gives some good advice on how to take better landscape photos.
Visit the episode notes for links to everything, and enjoy this fun conversation with Erik Petersen.
A Few Steps Further from Erik Petersen on Vimeo.
All photos courtesy of Erik Petersen.
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Erik Petersen
- Erik on Instagram
- Erik on Vimeo
- A Few Steps Further
- Hardrock 100
- Jim Howell podcast
- Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher by Timothy Egan
- Patagonia media grant
- Gianforte body slamming reporter
- Jim Harrison
- The Road Home by Jim Harrison
- Legends of the Fall by Jim Harrison
- The House of Sky by Ivan Doig
- Sarah Calhoun podcast
- Red Gold
- Ben Knight
- Camp 4 Collective
- Harry Potter books
- Crazy Mountains
Bonus (or is it a penalty?) Episode – Ed in the Hot Seat
Normally on the podcast, I introduce you to innovative individuals who are shaping the future of the American West—ranchers, writers, athletes, authors, adventurers, conservationists, entrepreneurs… pretty much anyone who’s interesting and doing important work here in the West.
But this episode is a little different. This time the tables are turned, and I’m in the hot seat, being interviewed on the local Colorado Springs podcast, The Little London Show.
A few months back, Little London Show hosts Jeff and Darcie asked me to join them to chat about my new role as Conservation Director at Palmer Land Trust, my family’s move from Boulder to Colorado Springs, and some of the lessons I’ve learned from hosting the Mountain & Prairie Podcast. I thought it was a fun conversation, and we discussed a variety of interesting topics, including public lands, Theodore Roosevelt (of course), favorite books, my journey from selling ranches to full-time conservation, and much more.
And just to be clear, I don’t think I’m an Innovator of the American West, nor do I enjoy listening to my own voice, but we covered some topics that I thought might be of interest to you guys. As usual, there are links to everything we discuss in the episode notes, so see below to access all of those resources. And if you have a few moments, let me know if you enjoy this format of me answering a few questions. If you do, then every so often I’ll plan on releasing episodes from other podcasts where I am the interviewee or possibly answering questions from you guys, if that would be of interest.
But no matter what, we’ll be back to the normal interviews with real innovators next week, so be on the lookout for that. Again, thanks for your support and thank you for listening.
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- The Little London Show
- Palmer Land Trust
- Best Farming Book List
- Book Club
- Reading Recommendations
- David Gessner interview
- Joe Grant interview
- Bundyville podcast
- Modern Huntsman article
- TR Trilogy by Edmund Morris
- The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
- Your Stoke Won’t Save Us article
- The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris
- Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
- The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko
Juanita Vero – A Deep Love of Place
[Fall 2020 Update: To listen to Juanita’s most recent Mountain & Prairie podcast appearance in which she discusses her campaign for Missoula County Commissioner, please visit this webpage. Thanks!]
Juanita Vero is a partner at the E Bar L Ranch, a family-owned dude ranch located on the Blackfoot River, about an hour east of Missoula, Montana. The ranch was purchased and founded by Juanita’s great-grandfather and has served as a Rocky Mountain retreat for families from around the world for almost 100 years. If you’ve never visited but would like to learn more about the ranch, this conversation with Juanita is one of your only options—they don’t have a website, nor do they advertise. They serve the same clients year after year, clients who value an authentic, rustic, and tight-knit dude-ranching experience that is closely connected to the land.
But the term “dude ranch” doesn’t really do the E Bar L justice. Juanita’s family has participated in some cutting-edge conservation projects, protecting their ranch with a unique conservation easement that also allows for responsible timber management. Becoming a member of the ranch’s summer staff is also an amazing experience, and it’s not uncommon for staff members to develop such a deep love of the land that they go on to careers in ranching or conservation. Juanita and her family lead by example with their business management and land stewardship practices, which seem to rub off on everyone who visits or works at the ranch.
Juanita and I connected just as she was wrapping up another successful summer season on the ranch. We had a fun conversation that covered everything from her great-grandfather’s purchase of the ranch in the early 1900s all the way up to its current day operations. We talk in detail about Juanita’s commitment to community service, and we dig into some of her work with groups such as Trout Unlimited, Montana Conservation Voters, and the Blackfoot Challenge. We also discuss her youth on the ranch, and what she learned from leaving Montana in her teens to attend an east coast boarding school. We talk about toughness, the interesting story of how her parents met, and her blind date with her now husband, which happened to be a three-day elk hunt. And as usual, we cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and more.
This was a great conversation, so I know you’ll enjoy it. Thanks again for listening.
Header photo by Kirstie Lambert, other by Juanita Vero
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Missoula, Montana
- Taft School
- The Nature Conservancy
- Montana Conservation Voters
- Big Blackfoot Trout Unlimited
- Swan Valley Connections
- Blackfoot Community Project
- Blackfoot Challenge
- Community Food and Agriculture Coalition
- A Thousand Acres by Jane Smiley
- Breaking Clean by Judy Blunt
- Deer Hunting with Jesus by Joe Begeant
- Germs, Guns and Steel by Jared Diamond
- Collapse by Jared Diamond
- The Emperor of all Maladies by Siddhartha Mukherjee
- The Four Agreementsby Don Migel Ruiz
- Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
Become a Podcast Supporter!
When I started the podcast, I had no expectations that any significant number of people would ever tune in. Fast forward to today, there are thousands of people like you who not only listen, but tell their friends, share on social media, leave amazing iTunes reviews, and reach out to me directly with kind words. I can’t thank you enough for the encouragement—it’s been unbelievably fulfilling and fun to connect with so many like-minded folks from around the world who love the American West.
Much to my surprise, people have begun to ask how they can support the podcast financially. I’ve set up two options: Patreon (a monthly subscription) and PayPal (a one-time payment). If the podcast brings you as much enjoyment and value as say, a latte or burrito, I’d greatly appreciate your financial support. Click over to Patreon to see the Theodore Roosevelt-themed giving tiers and associated supporter-only benefits. All supporters will have their names listed proudly on the Wall of Badasses below, right alongside my personal gurus (i.e. badasses emeritus), and the rewards only get cooler from there.
Seriously, thank you for your support, financial and otherwise. I wouldn’t be able to do this work without your interest and encouragement.
Click Below to Support Mountain & Prairie
Geoffrey Keating – Built to Last
Geoffrey Keating is a Colorado-based woodworker whose dedication to exquisite craftsmanship and creative design have made him one of today’s most sought-after furniture makers. But creating furniture is just a small part of his interesting life story—Geoffrey has also worked as a mechanic on a professional motocross team and holds two graduate degrees in theology, one from Yale and one from Notre Dame. He discovered his talent for woodworking about ten years ago while still in graduate school, and soon decided to go all in on building a career as a professional craftsman.
Geoffrey has a unique ability to understand and respect the past, while maintaining a commitment to a sustainable future. He uses reclaimed or responsibly sourced wood to create his furniture, and all of his work is built to last—he expects each piece to be passed on from one generation to the next. His workshop and home are in a beautiful 1897 building that was formerly a grocery store—he and his wife have fully repurposed the historical space to be their growing family’s base of operations. And as you’ll hear, Geoffrey’s study of history and theology plays a huge role in his design ethic and commitment to sustainability.
We met up at Geoffrey’s shop which is located just a block north of Colorado College in Colorado Springs. As you’d expect from someone with Geoffrey’s interesting background, we had a fun and wide-ranging conversation. We discuss his family’s history as craftsmen, and how he is the fifth generation to make a living working with wood. We talk about his transition from academia to woodworking, and how he managed to get his business off the ground in the early days. We chat about his commitment to quality, and how he balances his artistic goal of perfection with the economic realities of running a business. And we touch on his daily routines and techniques he uses to avoid the creative blocks that arise from time to time. As usual, we also cover his favorite books, most powerful outdoor experience, and more. Enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Geoffrey Keating
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
3:15 – Geoffrey describes his furniture
4:55 – Family history of woodworking
5:45 – Racing motorcycles and working as mechanic
6:45 – Teaching and theology
8:45 – Transition from theology to woodworking
11:15 – Starting the business
14:15 – The formation of Geoffrey’s style
14:50 – Dealing with the quest for perfection
18:15 – The business of woodworking
19:55 – History of his workshop
20:55 – Living in the West
22:15 – Life in Colorado Springs
23:55 – Commitment to sustainability
26:10 – Types of wood
27:00 – Mentors and books
29:45 – Dealing with distraction
32:35 – Goal versus process
33:45 – Dealing with creative block
35:25 – Life lessons from woodworking
36:55 – Talent versus work ethic
38:25 – Advice for woodworkers
42:25 – Favorite books
45:15 – Favorite films
46:45 – Hobbies
47:15 – Most powerful outdoor experience
50:15 – Favorite location
50:55 – Best advice ever received?
52:10 – Request of the listeners
53:05 – Connect with Geoffrey online
- Keating Woodworks
- Keating Woodworks on Instagramand Facebook
- Tom Morgan Rodsmiths podcast
- Yvon Chouinard
- Sam Maloof
- Riverside Art Museum
- The Poetics of Space by Gaston Bachelard
- Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown
- Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne
- Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
- Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky
- First Position
- Cuchara, Colorado
- Sangre de Cristo Mountains
Book Club Selection: “The Emerald Mile” by Kevin Fedarko
September-October Book Club Selection: “The Emerald Mile” by Kevin Fedarko
At the end of each podcast episode, I ask the guest to name his or her favorite book about the American West. The books mentioned have been as varied as the guests’ careers and backgrounds—non-fiction and fiction, biography and philosophy, academic texts and poetry. But one specific title continues to pop up time and again. This book touches on many important aspects of the West—its history, settlement by Europeans, and the all-important issue of water resources.
But unlike many dry texts about western history and water issues, this story is built around an epic, real-life adventure through the depths of the Grand Canyon. It’s one of those books that is so well written and action packed, you’ll have a hard time putting it down. But when you’re finished, you’ll realize that you learned an unbelievable amount about could-be boring subjects such as the Bureau of Reclamation, water rights, hydrology, and the government’s role in regulating water supplies. It’s almost as if the author figured out a way to trick his readers into understanding and caring about the plight of the Colorado River.
If you’re a regular podcast listener, you know exactly what book I’m talking about. The September-October book club selection is:
The Emerald Mile: The Epic Story of the Fastest Ride in History Through the Heart of the Grand Canyon by Kevin Fedarko
Everyone I know who has read this book has loved it, no exceptions. In my recent podcast episode with Pete McBride, he named The Emerald Mile as one of two books that are mandatory for those wanting to understand water in the West (and Pete knows a thing or two about the Colorado River). But even if you care nothing about water or the history of the West, it’s still a damn good read—wild adventure, crazy characters, all in an extreme, unforgiving landscape. This is a perfect book for Mountain & Prairie Podcast listeners.
I’ll be excited to hear your thoughts on the book and the issues it raises about us humans’ impact on the American West, as well as solutions for moving forward in a responsible, sustainable manner.
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Grab a copy of The Emerald Mile—purchase it from Amazon or your local bookseller, or check it out from your local library. Start reading.
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Head over to our Goodreads Group. Create an account, then join in the conversation in the online discussion forum. As you read, give your feedback on the book, pose questions to the group, and share your thoughts as you plow through the adventure.
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The only way this works is with lots of participation from lots of people, so the more the better. DON’T BE SHY!
Mountain & Prairie Book Club – Goodreads Group
Hampton Sides – Live at the Aspen Institute
Hampton Sides: Live at the Aspen Institute
Hampton Sides is a narrative historian, best-selling author, and editor-at-large for Outside magazine. Mountain & Prairie listeners probably know Hampton best from his book Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West, but the reality is that Blood and Thunder represents only a fraction of his work. Hellhound on His Trail, In the Kingdom of Ice, and Ghost Soldiers are a few of his other notable books, not to mention countless articles for Outside, National Geographic, and other well-known magazines. Hampton is originally from Memphis, Tennessee, but now splits his time between Santa Fe, New Mexico and Colorado Springs, where he’s the Journalist in Residence at Colorado College.
This podcast is a live recording of a conversation that Hampton and I had in front of an audience at the Aspen Institute in Aspen, Colorado. This public event was part of a four-day seminar about the history of the 19th Century American West, which was hosted by the Aspen Institute’s Society of Fellows. Since the overall theme of the week was the West, Hampton and I focused our conversation on Blood and Thunder, and chatted about the many topics presented in the book: the Navajos, the life of Kit Carson, Carson’s obsession with loyalty, Manifest Destiny, historical misconceptions about the time period, Hampton’s process for researching the book, and more. There are also a few minutes of Q&A from the audience toward the end of our talk. The Aspen Institute also filmed the event, so if you’d rather watch the interview, check out the video below.
Having the opportunity to speak with one of my all-time favorite authors at such an exceptional, world-renowned institution was a real dream come true. Endless thanks to the Aspen Institute for inviting me, and the same to Hampton for being so engaging, funny, knowledgeable, and down to earth. You’re going to learn a lot from this episode, so I hope you enjoy listening… or watching! And if you haven’t already, you should order and read Hampton’s books as soon as possible—you won’t be disappointed.
All photos and video courtesy of the Aspen Institute
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Hampton Sides
- The Aspen Institute
- Society of Fellows
- American West Public Lecture page
- The American West: The History, the Values, the Struggle, and the Legacy of the 19th Century
- VIDEO of interview
- Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
- All Hampton Sides books
- Kit Carson
- Navajo
- John C Fremont
- James Henry Carleton
- Down the Santa Fe Trail by Susan Magoffin
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
- Cormac McCarthy
- Blood Meridian by Corman McCarthy
- Shelby Foote
Pete McBride – A Passion for Water & Wild Places
Pete McBride is a National Geographic photographer, filmmaker, and writer who tells untold stories from some of the world’s wildest places. Most recently, Pete and his friend, author Kevin Fedarko, hiked the entire 800-mile length of the Grand Canyon, documenting the journey for his forthcoming book The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim. The book is an amazing combination of breathtaking photography, adventure travelogue, and an examination of some of the conservation challenges facing the legendary national park. Given the fact that more people have stood on the moon than hiked the length of the Grand Canyon, it’s no surprise that this book is a must-read.
Growing up in Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley, Pete spent his childhood skiing, playing hockey, and working on his family’s ranch. After college on the east coast, he cut his teeth in journalism at the High Country News, where he discovered his proclivity for photography. From there, he set out on a series of adventures, camera in hand, and with a lot of hard work and hustle, he eventually sold his first story toNational Geographic. After traveling the world as a photojournalist and having some close calls in Somalia and on Mt. Everest, Pete decided to focus his efforts on his “backyard river”—the Colorado River. Pete seems to have found his true calling in this iconic waterway—he has combined his artistic eye, journalistic perspective, and pursuit of adventure to become one of the Colorado River’s greatest advocates.
Pete and I met up in Aspen just before he headed to the airport to catch a flight. Even though our time was limited, we managed to cover a wide range of fun topics. We dig into the details of his Grand Canyon hike, and Pete tells a scary story of coming way too close to death early in the trip. We talk about his relationship with Kevin Fedarko, and how their differing personalities complement each other well on hardcore adventures. Pete shares more about his career as a photographer, and how he sees his strong work ethic as the key to his success. Pete also gives a great overview of the challenges facing the Colorado River, and he offers some solid book recommendations for folks who want to learn more about water issues in the West.
Hopefully I’ll get Pete back on for a Part 2 at some point in the future, because as you’ll hear, there’s still plenty more to discuss. For now, I really appreciate him taking the time to chat during such a busy time and hope you all enjoy the interview.
All photos courtesy of Pete McBride
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
Stephen Smith, Part 2 – Evolution & Reinvention
Those of you who have been listening to the podcast since the early days probably remember my first conversation with Stephen Smith. We talked for an hour and a half about his career as a professional photographer, his motorcycle adventures around South America, his time working on farms and ranches, surfing, and more. Since that conversation almost exactly two years ago, Stephen has continued to evolve as an adventurer, entrepreneur, and artist. He bought a 170-acre property in eastern Oregon, founded a plant medicine CBD company, and has continued his work as a professional freelance photographer. With all these exciting developments, I thought it was time to have him back on the podcast for round two.
Stephen has a big vision for his new endeavors, and, more importantly, he has the work ethic and risk tolerance to achieve his goals. We talk a lot about his new property, which he’s calling Crow Creek, and how he has gone about transforming a raw piece of ground into his full-time home. We also chat in detail about his CBD company ONDA Wellness, which provides all-natural plant-based relief for everything from muscle soreness to anxiety to insomnia. If you are someone who is thinking of starting your own business, or simply has an interest in outside-the-box entrepreneurship, you will learn a lot from Stephen’s story.
As you’ll hear in our conversation, Stephen is amazingly open and honest about the challenges he has encountered while pursuing these new ventures, physically, mentally, and financially. He pulls no punches when describing the difficulty of simultaneously homesteading a property, running a start-up, and freelancing, but you’ll notice that his tone remains focused and optimistic, while still being realistic. Yes, the Instagram posts of Crow Creek and Stephen’s travels around the West are stunning, but make no mistake, he’s grinding at a breakneck speed to make it all work. His journey is inspiring and real, so I know you’ll enjoy listening.
And as an added bonus, Stephen is offering a 15% discount on ONDA Wellness products to Mountain & Prairie listeners. Just use the code “ED15″ at checkout, and the discount will be applied. I can’t speak highly enough about ONDA, so I encourage you to give it a try.
Thanks to Stephen for coming back on the podcast. Hope you enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Stephen Smith
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Stephen Smith website
- Stephen on Instagram – @iamstephensmith
- First Stephen Smith podcast
- Crow Creek
- ONDA Wellness – Website & Instagram
- ONDA promo code: “ED15”
- Jack Rabbit Hill Farm
- Where the Water Goes by David Owen
- Joseph, Oregon
- Chris Eyer podcast
- David Mahaffey
- Cate Havstad podcast
- East of Eden by John Steinbeck
- I Will Fight No More Forever by Merrill Beal
- Wormwood
- Man in the Arena
Upcoming Event! Hampton Sides at the Aspen Institute
Upcoming Event! Hampton Sides at the Aspen Institute
I’m thrilled to announce that I’ll be interviewing Hampton Sides on stage at the Aspen Institute on Wednesday, August 15th. We’ll be discussing his amazing book Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West, as well as a whole host of topics related to the 19th Century American West. It’s going to be an engaging conversation at a world-renowned venue, so I hope to see you there!
Below is the full program description– click the title to visit the Aspen Institute’s event webpage.
American West Public Lecture: Kit Carson and the 19th Century American West: A Legendary Journey of Exploration
Featuring Hampton Sides, Editor-At-Large of Outside Magazine and best-selling author, in conversation with Ed Roberson, Conservation Director of Palmer Land Trust and host of the Mountain & Prairie podcast. Hampton Sides will share his insights into the life of legendary Kit Carson, a 19th century trapper, military man, and pioneer. Enveloped in mythology, Carson’s story is a wonderful example of the conflict of culture and values that so defines 19th Century American West today.
Fee: $25. Tickets on sale Friday, August 3 at www.aspenshowtix.com.
Parking is very limited. Please carpool, walk, ride RFTA, or ride a We-Cycle bike. Information: www.we-cycle.org or www.rfta.com, or download the Transit app.
Rebecca Jewett – Big Ideas for the New West
Rebecca Jewett is the executive director of Palmer Land Trust, a conservation organization committed to protecting southern Colorado’s recreational open space, working agricultural land, and stunning scenic vistas. Under Rebecca’s leadership, Palmer has moved away from traditional, decades-old land conservation methods and into a more proactive model, pursuing audacious and outside-the-box conservation strategies across a variety of landscapes. By focusing on community above all else, Palmer is finding win-win scenarios that benefit all of southern Colorado’s numerous stakeholders, from ranchers and farmers to mountain bikers and climbers, and from cities and municipalities to counties and rural areas.
Rebecca is a fifth-generation Coloradan who grew up deeply immersed in the outdoors, which instilled a passion for open space that has guided her career trajectory. After ten years in public lands-related work, she made the shift into private land conservation when she took the helm of Palmer. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Rebecca has big plans for tackling some of Colorado’s most pressing conservation issues, issues that threaten the West from ecological, economic, and community perspectives. Her enthusiasm for her work is contagious, and her ability to communicate complex issues in an engaging way is second-to-none.
Folks who follow me on social media may already know, but I was so impressed with Rebecca and the rest of the Palmer team that I recently left the ranch brokerage business and joined the organization as a full-time employee. The opportunity to apply my professional expertise in real estate and finance to some of the West’s most challenging problems was too great of an opportunity to pass up—so I’m officially a full-time Palmer staff member, Rebecca is my boss, and I couldn’t be more excited about the work ahead.
I know you’ll enjoy this conversation, because Rebecca and I cover a wide range of topics that should be of interest for anyone who loves the West. We discuss the importance of water, agriculture, open space, and recreation, and how conservation can bring together stakeholders from all of those factions. We talk about the Arkansas River basin where Palmer focuses its efforts, and how it encompasses every Colorado landscape, from 14,000-foot mountains to flat, open grasslands. Rebecca elaborates on her leadership style, and also talks about her experience being a female leader in a once male-dominated industry. She also explains some specific projects that Palmer is taking on, and how the entire Colorado land trust community collaborates toward common goals. As usual, we also cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and much more.
If you haven’t already, give Rebecca and Palmer Land Trust a follow on social media, and be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss. Enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Rebecca Jewett
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
Ed on “The Little London Show”
Last week, Jeff and Darcie over at Colorado Springs’ local podcast, The Little London Show, graciously asked me to stop by for a chat. We had a fun conversation and covered wide range of subjects—conservation, my new gig with Palmer Land Trust, Theodore Roosevelt, public lands, the Springs vs. Boulder, books, the ridiculousness of ultra running, my podcast, and much more.
I have no idea if I made a lick of sense—most likely not—but if you’re interested, you can listen below.
The Little London Show: Episode 141 – Ed Roberson
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Book Club Selection: “Blood and Thunder” by Hampton Sides
July-August Book Club Selection: “Blood and Thunder” by Hampton Sides
If you’ve been following the blog and podcast for a while, you know that I read tons of books about the American West—everything from the detailed history of barbed wire to biographies of Stegner and Abbey to ecological examinations of the West’s large mammals.
But if I could only recommend one book, the choice would be easy. This book combines dense, specific history of the white man’s settling of the West, structured around the biography of one of our country’s most heroic-notorious-paradoxical characters. It sheds light on the horrific mistreatment of Native Americans, while explaining the “Manifest Destiny” thinking that led to those atrocities. And it presents all of this information in an amazingly entertaining and exciting narrative that is truly fun to read.
The July-August Book Club Selection is:
Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West by Hampton Sides
Blood and Thunder is in my top five favorite books of all time, and—no exaggeration—everyone I know who’s read it has loved it. Reading the book gave me a base level of knowledge about the West that has served me well both professionally and personally. This is also one of those books that introduces you to countless characters and concepts that will warrant further reading and study—it’s a gateway drug into deep Western history.
If you’re like me, you’ll be disgusted by the government’s treatment of Native Americans, and likely perplexed by Kit Carson’s role in the “taming of the West” and the seemingly hypocritical nature of some of his actions. Was he really the Western superhero character that pop culture portrays him as? I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts on that.
Hampton Sides is a world-class writer who has honed his gift for telling complex stories in easy-to-read, engaging prose. I’ve read most of his books and much of his shorter-form writing for Outside magazine and the like—his subjects span a broad range but his writing is consistently top-notch. But of all he has written, there’s something special about Blood and Thunder that has stuck with me for years and years, so I trust that you’ll glean lots of value from it, as well.
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Grab a copy of Blood and Thunder—purchase it from Amazon or your local bookseller, or check it out from your local library. Start reading.
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Head over to our Goodreads Group. Create an account, then join in the conversation in the online discussion forum. As you read, give your feedback on the book, pose questions to the group, and share your thoughts as you plow through the epic. I’m especially interested in your thoughts on Kit Carson—is he the hero that history has made him out to be? I have my own thoughts that I’ll share.
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The only way this works is with lots of participation from lots of people, so the more the better. DON’T BE SHY!
Mountain & Prairie Book Club – Goodreads Group
Sarah Wentzel-Fisher – Conservation in the Radical Center
Sarah Wentzel-Fisher is the Executive Director of the Quivira Coalition, an innovative conservation organization devoted to building soil, biodiversity, and resilience on western working landscapes. Quivira was founded over twenty years ago by two conservationists and a rancher, all three of whom were exhausted by the divisive nature of the relationships between the agricultural and environmental communities. By putting their few differences aside and focusing on their many shared values, Quivira has led many of the West’s stakeholders toward collaborative, long-term solutions that improve western landscapes both ecologically and socially.
Sarah grew up in a small town in the Black Hills of South Dakota and learned the true value of community at an early age. As she grew older, she began to hone in on her interest in food—specifically how food and food production play such a huge role in the health and resilience of local communities. Her graduate work focused on the role of small-scale agriculture in New Mexico, and for six years she was the editor ofEdible Santa Fe, a New Mexico-based magazine that covers the region’s local food scene. Her background made her a perfect fit for Quivira’s mission, and her creative mindset and understanding of agriculture have allowed her to successfully lead the organization into its next phase.
I had the pleasure of meeting Sarah here in Colorado Springs as she was on the tail end of a massive road trip through the West visiting with farmers, ranchers, and land managers. We had a fun conversation and touched on so many of the subjects that are of interest to me and to the podcast listeners. We chatted about the specifics of regenerative agriculture, and some of the misconceptions among well-meaning environmentalists around grazing as an effective method to fight climate change. Speaking of climate change, we talked about why Quivira does not hesitate to discuss climate change, even though that term can be a hot button issue among certain groups. We discussed the idea of rugged individualism, Quivira’s concept of the “Radical Center,” and the organization’s agricultural mentor program. She offered some advice for aspiring conservationists, and talked about how her creativity has served her well as a leader. And as usual, we covered books, films, favorite places in the West and more.
I encourage you to visit Quivira’s website and also to check out their podcast—it’s called Down To Earth: The Planet to Plate Podcast. If you’re a fan of this podcast, odds are you’ll enjoy that one, as well. You’ll probably like it better actually. Check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, and enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Sarah Wentzel-Fisher
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
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The Third Plateby Dan Barber
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Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
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Where Our Food Comes From by Gary Habhan
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Angle of Reposeby Wallace Stegner
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The Painter by Peter Heller
David Gessner – Voice of the West’s Past and Present
David Gessner is an author, a professor, and one of the leading contemporary voices on the natural world and the American West. He has written ten books, including All the Wild That Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West, which is one of my all-time favorites and was a former Mountain & Prairie Book Club selection. Thanks to his influences ranging from Henry David Thoreau to Theodore Roosevelt to Wendell Berry, David preaches the gospel of appreciating “place” and protecting our wild landscapes, public lands, and fragile Western ecosystem.
I’ve been a huge fan of David’s work for many years, and have read almost everything he has written. I cannot overstate how much his writing has helped me understand both the history and the modern-day challenges of the American West, as well as the individuals who have shaped the region. Through his masterful prose, he combines history, current events, deep personal insights, and a hilarious sense of humor into amazingly impactful books. Without his writing, my interest in land conservation would be a fraction of what it is today.
David was in Colorado conducting research for a new book focused on public lands, Bears Ears, and Theodore Roosevelt, so we met up in Boulder for our conversation. In a little over an hour, we managed to cover a wide range of topics including public lands, Stegner, Abbey, TR, the idea of “Boomers and Stickers,” and the importance of place. David described how a bout with cancer helped to change his writing style and interests, and how moving to Boulder in his thirties altered the trajectory of his life and career. We discussed his writing process, his coastal writing shack, and how his approach to writing has evolved over the years. As usual, we also touched on favorite books, films, and his most powerful outdoor experience.
Meeting David and having this conversation was a dream come true for me, so many thanks to him for taking the time to chat. There are a lot of resources and other priceless information in this episode, so be sure to check the notes for links to everything. Enjoy!
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
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The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris
- Theodore Roosevelt: A Strenuous Life by Kathleen Dalton
- Henry David Thoreau
- Theodore Roosevelt
- Wendell Berry
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Life Work by Donald Hall
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Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner
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Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
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Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey
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Crossing to Safety by Wallace Stegner
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How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan
Modern Huntsman Book Review – The TR Trilogy
Modern Huntsman Book Review: Theodore Roosevelt Trilogy
Excerpt: “While reading the full trilogy is an accomplishment on its own, it is really just a starting point for a deep understanding of TR, public lands, conservation, and the time period. Curious readers will find dozens of people, places, and concepts that warrant further study, and their reading list will expand wildly with each completed chapter. If the trilogy is the trunk of a great oak tree, there are countless fascinating branches to explore further.”
Have you subscribed to Modern Huntsman yet? If not, you must do so immediately! 200+ pages of impactful prose, stunning photography, and important ideas. Sign up for the biannual publication on their website and help restore the image of hunting.
Header photo by Tyler Sharp
Daniel Vergés – The Pursuit of Simplicity in Art & Life
Daniel Vergés is an artist and graphic designer who captures the essence of life in the American West through simple yet amazingly impactful paintings and drawings. Like many of my podcast guests, Daniel grew up obsessed with all things western—but unlike previous guests, Daniel grew up and currently lives in Spain, where he works and creates western-focused art in his rural studio. His life-long love of the West was solidified during the time he spent living and working on the Zapata Ranch, a 103,000-acre cattle and bison ranch located in Colorado’s San Luis Valley.
Despite living so far from the American West now, Daniel’s deep love of and respect for the landscape, people, and history would make you think he’s been here his entire life. Sometimes those of us who live in the West can lose perspective on just what a spectacular place it is, so I enjoyed learning more about Daniel’s perspective as someone who does not physically live here yet is heavily influenced by the West’s landscapes and culture on a daily basis. If you ever find yourself getting jaded about life in the West, just listen to the way he describes mountains, prairies, ranches, and bison, then take a look at his art, and you’ll snap right out of it!
Daniel and I had a wonderful conversation that covered everything from life on the Zapata Ranch to his creative process. We chatted about his childhood interest in the West and his impressions of the wide-open spaces and wildlife during his first trip to Colorado. We discussed how the West influences his art, and how he strives for simplicity in his art and life. We talked about his collaborations with other artists, such as former podcast guest Camrin Dengel, and how these partnerships fuel his creativity. Daniel also discussed how his discipline of daily drawing and his passion for creating have driven his success as an artist. And as usual, we covered books, films, favorite places in the West, and much more, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything.
And there’s one more piece of exciting news—Daniel created a special painting for the Mountain and Prairie podcast featuring my favorite animal, the bison. It’s a super-cool piece, and I’m honored that he took the time to create something so special for the podcast. We discuss it a bit during our conversation, and I loved hearing how Daniel created it. Check out the podcast webpage to see it– I set up a little online shop where you can buy shirts and hats featuring the art. There are links on the website to everything, so go check it out!
I know you’ll enjoy this episode. Thanks for listening.
Photos by Kate Matheson, art by Daniel Verges
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
3:00 – How Daniel describes his work
3:30 – Where Daniel lives
4:50 – Daniel’s experience on the Zapata Ranch
7:40 – The West’s influence on Daniel’s art
9:00 – The timeless feeling of the West
10:45 – Teambuilding through branding and ranching
11:40 – First impressions of the West
14:00 – Memorable experience from the ranches
15:40 – Learning horses
18:20 – Daniel describes his art
20:30 – Daniel’s artistic childhood
21:30 – Learning art in university, then self-teaching
24:10 – Slow Artworks
26:10 – How Daniel pushes himself artistically
28:45 – Dealing with creative block
31:30 – Lessons learned from Costa Rica
36:25 – Collaboration with Camrin Dengel and others
38:50 – Mentors and heroes
41:05 – How Daniel’s art has changed
43:50 – Managing social media
46:00 – The podcast artwork created by Daniel
49:00 – Japanese philosophy’s influence on Daniel work
52:05 – Advice to aspiring artists
55:55 – Favorite books
58:50 – Favorite films
1:01:30 – Hobbies, music, running, roping
1:03:20 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:06:00 – Favorite location in the West
1:07:20 – Best advice
1:10:30 – Request of the listeners
- Daniel on Instagram
- Slow Artworks
- Ranchlands
- Zapata Ranch
- Chris Eyer interview
- Sarah King interview
- Camrin Dengel interview
- Jillian Lukiwski interview
- Teal Blake interview
- Duke Beardsley interview
- Mark Maggiori interview
- Becca Skinner interview
- In Praise of Shadows by Junichiro Tanizaki
- Wabi Sabi for Artists, Designers, Poets, and Philosophers by Leonard Koren
- Seth Godin
- The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls
- The Wolves of Currumpaw by William Grill
- Walking by Thoreau
- My Family and Other Animals by Gerald Durrell
- Wind River
- Hostiles
- Charged
- Daniel Verges – Mountain & Prairie Art for Sale