Mountain & Prairie Podcast

Joe Whitworth is the President and CEO of The Freshwater Trust (“TFT”), an innovative and action-oriented conservation organization whose mission is to preserve and restore freshwater ecosystems. With a focus on technology and an all-star staff made up of scientists, attorneys, GIS experts, systems analysts, and more, TFT is pioneering the next generation of conservation by focusing on quantifiable results. Back when I was a Conservation Director here in Colorado, I had the great pleasure of partnering with TFT on a project involving water rights and irrigated farmland, and I was blown away by the organization’s ability to quickly put complex ideas into action for the benefit of land, water, and communities.

Joe was born into a large Midwestern family, and from an early age, his grandfather, who was a farmer, played a foundational role in his understanding of land, water, and conservation. After high school, Joe moved east to attend Dartmouth, where he played football, and then he eventually moved West to attend law school. Along the way, he began to focus his professional efforts on doing work that made the world a better place. After several stints at several different organizations, he took the reins of the organization that would eventually become The Freshwater Trust. Joe has now been at the helm of TFT for more than two decades and has grown the organization’s budget tenfold during his tenure. He’s focused, action-oriented, innovative, and very serious about solving big, complex conservation problems in the West and beyond.

As you’ll hear, Joe and I share many common interests in everything from history to reading to conservation to rivers, and, perhaps more importantly, I connect deeply with many of Joe’s core values around hard work, following your own path, and taking action. So, it’s no surprise that we had such a fun conversation. We start out talking about Joe’s grandfather, Joe’s journey from the Midwest to the Ivy League, and how he adjusted to life at Dartmouth. We talk about his early years working as a non-profit consultant and the series of events that led him to The Freshwater Trust. We discuss the ultimatum that led to TFT’s impressive growth, the type of people who thrive as staff members, and he gives an overview of their BasinScout technology. We discuss the future of environmentalism, technology’s role in solving environmental challenges, favorite books, and much more.

As I said, I’ve been a fan of TFT for many years, so I was so glad to finally have this opportunity to chat with Joe about his personal and professional operating systems.  I hope you enjoy.

---
Photos courtesy of The Freshwater Trust

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:00 - Joe’s grandfather and his lasting influence
• 9:00 - Unexpected blessings from a broken femur
• 13:00 - Adjusting to the Ivy League culture
• 16:15 - Next moves after Dartmouth
• 21:30 - Living like a monk and figuring out next steps
• 25:30 - “The world is designed to make you shut up and get in line.”
• 28:45 - Law school and beginnings at the Freshwater Trust
• 29:00 - Revamping The Freshwater Trust
• 34:00 - The board’s reaction to Joe’s plans for the future
• 39:00 - The importance of making hard decisions
• 43:45 - The magic of The Freshwater Trust team
• 47:45 - An overview of BasinScout
• 51:15 - A foundational BasinScout case study
• 58:30 - Ideas and areas of focus on the horizon
• 1:01:00 - The importance of taking action
• 1:03:30 - Next phase of environmentalism
• 1:06:00 - How TFT’s values meld with Joe’s personal values
• 1:09:00 - Expectations of new team members
• 1:12:00 - The TFT model of handing off new ideas and innovation to partners
• 1:16:00 - Favorite books

Information Referenced:

• Joe Whitworth
• The Freshwater Trust
• Clean Water Act
• Buddy Teevans
• Dartmouth
• Harry Denton's
• Bobby Clark
• CCS
• Outward Bound
• Lewis and Clark College
• Paul Fortino 
• No Child Left Inside
• The TFT team
• BasinScout and other tools
• Rogue River Case Study
• TFT Core Values
• Beyond the Hundredth Meridian: John Wesley Powell and the Second Opening of the West by Wallace Stegner
• The Dreamt Land: Chasing Water and Dust Across California by Mark Arax
• Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap...And Others Don't by Jim Collins
• Yvon's 5-15 Report
• Growing a Business by Paul Hawken
• The Obstacle is the Way Expanded 10th Anniversary Edition: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan Holiday
• The Accidental Connoisseur: An Irreverent Journey Through the Wine World by Lawrence Osborne
• American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
• Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
• Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
• Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Jesse Smith is the Director of Land Stewardship at the White Buffalo Land Trust, which is a global hub for regenerative land stewardship, ecological monitoring and research, education, and more. Jesse brings a unique perspective and a diverse set of experiences to his work in regenerative agriculture– his early interest in architecture led him to pursue an education in design, which then led to a career in product design and visual communication. But over time, he became interested in combining his artistic sensibilities with his love of the land, science, and permaculture, and soon thereafter began his journey in the world of family farming, food production, and education. Jesse is now a leader in the world of regenerative ag, and, as you’ll hear, he has a real gift for communicating the art and science of land stewardship. 

This conversation was recorded in November of 2024 on stage at the REGENERATE conference– one of the country’s foremost gatherings of regenerative agriculture practitioners and thought leaders. REGENERATE is a collaboration between the Quivira Coalition, Holistic Management International, and the American Grassfed Association, and the conference attracts fascinating people from all over the world to share knowledge, build community, and create a culture of resilience and regeneration. 

Despite sitting on stage in front of an auditorium full of people, this conversation felt much more like a fun one-on-one discussion between two friends. We covered everything from Jesse’s winding path into the world of agriculture to some of the more technical details around land monitoring and certifications. We discussed the natural disasters in Jesse’s community that highlighted huge problems in the local food systems, which eventually led to the creation of the White Buffalo Land Trust. We discussed how Jesse prioritizes his work when there are so many urgent challenges to address, and he shares his experiences with big business’s growing interest in regenerative ag. We talk about the Japanese concept of Ikigai, transforming inspiration into action, advice for building a career in regenerative ag, favorite books, and much more. We also allowed ample time for Q&A from the audience, which I know you’ll enjoy.

Jesse mentions tons of useful resources so be sure to visit the episode notes for a full list of topics we discussed and links to everything. A huge thanks to the team at REGENERATE for inviting me to the conference, thank you to Jesse for chatting with me and offering so much wisdom, and thanks to you for listening.

The episode starts out with an introduction from Sarah Wentzel-Fisher, who is the Executive Director of the Quivira Coalition and a past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest. Hope you enjoy!

---
Photos courtesy of the Quivira Coalition and REGENERATE, headshot courtesy of Jesse Smith

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:00 - An introduction from Quivira’s Executive Director, Sarah Wentzel-Fisher
• 4:45 - Ed’s introduction
• 8:00 - Jesse’s early years and path into conservation
• 12:15 - Recognizing the community need that led to the creation of the White Buffalo Land Trust
• 16:00 - How Jesse prioritizes his work at the White Buffalo Land Trust
• 21:45 - Thoughts on big business’s interest in regenerative agriculture
• 27:05 - The complexity of regenerative certifications
• 32:45 - Predictions about the future of regenerative certifications
• 35:30 - Advice for people who want to work in regenerative ag
• 41:00 - Translating inspiration into action
• 45:30 - Audience Q&A: How do stories and on-the-ground experiences help to change people’s minds?
• 50:43 - Audience Q&A: Why is the burden on regenerative producers to get certifications to prove that they are doing it correctly?
• 54:15 - Audience Q&A: Thoughts on the new administration bringing regenerative practitioners into the FDA?
• 59:20 - Audience Q&A: How do we create more accessibility around regenerative ag?
• 1:03:10 - Audience Q&A: How does regenerative ag play a role in procurement by institutional buyers?
• 1:05:00 - Audience Q&A: What is the source of people’s disconnect with food and what is one step to bridge that gap?
• 1:08:20 - Audience Q&A: What are some planning strategies to help balance stewardship and profitability
• 1:12:05 - Audience Q&A: What is the lay of the land when it comes to certifications across a broad range of markets?
• 1:16:15 - Jesse’s book recommendations

Information Referenced:

• REGENERATE conference
• Sarah Wentzel-Fisher
• Quivira Coalition
• Holistic Management International
• American Grassfed Association
• Jesse Smith
• White Buffalo Land Trust
• Figure Ate Foods
• 2015 California Wildfires
• Thomas Fire
• Steve Finkle
• Jamala Canyon Ranch
• Regenerative Agriculture
• Biodynamic Ag
• Greenwashing
• Greenhushing
• ExpoWest
• Patagonia
• Dr. Bronners
• Regenerative Organic Certified
• Savory’s EOV Protocol
• Green America
• Audubon Conservation Ranching
• Ikigai
• Will Harris
• Joel Salatin
• Farmprenuers
• Common Ground
• Richard’s Regenerative
• Bionutrient Food Association
• Nutrient Density Alliance
• Dune by Frank Herbert
• The Third Plate by Dan Barber
• Basque Country: A Culinary Journey Through a Food Lover's Paradise by Marti Buckley

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
• Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
• Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival
• Kate Mannix – A Legacy of Land Stewardship
• Daniela Ibarra-Howell – Healing the Land Holistically

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Nichole Barger is an ecologist, former university professor, and the current deputy chief scientist and lead global scientist for The Nature Conservancy. She earned her master’s degree from the University of California at Berkeley and her PhD from Colorado State University, and her career has included extensive time researching, teaching, and practicing on-the-ground, frontline conservation on issues including land degradation, restoration, and more. Prior to assuming her current position at TNC, she was the research director of the Canyonlands Research Center located at the Dugout Ranch, which you may remember as the subject of a Mountain & Prairie episode back in August of 2024.

Given her distinguished career as a scientist, you might be surprised to learn that Nichole never considered pursuing science as a vocation until the second half of her time in college. She grew up in small-town Indiana, and, although she was extremely curious, a great student, and a voracious reader, she was not particularly enamored with science and didn’t know anyone who worked as a scientist. But during college, a supportive-yet-casual comment from one of her professors planted the seed that science could be an option. Fast forward to today, she has published more than 70 peer-reviewed papers, she co-chairs the Science Policy Interface group of the UN Convention to Combat Desertification, and she leads many of TNC’s cutting-edge science initiatives.

As you’ll hear, Nichole brings a deep level of empathy, curiosity, and open-mindedness to all of her work as a scientist. Whether she’s teaching, researching, or working with conservation stakeholders, she never loses sight of the importance of human connection. We spent the first half of the conversation discussing lessons learned from her nontraditional path into the world of science, including a two-year stint where she left college to travel and explore the United States. We discussed her renewed focus on academics when she returned to school, and the moment that professor planted the seed that eventually grew into her career in science. We discuss teaching versus research, how she evolved as an educator and mentor to college students, and when she decided to apply her talents to TNC’s mission. We discuss TNC’s incorporation of Indigenous wisdom and science into its work, human health as a conservation initiative, and the importance of face-to-face human interactions. She also offers some excellent book recommendations and ideas for remaining optimistic and action-oriented during challenging times.

There’s so much wisdom packed into this episode, so be sure to check out the episode notes for a complete list of topics and links to everything. A huge thanks to Nichole for the great conversation and thank you for listening.

Photos courtesy of TNC: Header © Dave Hebert, headshot © Garrett Herndon

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Nichole’s upbringing and early years
• 7:45 - Taking a non-traditional path and her parents’ reaction
• 9:30 - Lessons learned from her two-year break
• 11:00 - Books read in high school that gave Nichole confidence to follow her own path
• 12:30 - Returning to school with a renewed focus
• 15:30 - Advice to college students who are trying to find their way in the world
• 18:15 - Her journey to becoming a successful scientist
• 20:30 - Research versus teaching
• 22:45 - Lessons learned from years of teaching
• 26:30 - When and how TNC became a professional focus
• 29:30 - Nichole describes her current job at TNC
• 31:15 - Incorporating Indigenous knowledge into TNC’s science work
• 40:00 - The importance and power of weaving in Indigenous knowledge
• 43:00 - Human health as a conservation initiative
• 47:00 - “Doom and Gloom” is not a motivating strategy
• 50:00 - Online resources for news and science (that won’t make you crazy)
• 52:00 - The importance of being with people
• 53:15 - The most exciting project Nichole is working on
• 55:00 - What can the average person do to take action and make a difference
• 59:00 - Book recommendations
• 1:03:00 - Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Nichole Barger
• Science programs at TNC
• Wheatfield, Indiana
• Evergreen State College
• UC Berkeley
• Colorado State University
• University of Colorado at Boulder
• Flipped classroom
• BLM
• Colorado Plateau
• Canyonlands Research Center
• United Nations - UNCCD Science-Policy Interface
• Dugout Ranch
• Heidi Redd and Sue Bellagamba podcast
• Celene Hawkins and Izabella Ruffino
• Leave It As It Is by David Gessner
• The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown
• Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Mark Easter – Food, Soil, and Our Planet’s Future
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Dr. Emily Howe – The Interconnectedness of Mountains, Forests, Rivers, and Estuaries
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Mark Easter is a Colorado-based ecologist and author whose new book is titled The Blue Plate: A Food Lover's Guide to Climate Chaos. If you care about food and you care about Planet Earth, The Blue Plate is a must-read. It explores the production, consumption, and disposal of many of our favorite foods– seafood, salad, bread, chicken, steak, potatoes, ice cream, and more– and offers a thoughtful and nuanced analysis of these foods' impacts on the environment. This is not a gloom-and-doom climate change book, nor does it have the condescending tone that sometimes accompanies many climate-related readings. While Mark is crystal clear about the massive threats facing our planet, this is a book built on the ideals of optimism, ingenuity, and taking action. I loved it.

Mark lives and works in Fort Collins and has conducted research in academia and private industry since 1988. He has enjoyed a very successful and impactful career at Colorado State University, and he has authored and co-authored more than 50 scientific papers and reports related to carbon cycling and the carbon footprint of agriculture, forestry, and other land uses. But Mark also has a real gift for storytelling and for breaking down enormously complex topics into understandable and enjoyable writing. His writing is personal, educational, and fun to read, and I credit Mark and The Blue Plate with helping me to finally fully understand issues around greenhouse gas emissions and carbon sequestration.

Mark and I met up a few weeks ago at CSU and had a fun and nuanced conversation about food, agriculture, and the climate. We started by discussing why he refers to himself as a “greenhouse gas accountant,” and he offers an excellent explanation of soil's all-important role in balancing the release and capture of carbon on Planet Earth. We talk about how grasslands, jungles, and mangroves sequester carbon, and how and why the destruction of any of these ecosystems negatively affects the planet. We discuss Mark’s ten-year process of writing this book and how Patagonia Books helped him bring his vision to life. We discuss how methane is produced by everything from reservoirs to ruminants, and why that particular greenhouse gas is more harmful than the others. We discuss regenerative agriculture, meat production, composting, and personal diet choices, and Mark offers a long list of excellent book recommendations.

We barely scratched the surface of all of the fascinating topics in The Blue Plate, so if you enjoy this conversation, I’d encourage you to pick up a copy of the book and dig in. I know you’ll enjoy it and learn a lot.

---
Photos courtesy of Patagonia, Header © Remy Anthes,

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:00 - Intro and how Mark describes his work
• 7:15 - Parallels between carbon accounting and business accounting
• 13:45 - An overview of soil and carbon
• 21:30 - Carbon in grasslands vs jungles vs mangroves
• 25:00 - How and why Mark decided to write this book
• 33:00 - The ten-year process of writing the book
• 37:00 - Greenhouse gases explained
• 40:00 - Methane feedback loop explained
• 43:30 - A fascinating story about methane in Lake Powell
• 46:15 - Reservoirs and evaporation
• 47:00 - The most difficult chapter to write: Ruminants and meat
• 55:30 - The increasing global demand for meat
• 58:00 - Taking action and personal responsibility
• 1:01:30 - Personal responsibility versus regulation
• 1:04:00 - A helpful way to understand carbon quantities
• 1:06:00 - Carbon consequences of transforming forests to grasslands
• 1:09:00 - All about composting
• 1:13:00 - Business opportunities in regenerative agriculture
• 1:16:30 - Favorite books
• 1:22:15 - Parting words

Information Referenced:

• Mark Easter
• The Blue Plate: A Food Lover's Guide to Climate Chaos
• Keith Paustian
• Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
• Marlen Eve
• Stephen Ogle
• Bill Parton
• Excited Skin of the Planet
• Video: Soil Organic Matter: Humanity's True Capital by Francesca Cotrufo, PhD
• Melannie Hartman
• SueEllen Campbell
• The Soil Will Save Us: How Scientists, Farmers, and Foodies Are Healing the Soil to Save the Planet by Kristin Ohlson
• Kiss the Ground
• John Calderazzo
• Rachel Carson
• Doug Brinkley interview
• Aldo Leopold
• EO Wilson
• Barbara Kingsolver
• Greenhouse gases
• Methane feedback loop
• Into the Clear Blue Sky: The Path to Restoring Our Atmosphere by Rob Jackson
• Cod: A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World by Mark Kurlansky
• Prairyerth: A Deep Map by William Least Heat-Moon
• Animal, Vegetable, Miracle: A Year of Food Life by Barbara Kingsolver
• A Sand County Almanac: And Sketches Here and There by Aldo Leopold
• Coming Home to Eat: The Pleasures and Politics of Local Foods by Gary Paul Nabhan
• Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
• Laura Pritchett

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
• Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Dr. Emily Howe – The Interconnectedness of Mountains, Forests, Rivers, and Estuaries
• Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Kelsey Molloy is the Northern Great Plains Director at The Nature Conservancy and Angel DeVries is the Executive Director of the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance (RSA), and they both live and work on the Northern Great Plains in Malta, Montana. While they work for different organizations, Kelsey and Angel collaborate on a long list of critical projects, most of which are focused on grassland conservation, ranching, and community partnerships. 

One of their most notable collaborations involves the Matador Ranch, a 60,000-acre TNC-owned property near Dodson, Montana. The Matador Ranch is home to an outside-the-box conservation initiative known as a grassbank, which is a partnership opportunity that offers ranchers grazing access to rich grasses in exchange for adopting sustainable practices on their own property.

This grassbank was introduced during the historic drought of the early 2000s, and it offered much needed grazing opportunities for ranching families whose homeplaces had been hit hard by the dry conditions. Since then, for the past 20+ years, the grassbank has continued to provide win-win solutions for ranchers and conservation-focused non-profit organizations, as well as helping to bolster trust, goodwill, and community cohesiveness.

As you’ll hear in this conversation, the grassbank has been such a success, the TNC is currently searching for another ranch to acquire and eventually transform into a community led and owned grassbank. This “grassbank 2.0” will not only provide a grazing safety net during times of drought, but will also further the work of providing opportunities for new or young ranchers who are just entering the business but do not yet have the capital to purchase their own land. 

We connected via the magic of the internet, and had a wide-ranging conversation about their productive collaboration, grassbanks, challenges and opportunities in the Northern Great Plains, and more. We discussed the work of the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance, the history of the Matador Ranch, and the ins and outs of the Matador Ranch grassbank. We discussed how skyrocketing land values are making it nearly impossible for new ranchers to enter the business, and also how succession planning is becoming an important, but often underappreciated, issue for ranching families. We also talked a lot about the need for optimism and curiosity, the importance of building community, and how TNC and RSA are working to bridge cultural and geographic divides. We also learn about RSA’s book club, which will likely be of great interest to many of you.

I learned so much from this conversation and appreciate Kelsey and Angel taking time out of their busy schedules to chat with me.  Hope you enjoy!

Header photo © Ami Vitale/TNC, headshots courtesy of Kelsey and Angel

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Kelsey and Angel introduce themselves
• 8:10 - Background on the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance (RSA)
• 10:00 - A few of the biggest challenges facing Great Plains ranchers
• 15:30 - The history of the Matador Ranch and the grassbank
• 22:00 - Lessons learned from the grassbank
• 24:15 - A local’s perspective on the grassbank
• 25:30 - Wildlife-friendly fencing explained
• 26:30 - Other examples of grassbanks
• 30:15 - Emerging plans for a new grassbank
• 33:45 - Steps involved in finding a new property
• 36:00 - Success stories from the Matador Ranch
• 41:00 - Easements as a tool for grasslands restoration
• 43:45 - Importance of positivity and optimism
• 48:45 - Importance of optimism
• 52:00 - Important books
• 56:15 - RSA book club
• 59:45 - Words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Kelsey Molloy
• Angel DeVries
• TNC Montana
• Ranchers Stewardship Alliance
• Matador Ranch
• Malta, MT
• AUM
• Matt Morehead
• Amber Smith
• Winnett ACES
• Bowdoin National Wildlife Refuge
• Plowprint report from World Wildlife Fund
• Pioneer Cattleman in Montana: The Story of the Circle C Ranch by Walt Coburn
• Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations by David R. Montgomery
• Nature's Best Hope: A New Approach to Conservation That Starts in Your Yard by Douglas W. Tallamy
• The Unabomber Manifesto: Industrial Society and Its Future
• Brené Brown
• Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear
• Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action by Simon Sinek
• Otters Dance: A Rancher's Journey to Enlightenment and Stewardship by Bob Budd
• RSA Book Club and other events
• Elaine Froese

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Kate Mannix – A Legacy of Land Stewardship
• Amber Smith – Creating Connection & Community
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
• Heidi Redd & Sue Bellagamba – Tales from the Dugout Ranch
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then you’re already familiar with the Partnership of Rangeland Trusts, also known as PORT. But for any new listeners, PORT is an alliance of agriculture-focused conservation organizations dedicated to preserving working farms and ranches and conserving productive agricultural lands. PORT is currently celebrating its 20th anniversary, and in those two decades (and as of this recording), PORT organizations have helped more than 2,000 families conserve almost 3.2 million acres of productive working lands across the West.

In this episode, I chat with three executive directors of PORT-affiliated organizations, two of which have been on the podcast before. You’ll recognize Chad Ellis of the Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT), and Erik Glenn of the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust. And new to the podcast is Michael Delbar, who leads the California Rangeland Trust. I’ve known all three of these guys for many years now, and I have long admired the ways that they lead their respective organizations. But perhaps even more impressive to me is how they have worked as a team with all nine PORT organizations to increase the scale, influence, and effectiveness of large-scale, working lands conservation.

I don’t think I’ve ever recorded an episode this early in the morning– we squeezed it in between an early morning breakfast and PORT’s board meeting. Just the day before, we had all been at TALT’s Working Lands Innovation Summit on the Birdwell-Clark Ranch in Henrietta, Texas, which was a huge success. So this was a great time to reflect on the importance of working lands, and we covered a lot: The Working Lands Innovation Summit and the importance of spending time out on the land; the history and purpose of PORT, the growth of additive conservation projects; private lands conservation as an economic driver; hard work; innovation; the importance of advocating for conservation in Washington DC; future plans for PORT, and much more. As you’ll hear, I start out chatting with Chad and Erik, and then Michael steps in for Erik about halfway through and shares his valuable perspective.  

A huge thanks to TALT for inviting me to Texas and another huge thanks to all the PORT organizations and landowner partners who have had such a positive and significant impact on the landscapes of the West.

-----
Header photo courtesy of the California Rangeland Trust

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - The event that brought us all to Texas
• 7:00 - Importance of being on the land for the conference
• 8:45 - Introduction to the Partnership of Rangelands Trust (PORT)
• 12:30 - How and why PORT was created
• 15:30 - Additive conservation and the future
• 18:45 - Examples of additive conservation projects
• 25:30 - Private lands conservation as an economic driver
• 29:15 - Intro to Michael Delbar
• 31:00 - How the perception of conservation easements has changed in California
• 32:00 - Once again, the importance of relationships
• 34:15 - Hard work and innovation
• 39:45 - Advocating in DC
• 42:00 - How PORT’s scale translates into results
• 43:30 - Future plans for PORT
• 47:00 - Funding needs and parting words

Information Referenced:

• Partnership of Rangeland Trusts (PORT)
• All PORT members
• Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT)
• Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust
• California Rangeland Trust
• Chad Ellis
• Erik Glenn
• Michael Delbar
• Aldo Leopold
  • "Conservation will ultimately boil down to rewarding the private landowner who conserves the public interest." – Aldo Leopold
• Conservation easements
• CSU Economic Study on Private Lands Conservation
• Dr. Roel Lopez
• NRCS
• California Rangeland Trust Presents: From the Ground Up: Healing Our Planet, Healing Ourselves
• California Rangeland Trust Podcast: Tuned Into The Land
• Land Trust Alliance

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Heidi Redd & Sue Bellagamba – Tales from the Dugout Ranch
• Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
• Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
• Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival
• Landscape-Scale Management in a Private Land State
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Kevin Grange is a Wyoming-based author, paramedic, and firefighter. His most recent book is titled Grizzly Confidential: An Astounding Journey Into the Secret Life of North America’s Most Fearsome Predator, which is a must-read for anyone interested in the evolving relationship between humans and bears. The book follows Kevin’s journey throughout the American West and Alaska as he seeks to better understand grizzly bears, debunk many deeply engrained myths, explore case studies of successful coexistence, and more. The book is part travelogue, part adventure story, and part science– making for a fun and educational read that I highly recommend.

Kevin was born and raised in New Hampshire, where he grew up obsessed with the outdoors and, like many of us, obsessed with kids’ outdoor books such as Old Yeller, Sounder, and Where the Red Fern Grows. He attended paramedic school in California and began his career in downtown LA before landing a job as a National Park paramedic in Yellowstone. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Kevin has managed to successfully merge his love of medicine and adventure with his talent for writing, and with a lot of hard work, he’s enjoyed two successful, simultaneous careers– one in medicine and the other in writing. 

Kevin and I connected just a few weeks after the publication of Grizzly Confidential and had a fascinating conversation about his career, his writing process, and his journey to better understand the legendary grizzly bear. We discussed his career path that led him to the West and his first experiences working in Yellowstone. We talk about balancing his paramedic work with his writing work, and how having a full-time job allows him to be more selective with his writing projects. We obviously talk a lot about grizzly bears– grizzly research, poaching, backcountry bear safety, his travels to Alaska, success stories of coexistence, false grizzly myths, overcoming his fear of grizzlies, and much more. Kevin is also a voracious reader, so he offers up plenty of excellent book recommendations.

A huge thanks to Kevin for writing such a fun and educational book, and a huge thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!

---
Photos courtesy of Kevin Grange

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Intro and Kevin’s upbringing
• 5:45 - Favorite books as a kid
• 8:15 - First memories of grizzlies
• 9:15 - First encounter with a grizzly
• 11:30 - Becoming a National Park paramedic
• 13:45 - Types of emergencies in National Parks
• 15:00 - Idiotic tourist mistakes
• 16:45 - Balancing paramedic work with writing
• 19:30 - Why Grizzlies?
• 22:15 - How this book’s angle is different from other Grizzly books
• 26:20 - What’s the difference between a “Grizzly bear” and a “Brown bear”?
• 27:45 - Washington State University’s Bear Center
• 32:45 - Grizzly poaching
• 37:15 - Learning bear defense methods, including bear spray
• 41:15 - Basic backcountry safety in bear country
• 44:15 - Examples of good and bad coexistence strategies
• 48:15 - Debunking certain grizzly myths 
• 52:45 - Continued learning about grizzlies
• 55:45 - How writing this book compares to the others
• 57:15 0 Favorite writers and books
• 59:30 - How has Kevin changed because of this project?
• 1:05:30 - Learning to switch gears after an intense paramedic experience
• 1:07:30 - Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Kevin Grange
• Grizzly Confidential by Kevin Grange
• All of Kevin's Books
• Old Yeller by Fred Gipson
• Sounder by William Armstrong
• Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls
• Thomas Mangelsen
• Morning Glory hotspring
• Grizzly 399
• Washington State University Bear Center
• Brooks Falls
• Nick Mott episode
• Todd Orr
• Surviving the Griz course
• McNeil Bear Sanctuary
• Fat Bear Week
• National Parks Magazine
• Eager by Ben Goldfarb
• The Devils Teeth by Susan Casey
• Peter Matthiessen
• Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
• Kevin Fedarko
• Pete McBride
• Kate Siber
• Stephanie Pearson
• On Writing by Stephen King
• The Soul of an Octopus by Sy Montgomery
• What a Fish Knows by Jonathan Balcombe

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Nick Mott - A Masterclass in Nuanced Storytelling
• 50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Nick Mott is an award-winning multimedia journalist who lives in Livingston, Montana. His latest project is a wonderful new podcast called The Wide Open, which he produced in collaboration with Montana Public Radio and the Montana Media Lab. The podcast offers a fresh look into our ever-changing relationship with the Endangered Species Act (ESA), and it digs into the history, nuance, and modern-day controversies surrounding what has been called “the most powerful environmental legislation in the world.” Nick explores this divisive topic with deep curiosity and journalistic integrity, and I found the podcast to be amazingly educational and entertaining– which is a rare combo when discussing such a complex piece of legislation.

If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then many of the topics Nick explores in The Wide Open will be of great interest– grizzly bears, wolves, the environmental history of the West, and more. You’ll also hear a few familiar voices, including past podcast guest and living legend Doug Peacock. But what I most appreciated about The Wide Open is how Nick was able to humanize the stories surrounding such a divisive part of Western culture– he features people who love the ESA and people who hate it, but all of them are given the opportunity to share their stories and unique outlooks. In this current cultural moment of hot takes, outrage, and misinformation, The Wide Open is a much-needed return to nuance, curiosity, and civility.

As you’d expect from an award-winning podcaster, Nick knows how to tell a great story, so I know you’ll enjoy this episode. We start out discussing the history of the ESA and Nick’s fresh approach to exploring such a well-known environmental story. We discuss how the ESA is used as a tool to achieve goals other than species protection, how Nick balances the need to make his podcasts both informative and fun to listen to, how he accounts for his own personal biases when telling stories, and how he goes about choosing people to interview. About halfway through the episode, Nick recounts a horrifying recent run-in he had with a grizzly bear, and he discusses how that close call affected his thinking on some of these complex wildlife issues. We also discuss his favorite books, plans for future seasons of The Wide Open, how he deals with negative feedback, wolf reintroduction in Colorado, his professional heroes, and much more.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything, including Nick’s other podcasts and his book This is Wildfire, which he co-authored with Justin Angle. 

A big thanks to Nick for taking the time, thank you for listening, and please subscribe to The Wide Open– I know you’ll really enjoy it!

---
Photos by Zach Altman

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:50 - What attracts Nick to specific stories or topics?
• 6:30 - Nick describes his new approach to examining the ESA.
• 8:30 - A brief history of the ESA
• 11:35 - Using the ESA as a tool to save species OR achieve other goals
• 16:00 - How Nick chooses people to interview and include on the podcast
• 19:15 - Balancing telling stories that are both entertaining and substantive
• 22:50 - Accounting for bias in journalism
• 24:45 - Why Nick includes his own story in the podcast narrative
• 27:30 - Introvert or extrovert?
• 28:50 - Did Nick change his mind on anything related to the ESA?
• 31:30 - How the internet has inflamed the divisiveness of the ESA
• 33:00 - Nick’s recent terrifying encounter with a grizzly
• 39:00 - The psychological aftermath of the grizzly scare
• 44:45 - Providing a framework for thinking about wolf reintroduction in Colorado
• 49:00 - People Nick admires
• 53:00 - What type of journalism does Nick like the best?
• 55:00 - Future seasons of The Wide Open?
• 56:45 - People Nick admires
• 1:00:00 - Favorite books
• 1:02:00 - Dealing with negative feedback
• 1:04:00 - Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Nick Mott
• The Wide Open
• Fireline podcast
• This is Wildfire by Nick Mott and Justin Angle
• Endangered Species Act
• Doug Brinkley
• Rachel Carson
• Tennessee Valley Authority
• Snail darter
• NOLS
• The Final Forest by William Dietrich
• Doug Peacock
• Daniel Anderson
• Amy Martin
• Threshold
• This American Life
• RadioLab
• Jon Ronson books
• Wild Ones by Jon Mooallem
• The Sixth Extinction by Elizabeth Kolbert

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• 50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• “Good Fire, Bad Fire” – A Film and Discussion about Forest Health
• Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Mauricia Baca is the State Director of the Nevada Chapter of The Nature Conservancy. In this role, she leads TNC’s efforts in Nevada across a wide range of conservation issues that are familiar to Mountain & Prairie listeners– the Colorado River, the Sagebrush Sea, and renewable energy. But Nevada is also home to some very unique conservation challenges related to biodiversity, mining for rare earth metals, groundwater for agriculture, and more. So I was excited to have this opportunity to learn from Mauricia about some of the specific challenges facing Nevada, TNC’s solutions to these challenges, and how the lessons learned can be applied in other regions of the West.

Mauricia was born in Mexico, grew up in New York City, and credits much of her love of nature and the environment to her childhood experiences exploring Central Park. After college, she served in the Peace Corps, worked as a community organizer in New York, and eventually attended law school. After four years of working as a prosecutor for the United States Department of Justice’s Environment and Natural Resources Division, she moved to Nevada and began her first position with The Nature Conservancy, leading conservation work on the Truckee River. She has served as the State Director since November 2020, and, as you’ll hear, all of her efforts are infused with a deep level of compassion, empathy, and gratitude.

Mauricia has such a fascinating personal and professional trajectory, and there are many lessons to be learned from both her approach to her life and career, and the specifics of TNC’s critical work in Nevada. We talked about her youth in Mexico and New York City, and how she has been committed to environmental work since she was a very young girl. We discuss her stint in the Peace Corps and how those experiences laid the groundwork for her current work with TNC. She shares some insights from switching from the litigation world to the conservation world, and she offers some wisdom for folks looking to make a similar transition. We discuss lithium mining, groundwater conservation, and climate change, and how TNC is making strides to protect biodiversity while balancing society's growing need for rare earth metals, water, and development. She also shares some wisdom gleaned from her recent battle with breast cancer, and discusses how her approach to work has changed since that life-altering health scare.

A big thanks to Mauricia for being so open and thoughtful, and for sharing so many wonderful insights from her inspiring career. Be sure to check out the episode notes below for links to everything we discussed and to watch Mauricia's recent TEDx talk, which serves as a great companion to this interview. Enjoy!

Header photo © Chip Carroon/TNC, headshot © The Nature Conservancy

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Mauricia’s upbringing and early years in Mexico and New York City
• 7:00 - When she knew she wanted to devote her career to environmental work
• 9:15 - Legal training as thought training
• 11:45 - How the Peace Corps and other experiences helped her learn to build trust and relationships
• 16:45 - When TNC entered Mauricia’s life as a next career step
• 19:45 - More details on how she was able to land her first job with TNC
• 24:00 - Career evolution within TNC
• 26:00 - Starting as TNC  State Director at the beginning of the pandemic
• 28:45 - Tackling climate-related challenges in Nevada and beyond
• 34:00 - The Atwood Preserve and the quiet beauty of the Mojave Desert
• 39:00 - TNC’s work to preserve biodiversity in the face of lithium mining
• 43:45 - The importance of groundwater for Nevada’s ag sector
• 49:00 - Working in partnership with Tribal communities
• 54:00 - Thinking locally and acting globally
• 56:00 - Lessons learned from Mauricia’s recent cancer scare
• 1:03:30 - Favorite books
• 1:06:00 - Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Mauricia Baca
• The Nature Conservancy in Nevada
• TNC Nevada’s 40^th Anniversary
• Mauricia’s TEDx talk
• The Sagebrush Sea
• The Colorado River
• Secrets of the Mojave
• TNC’s work on groundwater
• TNC’s lithium report
• Power of Place-West
• Mining the Sun
• Peace Corps
• Department of Justice’s Environment and Natural Resources Division
• Truckee River
• Get Outdoors Nevada
• Atwood Preserve
• Amargosa River
• Ash Meadows
• How the nation’s driest state is using cash to free up water The Washington Post
• Celene and Izabella episode
• Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
• Dumping in Dixie by Robert Bullard
• Gabriel García Márquez
• Isabel Allende
• The House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende
• Cloud Cuckoo Land by Anthony Doerr

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
• Dan Stellar – Bolstering Biodiversity in Arizona and Beyond
• Kate Mannix – A Legacy of Land Stewardship
• Matt Pierson – Finding New Solutions for Food Insecurity
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Joe Schobert is a retired NFL Pro Bowler who is devoting the second act of his professional career to advocating for the West’s wild places. 

Joe was born and raised in Wisconsin, and despite having an exemplary high school football career, he was not offered a scholarship to play college football. So he took matters into his own hands and walked on at the University of Wisconsin– four years later, he was awarded the Jack Lambert Trophy as the nation’s best linebacker. He was then drafted by the Cleveland Browns, and a few years later, he earned a spot on the NFL’s Pro Bowl team. After a successful career with teams including the Browns, Jaguars, and Steelers, Joe recently retired and is leaning into the next phase of his career.

Since childhood, Joe has loved the outdoors and wide-open spaces. During his time with the Browns, he began leveraging his influence and resources to raise awareness and funds for conservation-focused organizations. Through an NFL fundraising initiative called “My Cause, My Cleats,” he spotlighted several Colorado-based conservation organizations on the NFL’s international stage. Back in 2021, his non-profit of choice was my old employer, Palmer Land Conservancy, and before that, he supported the Colorado Fourteeners Initiative. His most recent fundraiser is called the NFLPA Fishing for Conservation, which was created to raise funds for the amazing team at Western Rivers Conservancy.

As you’ll hear in this conversation, Joe loves the West, loves hiking, fishing, and outdoor adventure, and loves exploring wild places with his wife Megan and their two young sons. He also understands and appreciates the wide range of threats facing everything from family farms and ranches to public lands to river ecosystems, and he is committed to doing his part to protect these invaluable resources. So in this conversation, we talk about it all– from Joe’s inspiring journey at the highest levels of professional athletics all the way up to this summer’s first annual Fishing for Conservation, which took place at Lake Tahoe. At his core, Joe is a focused, humble, and action-oriented guy, and it was such a treat to learn the origins of his talents and how he has applied those talents to both football and conservation.

A huge thanks to Joe for joining me for a chat, and for his years-long commitment to western conservation. Enjoy!

---
Photos courtesy of Joe Schobert

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:20 - Joe’s upbringing
• 6:15 - When it became clear that Joe was a talented athlete
• 9:30 - Discussing how, despite his clear talent, Joe did not receive an athletic scholarship to college, and how he pushed past that
• 18:15 - When Joe arrived at the University of Wisconsin
• 20:15 - What Joe is most proud of doing at Wisconsin
• 22:15 - Whether or not there was room for other activities (besides school and football) during Joe’s college experience
• 25:00 - When the NFL became a possibility for Joe
• 26:30 - How Joe chose an agent
• 29:45 - Discussing the Combine
• 32:30 - Discussing the NFL Draft
• 35:15 - Discussing training camp with the Browns
• 37:30 - Joe describes the training camp balance between preparing to work as a team but also working against teammates for a spot on the roster
• 39:00 - The importance of “intangibles” and “soft skills” in the NFL
• 40:45 - When conservation entered Joe’s brain, and how he ended up in Colorado
• 50:00 - Joe’s nonprofit, and the conservation fundraiser he held in Lake Tahoe
• 55:15 - Joe’s recent river trip in Montana
• 58:00 - Joe’s retirement and family life
• 1:00:30 - Joe’s book recommendations
• 1:03:15 - Discussing the need for action
• 1:06:00 - Joe’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Joe Schobert
• Jim Leonhard
• J.J. Watt
• Athletes First LLC
• NFL Combine
• Von Miller
• Miles Garrett
• Muskie
• Colorado Fourteeners Initiative
• Palmer Land Conservancy
• My Cause, My Cleats
  • More about Joe’s My Cause, My Cleats
• Western Rivers Conservancy
• Bob Marshall Wilderness
• Schotime Dance Center
• Deep Creek by Pam Houston
• The Riyria Revelations by Michael Sullivan

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Dylan Tomine – Protecting What He Loves
• Luke Smithwick – A Life in High Places
• Brendan Leonard, Part 2 – On Running, Creating, and Other Irrational Passions
• Mike Foote – Perfection is in the Process
• Chris Burkard – The Art of Suffering
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Heidi Redd is a renowned rancher, conservationist, author, and member of the National Cowgirl Museum’s Hall of Fame. Sue Bellagamba serves as Canyonlands Regional Director at the Nature Conservancy, and for more than thirty years, she has worked to protect the lands and waters of southeastern Utah.

Heidi and TNC have been partners since 1997 when Heidi sold her family’s Utah ranch– The Dugout Ranch– to the Nature Conservancy in a historic conservation deal that protected the property from impending development. The Dugout Ranch is located at the gateway to Canyonlands National Park and sits within the boundaries of what is now Bears Ears National Monument– a fragile and arid landscape that has faced various development and environmental threats for many decades.

Heidi and Sue have worked together in many capacities over the years, with one of their most notable achievements being the creation of The Canyonlands Research Center (“CRC”), which is headquartered at the Dugout Ranch. The CRC was founded in 2010, and its mission is to “promote a sustainable future on the Colorado Plateau for people and nature through research, inspiration, and demonstration of evidence-based solutions to solve some of our most pressing ecological, social, and economic issues.”

Heidi is also the author of the excellent new book titled A Cowgirl's Conservation Journey: Stories from the Dugout Ranch. The book details her fascinating and adventurous life, with tales ranging from her youth (which included lots of rock climbing and skydiving), to her early years on the Dugout Ranch, all the way up to some recent behind-the-scenes stories from the designation of Bears Ears as a National Monument. If you’re a fan of history, adventure, ranching, conservation, and purpose-driven people, I know you’ll enjoy the book.

We covered a lot in the episode, including Heidi’s upbringing, her first visit to the Dugout Ranch, and when she knew that she would devote her life to stewarding the Dugout’s spectacular landscapes. Sue provides some excellent context around conservation in the American Southwest, and why drylands are such a critical ecosystem and focus of TNC’s efforts. We discuss how TNC initially built trust with Heidi back in the 1990s, the creation of The Canyonlands Research Center, new insights Heidi gleaned from writing her book, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, including Heidi’s book.

A huge thanks to Heidi and Sue for taking the time to chat with me and share their wisdom from so many decades of conversation work in such a special part of the country. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, header photo and Heidi's headshot © Ted Wood

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Heidi’s upbringing
• 7:15 - Heidi describes the Dugout Ranch
• 13:30 - When Heidi knew she wanted to dedicate her life to the Dugout Ranch and surrounding area
• 16:00 - When Heidi took the reins of the Dugout
• 20:45 - When Heidi became interested in working with TNC
• 24:30 - Why Heidi trusted TNC
• 26:45 - Sue explains why TNC wanted to get involved with the Dugout Ranch and what their plan was once they purchased it
• 30:15 - Sue explains the mission and purpose of the Canyonlands Research Center
• 32:15 - When climate change got on Heidi’s radar
• 37:45 - How Heidi discusses climate change, given our political climate
• 41:30 - Sue explains why drylands are so important
• 44:00 - Heidi and Sue explain the impact of the political battle surrounding Bears Ears on their work
• 50:30 - Heidi discusses whether or not writing her book helped her come to new conclusions
• 54:00 - Heidi’s hopes for her family
• 55:30 - Heidi and Sue’s book recommendations
• 59:45 - Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• A Cowgirl’s Conservation Journey by Heidi Redd
• The Dugout Ranch
• Heidi’s Cowgirl Hall of Fame induction video
• Canyonlands Research Center
• Cisco (fish)
• Canyonlands Field Institute
• Abajo Mountains UT
• Senator Rob Bishop
• Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell
• Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey
• Book of the Hopi by Frank Waters
• Blow Sand in His Soul: Bates Wilson, the Heart of Canyonlands by Jen Jackson Quintano
• Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Curt Meine is a Senior Fellow at The Aldo Leopold Foundation and one of the world’s foremost experts on the life, work, and legacy of conservation icon Aldo Leopold. Curt is the author of the biography Aldo Leopold: His Life and Work, and he also works as a conservation biologist, a professor, a senior fellow with the Center for Humans and Nature, and much more.

Since the very beginning of Mountain & Prairie, Aldo Leopold has been one of the most referenced, admired, and influential conservation thinkers whose name and ideas have been referenced over and over on the podcast. Whether I’m talking to people in agriculture or entertainment, writing or athletics, history or politics, there always seems to be a thread of thinking that connects many Mountain and Prairie guests to the Land Ethic of Aldo Leopold.

So, I was long overdue in devoting an episode exclusively to Leopold, and I was thrilled to have the opportunity to chat with Curt, one of our most admired and trusted Leopold scholars. Whether you are brand new to the work of Leopold or you’ve read A Sand County Almanac a hundred times, I think you’ll learn a lot from this episode. Curt has a real gift for discussing the details of Leopold’s life in an amazingly engaging way, while also helping us to understand Leopold’s legacy in the context of the broad history of North American conservation.

We start the conversation with an overview of Leopold’s early years and upbringing, and his eventual enrollment in the Yale School of Forestry. We discuss Leopold’s formative years in the American Southwest, how his outside-the-box ideas about wildlife sometimes clashed with the status quo, and his eventual move back to Wisconsin. We talk a lot about Leopold’s personality and how it compares to other conservation icons, how his work was received both in his lifetime and after his death, his surprising challenges finding a publisher for A Sand County Almanac, and that book’s long-lasting influence. We also discuss criticisms of Leopold’s work, some of his ideas that may not hold up as well today as they did in their time, and Leopold’s abundant curiosity and willingness to change his mind. We also discuss books, the very important work of the Aldo Leopold Foundation, and much more.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics and links to everything. And also, I want to thank my friend, the great conservationist and all-around amazing human Doug Duren for so generously introducing me to the team at The Aldo Leopold Foundation and being such a steadfast champion of Leoplod’s legacy.

Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy.

---
Photos courtesy of Wikipedia and The Aldo Leopold Foundation

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:45 - Aldo Leopold’s upbringing
• 11:15 - Leopold’s work in the Southwest
• 16:30 - How Leopold’s persona may or may not have helped (or harmed) him in his efforts to implement conservation
• 20:!5 - What brought Leopold back to his home state of Wisconsin 
• 22:45 - How Leopold’s novel ideas for wildlife management were received by the Forest Service establishment
• 26:45 - How Leopold’s ideas influenced forestry and conservation thinking outside of the Forest Service, and whether or not this influenced FDR’s conservation work
• 32:45 - Whether or not Leopold ever lost his cool in his fight to change land stewardship thinking in the US
• 37:00 - Discussing A Sand County Almanac, and how long it took to be viewed as the influential work it is considered by many to be today
• 43:15 - Leopold’s passion for, and balance between, science and art
• 45:45 - Which of Leopold’s stances or ideas do not hold up today
• 50:45 - Leopold’s willingness to accept change and criticism, and its importance today
• 53:15 - An overview of the Aldo Leopold Foundation
• 57:45 - Curt’s book recommendations
• 1:01:30 - Curt’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Curt Meine
• Aldo Leopold - His Life & Work by Curt Meine
• Aldo Leopold Foundation
• Nick Offerman
• Sauk Tribe
• Meskwaki Tribe
• Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest
• Douglas Brinkley
• A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold
• Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
• The Meadow by James Galvin
• Wendell Berry
• Gary Snyder
• Terry Tempest Williams
• Robin Wall Kimmerer
• The Center for Humans and Nature
• Beloved Beasts by Michelle Nijhuis
• Gary Paul Nabhan
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Gathering Moss by Robin Wall Kimmerer

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Hampton Sides – Live at the Aspen Institute
• David Gessner, Part 3 – A Confluence of Conservation Ideals
• Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

This is a completely different kind of episode, featuring a fun and at times crazy conversation with my two daughters, Janie and Louise. 

Back in June, we were eating dinner when, out of the blue, both girls expressed an enthusiastic interest in being guests on the podcast.  So the next day, we set up the podcast gear at our dining room table, sat down, and had what I thought was a funny conversation.

Both girls were surprisingly relaxed and acting pretty naturally despite having microphones jammed up in their faces, and I thought that the conversation highlighted their personalities, curiosities, and senses of humor. But I fully understand and admit that I am about as biased as any human can be when it comes to these two girls, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.

As you’ll hear, we jammed a lot of crazy topics into thirty minutes, including: camping, what makes for an ideal campground, their understanding of conservation, violin, rock climbing, jiu-jitsu, North Carolina versus the American West, the Biltmore House, silly 19th-century rules about girls wearing bathing suits, Costa Rica, Alcatraz, drunk people, earthquakes and tsunamis, our favorite secret spot in Colorado, favorite books, commentary on my choice of shirts and underwear, and more topics you probably never thought you’d hear on Mountain & Prairie. I also asked them each to prepare a question to ask me, and one of them involved the unexpected topic of me getting into a fight with a wild animal– a subject I’d never really considered in detail.

Anyway, I appreciate you humoring me with this episode. It was fun for the girls, fun for me, and my wife Kim and I will be happy to have this audio time capsule years from now when they are out of the house, living their own lives, and having their own adventures.

Next week, we’ll be back to the normal episodes featuring grown-ups. I’ve got a great line-up of conversations coming your way, including a deep dive into Aldo Leopold’s life and work, a conversation with a Canyonlands conservation/cowgirl/ranching living legend, and live interviews from the Old Salt Festival.

Thanks for listening, and hope you get a few chuckles from this conversation with Janie and Louise.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

Looking for episodes that feature adults? Then check these out:

• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
• Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
• Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Nancy Smith is the Conservation Director for The Nature Conservancy’s Colorado River Program, and Austin Rempel is the Riparian Restoration Program Manager at The Nature Conservancy. Both Nancy and Austin are working on the front lines of some of the West’s most innovative water and habitat conservation projects– projects that benefit everything from groundwater supplies to wildlife habitat, climate resiliency to ecosystem health. 

If you’ve listened to many of these TNC-focused episodes, then you’ll know that TNC works extensively throughout the Colorado River Basin on a wide range of conservation issues that affect people, wildlife, and landscapes. In this episode, we’re going to zoom in on one very specific, very simple, and very effective process that has the potential to have massive positive impacts on ecosystem health throughout the West.

The process is called “low-tech process-based restoration,” which is the practice of adding simple, low-cost structures made of natural materials like rocks, wood, and posts to simulate natural processes like beaver dams in streams and wetlands, kick-starting natural cycles of recovery. These structures require minimal permitting, can be built quickly by hand without heavy equipment, use locally sourced materials, and can be installed by local workers who do not need extensive training. The end result creates surprisingly effective outcomes that can be scaled quickly across vast stretches of the West.

We recorded this conversation the day after Colorado River Day, which was a fitting time to highlight such an important project and process. We started out by discussing how this project came to be, which involved a significant amount of funding from the Inflation Reduction Act. We discuss how rivers have historically looked in the West versus how they look now, as well as the ecological complexities of riverscapes and riparian corridors.  We then dig into the details of “low-tech process-based restoration”-- timelines, challenges, opportunities, partnerships, and measuring success. We also talk about beavers, shifting cultural norms around conservation, overlaps between forest and riparian restoration, favorite books, and much more.

As you’ll hear, Nancy and Austin provide such an excellent overview of several varieties of low-tech process-based restoration. But for those of you who want to dig deeper into details of the various processes and case studies, they’ve provided me with extensive additional resources that you can access in the episode notes. I’d also encourage you to check out the short film embedded on the episode’s webpage, which will give you a visual overview of the process and its results.

A big thanks to Nancy and Austin for the fun conversation, and thank you for listening.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, header photo © Jeremy Roberts

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Nancy’s intro
• 5:26 - Austin’s intro
• 7:15 - The impact of wet upland meadows on the Colorado River (Nancy)
• 10:00 - How the Inflation Reduction Act has funded TNC’s important partnership work (Nancy)
• 13:30 - Defining the low-tech, process-based, restoration (LTPBR) involved in this project (Austin)
• 16:30 - What meadows have historically looked like in the American West (Austin and Nancy)
• 21:00 - Describing more of the structures TNC uses in this work, like beaver dam analogs (Austin)
• 26:30 - What kind of land TNC does this restoration work on (Austin)
• 29:30 - How long this work takes (Austin and Nancy)
• 33:30 - What success will look like for this work (Nancy)
• 37:30 - How LTPBRs help empower crucial work by being simple
• 40:45 - What could make or break this project (Austin and Nancy) 
• 44:00 - TNC’s ability to balance innovation with responsible stewardship of funding (Nancy)
• 46:30 - Overlaps between river and forest restoration (Austin)
• 50:30 - What would make a good staff member for this work
• 55:45 - Nancy’s book recommendations
• 57:00 - Austin’s book recommendations
• 59:18 - Nancy’s parting words of wisdom
• 1:00:10 - Austin’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Nancy Smith
• Austin Rempel 
• Other approaches to low-tech process-based restoration
• Rob Addington
• Matt Cahill 
• Inflation Reduction Act
• Trout Unlimited
• Wet meadow restoration work
• Examples of LTPBR structures
• A summary of LTPBR work on BLM land
• Beavers’ impacts on wildfire resilience (video)
• The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko
• Water: A Natural History by Alice Outwater
• Eager by Ben Goldfarb

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
• Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Ivy Spohnholz – Climate Solutions, Sustainable Fisheries, and Resilient Communities
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Paige Lewis – Durable Conservation, Collective Action, and Strategic Thinking
• Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
• Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Dr. Alan Townsend is a scientist, author, and Dean of the Franke College of Forestry & Conservation at the University of Montana. His new book is titled This Ordinary Stardust: A Scientist’s Path from Grief to Wonder, and it’s an unbelievably powerful book. It’s the story of Alan’s family being rocked to the core by two unthinkable, back-to-back tragedies– his four-year-old daughter and wife both being diagnosed with brain tumors. 

Alan is a highly trained, Ph.D.-level scientist who spent his entire career using cold hard facts, emotionless inquiry, and academic rigor to try and solve some of the world’s most pressing problems. Yet when faced with a father/husband’s worst nightmare, he was forced to accept that science alone was simply not enough to make it through the gauntlet. I was blown away by Alan’s insightfulness and vulnerability and how he managed to constructively meld science and spirituality to make sense of an unimaginable catastrophe.

Alan was born in Hawaii and grew up in Montana, where he spent much of his youth hunting, fishing, and exploring the West’s wide-open landscapes. His education and career in science allowed him to delve deeper into the natural world, giving him an even more intense respect and appreciation for the beautifully complex biological systems that make our world work. He’s worked in Amazonian forests and Costa Rican jungles, and he’s published more than 140 peer-reviewed articles. But, as you’ll hear in this conversation, Alan also embraces the more ethereal and unknown aspects of our existence, and he has a gift for discussing and writing about them in a very powerful and helpful manner.

We met up at Alan’s office at the University of Montana, and had a very meaningful conversation about grief, curiosity, generosity, open-mindedness, focus, and family. We discussed Alan’s upbringing in Montana, his path to becoming such a highly trained scientist, and his process of re-evaluating the limits and usefulness of science in the face of tragedy. We talked a lot about his late wife Diana and her unbelievable toughness and his daughter Neva, who thankfully beat the tumor and is now a happy and healthy young lady. We discussed the compassion and skill of medical professionals, Alan’s years-long process of writing the book, and the indispensable role of his agent and editor. Alan also offers some wise, hard-earned wisdom for anyone who may be going through their own set of challenges.

I loved this conversation, I loved the book, and I really appreciate Alan taking the time to talk with me. Be sure to click through the link in the notes to grab your own copy of This Ordinary Stardust. Enjoy!

---
Photos courtesy of Alan Townsend

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:10 - An introduction to the power of Alan’s book
• 6:10 - The importance of focus in Alan’s book, and the strength of Alan’s wife and daughter
• 10:40 - Discussing Alan’s writing
• 13:40 - Alan’s birth and early childhood in Hawaii
• 15:30 - When science became a focus for Alan
• 17:00 - Alan’s reading choices
• 18:45 - When Alan found out his daughter Neva had a brain tumor
• 21:00 - How Alan got through this incredibly challenging period in his life
• 23:15 - The importance of routine for finding mental stability and peace in difficult times
• 25:15 - The power of curiosity in Alan and his wife, Diana’s, life after Diana was diagnosed with brain cancer
• 27:45 - The difference between people who are curious when it is easy to do so and those who remain curious when life becomes difficult
• 30:15 - Why Alan reevaluated his relationship with science, and how he challenges readers to do a similar reevaluation in his book
• 37:15 - How we share more than we don’t, regardless of political belief
• 39:15 - How Diana invited Michael Brown into their home to learn more about his work with FEMA, demonstrating the importance of respecting and learning from people with different opinions
• 45:00 - Unpacking the theme of generosity in Alan’s book
• 47:45 - How Alan handled vulnerability and the desire for this book to have impact
• 49:45 - Alan’s relationship with his agent and editor
• 52:15 - Discussing Doctor Henry Freedman
• 56:00 - Alan’s take on how doctors dealing with mortality are able to handle the difficulties of that subject on a daily basis
• 58:15 - Alan’s work right now
• 1:01:30 - The next 5-10 years for Alan
• 1:02:45 - Of generosity, curiosity, and the willingness to fail
• 1:03:45 - Alan’s book recommendations
• 1:08:00 - Alan’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• This Ordinary Stardust by Alan Townsend
• Doctor Henry Friedman 
• John Krakauer
• Underland by Robert MacFarlane
• The Overstory by Richard Powers
• Katherine Hayhoe
• Micheal Brown
• Jesse Helms
• Anna Sproul-Latimer
• Maddie Caldwell
• W.A. Franke College of Forestry and Conservation
• Yemi Mobolade
• Peter Heller
• Body of Water by Chris Dombroski
• True West by Betsy Gaines Quammen
• Whiskey When We’re Dry by John Larison
• A Responsibility to Awe by Rebecca Elson
• In Old Sky by Lauren Camp

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Chris Dombrowski, Part 2 – “The River You Touch”
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then you’ll definitely remember Pete McBride. He’s a renowned photographer, filmmaker, and author, and he’s joined me on the podcast twice before– once to discuss his epic hike of the length of the Grand Canyon, and then to chat about his global search for silence in a very loud world. I’m glad to say that he’s back again, and this time, we’re chatting about his backyard river– the mighty Colorado– and the challenges, opportunities, and realities facing the people and wildlife that depend on it.

Pete’s newest book is titled The Colorado River: Chasing Water, and it features Pete’s stunning photography and insightful essays, along with a foreword by Nick Paumgarten and an introduction by Kevin Fedarko. The book follows the Colorado River from its headwaters in the Rocky Mountains all the way down to the Colorado River Delta, where it peters out just before reaching the Gulf of California. 

I’ve read a lot of books about the Colorado River and water in the West, but Chasing Water opened my eyes to a number of very specific and sometimes-maddening challenges facing the Colorado River Basin. The book delves into issues such as the unchecked exportation of water-intensive alfalfa to foreign countries, how dust leads to increased evaporation and water loss, as well as more optimistic topics, such as how Las Vegas has become an imperfect-yet-inspiring case study in responsible water conservation. But at its core, the book demonstrates Pete’s deep love and respect for the Colorado River, and showcases his two decades of dedication to telling the story of this world-famous waterway.

We met up at Pete’s house in Basalt, overlooking the Roaring Fork River, and talked about all things water and conservation. We started by talking about Pete’s father, and how his advice many years ago led Pete to shift his focus from global adventure photography to the Colorado River. We discussed the disconnect between people and their water sources, the challenge of using an over-appropriated water source to grow food for an entire country, Pete’s firsthand experience observing changes in the river and surrounding landscape, his work with Indigenous communities throughout the basin, and his preferences between photography, filmmaking, and writing. We also discuss some of his recent favorite books, and much, much more.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed and links to all of Pete’s books.

A big thanks to Pete for graciously letting me barge into his house and hassle him with questions yet again, and thank you for listening.

---
Photos courtesy of Pete McBride

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - All the places Pete has seen in the Colorado River watershed
• 6:30 - How Pete’s dad influenced Pete’s career 
• 11:30 - The immense changes to the Colorado River over the course of Pete’s father’s lifetime
• 13:00 - Reconciling how much of the West’s water comes from the Colorado, and how few people know it 
• 14:30 - Pete’s hope for his new book
• 18:00 - Pete’s style of writing for this visual book 
• 21:00 - Discussing how much Colorado River water goes to cattle and cattle feed, and the water challenges that face agriculture
• 29:00 - The impact of dust on Rocky Mountain snow, and how that impacts the Colorado River
• 34:30 - Highlighting an unexpected water conservation success story: Las Vegas, and how southwestern cities can start conserving their water. 
• 39:00 - How many times Colorado River water has been reused along its trek to Mexico, and discussing the state of the Colorado River Delta
• 44:45 - How Peter wants to divide his time between books and films, and a discussion about “earning” hope
• 53:00 - Pete’s work with Indigenous communities’ access to Colorado River Water
• 1:01:00 - Pete’s book recommendations

Information Referenced:

• Pete McBride
• Pete’s earlier Mountain & Prairie appearances
  • A Passion for Water & Wild Places
  • Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
• The Colorado River: Chasing Water by Pete McBride
• Seeing Silence: The Beauty of the World’s Quietest Places by Pete McBride
• The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim by Pete McBride
• Into the Grand Canyon documentary
• Hampton Sides
• Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
• The Wide, Wide Sea by Hampton Sides
• Taylor Hawes
• Maroon Bells
• Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station
• Nick Paumgarten
• Kris Thompkins
• A Walk in the Park by Kevin Fedarko
• San Juan River
• Little Colorado River
• Havasupai Tribe

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Taylor Hawes – Innovative Conservation in the Colorado River Basin
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Hampton Sides Returns: The Wild and Tragic Tale of Captain James Cook
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Peter Gower is the Nature Conservancy’s Climate and Renewable Energy Program Director for the Western United States and Canada Divisions, and Chris Menges is the Director of Climate Action for the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy. Both Peter and Chris are on the front lines of North America’s transition from fossil fuels to renewables, working to find solutions that protect and benefit working lands, natural landscapes, wildlife, and communities.

As you’ll hear in this episode, the transition from fossil fuels to renewables is an incredibly complex process, and Peter and Chris are highly skilled at breaking down the issues and explaining them in a substantive yet easy-to-understand manner. While the details of their work may be complicated, everything Peter and Chris do is built on the very simple foundation of strong relationships, partnerships, and trust, which has been the common theme of all of these TNC-focused episodes.

We connected virtually and had a great conversation about The Nature Conservancy’s work in the renewables space, exploring everything from TNC’s big-picture strategies in the American West, down to a few on-the-ground examples of successful initiatives and projects. We discussed how TNC is working with Western states to help them achieve their energy goals and some of the specific renewable work being done here in Colorado.

We also talked about the challenges of finding sites for renewable energy projects, how market incentives can be used to ensure siting that benefits both people and nature, and recently passed legislation in Colorado that addresses these issues. We chatted about TNC’s extensive research in the renewables space, including its Power of Place studies. As usual, we discuss their favorite books and some resources to learn more about the issues surrounding renewable energy.  

Renewable energy has long been one of those topics that I have never been able to fully wrap my head around, but after this conversation, I felt that I had a solid foundation of knowledge– as well as the curiosity and desire to go out and learn more.

A huge thanks to Peter and Chris for devoting the time to have this extremely educational conversation, and thank you for listening.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:20 - The state of renewables in the West (Peter)
• 8:05 - Chris’s renewable work on the ground in CO with TNC (Chris)
• 12:35- Challenges and opportunities associated with finding physical sites for renewable projects (Chris)
• 15:50 - Examples of market incentives that Chris thinks would help develop renewable sites to the benefit of as many interests as possible (Chris and Peter) 
• 22:20 - Discussing the Power of Place studies (Peter)
• 26:35 - Other major challenges to implementing more renewable energy solutions (Peter)
• 33:05 - Discussing the Connected West study, to be released soon (Peter)
• 36:20 - Building relationships with businesses and large entities (Peter)
• 39:05 - Discussing Colorado SB24-212 (Chris)
• 47:35 - Developing renewable energy sites on “brownfields” (Peter)
• 51:05 - Where to learn more about renewable energy (Peter and Chris)

Information Referenced:

• Peter Gower
• Chris Menges
• TNC’s energy work
• Bill Ritter
• Site Renewables Right tool
• Power of Place West Report
• GridLab 
• Gridworks  
• Matt Moorhead
• CO SB24-212
• Brunot Agreement Area
• Renewable energy development on “brownfields”
• The EPA’s Repowering Program
• TNC’s Starfire Project
• BrightNight
• Rivian
• A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson
• Collapse by Jared Diamond
• The Ezra Klein Show
• Political Climate Podcast

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Carrie Segil & Duncan Gilchrist – Catalyzing Conservation in Colorado and Beyond
• Ivy Spohnholz – Climate Solutions, Sustainable Fisheries, and Resilient Communities
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
• Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Beatriz Soto is the Director of Protégete, a statewide program from Conservation Colorado, whose mission is to elevate Latino-driven solutions to protect our lands, water, air, and fight for environmental and climate justice. Prior to joining Conservation Colorado, she held a number of leadership and founding positions with conservation-focused organizations here in Colorado. At her core, Beatriz is a gifted and highly effective leader, one who combines her professional expertise with her unique personal story to act as a cultural bridge and give voices to both underrepresented communities and the threatened lands and waters of the West.

Beatriz is originally from Chihuahua, Mexico, and she spent her childhood and youth in a bicultural setting between Mexico and the United States. She graduated from Colorado’s Basalt High School, and then went on to study architecture back in Chihuahua City, Mexico. For nearly 20 years, she applied her talents in architecture and design to a wide range of projects, from Net-Zero affordable housing projects to high-performance strawbale homes and everything in between, in locations ranging from the Pacific Coast of Mexico to Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley. But as you’ll hear in the conversation, she eventually realized that she wanted to work more directly on issues including conservation and community vitality, so she pivoted and began her new career as a conservation leader in Colorado.

Beatriz and I connected virtually and had an inspirational and instructive conversation about her amazing life story and her present-day conservation work. We talked about her bicultural upbringing between Mexico and the US, and the realities of growing up as an undocumented child. We discussed her family’s emphasis on service and community, and how those values have expressed themselves throughout her career. We talk about the uncertainty that accompanied her transition from a career in architecture to a career in conservation and advocacy, and why she decided to apply her talents to the mission of Conservation Colorado. We discuss the mind-boggling process of becoming an American citizen, how she builds trust with community stakeholders, her favorite books, and much more. Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we covered.

A huge thank you to Beatriz for taking the time to share her wisdom, and thank you for listening.

Photos courtesy of Beatriz Soto.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.

To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.

Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.

To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Beatriz’s childhood
• 5:30- What brought Beatriz and her family from Mexico to the US
• 8:30 - Reflecting on adaptation within Beatriz’s very mobile childhood
• 11:30 - Whether or not looking back on the US from Mexico changed Beatriz’s outlook on the US
• 14:00 - Beatriz’s experience growing up undocumented, and how that affected her upbringing
• 17:45 - Where Beatriz’s commitment to service comes from
• 22:45 - The importance of community
• 24:15 - Beatriz’s goals in college
• 26:30 - Beatriz’s work in design and architecture
• 33:00 - Beatriz’s shift away from design and architecture, and the fear that comes with transitions like that
• 36:30 - How long it took Beatriz to feel like it was the right move to shift from professional architecture to conservation work
• 39:30 - When Conservation Colorado came into Beatriz’s world
• 43:15 - Beatriz’s day-to-day work with Conservation Colorado
• 48:30 - Whether or not leaders and stakeholders are happy to hear from Beatriz and her team
• 51:15 - How Beatriz handles rejections from potential partners
• 53:30 - Discussing the Colorado Latino Justice Handbook
• 1:00:00 - What is next for Beatriz
• 1:02:45 - How Beatriz became a documented American
• 1:04:30 - Discussing how to simplify an overcomplicated immigration process
• 1:08:45 - Beatriz’s book recommendations
• 1:11:15 - Beatriz’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Beatriz Soto
• Conservation Colorado
• Protégete
• Roaring Fork Valley
• The Wilderness Workshop
• Garfield County
• 501(c)(3) vs 501(c)(4) 
• Colorado Latino Climate Justice Policy Handbook
• DACA
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz 
• Billionaire Wilderness by Justin Farrell 
• Black Earth Wisdom by Leah Penniman
• Emergent Strategy by adrienne maree brown

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• Chris Hawkins – Using Nature to Build Healthier & More Equitable Communities
• Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Equitable Access to the Outdoors in Texas
• Betsy Gaines Quammen – A Fascinating History of Public Lands in the West

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

This is a special episode recorded live in Bozeman at the premiere of the important new short film titled Good Fire, Bad Fire: Inside the Race to Restore America’s Forests. 

On the evening of May 16, 2024, around 200 folks gathered at Bozeman’s Museum of the Rockies to watch the 15-minute film, which captures the breathtaking beauty of our nation’s forests and delves into the urgent crisis threatening their existence. Following the screening, I moderated a panel discussion featuring an extremely impressive line-up of some of the nation’s leading conservationists and forest-health experts. The on-stage conversation gave us the opportunity to dig deeper into some of the issues raised by the film, and glean valuable insights into the importance of responsible forest management from ecological, recreational, economic, and policy perspectives.

Good Fire, Bad Fire was directed by filmmaker Eric Ian, and produced by the team at the Property and Environment Research Center, better known as PERC, who also hosted the event.  The panelists you’ll hear in this episode are: 

• Brian Ferebee, Chief Executive of Intergovernmental Relations for the U.S. Forest Service
• Randy Newberg, renowned conservationist and Host of Fresh Tracks with Randy Newberg and Hunt Talk Radio
• Morgan Varner, Director of Fire Research at Tall Timbers
• Corey Lewellen, District Ranger for the Bozeman Ranger District
• Hannah Downey, Policy Director at PERC
• Brian Yablonski, CEO of PERC (and a past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest)

I could’ve spoken with each of these experts individually for several hours, but having them all share a stage and combine their wide range of expertise into a single conversation was a powerfully educational experience. 

While you can listen to this episode on its own, I would strongly encourage you to first spend 15 minutes watching Good Fire, Bad Fire as a primer.

I’d also encourage you to check out the episode notes below for a full list of all of the topics we discussed, which included everything from a history of fire as a resource management tool to the Forest Service’s evolving approach to wildfires and forest health. We talked about forest health’s impact on hunting and fishing, the pros and cons of policies such as the ESA and NEPA, on-the-ground success stories, optimistic good news about the future of forest health, and much more. There were tons of resources mentioned, all of which are listed and linked below.

A huge thanks to Brian Yablonski and the team at PERC for creating such an important film and for inviting me to participate in such an enlightening conversation. I hope you enjoy the film as much as I did, and I hope that this discussion provides some new insights into the all-important issue of forest health in the American West.

PHOTO GALLERY

All photos courtesy of PERC

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:15 - Introductions 
• 6:15 - Where the USFS stands right now on its approach to wildfire and forest health (Brian F)
• 8:45 - A hunter and public lands advocate’s perspective on the state of the forests (Randy)
• 10:30 - A brief history of how fire became a resource management tool in the US and before the US (Morgan)
• 13:45 - Discussing obstacles to the forest management work described in Good Fire, Bad Fire (Corey)
• 18:00 - How we can streamline large federal processes like the ESA and NEPA (Hannah)
• 21:00 - Why PERC became involved in this forestry work (Brian Y)
• 23:15 - What is preventing ideal progress on forest management in Montana (Brian F)
• 27:30 - How Randy would recommend hunters and anglers take action and advocate for forest health
• 31:00 - Discussing how lessons in forest management from the Southeast can impact forestry in MT (Morgan)
• 35:15 - On-the-ground success stories in forest management (Corey)
• 39:45 - An example of fire outpacing procedure, and the impacts that can have (Hannah)
• 41:15 - How discussions of conservation and forestry are received by elected officials (Hannah)
• 43:00 - Predictions for the next five years of forest management (Morgan and Randy)
• 47:15 - Brian Y’s optimistic take on the state of forest stewardship

Information Referenced:

• Brian Ferebee
• Morgan Varner
• Randy Newberg
• Corey Lewellen
• Hannah Downy
• Brian Yablonski
• PERC
• Greater Yellowstone Coalition
• Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
• Good Fire, Bad Fire
• Spotted Owl
• Eric Ian
• Tall Timbers Research Station
• Bobwhite Quail
• Denver Water
• Silverthorne, CO
• Kristine Thompkins
• Washburn Fire
• Mariposa Grove
• National Wild Turkey Federation
• Pheasants Forever
• Good Neighbor Authority

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Live from Maxwell Alexander Gallery
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
• Live with the Cowboy Artists of America
• Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
• Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
• Kelsey Johnson – Chasing Her Artistic Ambitions

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

This is a special Shed Session episode, normally published exclusively for Mountain & Prairie Patreon supporters. In it, I answer the most common question I receive, which is some variation of:

"How do I start a podcast?"

In this episode, I answer that question in excruciating detail, laying out everything I know about it, based on my own bumbling, meandering, eight-year journey through Podcastlandia.

I hope this episode will provide a little bit of actionable guidance that will allow you to put your own unique ideas into the world.

To listen to all past, present, and future Patreon-exclusive episodes, you can sign up at www.mountainandprairie.com/patreon. Memberships start at as little as $2 per month.

Back to the regular episodes next week!!

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 2:15 - Intro
• 6:55 - Disclaimers
• 10:00 - How and why I started Mountain & Prairie
• 22:13 - Intentions
• 28:12 - Getting started + endurance
• 39:25 - Finding your voice, authenticity, and enthusiasm
• 52:55 - Finding your audience
• 1:03:09 - Interview techniques
• 1:08:48 - Finding guests
• 1:11:40 - Dealing with negative feedback
• 1:15:14 - Equipment and editing
• 1:21:38 - Money (least important!)
• 1:25:54 - Further reading

Information Referenced:

• Ed's 2024 Freeflow Course on the Rogue River
• Seth Godin Books: Purple Cow, Tribes, This is Marketing, The Practice
• Steven Pressfield Books: The War of Art, Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh!t
• Originals by Adam Grant
• 1000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly
• Conan interviewing Jack White
• Spreadsheet with all my podcast equipment

To listen to all past, present, and future Patreon-exclusive episodes, you can sign up at www.mountainandprairie.com/patreon. Memberships start at as little as $2 per month.

Dan Stellar is the State Director for the Arizona Chapter of The Nature Conservancy, where he leads the organization’s efforts across a wide range of cutting-edge initiatives, including forest health, water conservation, resilient cities, healthy grasslands, and more. Arizona is one of the nation’s largest and most biodiverse states, which creates a host of extremely unique conservation challenges and opportunities– both in its arid, wide-open landscapes and densely populated urban centers. As you’ll hear, Dan and his team are implementing conservation solutions that not only benefit people and nature specifically in Arizona, but they are also creating actionable conservation frameworks that can be applied all over the American West.

Dan was born and raised on the East Coast, and he has spent his career in the non-profit sector, applying his talents to important issues both domestically and abroad.  He began his tenure at TNC Arizona in 2016, when he assumed the role of Deputy State Director. He quickly fell in love with Arizona and TNC’s critical work in the state, and, in 2020, he assumed the role of State Director. Dan is also a committed endurance athlete, and he’s run a mind-blowing number of marathons and half-marathons. And on top of all of that, he’s a dedicated father, husband, and family man.

Dan and I share so many common interests in conservation, endurance sports, and family, so I was super excited to have the opportunity to learn more about the specifics of his work and his fascinating personal and professional journey. We started the conversation with an overview of what makes Arizona such a unique place from a conservation perspective, then we dug into the details of TNC’s work in forest heath, rivers, aquifers, outdoor recreation, and resilient cities. We talked about some of the lessons he learned from traveling and working internationally, why he chooses to push himself so hard athletically, and how he goes about building such strong relationships with stakeholders, partner organizations, and his TNC team members. Dan is also a voracious reader, so we obviously chatted about books, and he wrapped up the conversation with very wise parting words.

I felt like I’d met a real kindred spirit in Dan, and I greatly appreciate everything that he and his team are doing to make Arizona—and the West—a better place. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy: Header image by Ian Adrian/TNC Photo Contest 2022; headshot by Mark Skalny.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Setting the scene for conservation work in Arizona
• 8:45 - Forest health work in Arizona
• 15:00 - Aligning profit motives with forest health goals
• 22:00 - Whether or not there are down-sides to forest thinning
• 25:15 - Discussing the Verde River
• 31:15 - Discussing the Big Chino Aquifer 
• 35:00 - Collaborating with the Trust for Public Land to build a new park in Arizona
• 39:45 - TNC’s work with cities in Arizona
• 46:00 - Dan’s passion for running, and his attraction to doing hard things
• 50:15 - How Dan fits running into his schedule
• 52:00 - How Dan became interested in conservation
• 57:30 - Dan’s lessons from traveling
• 1:00:00 - Dan’s book recommendations
• 1:04:30 - Dan’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Dan Stellar
• Article about Dan
• The Nature Conservancy in Arizona
  • 2024 Spring Field Notes, TNC AZ
  • 2023 Annual Report, TNC AZ
• Rob Addington
• Verde River
• Taylor Hawes
• Yavapai-Apache Nation
• Big Chino Aquifer
• RCPP Grant
• Del Rio Springs
• Chris Hawkins
• Paige Lewis
• Endurance by Alfred Lansing
• American Icon by Bryce G. Hoffman
• Alan Mulally
• Radical Candor by Kim Scott
• The Imposter Cure by Dr. Jessamy Hibberd
• Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
• Van Jones

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Sarah King – Collaborative Conservation in the American Southwest
• William deBuys – Sage of the Southwest
• Daniela Ibarra-Howell – Healing the Land Holistically
• Shane Doyle – Reverence for the Past, Hope for the Future
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
• Chad Ellis – On Leadership, Building Relationships, and Working for the Greater Good

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Sandy Colhoun is the President of the National Outdoor Leadership School, also known as NOLS. 

Founded in 1965 by legendary mountaineer Paul Petzolt, NOLS is widely considered to be the world’s premier wilderness school, and its mission is “to be the leading source and teacher of wilderness skills and leadership that serve people and the environment.” NOLS operates in many of the world’s wildest outdoor classrooms, and it provides the highest quality instruction in many outdoor skills, including wilderness travel, mountaineering, rock climbing, sea kayaking, and more. But perhaps most importantly, through these outdoor adventures, NOLS students learn the foundational and all-important life skills of leadership, teamwork, humility, and responsibility.  

Sandy was named the seventh President of NOLS in October of 2023, after serving as the interim President and, before that, as a member of the NOLS Board of Trustees. Prior to his work with NOLS, he had spent much of his career in the worlds of education and journalism, most notably leading a $750 million fundraising campaign at Colby College in Maine. Sandy is also a proud graduate of a NOLS Wind River Mountaineering course, and he’s no stranger to hardcore outdoor adventures– he worked as a ski patroller in Park City, climbed in Alaska, Nepal, and Bolivia, and cycled up and over the Himalayas from Tibet to Nepal. As you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s focused, driven, and lots of fun, and he’s s fully committed to leading NOLS into the future.

I’m a proud graduate of a 1999 semester-long NOLS course, which was hands-down one of the most formative and valuable experiences of my entire life. Yes, I learned plenty of outdoor skills that have served me well for nearly 25 years now, but the most important lessons were those that taught me the value of good exhibition behavior, being comfortable in uncomfortable situations, and keeping a positive attitude when life gets difficult. If not for that semester, I highly doubt I would’ve ever moved out west, worked in conservation, or started this podcast. So, I’m obviously a superfan of all things NOLS.

I was so excited to chat with Sandy, and we covered a lot in our hour-long conversation. We discussed the history of NOLS, what separates NOLS from other wilderness schools, risk management, exhibition behavior, expanding one’s comfort zone, a description of the ideal NOLS student, Sandy’s own leadership style, his vision for the future of NOLS, how he will measure success, leaders that Sandy admires, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss.

A huge thank you to Sandy for being so generous with his time and for everything he and the entire team at NOLS do to make the world a better place. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy!

---
All photos by Ruby Jean Photography and courtesy of NOLS

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - A brief history of NOLS
• 8:15 - What sets NOLS apart from other outdoor schools
• 10:30 - Discussing NOLS’ partnerships
• 13:00 - How NOLS manages risk
• 16:30 - The talent of NOLS instructors
• 19:00 - What “expedition behavior” is
• 22:15 - How NOLS recruits students in a world that prioritizes job opportunities and career advancement
• 24:45 - How NOLS expands one’s comfort zone
• 28:45 - The ideal NOLS student
• 30:15 - Determining the next chapter of NOLS in the early 2020s
• 33:30 - Sandy’s career pre-NOLS
• 37:00 - Sandy’s leadership style
• 42:30 - How Sandy got his mind around the task of taking the helm at NOLS
• 46:00 - Measuring future success at NOLS
• 49:00 - Leaders that Sandy admires
• 52:15 - Sandy’s book recommendations
• 58:15 - Sandy’s parting words of wisdom, and how you can support NOLS

Information Referenced:

• Sandy Colhoun
• NOLS
• Paul Petzoldt
• Morehead-Cain Foundation
• Wilderness Risk Management Conference
• Freeflow Institute
• Colby College
• It’s Your Ship by Captain D. Michael Abrashoff
• Jocko Willink
• Good to Great by Jim Collins
• Three Peaks Ranch
• Ian Symmonds
• General George Brown
• Jay Stroud 
• Tabor Academy
• Jimmy Chin
• Stuart Harris
• The Snow Leopard by Peter Matthiessen
• 100 Years of Solitude by Gabrielle Garcia Marquez
• Start with Why by Simon Sinek
• Good to Great by Jim Collins
• Tribe by Sebastian Junger
• Wendell Berry

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
• Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• David Gessner Returns – “A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World”
• Chandra Brown, Part 2 – Teaching & Learning in the West’s Wildest Landscapes
• Mike Foote – Perfection is in the Process
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Kami Bakken is a river guide and outdoor advocate, and she currently serves as the Director of the Freeflow Foundation and Director of Ambassador and Grant Programs for Rivers for Change. A native of Minnesota, Kami headed West for college at Colorado State University, where she earned a degree in Human Dimensions of Natural Resources. Since graduating in 2018, she has been fully focused on helping others explore and appreciate the mountains and rivers of the American West, while also advocating for their protection and conservation.

Kami and I met in 2023 when she was the facilitator on my Green River Freeflow Institute workshop through Dinosaur National Monument and the Gates of Lodore. During our weeks of preparation for the course and our five days on the river, I was so impressed by her expertise in outdoor education and river travel and, perhaps more importantly, by her ability to connect with a wide range of people in a sometimes-intense wilderness setting. She’s humble yet confident, earnest yet hilarious, and I credit her with so much of the success of that workshop.

When I was in my late 20s and deep in a traditional career in the real estate business, I dreamed of having a life and career like Kami’s– one that combined adventure and wide-open spaces with purpose-driven work. So I wanted to chat with her in depth to learn more about how she has made it all happen. If, like I was, you are interested in learning the realities of following a non-traditional but deeply fulfilling career in the outdoors, then you’ll definitely learn a lot from Kami.

We met up a few weeks ago at my house in the Springs and had a wide-ranging and funny conversation about her life, career, adventures, and crazy misadventures. We talked about what drew her to Colorado for college, and some of the challenges of adjusting to such a new place and environment where she didn’t know anyone. We discussed some of her wild experiences traveling in the West and internationally– including a few run-ins with cult-like groups– and how she took the leap to become a sea kayaking guide and eventually a western river guide. We talk a lot about her commitment to pushing outside of her comfort zone, overcoming fear and discomfort, and why she’s drawn to conservation work. We also discuss the financial realities of seasonal work, how her non-profit work compliments her guiding work, her career plans for the future, and her roles with the Freeflow Institute and Foundation.

And it’s worth noting that Kami and I will be heading out on the river again this summer for another Freeflow workshop, this time on Oregon’s Wild & Scenic Rogue River– August 15th through 20th. As of this recording, there are still a few spots left, so you can follow the link to learn more about the workshop and apply. As of this moment, you can use the secret code “ED200” to get $200 off of the tuition.

A huge thanks to Kami for agreeing to let me ask her a bunch of weird questions and, most importantly, for all of her leadership and support on our river trips. Enjoy!

---
All photos courtesy of Kami Bakken

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Where Kami is from
• 5:00 - Why Kami went to Colorado State, and how her family felt about that decision
• 9:00 - How her early experience in Colorado led her to WWOOF (and apparently a couple of cults)
• 15:30 - Kami’s return to CSU, and her entry into the world of outdoor recreation
• 19:30 - Kami’s travel adventures post-graduation
• 22:00 - Kami’s time with Protect Our Winters
• 24:15 - Kami’s transition to professional guiding
• 27:45 - Where Kami’s desire for connection and impact led her career next
• 31:45 - What Kami’s friends from college were doing while she was raft guiding, and whether or not she has ever questioned her career path
• 33:30 - Exploring the difference between contentment and happiness, and some more details about the outdoor education and rafting nonprofit that Kami worked for
• 37:15 - Kami’s transition to the Freeflow Foundation
• 44:00 - Discussing the Freeflow Foundation
• 45:45 - Balancing safety with growth driven by risk
• 50:00 - The trip that Ed and Kami did together on the Green River
• 54:45 - What makes for a good outdoor guide, and what makes for a bad one
• 59:00 - Who Kami admires 
• 1:03:00 - Kami’s next steps
• 1:05:45 - What worries Kami
• 1:09:00 - Kami’s book recommendations
• 1:10:30 - Kami’s advice for those who want to try a new lifestyle or career

Information Referenced:

• Kami on Instagram and LinkedIn
• Freeflow Institute
• Freeflow Foundation
• Ed’s upcoming 2024 Freeflow Program on the Rogue River
• Randolph, MN
• WWOOF
• Jenna Pollard
• Jesus Ranch by Tenacious D
• Protect Our Winters
• Channel Islands
• Kristine Tompkins
• Tribe by Sebastian Junger
• Canyonlands Field Institute
• Chandra Brown
• Chris La Tray
• David James Duncan
• American Whitewater
• American Rivers
• American Prairie 
• NRS
• Dinosaur River Expeditions
• Oma plata
• Kate Bollen
• Lindsay Bourgoine
• Canyons River Company
• Brook Hess
• Katie Lee
• Secret Knowledge of Water by Craig Childs
• The BFG by Roald Dahl
• The Desert Oracle by Ken Layne

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Chandra Brown, Part 2 – Teaching & Learning in the West’s Wildest Landscapes
• Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Christy Sing Robertson – On Grit, Hard Work, & Going All In
• Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
• Amber Smith – Creating Connection & Community

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Hampton Sides is a Santa Fe-based historian and bestselling author who has written many books that are favorites of Mountain & Prairie listeners, including Blood and Thunder, On Desperate Ground, and Ghost Soldiers. His newest book is The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook, which is available now and sitting high on the New York Times bestseller list. If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then I’m sure you’re glad to see that Hampton has joined me for yet another podcast conversation.

Much of Captain Cook’s epic third voyage takes place far from the mountains and prairies of the American West, in tropical paradises including Tahiti and Hawaii. But what you may not realize, is that a big portion of his final voyage was spent exploring and mapping the west coast of North America, from the rocky shores of present-day Oregon and Washington, all the way up to Alaska. While I was somewhat familiar with Cook and his explorations, I didn’t fully understand or appreciate the mind-blowing scale of his journeys or his impact on world history.

As is the case with all of Hampton’s books, he melds together deep and extensive research with thrilling storytelling to make the process of understanding history as entertaining as it is educational. While Cook is obviously a central figure in The Wide Wide Sea, the book also profiles numerous fascinating Polynesian and Indigenous historical figures, including the Tahitian man named Mai, whom Hampton and I discussed at length in our September 2021 episode. If you haven’t already listened to that episode, I’d encourage you to do so when you’re done with this one.

Hampton and I met up here in Colorado Springs, one of many stops on his book tour for The Wide Wide Sea. As usual, we had a fun and at times very funny conversation about history, his research and writing process, and all things Captain Cook. We started out discussing why Hampton is drawn to write about controversial historical figures, and we talked at length about how he combined historical accounts from Europeans with those from the Indigenous communities that Cook visited. We talked about the mystery of Cook’s dramatic personality change, how Cook’s arrival disrupted the equilibrium of Polynesian cultures, Cook’s leadership style both before and after his personality change, how Hampton organized such massive amounts of research, and how and why he works so hard to get his books into the world. He also gives a sneak peek into his next book, which will based here in Colorado and explores one of the West’s most notorious massacres.

A huge thank you to Hampton for taking time out of his busy schedule to chat with me again, and thank you for listening. Enjoy!

---
All photos courtesy of Hampton Sides

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 7:00 - Why write about Captain Cook
• 10:45 - Captain Cook, pre-1776
• 16:45 - Cook’s ship
• 21:15 - Exploring Cook’s mental health
• 25:30 - Exploring humans’ predisposition towards greed
• 29:30 - The importance of doing boots-on-the-ground research for history
• 32:00 - How Cook kept scurvy at bay
• 34:30 - Hampton’s biggest unexpected discovery while writing The Wide Wide Sea
• 38:00 - Whether or not Hampton experienced apprehensions about telling the story of a complicated person like Cook
• 42:00 - Discussing the circumstances that led to Cook’s death
• 45:45 - Discussing some of Cook’s personality traits and cultural differences between Cook and the Māori 
• 49:30 - How Hampton organizes his quotes for writing
• 53:45 - How Hampton actually sells his books
• 58:00 - Hampton’s plans for the future

Information Referenced:

• The Wide Wide Sea by Hampton Sides
• Hampton’s episode discussing Mai
• Hampton’s second M&P episode
• Hampton and Ed live at the Aspen Institute
• Captain James Cook
• Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
• Joseph Banks
• Sciatica
• Kerguelen Islands
• Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides
• Ernest Shackelton
• The Wager by David Grann
• John Milton Chivington
• The Sand Creek Massacre
• Silas Soule

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Peter Stark – Tales of Adventure, Exploration, & Epic Battles
• Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
• Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Celene Hawkins is the Colorado River Tribal Water Partnerships Program Director for the Nature Conservancy, and Izabella Ruffino is the Tribal and Indigenous Engagement Program Manager for the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy. Both Celene and Izabella use their skills to advance and support tribal-led land and water conservation work throughout the American West.  

Most of Celene’s work is centered around the Colorado River Basin, and she has played an integral role in many cutting-edge water conservation projects that have sought out Tribal voices and Indigenous perspectives to create some of the West’s most effective and equitable solutions to complex water challenges. Perhaps most notably, she worked with the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and her colleagues at TNC to create a first-of-its-kind water agreement that was a true win-win for nature and people.

Izabella’s work builds on TNC’s strong foundation of partnerships with Tribal Nations for land and water issues, and she is also focused on expanding Tribal and Indigenous engagement into all aspects of TNC’s wide-ranging conservation work. Additionally, she is responsible for internal efforts to fortify organizational cultural awareness and humility within TNC’s Colorado Chapter. As you’ll hear, Izabella is doing everything from leading internal educational initiatives to working with wide-ranging stakeholder groups on projects such as determining the best uses for TNC-owned land and preserves.

In this episode, we dig into the details of many of their specific projects and initiatives, but we also talk more broadly about the importance of seeking out Indigenous perspectives to help guide TNC’s critical conservation work worldwide. They both offer plentiful resources– online courses, books, podcasts, essays, and more– that will help me (and you, the listener!) better understand the importance of bringing together diverse perspectives to guide the next chapter of conversation work in the West and beyond.

Celene and Izabella mention so many excellent books, people, and resources, so don’t forget to check out the episode notes for links to everything. A big thanks to them both for such a fun, inspiring, and educational conversation. I hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy: Header © Roberto Rosales; headshots from Celene and Izabella.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Introductions
• 8:30 - The win-win partnership between the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and TNC
• 14:00- Challenges and opportunities related to putting together the partnership deal
• 19:00 - Benefits to all parties as a result of the deal
• 21:30 - Positive ripple effects resulting from the partnership
• 24:15 - TNC’s strategies for managing its preserves, including the Medano Zapata Ranch
• 29:15- The process of gathering Indigenous and local perspectives
• 32:00 - Strategies, tactics, and frameworks for building cross-cultural relationships
• 36:30 - Balancing the time it takes to build solid relationships with the reality that “time is of the essence”
• 40:30 - Upcoming exciting projects
• 44:30 - Resources for further learning
• 50:30 - Why they each chose to apply their talents, skills, and careers to the cause of conservation
• 55:30 - Heroes and mentors
• 1:05:00 - Favorite books
• 1:11:00 - Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Celene Hawkins
• Izabella Ruffino
• Taylor Hawes episode
• A Win-Win-Win Solution for the Colorado River
• Jicarilla Apache Nation
• Strategic Water Reserve tool
• Medano Zapata Ranch
• Keystone Policy Center
• Voice, Choice, and Action Framework
• Water and Tribes Initiative
• Indian Country 101 training
• Whitener Group
• All My Relations podcast
• Inhabitants film
• Turtle Talk
• This Land podcast
• The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Quincy Library Group
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Charles Wilkinson 
• Sara Krakoff
• Ten Tribes Partnership
• Regina Lopez Whiteskunk
• Lorelei Cloud
• Colorado Water Conservation Board
• Return the National Parks to the Tribes by David Treuer
• Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollen
• This is Your Mind on Plants by Michael Pollen
• The Secret Network of Nature by Peter Wohlleben
• The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben
• An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
• As Long as the Grass Grows by Dina Gilio-Whitaker
• Fresh Banana Leaves by Jessica Hernandez
• The Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey
• Doug Peacock

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Equitable Access to the Outdoors in Texas
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Shane Doyle – Reverence for the Past, Hope for the Future
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Kristine Tompkins is an iconic conservationist, the president and co-founder of Tompkins Conservation, and the former CEO of Patagonia. For three decades, she has committed to protecting and restoring wild beauty and biodiversity by creating national parks, restoring wildlife, inspiring activism, and fostering economic vitality through conservation.

Kristine and her late husband Douglas Tompkins have protected approximately 14.8 million acres of parklands in Chile and Argentina through Tompkins Conservation and its partners, making them among the most successful national park-oriented philanthropists in history. To give you a frame of reference for exactly how much land 14.8 million acres is, Yellowstone National Park is just over 2.2 million acres– so the scale and scope of Tompkins Conservation’s impact is truly mind-blowing.

Kristine’s amazing life story was beautifully told in the 2023 feature-length documentary Wild Life, which I highly recommend and can be streamed on Disney+. She was also awarded the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy, and she recently gave her second TED talk, which will be released in the coming weeks. She’s been featured by pretty much every media outlet you could imagine, so I was honored that she took time out of her very full schedule to chat with me.

Tompkins Conservation has published multiple books about its groundbreaking conservation work in South America. The most recent book is titled Patagonia National Park Chile, which tells the story of the park’s transformation from a former sheep ranch into one of the crown jewels of Chile’s National Park system. Featuring stunning photography by Linde Waidhofer and essays by Kristine, the former President of Chile Michelle Bachelet, Yvon Chouinard, and many others, the coffee-table style book is equal parts inspiring and educational. It’s the kind of book that you’d proudly display on your shelf and find yourself revisiting for years to come.

I met up with Kristine at her California home, and we had a fun and fascinating conversation about everything from the book to leadership to the growth and evolution of Tompkins Conservation. We discussed optimism and pessimism, the difference between contentment and happiness, the importance of having a relentless work ethic, living an extreme life, and operating as if you have nothing to lose. We also talked in detail about the challenges of creating Patagonia National Park, balancing rewilding efforts with the need for economic vitality, and how the conservation lessons learned in South America can be applied to conservation efforts here in the American West. There are even a few brief appearances by her two very sweet pups who sat with us during our conversation, so all of you dog lovers will surely enjoy hearing from them.

Patagonia National Park Chile is available right now at Patagonia.com and available for pre-order wherever you get your books. Follow the links in the episode notes to learn more.

A huge thank you to Kristine for inviting me into her home and being so gracious and generous with her time. And another huge thanks to the teams at Tompkins Conservation and Patagonia Books for the opportunity. Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy.

---
All photos courtesy of Patagonia. Header photo credit: Nicolas Piwonka; Headshot photo credit: Adam Amengual

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:40 - Why Kris keeps coming back to books
• 7:30 - Who is Arnie Næss
• 13:45 - Discussing leadership, giving credit, and other behaviors key to Kris’s success
• 18:40 - Happiness vs contentment
• 21:30 - Discussing Valle Chacabuco
• 25:45 - Establishing local buy-in as a conservation entity not local to Chile
• 30:30 - How the Tompkins managed livestock on the Valle Chacabuco
• 32:15 - The speed at which settlers spread to Chile
• 34:15 - Whether Kris is an optimist or pessimist 
• 36:00 - Who in the new generation gives Kris hope, and what Kris thinks about “hope”
• 40:45 - Kris’s view on taking action
• 44:30 - How Kris prioritizes her efforts
• 49:45 - What Kris has learned in South America that is applicable to the North American West
• 52:15 - Business’s impact on Kris and Doug’s conservation work ethic
• 53:45 - Kris’s favorite failure and lessons learned
• 59:45 - Kris’s life of extremes and passion for service
• 1:05:45 - Kris’s book recommendations
• 1:15:45 - The land trust movement in the US, and the American grasslands

Information Referenced:

• Kristine Tompkins
• Tompkins Conservation
• Rewilding Chile
• Rewilding Argentina
• Douglas Tompkins
• Patagonia National Park
• Vincent Stanley
• The new book, Patagonia National Park
• Arne Næss
• Spinozism
• The Wolf in the Parlor by Jon Franklin
• Sigmund Kvaløy Setreng
• Yvon Chouinard
• Valle Chacabuco
• The Nature Conservancy
• Tierra del Fuego
• Doug Peacock
• Greta Thunberg
• Tapir
• Pete McBride
• Hampton Sides
• Endurance by Alfred Lansing
• James Baldwin
• Genghis Khan
• Napoleon Bonaparte
• The Sea People by Christina Thompson
• The Wager by David Grann
• Sir Francis Drake
• Strait of Magellan 
• Douglas Brinkley
• Silent Spring Revolution by Douglas Brinkley
• James Prosek
• Carlos Fernandez

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagonia’s First Fifty Years
• Dylan Tomine – Protecting What He Loves
• Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Logan Maxwell Hagege is an Ojai, CA-based contemporary artist with modern visions of the American West. Logan is no stranger to longtime Mountain & Prairie listeners—he first joined me on the podcast back in 2019, and he made another appearance in 2022 alongside several other renowned Western artists in an episode recorded live at Maxwell Alexander Gallery’s 10th-anniversary exhibition. In this episode, I reconnected with Logan at his Ojai studio, and we caught up on a long list of fascinating topics, including his upcoming exhibition at the Gerald Peters Gallery in New York City titled Flowers Will Grow.

Since our first podcast conversation, Logan’s artistic career has continued to skyrocket, and his work has earned the acclaim of a growing number of collectors, critics, and journalists. Most recently, his painting titled “Time and Space” won Best in Show at the Autry’s Masters of the American West show. He’s also been featured in all corners of the Western art world, including a recent spread in Western Art and Architecture and collaborations with well-known brands such as Stetson and Pendleton. But perhaps most impressively, he’s accomplished all of this success while being a deeply committed husband and father of two young children.

As you’ll hear in this conversation, Logan works extremely hard and is fully committed to exploring new realms of his artistic interests, but he brings balance and calmness to what could easily become an all-consuming obsession. I caught Logan just as he was wrapping up all the final details for his upcoming show, and we had a fun discussion about a wide range of topics, including: The intensity of preparing for a show, accepting the judgment that comes with showing art, his practice of constant doodling, how living in Ojai has changed his approach, the importance of self-talk, Georgia O’Keefe, the idea that perfection is boring, the need for action, and much more. Check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything.

And if you happen to be in New York, the Flowers Will Grow exhibition will open with a reception with Logan on Thursday evening, April 18, 2024, and will be on display through May 23rd.

A huge thanks to Logan for letting me barge into his studio during such a busy time and a huge thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!

All photos by Dylan Gordon

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 2:45 - What the hell is happening in Logan’s studio, and his upcoming show in New York
• 5:15 - Why Logan is working with a gallery outside of Maxwell Alexander
• 7:30 - Whether Logan was nervous the last time he showed his art in New York
• 9:00 - The impact of being able to show more examples of an artist’s work
• 11:15 - How periods of intensity and external pressure have shaped Logan’s work
• 12:45 - How Logan’s art has changed since his 2018 show
• 14:30 - What a Logan’s process looks like when there isn’t external pressure from deadlines
• 17:45 - Logan’s doodling process
• 19:45 - The need for action
• 23:30 - How Logan deals with the fact that unique art will be judged
• 27:45 - Discussing perfection and how boring it is
• 28:45 - Who Logan admires
• 31:15 - Discussing Georgia O’Keefe
• 32:45 - Discussing Logan’s life in Ojai
• 40:00 - The importance of retreat for Logan’s art
• 42:00 - The impact of self-talk
• 44:30 - Discussing the new gallery
• 47:45 - Logan’s book and artist recommendations

Information Referenced:

• Logan Maxwell Hagege
• Logan’s first M&P episode
• Live at Maxwell Alexander Gallery
• Hollyhocks
• Maxwell-Alexander Gallery
• Gerald Peters Gallery
• Briscoe Western Art Museum
• Prix de West
• Masters of the American West, Autry Museum
• Georgia O’Keeffe
• Glenn Dean
• Norman Rockwell
• Ojai, CA
• Rick Ridgeway
• Tribe by Sebastian Junger
• Jocko Willink
• David McCullough
• Tim Lawson

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Live at the Amon Carter Museum – In Conversation with James Prosek and Spencer Wigmore
• Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
• David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
• Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
• Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Chris Burkard, Part 2 – Seeking Beauty Through Adventure

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Dr. Emily Howe is an aquatic ecologist with the Washington state chapter of The Nature Conservancy, and she holds a Ph.D. from the School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences at the University of Washington. Her work integrates across ecosystem boundaries, investigating how landscape configuration and management shape cross-boundary relationships for food webs, organisms, and ecosystem processes. 

At the Nature Conservancy, Emily’s projects stretch from the high peaks of the North Cascades all the way down to the estuary of Port Susan Bay, and her work highlights the interconnectedness of everything from snowpack to salmon populations, forest management to marsh grass health. Much of Emily’s work focuses on understanding liminal spaces– areas in nature where boundaries blend together and where the interactions between ecosystems can be fluid and dynamic. 

Since the earliest days of European settlement, this area has been subject to a wide variety of threats to the overall ecosystem—aggressive logging, wildfire suppression, attempts to engineer order into the ever-changing estuaries, and more. And with the intensification of climate change, snowfall and its resulting snowpack have decreased, which only exacerbates the negative effects and threats to the ecosystem.

But thanks to Emily and her team of stakeholders and partners, there are many, many reasons to be optimistic about the future. Combining cutting-edge science with Indigenous knowledge, Emily and TNC are making great progress toward finding solutions that can help with everything from increasing the depth and duration of snowpack in the Cascades to restoring all-important salmon habitat, and much much more.

If you’re a fan of ecology and are interested in how Indigenous wisdom can bolster our 21st-century scientific knowledge, then you’ll love this episode. We start our conversation at sea level, discussing the magic of the tidal ecosystems, then work our way up the into mountains, eventually discussing all things snowpack and forest health.  We talk about TNC’s partnership with the Stilliguamish Tribe, how forest gaps can affect snowpack, snow droughts and El Nino, collaboration with federal agencies, and rising sea levels in the Northwest.  Emily also talks about her career path to becoming a scientist and she offers up some excellent book recommendations.

I love the Pacific Northwest, so I greatly appreciate everything that Emily and her partners are doing to keep this region of the West so wild, special, and healthy.  I hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy and the University of Washington's Snow Project.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:45 - Discussing the history Port Susan Bay Preserve
• 8:15 - The colonial reasons for the “straightening out” of the complex Stille River System
• 11:15 - Why TNC became interested in Port Susan Bay
• 13:15 - Emily’s focus on the Port Susan Bay Preserve
• 17:15 - Emily’s partnership with Tribal entities around Port Susan Bay Preserve
• 21:45 - Where and how TNC partners with the federal government on its work on the coast
• 26:15 - Goals for the Port Susan Bay Preserve
• 32:30 - How fast the sea level is rising in the Port Susan Bay Preserve
• 34:15 - The 2015 Pacific Northwest snow drought
• 38:15 - Emily’s involvement in higher elevation forest management and how it can impact snowpack and water resources
• 45:00 - Putting Emily’s work above to practice
• 52:30 - Emily’s personal journey to this work
• 56:30 - Emily’s book recommendations
• 1:02:00 - Emily’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• TNC Washington
• Port Susan Bay Preserve
• Salish Sea
• Stillaguamish River
• Glacier Peak
• Diatoms
• Macoma
• Snoqualmie Tribe
• Tulalip Tribes
• Dr. Susan Dickerson-Lange 
• Tapash Sustainable Forest Collaborative
• Yakama Nation
• Yakima, WA
• The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
• The Timber Wars
• Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Leah Palmer’s blog post

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Paige Lewis – Durable Conservation, Collective Action, and Strategic Thinking
• Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
• Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Cole Mannix – Building Community through Land Stewardship and Local Food

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Sterling Drake is an award-winning musician whose soulful tunes reflect his deep love of the landscapes, people, and culture of the American West. The media outlet Lonesome Highway probably best described Sterling’s music by calling it a “perfect fusion of western swing, honky-tonk heartache, and dance hall treasures.” But you can’t really confine Sterling’s music to a single, overarching category– his influences range from country to folk to blues [and more], and he’s toured everywhere from rural Montana to the swamps of South Florida to the music epicenter of Nashville, Tennesse. And it’s those wide-ranging experiences and influences that make him such a fascinating and thoughtful character and such a fun person to talk with.

Sterling’s family has roots in the southeastern U.S., and he was born and raised in Florida. Music was always a big part of his life, but his early interests revolved around the hardcore music scene and his love of drumming. Soon after graduating high school, he decided to head out west, where he began a long stretch of working on various ranches in several different states. Over time, his musical focus shifted from the hardcore world into the roots genre, and he began to capture the attention of audiences at bars, rodeos, and everywhere in between. Today, Sterling is a full-time touring musician, and as I record this, he is preparing for his first European tour. In my mind, Sterling is a perfect example of how a person can successfully meld passion, curiosity, hard work, and respect to create an entirely unique brand of art that resonates with a large, thoughtful audience.  

I met Sterling last summer at the 2023 Old Salt Festival in Helmville, Montana, and I was instantly struck by his thoughtfulness, sense of humor, and his desire to contribute to the culture of the American West.  So I was glad to finally connect with him for a podcast episode and have an in-depth conversation about his artistic journey. We started out talking about his upbringing in Florida and why he eventually decided to head west. We discuss his time working on ranches, lessons learned from living and working in Nashville, and why he continues to be drawn to Montana. We discuss his most recent EP titled Jereco Sessions, and why he decided to donate all of the proceeds of that project to the nonprofit Western Landowners Alliance. We also discuss Willie Nelson, books, martial arts, straight-edge culture, travel, and much, much more.

If you want to see Sterling perform in person and have a chance to hang out with him, I’d encourage you to come to this summer’s Old Salt Festival, which is taking place June 21-23 in Helmville, Montana. Both Sterling and I will be there, and we’re both looking forward to what is guaranteed to be an amazing weekend.

Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Sterling Drake

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 5:00 - Sterling’s first memory of music
• 7:45 - Reflecting on Sterling’s childhood in Florida
• 11:00 - How Sterling became interested in the West, and further discussing Sterling’s upbringing
• 14:30 - Sterling’s time in Utah
• 17:30 - Where Sterling’s work ethic comes from
• 20:00 - How music played into Sterling’s early years out West
• 22:00 - A brief discussion of martial arts and its impact on Sterling’s life
• 25:45 - Sterling’s shift into country music
• 28:15 - When Sterling’s country career started to take off
• 33:15 - Sterling’s insider take on the Nashville music industry
• 40:45 - How Sterling became involved with WLA
• 44:15 - Discussing Sterling’s recent/upcoming album cover
• 45:15 - Sterling’s upcoming European tour
• 46:45 - Looking forward to Old Salt Festival
• 52:30 - Where Sterling may eventually choose to settle down
• 54:00 - Sterling’s advice to early career professionals and aspiring artists
• 1:00:30 - Sterling’s book recommendations
• 1:03:45 - Sterling’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Sterling Drake
• Old Salt Festival
• Western Landowners Alliance
• Beau Alexander and Logan Maxwell Hagege 
• Cole Mannix
• Lesli Allison
• Jess Mudgett 
• Chris Burkard
• Kaleo
• Bob Marshall Wilderness
• Ovando, MT
• Helmville, MT
• Nick Offerman
• It’s a Long Story by Willie Nelson
• The Lost Cowboy by J.B. Zielke
• Dusty Vaquero YouTube Channel

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
• Amber Smith – Creating Connection & Community
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Nickolas Butler – The Craft of Creativity
• Rick Wittenbraker – Humility, Generosity, and Building One-of-a-Kind Brands

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Kevin Krasnow is the Conservation Director at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance, a long-standing, highly effective organization whose mission is to “protect the wildlife, wild places, and community character of Jackson Hole.” For more than four decades, the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance has been a staunch advocate for keeping Jackson Hole wild and beautiful, and it has proven to be a nimble and creative protector of the legendary Wyoming valley. The organization has served as a watchdog against poorly planned development, a champion for public land, a community voice that holds elected officials accountable, and much more.

Kevin brings a fascinating and diverse professional background to his work at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance– he’s worked as an Outward Bound instructor, a high school teacher, a college professor, and, most notably, he earned a Ph.D. in Environmental Science, Policy, and Management from the University of California Berkley. Prior to joining the team at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance, he worked for ten years at the Teton Science Schools in Jackson. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Kevin is a high-level expert in forest and wildfire ecology, and he speaks eloquently about the role of wildfires in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and beyond. 

When I first headed out West from North Carolina nearly twenty years ago, I moved to Jackson Hole— and I will always have a tender spot in my heart for that particular area. So I was thrilled to have the opportunity to connect with Kevin and talk about all things related to ecology, wildlife, fire, and conversation in Jackson Hole. We started with a deep dive into Aspen trees, and why they are such an important and unique part of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. We discussed the Yellowstone Fire of 1988 and how that disaster shaped forest management in the future. We discussed the unprecedented development pressure in and around Jackson, how Kevin and his organization collaborate with a wide range of conservation partners, his professional journey from indirect to direct conservation work, and how his career as an educator informs his work today.

If you’ve ever spent time in the Tetons, Yellowstone, or the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, then you’re going to learn a lot from Kevin. Please check out the notes below for a full list of everything we discuss, and I hope you enjoy!

Header photo courtesy of TNC: "Reflective Waters on Jackson Lake." © Andrew Underwood; Headshot courtesy of Kevin Krasnow

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Discussing Aspen trees and how they captured Kevin’s attention
• 9:30 - Threats to Aspen populations
• 13:30 - Looking at the Yellowstone Fire of 1988
• 24:00 - How significantly forestry and attitudes toward fire have changed after the Yellowstone Fire of 1988 
• 28:30 - What brought Kevin to the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance 
• 31:00 - Whether or not COVID has impacted the urgency of JHCA’s work
• 35:15 - What specific problems Kevin works on at JHCA 
• 39:15 - How Kevin and JHCA have collaborated with The Nature Conservancy
• 43:00 - Kevin’s switch from “indirect” conservation to “direct”
• 45:00 - When the outdoors became a part of Kevin’s life
• 47:15 - Kevin’s early career in experiential education, and how it benefits his career now
• 52:30 - Kevin’s words for a young person looking for career advice
• 55:00 - Kevin’s book recommendations
• 58:15 - Kevin’s parting words of wisdom, and how folks can support JHCA

Information Referenced:

• Kevin Krasnow
• Pando Aspen Stand
• Pine beetle
• Yellowstone fires of 1988
• Ponderosa Pine
• The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
• Fire Weather by John Vaillant
• John Vaillant
• Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance
• The Nature Conservancy, Idaho
• The Nature Conservancy, Wyoming
• Teton Area Wildfire Protection Coalition
• Outward Bound
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
• John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
• Christian Beckwith, Part 2 – The Fascinating History of the 10th Mountain Division
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• 50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Mike DeHoff is the Principal Investigator at Returning Rapids Project, a one-of-a-kind initiative that is documenting the recovery of the Colorado River in Cataract Canyon, upper Glen Canyon, and along the San Juan. Back in 1963, the construction of Glen Canyon Dam created Lake Powell, which submerged many of the area’s canyons– turning what were once wild stretches of the Colorado into flat water. Today, the southwest’s ongoing historic drought has caused Lake Powell’s water levels to to drop significantly, revealing historic rapids, recently hidden geologic features, and riparian ecosystems that had been deep underwater for nearly fifty years.  

Returning Rapids began as a personal project for Mike and three of his river-loving friends– Meg Flynn, Peter Lefebvre, and Chris Benson. They began to notice changes in the river created by Lake Powell’s receding waters and started documenting those changes and using historic photographs and documents to better understand the reemerging landscape. Over the years, their work caught the attention of universities, academics, scientists, and government agencies, all of whom were fascinated by what was being discovered deep in those canyons. Fast forward to today, and their work is not only enabling cutting-edge research but also capturing the attention of bigtime media outlets, including a recent feature in Rolling Stone.

Mike connected with me virtually from his home base in Moab, Utah, and we had a fascinating discussion about the Colorado River, Lake Powell, and the history of the Returning Rapids project. We started out with a brief history lesson on the drought’s effect on the Colorado River, then we dug into issues such as the mind-blowing amount of sediment created by Glen Canyon Dam. We discussed when Mike and his partners realized that their personal project was capturing the attention of the public, the challenges of garnering attention for lesser-known places like Cataract Canyon, and the idea of combining Lake Powell and Lake Mead. We also talk a lot about Mike’s personal journey with this project, and how his willingness to follow his curiosity, partner with very smart people, take risks, and work extremely hard has had a significant scientific impact. We also discuss books, his mentors, his desire to learn from everyone he meets, and much more.

A huge thanks to Mike, Meg, Peter, and Chris for their important work, and for providing such a solid example for all of us who feel drawn to make a difference here in the American West. You can support Returning Rapids

Header photo by Travis Custer, photo of Mike and Meg by Elliot Ross, team photo by Cody Cobb

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.

To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.

Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.

To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - The drought of the early 2000s and how it started a 20+ year journey for Mike
• 16:30 - How an entire land mass of Colorado River sediment can be created with no one claiming management or responsibility of it
• 21:30 - When Mike’s project shifted from a personal interest to an interest of the public
• 26:15 - The surprising rate that Lake Powell and Cataract Canyon are capable of recovering
• 34:30 - How Mike garners attention for lesser-known but important places like Cataract Canyon
• 37:15 - Discussing the idea of combining Lake Powell and Lake Meade
• 44:15 - Mike’s advice for people wanting to do something similar to he and his team
• 47:30 - Mike’s powerful appreciation for the people he meets, and his mentors and heroes
• 50:30 - Mike’s book recommendations
• 53:45 - Mike’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• The Returning Rapids Project
• The Returning Rapids Project: Good News From the Beleaguered Colorado River
• Cataract Canyon
• Peter Lefebvre
• Meg Flynn
• Les Jones
• Mike DeHoff’s online presentation
• Encounters With Archdruid by John McPhee
• David Brower
• Floyd Dominy
• Chris Benson 
• Scott Hynek
• Cari Johnson
• Mighty Arrow Family Foundation
• The Interim Guidelines
• Where the Water Goes by David Owen
• Brenda Bowen
• 1491 by Charles C. Mann
• Deadrun by Dan Schultz
• Desert Notes and River Notes by Barry Lopez

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
• Chris Burkard, Part 2 – Seeking Beauty Through Adventure
• Taylor Hawes – Innovative Conservation in the Colorado River Basin
• Chandra Brown, Part 2 – Teaching & Learning in the West’s Wildest Landscapes
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Dylan Tomine – Protecting What He Loves

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

An excerpt from my most recent Shed Session episode, highlighting seven of my favorite books that you may have never heard of.

To listen to the full episode and all future Shed Sessions, become a Patreon supporter.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/shed-session-you-97515649

This is a special live episode that was recorded at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art in Fort Worth, Texas. The event was centered around the museum’s ongoing exhibition titled Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie, and the episode features a fascinating on-stage conversation with artist and past podcast guest James Prosek and art curator Spencer Wigmore. 

Trespassers is an exhibit about grasslands– specifically, James examines how we think about and define America’s imperiled prairie ecosystem. Over the course of more than two years, James traveled throughout Texas and the Southern Plains, visiting private ranches and urban restoration sites, and he was often accompanied by some of Texas’s most well-renowned grasslands experts. He investigated ideas around how our man-made boundaries and concepts attempt to define grasslands, and how grasslands often do not conform to our desires to control them. He examines ideas around fire, species classification, conservation, and natural history, and the end result is a collection of more than twenty mind-blowing paintings and sculptures.

As the curator for this exhibit, Spencer played a very unique role throughout the entire project– he was the one who initially approached James with the idea, he accompanied James on many of his grasslands road trips, and he even arranged the exhibit in its stunning space within the museum. So I loved learning about the collaboration between artist and curator, how they complimented each other’s personalities, and how they ultimately worked together to bring this spectacular collection of meaningful art into the world.

As you probably remember from my first podcast conversation with James, he’s a deep thinker who has spent his entire career digging into the nuances of our natural world. And Spencer’s depth of understanding of art history and the artistic process– as well as his ability to communicate his knowledge in a fun and engaging way– is second to none.  So I know you’ll enjoy this conversation that covers everything from broad, big-picture ideas around the philosophies of defining species, all the way down to the details of how James created such intricate, delicate sculptures. Be sure to check out the episode notes below for a full list of everything we discussed.

The episode starts with a kind introduction from The Carter’s Manager of Adult Programming, Madeleine Fitzgerald and then James, Spencer, and I begin our conversation.  I hope you enjoy!

Photos of Trespassers:

All photos courtesy of The Amon Carter Museum of American Art

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:00 - Welcome statements
• 10:45 - How the Trespassers exhibition came about in Spencer’s mind, and how it landed for James
• 19:15 - Comparing American grasslands to the Great Pyramids
• 23:45 - James’ painting process
• 29:15 - Spencer’s role as curator
• 34:00 - Discussing the work Fort Worth Composition No. 1
• 37:45 - Discussing James’ interest in silhouettes 
• 42:30 - James’ use of bronze to depict burn logs
• 47:00 - James’ clay flowers
• 50:15 - The biggest surprise in this project for Spencer
• 54:00  -What James has learned about grasslands since finishing the project
• 1:01:15 - James’ read on the state of western grasslands conservation
• 1:06:15 - James’ book recommendations 
• 1:09:30 - How Spencer sets up the gallery space
• 1:14:00 - Audience questions begin
• 1:14:45 - Spencer’s and James’ relationship to Fort Worth, and whether or not they found remnant prairies there
• 1:20:00 - Where Spencer and James feel the anti-fire bias came from?
• 1:23:30 - Inquiring about the significance of a Rio Grande Cutthroat Trout in one of James’ works
• 1:26:15 - Whether or not James or Spencer did some fly fishing as a part of their research for this project

Information Referenced:

• Amon Carter Museum of American Art
• Spencer Wigmore
• James Prosek
• Trespassers exhibition
• Big Bluestem 
• Fire in America by Stephen Pyne
• Heath Hens
• Pliny the Elder
• Prairie Time by Matt White
• Changes in the Land by William Cronon
• Forgotten Fires by Omer C. Stewart
• Jaime Gonzales, when featured in M&P epsisode
• The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
• Trout by James Kersec

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Live from Maxwell Alexander Gallery
• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
• Live with the Cowboy Artists of America
• Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
• Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
• Kelsey Johnson – Chasing Her Artistic Ambitions

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Ivy Spohnholz is the Alaska State Director at The Nature Conservancy, where she leads the organization’s critical work around climate solutions, sustainable fisheries, and resilient communities. Given its size, location, climate, demographics, and economics, Alaska presents a very unique blend of conservation challenges– challenges that can directly affect massive, landscape-scale ecosystems and the communities within them. We’ve rarely, if ever, dug into the details of conservation in Alaska on this podcast, so I was thrilled to have Ivy join me for such an in-depth conversation.

Ivy was born in a dry log cabin in the remote Wrangell Mountains, in what is now Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve. Her entire career has revolved around public service– she’s held leadership roles at the Salvation Army, University of Alaska Anchorage, Alaska Conservation Foundation, and Abused Women’s Aid in Crisis. She also served for more than six years in the Alaska House of Representatives, where she honed her skills as a pragmatic and effective problem solver. In the fall of 2022, she took the reins as TNC’s Alaska State Director and has been applying her skills as a leader and problem solver toward Alaska’s distinctive conservation challenges.

I’ve been lucky enough to visit Alaska on two separate occasions, and I’ve had some of the most formative experiences of my life in the Alaska Range. The size and scale of the mountains, valleys, and wildlife are so staggering that it's impossible to visit Alaska without gaining a deep respect for both the landscapes and the people who live there. So, I was excited to have the opportunity to chat with Ivy about her adventurous upbringing in Alaska and her service-oriented career. We talk in detail about her unexpected entrance into politics and how she quickly learned to lead and navigate the law-making process as an elected official. We discuss TNC’s focus areas in Alaska, and we talk a lot about Bristol Bay and its ecological and economic significance in the world. As you’ve probably come to expect, we talk about the all-important power of relationships, and we also discuss the need to be practical and optimistic.

A big thank you to Ivy for taking the time to talk with me– I greatly appreciate all of the important work being done by TNC Alaska. Enjoy!

Header photo by Matthew Waliszek, hunting photo by Troy Bowler

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Ivy’s birth in a dry log cabin in the Wrangell Mountains
• 7:15 - Ivy’s childhood
• 10:15 - When Ivy left Alaska, and what brought her back
• 12:00 - How serving others became a core part of Ivy
• 17:00 - When Ivy became an elected official
• 24:00 - Discussing the political landscape of Alaska
• 28:15 - How Ivy became involved with TNC
• 34:45 - Discussing TNC’s work in Alaska
• 41:00 - How Ivy balances working urgently with the often slower pace of building relationships 
• 46:30 - The importance of Bristol Bay
• 52:00 - Potential future threats to Bristol Bay
• 57:00 - The biggest surprise for Ivy in her work with TNC
• 59:30 - Discussing “practical optimism”
• 1:01:30 - Ivy’s book recommendations
• 1:03:45 - Ivy’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Ivy Sponholtz
• The Alaska Chapter of The Nature Conservancy
• Wrangell Mountains
• Nabesna, AK
• Wrangell-Saint Elias National Park and Preserve
• Anchorage, AK
• Talkeetna, AK
• The Timber Wars
• Bristol Bay
• United Tribes of Bristol Bay
• Pebble Mine
• Katharine Hayhoe
• Saving Us by Katherine Hayhoe
• Strangers In Their Own Land by Arlie Russell Hochschild
• How to Know a Person by David Brooks
• Good to Great by Jim Collins
• The Second Mountain by David Brooks

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagonia’s First Fifty Years
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Chandra Brown, Part 2 – Teaching & Learning in the West’s Wildest Landscapes
• Cole Mannix – Building Community through Land Stewardship and Local Food

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Chad Ellis is the CEO of the Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT), which is one of the nation’s leading ag-focused conservation organizations. TALT’s mission is “To conserve the Texas heritage of agricultural lands, wildlife habitats, and natural resources,” but at its core, TALT’s work is built on the foundation of long-term, trusting, mutually respectful relationships. 

Given the small proportion of public lands in Texas compared to other western states, much of the responsibility for landscape-scale ecological health falls on the shoulders of private landowners. And since 2007, TALT has helped these landowners find ways to not only protect their family legacies, but to improve the overall quality of grasslands, water, air, and wildlife for all Texans.

Chad was raised in rural Texas, and from a very early age, he felt a deep connection to land, agriculture, and wildlife. While his entire career has been devoted to thoughtfully and effectively stewarding natural resources, you’ll quickly realize that at his core, Chad is a relationship builder. During his tenures at the NRSC, the Noble Research Institute, and now as the leader of TALT, Chad has implemented many cutting-edge conservation solutions– but, as you’ll hear him explain, none of these projects would be successful without solid, trusting relationships between all stakeholders.

Longtime listeners will recognize Chad from an earlier appearance on Mountain & Prairie– back in 2023, he was one of the panelists in an episode called “Landscape-Scale Management in a Private Land State,” which was recorded live at the Texas Chapter of the Wildlife Society’s annual meeting. In this episode, we dig more into Chad’s personal and professional journey in conservation– why he has devoted his career to such a challenging-yet-critical cause, and how he approaches his work from both practical and philosophical perspectives. We discuss his love of entrepreneurial approaches, his leadership style, mentors, the storied legacy of TALT’s founder Blair Fitzsimons, supporting the next generation of conservationists, his favorite books, and much more.

If you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to check out TALT’s website and follow its work on social media– TALT is a constant source of inspiration for me and all of the Western conservation community. Thanks for listening!

Photos courtesy of Chad Ellis and TALT

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:30 - Where Chad grew up
• 7:45 - Chad’s work with PERC
• 10:15 - Where Chad’s entrepreneurial background came from
• 16:15 - How Chad moved up in the NRCS ranks
• 18:45 - Chad’s time with Mobil Foundation
• 21:45 - Chad’s personal vision
• 24:30 - Chad’s motivation to strengthen people’s connection to the land, instead of just supporting the land itself
• 27:15 - How Chad hires for a passionate team
• 29:15 - Chad’s work securing federal funding
• 32:45 - How Chad thinks about failure
• 34:45 - How Chad presented his vision for TALT to an already accomplished director (Blair Fitzsimons)
• 40:30 - Chad’s goal to support the next generation of conservationists
• 44:30 - How Chad interprets the threats facing conservation in Texas
• 51:30 - How Chad prioritizes his allocation of resources
• 58:45 - Exploring Chad’s level of patience, as well as the various ways that people learn and work
• 1:03:30 - The importance of relationships
• 1:07:45 - Chad’s book recommendations
• 1:09:15 - Chad’s parting words of advice

Information Referenced:

• Lohn, TX
• Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT)
• Property Environment Research Center (PERC)
• Noble Foundation (Noble Research Institute)
• Dr. Roel Lopez
• Natural Resource Institute
• Brian Lebronski
• Sul Ross State University
• Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
• Angelo State University
• Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS)
• Lloyd Noble
• Carlos Fernandez
• Inflation Reduction Act (IRA)
• Blair Fitzsimons
• Joe Fitzsimons
• Texas Chapter of the Wildlife Society 2023 meeting
• TALT’s guiding principles
• Regional Conservation Partnership Program (RCPP)
• Myers-Briggs Personality Test
• Enneagram
• Think Like a Horse by Grant Golliher
• Diamond Cross Ranch

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Erik Glenn Returns – Leadership, Innovation, & Commitment to Conservation
• Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival
• Matt Moorhead & Galen Guerrero-Murphy – Grasslands Conservation on the Southern High Plains
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Francesca Claverie – A Borderlands Conservation Success Story
• Taylor Hawes – Innovative Conservation in the Colorado River Basin
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Rick Wittenbraker is the CMO of Howler Brothers, an Austin-based apparel company that creates some of the most unique, stylish, quirky, and highly functional outdoor clothing for adventurers of all stripes. In a little over a decade, Howler has firmly established itself as the go-to brand for anglers, surfers, travelers, and fun-seekers– the kind of people who value good times with good friends in cool places. 

Rick was born and raised in Texas, attended UT Austin, and spent the first years of his career in traditional businesses such as finance and sales. But in 2009, he joined an up-and-coming cooler company known as Yeti, and that is where Rick’s genius for storytelling really broke through. He eventually became Yeti’s VP of Marketing and was one of the major forces behind Yeti’s groundbreaking approach to building a brand through outside-the-box storytelling. Along the way, he met Howler Brother’s founders– Chase Heard and Andy Stepanian– and eventually decided to join them and apply his brand-building expertise toward expanding what is now known as The Howlerverse.

Rick has been a longtime mentor of mine, and I credit his wisdom and counsel as being one the main factors that have allowed me to build Mountain & Prairie from a silly little side project into my full-time job. And there are countless creatives and entrepreneurs who have a similar story of Rick generously taking an interest in their project, offering his hard-earned wisdom, and expecting nothing in return. So this episode with Rick was long overdue.

We recorded this in Austin, at the Howler Brothers HQ, and we covered a lot, including: Rick’s career path, lessons learned from living internationally, his philosophies around building authentic, completely original brands, his ever-present focus on generosity and humility, separating personal identity from brand identity, growing without abandoning core values, the spirit behind the Howler Brothers brand, the Howler Brothers book, some of his favorite books, and much more.

A big thanks to Rick for taking the time to chat with me, as well as for everything he’s done to help Mountain & Prairie grow and evolve over the years. Hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Rick Wittenbraker

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Rick’s childhood and what he wanted to be when he grew up
• 9:15 - Rick’s first job out of college
• 11:15 - Rick’s mentor in his first job
• 14:45 - When Rick became interested in marketing
• 18:00 - When Rick realized he and Yeti were onto something big
• 20:45 - Inspirations for Rick’s style of marketing with Yeti, and why it works so well
• 25:30 - Fun that Rick has had on the job
• 27:45 - Why Rick decided to move along from Yeti
• 29:45 - A bump in Rick’s career road
• 31:15 - Balancing the merits of business ideas and businesses with the people who implement them
• 38:00 - Describing Howler Bros.
• 44:15 - How Howler Bros. balances their identity and values with the need for business growth
• 46:15 - Separating personal identity from brand identity
• 49:30 - Balancing initiative and recklessness as it pertains to business progress 
• 51:30 - Where Rick’s generosity and willingness to help comes from
• 54:00 - The future of Howler Bros.
• 58:15 - Rick’s book recommendations
• 1:03:00 - Rick’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Rick Wittenbraker
• Howler Bros.
• Flyfishing Film Tour
• Yeti Coolers
• Flip Pallot
• Jose Wajebe
• Bill Dance
• Chase Heard and Andy Stepanian 
• Howler monkey
• A Decade of Howler Brothers Book
• Goodbye to a River by John Graves
• Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
• Call an Audible by Daron K. Roberts

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Alvin Dedeaux – Living His Dream
• Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
• Chris Burkard, Part 2 – Seeking Beauty Through Adventure
• Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
• Jess Mudgett – Humble & Grateful
• Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

This is a special live episode that was recorded in Austin, Texas, in November of 2023 at the 50th Anniversary Endangered Species Act Symposium. As you may know, 2023 marked 50 years since the passing of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), which is one the most influential and impactful pieces of conservation legislation in United States history. This symposium gathered together an impressive and wide range of ESA experts from governmental, non-profit, and for-profit organizations, and we spent the day discussing the ESA’s fascinating and complex past, present, and future. 

In this episode, we’ll hear from four leaders who have worked in the trenches of conservation for decades, and each of them brings a unique perspective on both the challenges and opportunities that the ESA creates for on-the-ground conservation. The panelists are:

• Gary Frazer - Assistant Director for Ecological Services at the US Fish and Wildlife Service
• Peg Romanik - Recently retired high-ranking attorney from the Department of Interior
• Jimmy Bullock - Senior Vice President at Resource Management Service LLC
• Leo Miranda-Castro - Former USFWS Director and current Executive Director of Conservation without Conflict

All four of these distinguished panelists have worked extensively within the frameworks of the Endangered Species Act, and they bring a wealth of practical and philosophical knowledge about the ESA’s impact over the past 50 years… and its expected impacts in the future. But perhaps more importantly, these four panelists helped me to appreciate the humanity behind the historic, powerful legislation– the smart, dedicated, conservation-minded leaders whose work has allowed the act to effect change and evolve over the past five decades.

We covered a lot during this hour-long discussion, and highlights include: How the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach; concrete examples of productive, collaborative conservation; working with the extreme opinions about climate change; hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation; examining potential political threats to the ESA; the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation, advice for young people in the conservation field, and much more.  

This episode was the last panel discussion of the day, so if you’d like to listen to the first three panels, you can do so below. Those earlier sessions include discussions with everyone from one of the ESA’s authors to some of today’s most renowned conservation thought leaders– I really can’t imagine having a more impressive group of conservation practitioners in one room. You can check out the Symposium program, which includes all the details of the day's event and speaker bios. 

And one more thing: This symposium was organized by the fellows of the James G. Teer Conservation Leadership Institute, which is sponsored by The Texas Chapter of The Wildlife Society. The mission of the Teer Institute is to ensure a future legacy of well-trained conservation leaders by providing professional training in leadership skills and contemporary conservation. I was so impressed with all the fellows and left this event feeling very optimistic about the future of conservation in Texas and beyond.

A huge thank you to the fellows and to Dr. Roel Lopez of Texas A&M University for inviting me down to Austin to moderate this panel. It was an honor to be in the same room with all these amazingly inspiring folks. Hope you enjoy!

All photos by Brittany Wegner

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 4:00 - Introduction
• 10:15 - Peg describes when the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach
• 14:45 - Leo’s example of exceptional collaborative conservation
• 21:00 - How Gary handles extreme opinions about climate change
• 27:00 - Examples of Jimmy’s work with the ESA that became financially sustainable
• 31:30 - Hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation
• 34:45 - Examining the security of the ESA
• 39:00 - Discussing the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation
• 44:30 - The panel’s advice for young people in this field
• 53:15 - Wrapping up and acknowledgments

Information Referenced:

• James G. Teer Conservation Leadership Institute
• Symposium Program and Speaker Bios
• Endangered Species Act
• Dr. Roel Lopez
• Peg Romanik
• Leo Miranda
• Gary Frazer
• Jimmy Bullock
• Gopher Tortoise
• National Alliance of Forest Owners
  • Wildlife Conservation Initiative
• Section 4 listings
• Katherine Hayhoe
• Saving Us by Katherine Hayhoe
• Rio Encantado, Puerto Rico
• Aldo Leopold
• The Ladybird Johnson Wildflower Center
• East Foundation
• Department of Defense Natural Resources
• Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation
• Hershey Foundation
• Caesar Kleberg Wildlife Research Institute
• The Temple Foundation
• Bowman Consulting
• The Nature Conservancy
• Welder Wildlife Foundation
• Texas A&M
• Aldo Leopold Foundation

Earlier Symposium Sessions

Session One - Past

Session Two - Present

Session Three - Future

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Landscape-Scale Management in a Private Land State
• Equitable Access to the Outdoors in Texas
• Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival
• Erik Glenn Returns – Leadership, Innovation, & Commitment to Conservation
• James Prosek – Art, Philosophy, & Our Natural World
• Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/shed-session-12-95389124

Paige Lewis is the Deputy State Director and Director of Conservation Programs for The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. In this role, she serves as the chapter’s chief conservation officer and is responsible for leading the development of innovative, large-scale and entrepreneurial solutions to the challenges facing people and nature in Colorado and around the world. Paige brings a unique skill set that combines big-picture thinking with tangible, one-the-ground execution– her work involves creating ambitious, large-scale strategies, while also ensuring that the TNC team has the resources, communication, and support to accomplish its goals.

Over the course of this 2023 podcast series with TNC Colorado, we’ve highlighted both the breadth and depth of the organization’s work in Colorado and beyond. From grassland conservation to sustainable water management to forest health to urban conservation efforts (and much more!), it’s been amazing to learn about the positive impact that TNC is having across such a broad spectrum of pressing environmental issues. And if you’ve wondered, as I have, how TNC successfully aligns so many initiatives, teams, and stakeholders toward common organizational goals, well, you’re in luck, because that’s exactly what Paige does!

Paige and I sat down at the TNC office in Boulder just before the holidays and had a fun conversation that looked back at some of the 2023 conservation wins and looked forward toward TNC’s ambitious goals for the future. We started out discussing Paige’s lifelong appreciation for conservation, and her career that took her from her home state of Utah to Washington DC and eventually to Colorado. We discussed her skill of thinking strategically while also focusing on the need to get things done, and how she has managed to keep so many balls in the air year after year. We talk about durable conservation, collective action, and embracing risk, and we also discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with setting ambitious goals. Paige is a voracious reader and lover of history, so she has tons of excellent book recommendations.

A big thank you to Paige for taking the time to chat with me during such a busy time of year, and, once again, thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo by Ethan Herrold/TNC Photo Contest 2019; headshot by Lauryn Wachs.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - How Paige became interested in conservation
• 9:15 - Paige’s first conservation job 
• 10:45 - Adjusting from the West to DC
• 11:45 - Paige’s return West
• 15:00 - How Paige ended up at TNC
• 18:30 - Paige’s role at TNC
• 23:30 - An example of successful collaborative work in Paige’s time at TNC
• 27:15 - What Paige is most proud of in TNC’s 2023 work
• 30:30 - Reflecting on TNC’s progress towards their 2026 strategic goals
• 34:30 - How Paige prioritizes and keeps all the balls in the air
• 39:45 - What “durable conservation” means and looks like to Paige
• 42:30 - What “collective action” means and looks like to Paige
• 45:30 - How Paige knows when to shift from ideation and relationship building to action
• 48:45 - How TNC’s approach to taking risks has changed during Paige’s tenure
• 52:15 - What qualities Paige thinks makes a good team member at TNC
• 56:15 - Paige’s book recommendations
• 1:02:15 - Paige’s parting words

Information Referenced:

• Paige Lewis
• TNC Colorado’s 2023 Year in Review
• Providence, UT
• Cache Valley
• Bear Mountains
• Wellsville Mountains 
• Topophilia by Yi-Fu Tuan
• Logan Canyon
• Utah Division of Forestry, Fire and State Lands
• Western Forestry Leadership Coalition
• Sarah Dant
• Losing Eden by Sara Dant
• Colorado State Forest Service
• Hayman Fire 
• Rob Addington
• John Vaillant 
• Taylor Hawes
• TNC’s Colorado River Program
• TNC’s work in Mongolia
• TNC’s Southern High Plains Initiative 
• Diana Lane
• TNC’s Power to the People and the Planet Program
• Carlos Fernandez
• Catalyst Fund
• Chris Hawkins 
• Colorado Outdoor Plan
• Great Outdoors Colorado
• Matt Moorehead 
• Legacy of Conquest by Patrica Nelson Limerick
• Fire on the Plateau by Charles Wilkinson
• The Rediscovery of America by Ned Blackhawk
• A Man Called Ove by Frederik Backman
• My Grandmother Asked Me to Tell You She’s Sorry by Frederik Backman
• Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
• Animal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara Kingsolver

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Erik Glenn Returns – Leadership, Innovation, & Commitment to Conservation
• Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times
• Francesca Claverie – A Borderlands Conservation Success Story
• Nate Schweber – A Forgotten Chapter of American Conservation
• Liz Moore – For the Love of Montana

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Jenna Pollard is a timber framer, a farmer, and an advocate for organic agriculture, but at her core, she is a teacher. The list of Jenna’s inspiring projects, causes, and interests is too extensive to summarize in a few sentences, but to give you an overview: She hosts workshops for women in which they learn the art of timber framing and build structures as a team from the ground up. She’s a team member with Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms (also known as WWOOF), where she helps to provide opportunities for aspiring farmers to build their careers. She’s also a committed traveler, community builder, reader, and all-around inspiring human.

Born and raised in South Dakota, Jenna grew up immersed in the outdoors and various outdoor adventures. After college, she went to work on an organic farm, which began her professional passion for working closely with the land surrounded by a community of like-minded individuals. As you’ll hear, she continued to follow her curiosity and has enjoyed a fulfilling and wide-ranging career– she worked as a teacher in Japan, built her own timber-frame home on the South Dakota prairie, and became deeply involved in helping to develop the skills and confidence of future farmers and timber framers. But if there’s a thread that connects all of Jenna’s work, it’s her commitment to building community through hard work and shared purpose– one of my favorite topics to discuss.

I first learned about Jenna through a short film by Patagonia Workwear that profiled her women’s timber-framing workshops– I’ve linked to the film in the episode notes. So I was thrilled that our schedules aligned so that we could have this conversation, and I learned so much for her. We discussed her upbringing in South Dakota and how her outdoor-focused childhood laid the foundation for her career. We discussed the intricacies of timber framing, and why it is such a powerful skill for building community and confidence. We talk a lot about WWOOF and its Future Farming Program, and Jenna offers some ways that aspiring farmers can get involved. We also discuss books, how Jenna accomplishes so much, how Patagonia has encouraged and supported her work, lessons learned from Japan, and much much more.

If you want to connect with Jenna, attend a workshop, or learn more about WWOOF, there are links to everything in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Jenna Pollard.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 2:30 - Where Jenna grew up
• 4:15 - What Jenna did for fun as a kid
• 6:30 - Turning points in Jenna’s life regarding self-sufficiency in the outdoors
• 8:45 - Post-high school for Jenna
• 11:00 - How something like WWOOFing drew Jenna’s career attention
• 13:30 - Books and thinkers that influenced Jenna’s agrarian lifestyle
• 16:00 - Defining “timber framing,” and exploring why it captured Jenna’s attention
• 20:00 - When Jenna decided to start teaching timber framing
• 21:15 - Discussing the process of Jenna building her house in South Dakota
• 24:45 - How Jenna came to specifically teach women how to timber frame
• 38:15 - How Patagonia became interested in Jenna’s timber framing classes
• 30:45 - Continuing to explore the importance of Jenna’s work with women
• 33:00 - Jenna’s success stories from her classes
• 37:15 - The relationships that Jenna builds through timber framing
• 39:15 - Jenna’s students’ goals
• 40:45 - Discussing WWOOF
• 43:15 - Discussing the 2024 Future Farming Program
• 47:15 - How Jenna manages to do all of this!
• 48:15 - Jenna’s time as a teacher in Japan
• 52:30 - Whether or not Jenna ever questioned her path
• 55:15 - Jenna’s book recommendations
• 1:01:15 - Jenna’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Patagonia film Reframed
• WWOOF
• Places to hear about Jenna’s upcoming classes:
  • Email Jenna - jennampollard@gmail.com
  • Steger Center
  • Canelo Project
  • Olympic Outpost
• Timber framing
• Wendell Berry
• Mary Oliver
• The Encyclopedia of Country Living by Carla Emery
• Patagonia
• Patagonia Workwear
• Yvon Chouinard
• Tenkara
• Tribe by Sebastian Junger
• Will Steger
• Patagonia workwear
• Future Farmer Program
• MESA
• Quivira Coalition
• New Agrarian Program
• Kumamoto, Japan
• Jack London
• Just Enough by Azby Brown
• The Art of Taking Action by Gregg Krech
• Shoma Morita
• Jack Sobon
• Pilgrim at Tinker Creek by Annie Dillard (not mentioned in the episode, but this book has been incredibly influential)

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Christy Sing Robertson – On Grit, Hard Work, & Going All In
• Jesse Griffiths – Humility, Curiosity, and Creative Cuisine
• Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
• Cate Havstad-Casad, Part 2 – Building Businesses for the Greater Good
• Jess Mudgett – Humble & Grateful
• Megan Torgerson – Storytelling from Rural America

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Diana Lane is the Director of Sustainable Food and Water at the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy, and Aaron Derwingson is the Water Projects Director for the Nature Conservancy’s Colorado River Program. Both Diana and Aaron work at the intersection of water sustainability, thriving rivers, resilient agriculture, and strong communities– harnessing TNC’s relationships and resources to advance some of the most cutting-edge and effective conservation initiatives in the American West.

Diana and Aaron bring a diverse set of skills and experiences to their work at TNC. Diana holds a PhD in Biological Sciences and has spent much of her career working with a wide array of partners on restoration ecology and planning, climate adaptation, and management of public funding. Aaron is a river guide-turned-conservationist who began his career focusing on conservation in the Rio Grande River basin, and now applies his skills toward creating pragmatic, solution-oriented approaches to freshwater challenges in the greater Colorado River basin. But perhaps most importantly, they both bring a deep level of passion and focus to their work– their optimistic commitment to solving some of the West’s most pressing water and agricultural challenges is infectious.

Diana, Aaron, and I connected virtually and had an educational and inspiring conversation about water, agriculture, and community here in Colorado and beyond. We discussed some of the most urgent water-related challenges and opportunities and how they are working with a wide range of stakeholders to find mutually beneficial solutions. We discuss the Yampa River fund, their work helping agricultural producers adjust to a drier climate, and the all-important role of building solid relationships with stakeholders. We discussed the Maybell Irrigation Ditch Project, which is a fascinating, win-win project for both producers and recreational river users, and we discussed some of the water-related challenges that keep both Diana and Aaron up and night. And as usual, they both have plenty of excellent book recommendations.  

A huge thank you to Diana and Aaron for taking the time to talk with me, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy!

Header photo by Ken Geiger; all photos courtesy of the Nature Conservancy.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Diana and Aaron’s backgrounds
• 7:30 - Aaron’s read on the future of water
• 12:30 - Diana’s overview of the Yampa River Fund
• 18:30 - Aaron’s work with producers to adjust to the new water reality
• 23:15 - The process of building relationships with producers for water projects
• 27:00 - The Colorado Water Plan’s impact on Diana and Aaron’s work
• 31:45  - Discussing the Yampa River Fund
• 41:15 - The things about Colorado water that keep Diana and Aaron up at night
• 47:15 - What makes a solid conservation professional
• 51:00 - How you can help TNC in this work
• 55:30 - Diana and Aaron’s book recommendations
• 1:00:00 - Parting requests and words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• TNC Colorado
• Dr. Diana Lane
• Aaron Derwingson
• Upper San Juan Watershed Enhancement Project
• Colorado Agricultural Water Alliance
• Evaluating Conserved Consumptive Use In The Upper Colorado
  • Further research
• Yampa River Fund
• Gulf Oil Spill 2010
• Colorado River Program
• Rio Grande Headwaters Land Trust
• Taylor Hawes
• Matt Cahill
• Maybell Irrigation Ditch Project
• Matt Moorehead
• Yampa River video from TNC
• Bioneers
• Nature’s Operating Instructions by The Bioneers
• Ecological Literacy by The Bioneers
• The Last Ranch by Sam Bingham
• Eager by Ben Goldfarb
• Water Always Wins by Erica Gies

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Taylor Hawes – Innovative Conservation in the Colorado River Basin
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• Erik Glenn Returns – Leadership, Innovation, & Commitment to Conservation
• Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
• SHED SESSION: Everything I Know About Landing a Job in the Conservation World
• Live from the Strenuous Life Retreat: In Conversation with Nancy Fishbein
• Cole Mannix – Building Community through Land Stewardship and Local Food
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

John Vaillant is a renowned writer and journalist whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, National Geographic, and more, and he’s also the author of classic books including The Tiger and The Golden Spruce. His most recent book is titled Fire Weather: A True Story from a Hotter World, which is a must-read for anyone interested in wildfires, humans’ relationship with fire, and the future of fire-related disasters. And you don’t have to take my word for it– the book won the 2023 Baillie Gifford Prize for Non-Fiction and was a finalist for both the National Book Award and the Hilary Weston Writers' Trust Prize for Nonfiction.

Fire Weather tells the story of the 2016 Fort McMurray wildfire– a historic and apocalyptic fire that torched the city of Fort McMurray, Alberta, and spread across nearly 1.5 million acres of forest. With this epic disaster as the focal point, John masterfully weaves in the fascinating histories of fire, the fossil fuel industry, and climate science. He also explores 21st-century wildfires– why they are hotter, more aggressive, and more destructive than anything we’ve seen before. Whether you’re interested in the science of fire and forest health, the fascinating relationship between humans and fire, or you’re just looking for a book that you won’t be able to put down, I give Fire Weather my highest endorsement.

Wildfires are obviously becoming more and more intense and destructive here in the West, so I was excited to chat with John and dig deeper into the history of fire and the outlook for the future. We discussed why he decided to devote many years to writing about this particular wildfire, and how the book’s ingenious structure came to him in a dream. We talk about the similarities between living beings and fire, a fascinating idea known as the Lucretius Problem, some of the story’s larger-than-life characters, John’s long-term goals for the book, some of his favorite books, and much, much more.

A huge thanks to John for writing such an impactful book and for taking the time to chat with me. I encourage you to pick up a copy of Fire Weather as soon as you can, but in the meantime, enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with John Vaillant.

Header photo: Chris Schwarz / Government of Alberta / Reuters; Headshot: John Sinal

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - When John realized he wanted to write about fire
• 11:15 - The surprising significance of dreams in John’s writing
• 14:15 - How John organizes the information in his head so he can write
• 19:45 - A brief note on pacing, and the similarities between living beings and fire
• 30:45 - The Lucretius Problem
• 35:45 - How John finds the characters for his book
• 44:15 - How John handles writing about someone in a less-than-flattering light
• 52:00 - John’s goals for his book, Fire Weather
• 57:30 - John’s book recommendations
• 1:02:15 - John’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Fire Weather by John Vaillant
• The Tiger by John Vaillant
• The Golden Spruce by John Vaillant
• The Jaguar’s Children by John Vaillant
• Johnathon Dee
• Fort McMurray, Alberta
• Tubbs Fire
• Paradise Fire
• Camp Fire
• Lucretius
• Alex Steffen
• Marshall Fire
• Lahaina, HI
• The Johnstown Flood by David McCullough
• Endurance by Alfred Lansing
• Shackleton expedition
• Moby Dick by Herman Melville
• Paddle to the Sea by Holling C. Holling
• The Tree and the Trail by Holling C. Holling
• Mike Mulligan and His Steam Shovel by Virginia Lee Burton
• Life Story by Virginia Lee Burton

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
• Hampton Sides – Live at the Aspen Institute
• Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Bryce Andrews, Part 2 – “Holding Fire”
• Auden Schendler – The Optimistic Pragmatist
• David Gessner Returns – “A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World”

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Dr. Sara Dant is a Brady Presidential Distinguished Professor of history at Weber State University, and she’s the author of one of my most-often recommended books, Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. She is also one of the featured historians in Ken Burns’ newest documentary, The American Buffalo, which you can watch for free on the PBS website. Sara’s work focuses on environmental politics in the United States with a particular emphasis on the creation and development of consensus and bipartisanism, and she is especially skilled at presenting complex, sometimes controversial topics in an engaging and fun-to-learn manner.

In June of 2023, Sara updated and republished her book Losing Eden– she added some chapters, revised some of the content, and added lots of maps, photos, and additional resources. She somehow managed to make one of my favorite books even better. For anyone who is looking for a thorough yet fun-to-read overview of this complex region known as the American West, I can’t recommend it enough. From the migration of the first humans into North America to modern-day controversies around energy development, the book provides a solid foundation and acts as a launching point to dig into whatever specific time period you may find interesting.

Longtime listeners will remember my first conversation with Sara back in 2018, in which we discussed the early phases of North American environmental history, the tragedy of the commons, conservation vs preservation, and more. In this conversation, we focus on mostly recent environmental history, including the historic environmental legislation of the 1960s and 70s, legendary senator Frank Church, and the backlash to environmental regulation that led to movements such as the Sagebrush Rebellion. We also discuss Sara’s perspective-shifting Alaska adventure, the value of wild places, her experience working with Ken Burns, book recommendations, and much, much more.

I always enjoy my visits with Sara, and I can’t thank her enough for how generous she is with sharing her time, wisdom, and expertise. I’d encourage you to pick up a copy of the new Losing Eden, but in the meantime, enjoy this conversation with Dr. Sara Dant.

Photos courtesy of Sara Dant.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Why Sara decided to republish Losing Eden
• 7:00 - The guiding idea of "At what cost?"
• 10:00 - The myth of "right or wrong," "good or bad"
• 16:15 - Using history to understand our current political situation
• 19:30 - Optimistic examples of positive political environmental bipartisanship
• 23:30 - The legendary Idaho senator, Frank Church
• 28:00 - James Watt and the backlash to environmental regulation
• 34:00 - Divisiveness as a power-grabbing tool
• 43:00 - Sara's 2019 life-changing trip to Alaska
• 46:30 - What is the value of wild places?
• 54:15 - Participating in the new Ken Burns documentary
• 56:30 - Something new that Sara has recently learned
• 1:02:30 - Book recommendations and further reading
• 1:10:30 - Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Dr. Sara Dant
• Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West
• Sara's first M&P episode
• Weber State University
• Spotted Owl controversy
• Frank Chuch
• Sierra Club
• Grangeville, Idaho
• Gospel Hump Wilderness
• The Wilderness Act
• Endangered Species Act
• Great Salt Lake dry-up threat
• College of Eastern Utah
• Fighting the Odds: The Life of Senator Frank Church by LeRoy Ashby and Rod Gramer
• Wild and Scenic Rivers
• James Watt
• James Watt obituary
• Ronald Reagan
• Sagebrush Rebellion
• Bears Ears National Monument
• Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
• Hula Hula River
• William Cronon's The Trouble with Wilderness
• Aldo Leopold
• Mo Udall
• Stewart Udall
• Frank Church - River of No Return Wilderness
• Hells Canyon
• Echo Park
• Doug Peacock
• The American Buffalo by Ken Burns
• Wild New World by Dan Flores
• Invisible Reality: Storytellers, Storytakers, and the Supernatural World of the Blackfeet by Rosalyn R. LaPier
• Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
• Silent Spring Revolution by Douglas Brinkley
• Overshootday.org

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
• Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
• David Gessner Returns – “A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World”
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Taylor Hawes – Innovative Conservation in the Colorado River Basin

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Corissa Busse is the Buffalo Restoration Program Manager for The Nature Conservancy, where she oversees TNC’s work to advance Tribal-led efforts to restore buffalo, grasslands, and communities at scale. Based in Rapid City, South Dakota, Corissa and her team at TNC partner with organizations including the InterTribal Buffalo Council and the Tanka Fund to bring buffalo back to tribal lands, which not only contributes to healthier, more resilient landscapes, but helps to heal and restore a web of natural relationships that has been broken for hundreds of years.

TNC has been working with buffalo for many decades now, and it owns herds at numerous TNC preserves across the United States. Each year, those herds produce approximately 1,500 buffalo that are in need of new homes, so TNC has begun working with Tribal nations to transfer these buffalo from the TNC preserves onto Native lands. But transferring the animals from one place to another is relatively simple– it’s the trust-building, infrastructure development, and long-term, collaborative vision that requires strong relationships and outside-the-box thinking. As you’ll hear in this conversation, it’s a complex and important project with amazing potential.

I’ve always loved learning about buffalo, and given the recent release of Ken Burns’ newest documentary on this very subject, I was extra excited to chat with Corissa. We started out with the most basic question of all– “Should we call them bison or buffalo?”-- and then moved into the more complex topics. We discussed when and why TNC initially became interested in buffalo, TNC’s history of working with Tribal partners, the challenges of overcoming historical realities, the potential for tension between cattle and buffalo producers, specific success stories from TNC’s buffalo restoration work, the all-important role of strong relationships, resources to learn more about buffalo, and Corissa offers some excellent book recommendations.

I greatly appreciate Corissa taking the time out of her busy schedule to educate me on the finer details of buffalo as well as the large-scale vision for TNC’s work. I learned a lot from this conversation, and I know you will too.  Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy.

Header photo by John Fielder courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, headshot courtesy of Corissa Busse

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Is it buffalo or bison?
• 6:30 - A brief history of buffalo in the US
• 10:30 - Books and resources that have helped Corissa learn more about the history of buffalo 
• 13:45 - TNC’s interest in buffalo
• 17:00 - TNC’s history of relationship-building with Tribal nation partners
• 22:15 - How buffalo from TNC’s herds are transferred to other partners
• 23:30 - Exploring the tension between cattle and buffalo businesses
• 27:15 - Examples of the success of Corissa’s program
• 31:15 - Measuring success in this work
• 35:00 - The challenges in this work that Corissa worries about
• 39:15 - The market for buffalo
• 42:15 - How Corissa got into work with buffalo
• 48:00 - The importance of relationships to Corissa’s work
• 52:30 - Corissa’s book recommendations
• 56:00 - Ways you can support Corissa’s work, and Corissa’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Corissa Busse
• The Nature Conservancy
• Corrisa’s buffalo restoration work
• “The American Buffalo” by Ken Burns 
• The Ecological Buffalo by Wes Olson
• Dan Flores
• Sara Dant
• Zapata Ranch
• Matt Moorehead and Galen Guerrero-Murphy
• Intertribal Buffalo Council
• Tonka Fund
• Eastern Shoshone
• Northern Arapaho
• Vincent Stanley
• Catalyst Fund
• Oceti Sakowin Oyate (Sioux) Nation 
• Seneca Nation
• Haudenosaunee Confederacy (Iroquois)
• Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Whitener Group
• Indian Country 101 training

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Matt Moorhead & Galen Guerrero-Murphy – Grasslands Conservation on the Southern High Plains
• Cole Mannix – Building Community through Land Stewardship and Local Food
• Francesca Claverie – A Borderlands Conservation Success Story
• Betsy Gaines Quammen – A Fascinating History of Public Lands in the West

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

Vincent Stanley is the Director of Philosophy at Patagonia, and he holds the honor of being the company’s longest-serving employee. He is also an author, poet, and a resident fellow at the Yale Center for Business and the Environment. His most recent book, which he co-authored with Patagonia’s founder Yvon Chouinard, is titled The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years. 

The book recounts Patagonia’s evolution from its humble beginnings as a small offshoot of Chouinard Equipment for Alpinists to becoming the world’s premiere outdoor apparel brand into its current role of serving as a blueprint for how business can be a force for good in the world. In less than 200 pages, Vincent delves into Patagonia’s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, and he explains Patagonia’s never-ending quest to become more responsible, more thoughtful, and more effective in achieving its mission of “saving our home planet.”

My first real exposure to Patagonia’s business model was when I was a student in graduate school, earning my MBA. I read Yvon’s book Let My People Go Surfing, and realized that many of the business lessons and philosophies from Patagonia stood in stark contrast to those of mega-corporations. Patagonia’s approach opened my mind to a different way of thinking about business, one that led me to follow a much different path than I’d planned when I initially showed up at grad school.  So it was a real honor to have the conversation with Vincent and dig even deeper into the philosophies, ideals, and tactics that have made Patagonia such a legendary enigma in the world of big-time business– and a role model for me and countless other business owners.

Vincent and I connected virtually– he was in Maine, I was in Colorado– and we talked about all aspects of the book, as well as his long and storied history at Patagonia. You can check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, and I would highly recommend you pick up a copy of The Future of the Responsible Company– it’s chock full of actionable, applicable wisdom that anyone with a job would benefit from knowing.

Thanks to Vincent for taking the time to chat, thanks to you for listening, and I hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Patagonia

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:00 - How Vincent became involved in Patagonia
• 7:00 - Why Vincent and Yvon decided to update The Responsible Company, and a history of changes at Patagonia
• 24:00 - When Vincent realized there was interest in and demand for the business model and values of Patagonia
• 28:00 - Differentiating between “responsible” and “sustainable”
• 31:00 - How Vincent and Patagonia approach the work of marketing
• 34:30 - The unconventional business performance indicators and evaluations that Patagonia employs
• 37:15 - Why books are important in Vincent and Patagonia’s work
• 41:15 - Who and what gives Vincent hope for the future
• 44:15 - Reconciling the guilt of “messing up”
• 50:15 - Vincent’s book recommendations
• 53:00 - Vincent’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Vincent Stanley
• Patagonia
• Yvon Chouinard
• The Future of the Responsible Company by Yvon Chouinard & Vincent Stanley
• All Patagonia Books
• San Joaquin Valley
• Wilkes-Barre, PA
• United Nations Sustainable Development Goals
• Laudato Si’ by Pope Francis
• Syrian Civil War
• Dr. Michael Kami
• Let My People Go Surfing by Yvon Chouinard
• Milton Friedman
• Dylan Tomine
• Frances B. Ashforth
• DamNation film
• Patagonia Books
• Malinda Chouinard
• Doug Tompkins
• Kristine Tompkins
• Doug Peacock
• Rick Ridgeway
• Tom McGuane
• Jim Harrison
• Greenwich Village
• Hurricane Lee
• Daniel Goleman
• The End of Nature by Bill McKibben
• Wallace Stevens
• William Carlos Williams 
• Kate Raworth 
• Donut Economics
• John Fullerton
• The Capital Institute
• Middlemarch by George Eliot

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Dylan Tomine – Protecting What He Loves

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Rebecca Clarren is an award-winning journalist who has been writing about the American West for more than twenty years. Her most recent book is titled The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance. The book is a powerful, nuanced, and deeply personal exploration of her ancestors fleeing antisemitism in Russia and immigrating to the South Dakota prairie at the turn of the 20th century. I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of the book, and I absolutely loved it. Rebecca seamlessly weaves together heavily researched US and Native American history with a vulnerable, clear-eyed examination of her family’s legacy. The result is an engaging story that not only helped me better understand the past, but provided a blueprint for how we can begin to make amends and move forward, both individually and as a nation.

In The Cost of Free Land, Rebecca grapples with the complicated ripple effects of her family settling on the Great Plains– the free land that they received from the US government allowed them to establish a foothold in America, and over time, they found relative stability, especially when compared to their chaotic lives in Russia. But her family’s stability and eventual success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Contrasting her family’s experience with that of the Lakota makes this story all the more powerful, and speaks volumes about Rebeccs’s skill as a writer and journalist. Again, I loved the book.

Rebecca and I connected the day before the book was published, and we had a wonderful conversation. We started by discussing why she decided to write such a deeply personal story, and how that differs from most of her previous journalistic endeavors. She provides a brief overview of the Lakota people and the laundry list of injustices they faced during westward expansion. We discuss the complicated nature of land ownership on reservations, and how those complications continue even to this day. She explains how the US’s treatment of Native American influenced Hitler and the Nazi Party, and how she personally processes her family’s role in Westward expansion by working with spiritual mentors and exploring her own Jewish faith. We also talk about her career as a journalist, how motherhood has changed her, the challenge of writing, and she has lots of great book recommendations.

Thanks to Rebecca for writing such an important and eye-opening book, and thank you for listening.  Hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Rebecca Clarren and Viking Books.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:15 - When Rebecca decided to write “The Cost of Free Land”
• 9:15 - Discussing the vulnerable process of capturing not just Rebecca’s story, but her entire family’s story and how it ties in with American histories of stolen land
• 18:15 - Discussing empathy in the difficult stories of Rebecca’s book
• 21:30 - A brief history of the Lakota and the injustices they faced during westward expansion
• 27:00 - Discussing the complicated nature of land ownership on Indigenous reservations, and how the US Government still influences land decisions on reservations
• 30:45 - Discussing the historical implications of US land theft from Indigenous peoples, including how it influenced the actions of the Nazis during the Holocaust
• 33:15 - The Six Steps of Repentance and how Rebecca processes the violent past of the US and how she benefited from it  
• 40:45 - The biggest surprise about Rebecca’s family that she learned in writing this book
• 43:15 - Surprises in Rebecca’s research about the Lakota
• 48:00 - Where Rebecca thinks the world of journalism is going
• 51:15 - Rebecca’s career trajectory
• 55:15 - How having kids impacted Rebecca’s approach to work
• 58:30 - The difficulty of writing
• 59:30 - Rebecca’s book recommendations
• 1:05:45 - Rebecca’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Rebecca Clarren
• The Cost of Free Land by Rebecca Clarren
• Kickdown by Rebecca Clarren 
• High Country News
• Pine Ridge Reservation
• Lakota
• Investigate West
• Sioux tribe
• Dakota
• The Regional Arts and Culture Council
• Yiddish
• Pogrom
• Abby Abinanti
• Yurok nation
• Rabbi Benjamin Barnett
• Havruta
• Torah
• Talmud
• Cathy Park Hong 
• Ann Tweedy
• Treaty of Fort Laramie
• Tim Giago
• Lakota Times
• Ed Marston
• Josh Meisel
• Haskell Indian Nations University
• Indian Land Tenure Foundation
• Lorelai Cloud
• Hitler’s American Model  by James Whitman
• Maimonides
• On Repentance and Repair by Danya Ruttenberg
• Wounded Knee Massacre
• Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe
• Remi Bald Eagle 
• Smith College
• Denali National Park
• Durango Herald
• Mariana Islands
• Betsy Marston
• The Plague of Doves by Louise Erdrich
• Late Nights on Air by Elizabeth Hay
• Cloud Atlas by David Mitchel
• Let the Great World Spin by Collin McCan
• Joan Didion
• Custer Died for Our Sins by Vine Deloria Jr.
• Killers of the Flower Moon by David Grann

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• David Gessner Returns – “A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World”
• Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
• Bryce Andrews, Part 2 – “Holding Fire”
• Shane Doyle – Reverence for the Past, Hope for the Future
• Marci McLean & Cora Neumann on COVID’s Impact on Native Communities
• Juanita Vero, Part 2 – A Deep Desire to Serve

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Nick Offerman is an actor, author, humorist, and woodworker who is best known for playing the legendary character Ron Swanson on NBC’s Parks and Recreation. But his success as an actor is just the tip of the iceberg– he’s written five New York Times bestselling books, is the narrator of three of Wendell Berry’s audiobooks, and owns and operates Offerman Woodshop, where he and a small collective of woodworkers handcraft everything from spoons to furniture to canoes. And as many of you know, Nick is a staunch advocate for conservation, responsible land stewardship, and sustainable agriculture.

Nick’s most recent book is titled Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside, and it’s an excellent, thought-provoking read. It follows Nick on a series of adventures through the American West and English countryside– adventures driven by his desire to better understand conservation, recreation, and humans’ connection to the land and wild places. Along the way, he explores everything from the legacies of John Muir and Aldo Leopold to regenerative agriculture, without shying away from tough, complex topics, such as industrial farming and the conservation movement’s impact on Indigenous cultures. The book also hits on so many underlying ideas that are often explored here on Mountain & Prairie, including nuance, empathy, compassion, curiosity, and doing work that makes the world a better place. I loved the book, and I highly recommend it.

I met up with Nick in Los Angeles at Offerman Woodshop, and we had a fun, inspiring, and at times hilarious conversation about everything from Aldo Leopold’s Land Ethic to Nick's work as a “traveling clown.” (His words, not mine!) We started out by discussing the life-changing moment when a friend handed him a Wendell Berry book, and how Wendell’s writings and philosophy continue to be one of Nick’s most important sources of inspiration and instruction to this day. We discuss why hard work and being of service to others are so deeply embedded in Nick’s DNA, and the critical role that artists can play in solving societal challenges. We talk about authenticity, the importance of being even-keeled, the need for nuance and open-mindedness, the skill of self-deprecation, enjoying the process of creating, not passing judgment, and much, much more.

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play was just released in paperback, so follow the links in the episode notes to pick up a copy. If you’re a longtime listener, I know you’ll love it. There are also links to Offerman Woodshop, Nick’s touring schedule, and all of his other books, so click through and check it all out.

A thousand thanks to Nick for inviting me to his shop for such an amazing conversation, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo of Nick in Glacier National Park by George Saunders, headshot by Taylor Miller.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - A self-deprecation showdown
• 5:30 - The impact of Wendell Berry on Nick’s life
• 10:15 - Of Nick’s family and upbringing, and tying back to Wendell Berry
• 15:15 - Nick telling the story of when he “made it,” and how that impacted his work ethic
• 18:30 - Of the ethos of taking the time to do hard things
• 23:15 - The impact of a conversation between Nick and Wendell Berry
• 29:00 - More about Nick’s book, Where the Deer and the Antelope Play
• 42:15 - How Nick discusses serious topics with a lighthearted demeanor
• 47:30 - How Aldo Leopold influenced Nick
• 51:45 - A great story about Wendell Berry and the need for artists
• 55:15 - How and when Nick developed his authenticity 
• 1:02:00 - The two jokes Nick has written in his career
• 1:05:45 - What good work looks like
• 1:18:00 - Discussing how to pronounce words and the importance of not passing judgment
• 1:23:15 - Coming back to “good work”

Information Referenced:

• Nick Offerman
• Offerman Woodshop
• Where the Deer and the Antelope Play by Nick Offerman
• All of Nick's books
• The Rainbow Song by Nick Offerman
• Steppenwolf Theatre
• Ethan Hawke
• Buried Child, a play by Sam Shepherd
• Leo Burmester
• Fidelity, short stories by Wendell Berry
• Watch With Me, short stories by Wendell Berry
• Gandalf
• Minooka, IL
• David Lee Roth
• As I Lay Dying, a play by William Faulkner
• Frank Galati
• Anton Chekov
• Nick on Conan O’Brien
• Megan Mullally
• Will and Grace
• Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere, by Neil Young
• SkyMall   
• John Muir
• Aldo Leopold
• Laura Dunn
• Look and See, directed by Laura Dunn and Jef Sewell, Co-Produced by Nick Offerman
• Mary Berry
• Chess Pie
• Tanya Berry
• Fine Woodworking Magazine with Nick on the cover
• Garbage Land by Elizabeth Royte
• Bottlemania by Elizabeth Royte
• Gowanus Canal
• Redhook, Brooklyn, NY
• Poland, MA
• Kathie Sever
• Matt the Electrician
• “The Bear,” a song by Matt the Electrician
• The Paramount Theatre, Austin TX
• Greta Thunberg
• Han Solo
• Michael Pollan
• Parks and Recreation
• A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold
• Rachel Carson
• DDT
• The Unsettling of America by Wendell Berry
• World Ending Fire by Wendell Berry
• Just Act Naturally by the Beatles
• Garrison Keillor
• Rodney Dangerfield
• Zack Galifianakis
• Sarah Silverman
• Full Bush
• The Last of Us
• Craig Mazin
• Chernobyl
• Paramount Theatre, Denver
• University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
• Lake District, England
• The Shepherd’s Life by James Rebanks
• Pastoral Song by James Rebanks
• The Farmer’s Wife by Helen Rebanks
• White Oak Pastures
• Joel Salatin
• Our Home Place Meat
• John Hodgman
• Judge John Hodgman Podcast
• Siddhartha

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Christy Sing Robertson – On Grit, Hard Work, & Going All In
• Yemi Mobolade – Community Builder
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
• Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
• Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
• Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
• Betsy Gaines Quammen – A Fascinating History of Public Lands in the West
• Shane Doyle – Reverence for the Past, Hope for the Future

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Matt Cahill is the Sagebrush Sea Program Director for the Nature Conservancy. Based out of Bend, Oregon, Matt leads all of TNC’s critical work restoring, managing, and protecting sagebrush habitat across six western states. This is a huge and complex effort– it combines protection and policy work with ground-breaking restoration advances, public and industry partnerships, and local community projects. But as you’ll hear in this conversation, Matt is optimistically leaning into the challenge and making great strides to protect this uniquely Western ecosystem.

To give you some context into the vastness of North America’s sagebrush ecosystem, it spans 150 million acres and is home to 350 rare, threatened, and endangered species. Since 1998, 14 million acres of sagebrush ecosystems have been lost, and currently, we’re losing approximately one million acres to invasive species, catastrophic wildfires, development, improper grazing, and climate change. 70% of the Sagebrush Sea is found on public lands, so efforts to protect, manage, and restore the ecosystem are dependent on creative, action-oriented public-private partnerships. Again, Matt is leading a huge and complex effort!

In this episode, we start our conversation by discussing why the Sagebrush Sea is important, and why even people who live far from the ecosystem should care about it. We discuss the history of the threats to sagebrush, and we also do a deep dive into the specific threat of cheatgrass– a true scourge on the landscapes of the West. We discuss the ecology of sagebrush, how TNC measures success when it comes to protecting such a fragile ecosystem, and the importance of partnering with ranchers. We talk about the efficacy of for-profit approaches to restoration, collaboration with government agencies, and specific cutting-edge approaches to restoration. Matt also explains his career trajectory that led him from the East Coast to becoming obsessed with sagebrush, and he offers several great book recommendations.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, including a few videos and writings by Matt that will provide even more context into this nuanced issue. Thanks to Matt and his team for all of their hard work, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - Description of the Sagebrush Sea
• 7:45 - Why sagebrush matters
• 10:30 - The state of the Sagebrush Sea and how it got there
• 15:15 - Cheatgrass’s impact on the Sagebrush Sea
• 23:30 - TNC’s Sagebrush Sea program
• 26:45 - Exploring the restoration aspect of Matt’s work
• 33:15 - The restoration timeline for sagebrush regions
• 35:30 - Measuring restoration success
• 39:00 - The management portion of Matt’s work
• 41:30 - Matt’s success stories of collaborating with ranchers
• 46:00 - The land protection (acquisition, easement, etc.) portion of Matt’s work
• 49:15 - Evaluating the for-profit wing of conservation of sage grouse habitat
• 43:15 - Discussing TNC’s collaboration across its own programs as well as with government land managers
• 57:00 - How Matt ended up an expert in sagebrush biomes when he grew up on the East Coast
• 1:00:30 - Matt’s book recommendations
• 1:04:00 - Matt’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• The Nature Conservancy
• The Sagebrush Sea program at The Nature Conservancy
• Innovative Restoration article about TNC’s Sagebrush Sea work
• Sagebrush Conservation Design
  • Summary of the Sagebrush Conservation Design
• Matt’s article about the “Defend the Core, Grow the Core” framework
• Sagebrush
• Salt playa
• Burns, OR
• Lander, WY
• Ponderosa pine
• Piñon pine
• Juniper
• Cheatgrass
• Medusahead
• Ventenata/wiregrass
• Cryptobiotic Crust
• Fescue
• Bluebunch Wheatgrass
• Pinedale, WY
• Carlos Fernadez
• Winecup Gamble Ranch
• Matador Ranch
• Red Canyon Ranch
• Taylor Hawes
• Bears Ears National Monument
• Matt Moorehead
• Sagebrush Ocean by Stephen Trimble
• Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
• Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
• Franz Kafka
• Basin and Range by John McPhee
• Encounters with the Archdruid by John McPhee

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Carrie Segil & Duncan Gilchrist – Catalyzing Conservation in Colorado and Beyond
• Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
• Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
• Chris Hawkins – Using Nature to Build Healthier & More Equitable Communities
• Matt Moorhead & Galen Guerrero-Murphy – Grasslands Conservation on the Southern High Plains
• Taylor Hawes – Innovative Conservation in the Colorado River Basin
• Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
• Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests' vocations.

James Prosek is an artist, writer, and naturalist whose work deeply examines our relationship with the natural world. Over the course of his career, he’s focused his artist’s eye and philosopher’s mind on everything from trout to eels, from birds to ocean fishes. For the past two years, he’s been focused on understanding and documenting the grasslands of Texas, and he’s traveled the state examining the diverse plants and wildlife that call the prairie ecosystem home. Beginning on September 16, 2023, the results of his journey around Texas will be on display at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, in his new exhibition titled Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie. 

James was born in Connecticut and, as you’ll hear in our conversation, much of his childhood was spent obsessed with birds, fish, and fishing. He attended Yale Univesity, where at age 19 he published his first book titled Trout: An Illustrated History, which featured seventy of his watercolor paintings of the trout of North America. From there, his curiosity about the natural world continued to intensify, as evidenced by his prolific production of art and writing for many renowned museums and publications. He has also lent his talents to a variety of conservation efforts, most notably his partnership with Yvon Chionard to protect coldwater fisheries habitat. 

James and I share many mutual friends and interests, so it was wonderful to connect with him for this conversation. It’ll only take you a few minutes of listening to realize that James is a deep thinker whose art is the manifestation of his extremely nuanced and fascinating ideas and philosophies. We started out talking about his first memory of interacting with nature, and how he has used drawing and journaling as tools to better understand plants, animals, and concepts. We discuss how the idea of naming plants and animals is an imperfect science, how drawing connects us with our evolutionary past, how philosophy and philosophical thinking inform all of his art, grasslands in Texas, the importance of understanding and respecting place, how James snaps out of creative slumps, his writing process, and he offers plenty of book recommendations. 

As is the case with so many of my guests, I could’ve talked to James for many more hours. So thankfully, this conversation is part one of what will be a two-episode series with James. The second episode will be a live event at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, on Thursday, January 11, 2024. We’ll be continuing this conversation, and we’ll be focusing in more detail on his exploration of the Texas Prairie and his new exhibition, Trespassers. We’ll be releasing more information about this event soon, but I’d love to see some of you at the event in Fort Worth on January 11.

A huge thank you to James for his inspiring art, to the Amon Carter Museum for the opportunity to chat with James, and to all of you for listening. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of James Prosek and the Amon Carter Museum of American Art.

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:15 - James’ first memory of interacting with nature
• 7:00 - When journaling and drawing became standard practices for James
• 10:15 - James’ view on drawing and its connection to our evolutionary past as hunters 
• 15:15 - How drawing fish made James a better angler
• 20:45 - How names affect our thinking about other organisms
• 24:15 - The art that James engaged in parallel to fishing
• 28:00 - How James sharpens his philosophy 
• 39:45 - James’ writing process
• 43:00 - How James establishes connections with places
• 1:00:15 - Whether or not James has gone through an artistic slump
• 1:10:00 - James’ parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Amon Carter Museum of American Art
• Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie
• Rhododendron
• Monarch butterfly
• Fairfield, CT
• National Audubon Society
• Why We Draw: TEDxYale talk by James Prosek
• Warbler
• Brook Trout
• Arctic Char
• Mill River (CT)
• Brown Trout
• Sam Harris
• The Treachery of Images (“This is not a pipe” painting), René Magritte
• Merchant Marines
• Henry David Thoreau
• Ralph Waldo Emerson
• Stephen Jay Gould
• E.O. Wilson
• Alfred Korzybski
• Jupiter, FL
• “Art, Artifact, Artifice” by James Prosek
• The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley
• David Starr Jordan
• Ichthyology
• Louis Agassiz
• Louis Agassiz Fuertes
• On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin     
• This is Not a Pipe by Michel Foucault
• On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense by Frederich Nietzsche
• The Divine Within by Aldous Huxley
• Natural Kind
• Realism
• Nominalism
• Ludwig Wittgenstein
• Kristof Zyskowski
• Peabody Museum, Yale
• Suriname
• “She Unnames Them” by Ursula K. LeGuin
• Robert Behnke
• Colorado State University
• Blue Marlin
• Cape Verde Islands
• Woods Harbor, Nova Scotia
• Bird, Butterfly, Eel by James Prosek
• Orange Milkweed 
• Spencer Wigmore 
• Maggie Addler
• Edwards Plateau in TX
• Indiangrass
• Big Bluestem
• Little Bluestem
• Switchgrass
• Changes in the Land by William Cronon
• Davis Mountains in West Texas
• Broomsedge Bluestem
• Heath Hen
• Martha’s Vineyard
• Prairie Time by Matt White
• Dartmouth Hood Museum

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Live from Maxwell Alexander Gallery
• Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
• Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
• Kelsey Johnson – Chasing Her Artistic Ambitions
• Ivan McClellan – A New Look at the Old West
• Morgan Irons – Finding Her Muse
• Live with the Cowboy Artists of America
• Logan Maxwell Hagege – Artistic Evolution

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Anna Borgman is a Montana-based butcher, chef, and writer whose work focuses on helping people better understand and appreciate the origins of their food. Whether writing an article for Steven Rinella’s MeatEater or helping to field harvest and process a bison, Anna has a gift for helping curious, conscientious people become more educated about the impacts of their food choices. And as you’ll hear in this conversation, her enthusiasm and authenticity are infectious– even after more than an hour of chatting, I felt we only scratched the surface.

Anna grew up in Oregon, and thanks to participation in 4H, she was involved with animals and livestock from an early age. During her teenage years, skiing became her primary passion, and she devoted much of her post-college life to spending as many days as possible in the mountains, oftentimes working multiple jobs to make ends meet. Eventually, through a serendipitous chain of events that we discuss, she found her way into culinary school, which was her gateway into the world of meat and butchery. Through all the various stages of Anna’s career, she’s brought intense devotion– possibly even obsession– to her work, which has resulted in a fascinating life trajectory that is both inspiring and instructive.

Anna and I share so many mutual friends and I’ve been hearing about her and her work for many years, so I was thrilled to have her finally join me for a conversation. We started out discussing her childhood in Oregon and how skiing became her primary focus for so many years. We discuss some of her adventurous international travel experiences, and how those places and the characters she met led her into the world of food. We discuss the upsides of obsession, advice for getting out of ruts, the value of curiosity, and the importance of experiencing other cultures. She also talks in detail about the realities of slaughtering livestock, why she feels such a connection to butchery, her favorite books, and much more.

Even though this was my first time meeting Anna, I felt like I was chatting with an old friend. I’m super-inspired by all of her work, but even more inspired by the focus and passion she brings to everything she does. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Anna Borgman and Chloe Nostrant

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

... or wherever you get your podcasts!

—

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:00 - What Anna wanted to be when she grew up
• 7:30 - When Anna realized that most livestock she raised would led to slaughter 
• 10:00 - Anna’s interest in skiing and how it led her to work with a French cook in Australia and adventures in Spain
• 16:30 - Anna’s experience in culinary school
• 20:15 - Why so many interesting people have pastry making on their resume
• 22:15 - When Anna became interested in butchery, and whether or not working long days in culinary school made Anna feel more content
• 25:45 - The importance of having an obsession
• 28:45 - Anna’s advice for getting out of a rut 
• 32:00 - The scariest things that have happened to Anna during international travel, as well as the lessons travel taught her
• 38:30 - When Anna went all in on butchery
• 43:00 - The process of slaughtering and butchering
• 46:30 - Anna’s first slaughter
• 51:45 - Lessons from butchery
• 57:00 - The value of curiosity 
• 59:45 - Discussing Forage Fed
• 1:03:45 - Anna’s book recommendations
• 1:09:00 - Anna’s guilty pleasures (or lack thereof)
• 1:14:00 - Anna’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:

• Anna Borgman
  • MeatEater
  • Instagram
  • Forage Fed
• North Bridger Bison
• Bend, OR
• Powell Butte, OR
• 4-H
• University of Utah
• Thredbo Ski Resort
• Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain
• Basque Country 
• San Sebastian, Basque Country
• Basque History of the World by Mark Kurlansky
• Salt by Mark Kurlansky
• Cod by Mark Kurlansky
• Cascade Culinary Institute
• Kathie Sever 
• Fort Lonesome
• Diplomat Cream
• Enneagram
• Bilbao. Spain
• Sam Harris
• Matt Skoglund
• Article about Anna in Deseret News
• Amsterdam Meat Shop
• Amsterdam, MT
• Camas Davis
• Good Meat Project
• Temple Grandin
• Adam Gall 
• Kate Kavanaugh
• Ryan “Cal” Callaghan
• Backcountry Hunters and Anglers (BHA)
• Back40 Property
• Mark Kenyon
• Wild and Whole
• Danielle Prewett
• Blackbird restaurant
• One Montana Master Hunters Group
• Raw Deal by Chloe Sorvino
• Old Salt Co-op
• American Lucifers by Jeremy Zallen
• Moby Dick by Herman Melville
• The End of Night by Paul Bogard
• Seeing Silence by Pete McBride
• Call Sign Chaos by James Mattis

Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

• Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival
• Kate Mannix – A Legacy of Land Stewardship
• Kate Kavanaugh – Regeneration & Restoration
• Mark Kenyon – A Passion for Public Lands
• Kelsey Johnson – Chasing Her Artistic Ambitions
• Matt Pierson – Finding New Solutions for Food Insecurity
• Amber Smith – Creating Connection & Community
• Cate Havstad-Casad, Part 2 – Building Businesses for the Greater Good

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes

Carrie Segil is the People and Culture Manager at The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and Duncan Gilchrist is a Climate and Natural Resources Policy Associate at The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. Both Carrie and Duncan are deeply involved with TNC Colorado’s Catalyst Fund, a cutting-edge conservation funding initiative that supports forward-looking projects that enable innovation and rapid learning, both to test new ideas and to build greater capacity for innovation over the long term.

One of the Catalyst Fund’s most notable projects involves agrivoltaics, which is the simultaneous use of land for both solar energy production and agriculture. The project is called the Agrivoltaics Retrofit Partnership, and it’s a Boulder-based partnership between TNC, Jack’s Solar Garden, Drylands Agroecology Research, Boulder Housing Partners, and a conservation-justice / community outreach partner called FLOWS. The project aims to achieve multiple conservation and community objectives, including restoring degraded land, producing perennial plants with medicinal, economic, and indigenous cultural value, and providing a host of benefits to local marginalized community members– benefits that we discuss in this episode.

In this episode, we talk in detail about this specific agrivoltaics project, as well as some of the other innovative projects that are being pushed forward thanks to support from the Catalyst Fund. We discussed how and why TNC Colorado decided to create the Catalyst Fund in the first place, and the need to push boundaries and take risks in the conservation space. Carrie offers insights into specific Catalyst projects, such as virtual fencing for bison, and Duncan discusses all the details about this agrivoltaics project– including the genesis of the idea, the challenges of the projects, and why it has proven to be so successful and replicable. We also discuss how policy on the state and federal level is creating more opportunities for agrivoltaics, why it garners bipartisan support, and lessons learned from all of the Catalyst Fund projects.

I was so impressed with Carrie and Duncan’s enthusiasm, professionalism, and commitment to innovation, and I learned so much from this conversation. Be sure to check out the episode notes to learn more about everything we discussed, and please share this episode with any friends or colleagues who might find it valuable.  Thanks so much for listening, I hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!

EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado

RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

• 3:30 - An overview of the Catalyst Fund
• 7:00 - Talking to funders about the Catalyst Fund
• 8:45 - How TNC evaluates what it is looking for regarding the Catalyst Fund
• 10:30 - Duncan’s project
• 12:45 - Duncan’s job before his agrivoltaics project
• 14:45 - More on Duncan’s project and his site
• 19:00 - About Boulder Housing Partners, and how they reacted to Duncan’s idea
• 20:30 - How Duncan worked to turn the rocky land he was working into agricultural land
• 22:30 - The outlook for Duncan’s project, and how it stacks up against his expectations
• 25:00 - The federal and state (CO) push for more projects like Duncan’s
• 28:00 - Why agrivoltaics seems to garner bipartisan support
• 29:30 - Why everyone isn’t doing agrivoltaics 
• 31:30 - The potential for grazing under agrivoltaics
• 32:30 - Other synergies between solar energy and agriculture
• 33:30 - Carrie’s outlook on Duncan’s project, and some other projects funded by the Catalyst Fund
• 36:45 - What it’s like for TNC to work with external partners
• 37:45 - Other projects funded through the Catalyst Funds
• 40:00 - Big lessons from the Catalyst Fund project
• 45:00 - The power of advocating for policy
• 47:15 - Where the Catalyst Fund is going
• 51:00 - Carrie and Duncan’s book recommendations
• 53:45 - Closing thoughts

Information Referenced:

• Catalyst Fund
• TNC Colorado
• TNC New York 
• Jennifer Chin
• Palmer Land Conservancy
• Bessemer Farmland Conservation Project
• JE Canyon Ranch
• Matt Moorehead 
• Mirr Ranch Group
• Agrivoltaics
• Byron Kominek
• Jack’s Solar Garden
• Longmont, CO
• Drylands Agroecology Research
• Boulder Housing Partners
• Wish Garden Herbs
• Katherine Hunziker
• FLOWS - Foundations for Leaders Organizing for Water and Sustainability
• Tim Beal 
• Nick DiDomenico
• Lemon Balm
• Flax
• Thyme
• Colorado White Sage
• Fennel
• Agricultural Producers Use Of Agrivoltaics Act
• Rob Addington
• JJ Autrey
• Silver Mountain Preserve
• Call Sign Chaos by Jim Mattis
• Galen Guerrero-Murphy
• Carlos Fernandez
• Taylor Hawes
• Lean Impact by Ann Mei Chang
• Sandra Boynton
• Already Free by Bruce Tift
• Boulder Shambhala Center