Betsy Gaines Quammen is a historian and conservationist, and she’s also the author of the excellent book American Zion: Cliven Bundy, God, & Public Lands in the West. Betsy has enjoyed a long career in the conservation world, working on issues ranging from grizzly bears in the West to fish in Mongolia to wildlife in East Africa. She also holds a doctorate in Environmental History from Montana State University, where her dissertation focused on the Mormon settlement of the West and public land conflicts. With such a depth of expertise on such a wide range of subjects, I was thrilled to have Betsy join me for a conversation about her book, public lands, and the West.
American Zion had been recommended to me numerous times since it was published in early 2020. Many of my most knowledgeable friends told me it was a must-read for anyone trying to make sense of the present-day threats to public lands here in the West. Well, I finally read it a few weeks ago, and I can confirm that my friends were correct– the book provided me with much-needed, nuanced context for understanding both specific public lands controversies and broader political threats. It also provided fascinating insights into the mindsets and goals of the Bundy family– the people behind the infamous occupation of Malheur Wildlife Refuge and the Battle of Bunkerville. I was also fascinated by the beliefs of the Bundys and their ancestors, and how their ideas about everything from religious texts to the US Constitution have influenced public discourse in the West and beyond.
Betsy and I connected last week and had a fun and educational conversation about everything from her career as a conservationist to her in-person interactions with the Bundy family. We started out discussing how she became interested in the West and why the Morman settlement of the West became the focus of her work. We discuss the Mormon prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and how and why Mormons settled in the West. We talked about how perceived persecution by the US government has served as a faith-building experience for the Bundys and their followers, and whether or not the Bundys truly believe the prophesies that they preach. We discuss the Sagebrush Rebellion, the Malheur takeover, the Battle of Bunkerville, and how Betsy thinks about her personal safety when writing about potentially violent people. She also talks about how American Zion was positively received by her Mormon friends, describes her current book project, and recommends tons of books that you’ll want to check out. Links to everything are in the episode notes.
It was great to finally have the opportunity to chat with Betsy, and I sincerely appreciate her taking the time. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Top photos courtesy of Betsy Gaines Quammen, book photo by Ed
LISTEN:
—
Download on Apple Podcasts
—
Download on Spotify
—
Download on Google Podcasts
—
Download on Overcast
EPISODE NOTES:
Topics Discussed:
- 6:00 – Betsy reads her opening paragraph from her book American Zion
- 8:45 – Betsy explains how she became interested in the western US
- 10:00 – Betsy talks about why she began looking into Mormon history in the western states
- 14:45 – Betsy talks about her research and interactions regarding the Bundy family and their anti-federal government activities
- 22:00 – Betsy discusses the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and how that impacted many rural attitudes towards land management and the federal government
- 27:00 – Betsy discusses her personal interactions with Cliven Bundy
- 31:00 – Betsy explains the depth of the Bundy’s faith and how that plays out in their political and anti-government action
- 31:30 – Betsy talks about the Bundys’ action after she published her book and explores the differences between the Malheur and Bunkerville incidents
- 34:00 – Betsy talks discusses the implications of her writing for her personal safety
- 35:45 – Betsy explains why any public land user should care about what the Bundys are doing.
- 40:45 – Betsy explains how anti-Semitism and the Sagebrush Rebellion laid the groundwork for the misinformation that is rampant today
- 46:00 – Betsy talks about how her book was received by her Mormon friends
- 50:30 – Betsy discusses her current work
- 52:45 – Betsy’s recommended books about the West
- 1:03:00 – Betsy’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Betsy Gaines Quammen
- American Zion by Betsy Gaines Quammen
- Evergreen, CO
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Colorado College
- Nairobi, Kenya
- Doug Peacock
- Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – LDS, Mormons
- Terry Tempest Williams
- Under the Banner of Heaven by John Krakauer
- New TV series based on the book
- Bundyville
- Sarah Dant, Weber State
- Weber State University
- Malheur Wildlife Refuge
- Occupation
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy
- Ammon Bundy
- Joseph Smith
- Zion
- Zion National Park
- Sagebrush Rebellion
- Bunkerville, NV
- The Battle of Bunkerville
- The Wilderness Act
- The Endangered Species Act
- Monroe Mountain
- Piute County
- Q-Anonymous conspiracy theories
- Cleon Skousen
- Glenn Beck
- John Birch Society
- Stewart Rhodes, Oathkeepers
- January 6th insurrection
- Mitt Romney
- Mike Lee
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Burns, OR
- The Rothschilds
- 1992 UN Earth Summit to Address Sustainability in the 21st Century
- Agenda 21
- California dad killed his kids over QAnon and ‘serpent DNA’ conspiracy theories, feds claim
- LDS statement about the occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge
- Logan, UT
- Fools Crow by James Welch
- Blackfeet Nation
- Close Range: Wyoming Stories by Annie Proulx
- Includes Brokeback Mountain by Annie Proulx
- Ceremony by Leslie Marmon Silko
- Pueblo of Laguna
- Deb Haaland
- House Made of Dawn by N. Scott Momaday
- Kiowa Tribe
- Chris La Tray
- Annie Helen Peterson
- Hal Herring
- Fifty-Six Counties by Russel Roland
- The Mountain Meadows Massacre by Juanita Brooks
- Rick Bass
- Torrey House Press
- Amy Irvine
- David Gessner
- Patagonia Books
- Fantasyland by Kurt Andersen
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Shane Doyle – Reverence for the Past, Hope for the Future
- Adam Gall – A Reverence for Wildlife & Wild Places
- Chris La Tray – Rediscovering His Past, Writing His Future
- Hal Herring – A Man of Words & Wild Places
- Mark Kenyon – A Passion for Public Lands
- Heather Hansman, Part 2 – The Fascinating Story of Skiing’s Past, Present & Future
- Sara Dant – A Deep Dive Into the History of the West
- David Gessner, Part 3 – A Confluence of Conservation Ideals
- Becky Edwards – Amplifying the Power of Women in the West
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
