Podcast Archives • Page 7 of 9 • Mountain & Prairie

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:00 – Where Becca grew up
6:10 – Decision to study natural resources at University of Kentucky
8:45 – Working in Costa Rica
10:00 – Decision to move West
11:30 – First jobs in Idaho
14:30 – Bravery to move out West on her own
16:30 – Becca’s Buddhist, vegetarian grandmother’s influence
19:30 – Working conditions as a forest ranger
21:00 – Importance of discomfort and fear
25:00 – Starting to work at the Idaho Wildlife Federation
29:15 – Importance of politics
30:00 – Threat to public lands
34:30 – Learning to hunt
38:30 – Hunting lessons learned from year to year
42:45 – Artemis sportswomen
45:20 – Need for diversity in hunting and conservation
47:00 – Advice for novice hunters
49:15 – Becca’s most recent hunting trip
57:00 – Writing
1:00:15 – Favorite books
1:02:30 – Favorite films
1:04:30 – Out-of-the-ordinary hobbies
1:06:00 – Favorite location in the West
1:07:00 – Best advice ever received
1:08:30 – Words of wisdom
1:10:00 – Connect with Becca

Information Referenced:

Idaho Wildlife Federation
Artemis Sportswomen
University of Kentucky
Stanley, Idaho
Frank Church Wilderness
Conservation Leaders for Tomorrow conference
National Wildlife Federation
Coming Into the Country by John McPhee
Encounters with the Archdruid by John McPhee
Draft No. 4 by John McPhee
The Solace of Open Spaces by Gretle Erhlich
The Snow Leopard by Peter Matthiessen
Never Cry Wolf
265 Images of Northern Rocky Mountain Wildflowers by Scott Earle

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Posted on October 17, 2019 by ELR

Conservation, Conservationists, Hunting & Fishing

Duke Phillips III (photo by Charles Post)

Duke Phillips III is the founder and CEO of Ranchlands, a Colorado-based, family-owned ranch management company. If Ranchlands sounds familiar, that’s because last week’s episode was with Duke’s son, Duke Phillips IV. You may remember that the younger Duke referenced his father’s philosophies around business and leadership several times, so I thought it would be fun to have the elder Duke on the podcast for an in-depth conversation. And in-depth it was—in a little under an hour we covered a wide range of subjects, everything from the future of ranching to world travels to poetry.

Duke has led a fascinating life, starting with his early years spent growing up on a remote cattle ranch in rural Mexico. His twenties were devoted to traveling and working around the world, including places like Europe, Central America, Australia, and the Bering Sea. Around age thirty he started his first “real job” in ranching, which eventually led to the formation of his company Ranchlands. Since its beginnings over two decades ago, Ranchlands has set a new standard what is possible when ranching, conservation, education, and business are successfully combined. And Ranchlands partnership with Colorado’s State Land Board is a case study in effective, mutually beneficial public-private partnerships.

I caught up with Duke on the phone, where he was gracious enough to take time away from one of his New Mexico operations to chat with me. We started by talking about his childhood in Mexico and the lessons he learned from growing up in such a wild and remote landscape. Then we discussed the series of travels and jobs that led to his founding Ranchlands in his mid-forties. From there, our conversation hits on a variety of subjects, including the joys of working with his kids, Duke III and Tess, the ins-and-outs of the bison ranching business, and his thoughts on the recent popularity of regenerative agriculture. There’s minimal overlap between the topics covered in this conversation and my conversation with young Duke, so be sure to check the episode notes for a full list of all the interesting information discussed.

Palmer Land Trust will be honoring Duke and his family at the 10th Annual Southern Colorado Conservation Awards on October 3rd in Colorado Springs. It’s going to be a fun and inspiring evening, so follow the link in the episode notes for more information and tickets. Hope to see you there!

Enjoy the podcast!

All photos courtesy of Charles Post, who also generously donated his Ranchlands photos to Palmer Land Trust for promotion of the 2019 Southern Colorado Conservation Awards.

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:30 – Where Duke grew up
6:30 – Lessons learned from growing up in Mexico
8:30 – Having patience with those new to ranching
9:45 – Leaving Mexico
11:50 – World travels and adventures in his 20s
14:30 – First “real job”
15:45 – Lead-up to Chico Basin
17:00 – Ranchlands explained
22:00- Ranchlands’ grazing philosophy
26:00 – Joys of working with Tess and Duke IV
27:30 – Keys to running a successful family business
29:30 – Keeping kids humble
31:20 – Importance of positivity in life and business
35:00 – Importance of honesty in business
37:40 – Successful partnerships with Colorado’s State Board and The Nature Conservancy
41:30 – Running a bison ranch
45:00 – Regenerative agriculture
48:30 – Heroes and mentors
52:00 – The future of ranching
54:00 – Favorite books and poetry
56:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience

Information Referenced:

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Posted on September 26, 2019 by ELR

Agriculture, Conservation, Conservationists, Ecology, Entrepreneurs, Leadership, Ranchers, Regenerative Ag, Service

Duke Phillips IV (photo by Charles Post)

Duke Phillips IV is the Chief Operating Officer of Ranchlands, a Colorado-based ranching and ranch management company that is widely celebrated for its deep conservation ethic. Duke oversees all operations across Ranchlands’ properties, which include the renowned 87,000-acre Chico Basin Ranch and the 103,000-acre Medano Zapata Ranch. Working closely with his father Duke III and his sister Tess, the Duke and his family share a commitment to long-term land stewardship, and they embody the Ranchlands philosophy of “Working together to live with the land.”

As part of a multi-generational ranching family in southeastern Colorado, Duke grew up with one foot in the ranching culture and the other in a more traditional life of school, sports, and typical childhood activities. After college, he decided to return to the family business, where he began to work his way up through the ranks to his current role of COO. Along the way, he learned lessons in leadership, humility, conservation, stockmanship, and business, many of which he shares with me during this conversation. Duke is one of the more humble and understated people I’ve met, especially when considering all that he’s accomplished so early into his career.

I met Duke out at the Chico where we sat around his kitchen table and chatted– and it was truly a delightful conversation. We talked about the operations at their ranches, delving into some of the details around their breed of cattle, the Beefmaster. We discussed the apprentice and intern programs at Ranchlands, and why he and his family value teaching and educating both the general public and the next generation of land stewards. We discussed Duke’s thoughts on leadership and the importance of being humble and calm in all situations. He also explains Ranchlands open gate policy, and how that philosophy differs from some of the conventional wisdom around access to land in the West. We also discuss books, his heroes and mentors, flying helicopters, lessons learned from living and working internationally, and much more.

Finally, I wanted to note that Ranchlands will be honored at Palmer Land Trust’s 10th Annual Southern Colorado Conservation Awards on October 3rd in Colorado Springs. We’ll be debuting a short film about the Phillips family that highlights some of their innovative conservation work throughout the state. I guarantee it will be an inspiring and fun evening.

There are many important lessons to be learned from this conversation with Duke– check the episode notes below for a full list of everything we discussed. Hope you enjoy!

All photos courtesy of Charles Post, who also generously donated his Ranchlands photos to Palmer Land Trust for promotion of the 2019 Southern Colorado Conservation Awards.

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:30 – Background on Chico Basin
6:00 – Chico Basin’s open gate policy
8:00 – Education and birding programs on the ranch
11:15 – Background on open gate policy
14:00 – Beefmaster cattle breed
19:00 – Ideal characteristics of the Beefmaster breed
22:15 – Good books about grazing and ranching
23:30 – How travel and education have shaped their business
25:00 – Finishing high school and starting college
28:00 – Choice to study liberal arts
30:00 – Internship and apprentice program
34:00 – Traits Duke looks for in employees
40:00 – Duke’s evolution as a leader
42:00 – Importance of good communication
44:00 – Heroes and mentors
49:00 – Importance of being positive
54:00 – Importance of controlling anger
56:30 – Favorite books
59:00 – Flying helicopters and planes
1:01:30 – Using helicopters in ranching
1:03:10 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:07:30 – Favorite place in the West

Information Referenced:

Ranchlands
Chico Basin Ranch
Medano Zapata Ranch
Colorado State Land Board
The Nature Conservancy
Charlie Russell
Lasater Family
Becca Frucht
The Lasater Philosophy of Raising Cattle by Laurance M Lasater
Endurance by Alfred Lansing
Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne
Jim Kane by JPS Brown
The Outfit by JPS Brown
Forests of the Knight by JPS Brown
Tribe by Sebastian Junger
10th Annual Southern Colorado Conservation Awards
SCCA Film Trailer

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Posted on September 20, 2019 by ELR

Agriculture, Conservation, Conservationists, Ecology, Entrepreneurs, Leadership, Ranchers, Regenerative Ag, Service

Live in Bozeman!

This episode is a special recording from a Mountain & Prairie live podcast in Bozeman, Montana. On August 30th more than 300 folks gathered at the historic Ellen Theatre in downtown Bozeman to watch, listen, and participate in a wide-ranging conversation with four amazing women of the West—hat-maker and farmer Cate Havstad; silversmith and all-around artist Jillian Lukiwski; adventure photographer and writer Becca Skinner; and rancher and county commissioner Juanita Vero. We also held a raffle that benefited the Montana Land Reliance and the critical conservation work it is doing throughout the state of Montana.

The show started out with a hilarious, high-energy welcome from the amazing Becca Frucht, who is one of the funniest and most unique human beings I’ve ever met. Then I spent about an hour and fifteen minutes asking the women questions about their lives, work, and a shared love of western landscapes. After that, we had some excellent questions from the audience, followed by a few words from the Jessie Weisse from the Montana Land Reliance. As you’ll hear, a good bit of our conversation centered around the land, conservation, and agriculture, so it was very fitting that the Montana Land Reliance was such an important part of the evening. My only complaint about the event is that I wish it could’ve been much longer—as you’d expect, we only scratched the surface of all the fascinating topics we could’ve discussed.

A heartfelt thank you to Cate, Jillian, Becca, and Juanita for being so open, thoughtful, and funny with all of their answers—the evening would not have been even a fraction of the success it was without their participation. Thanks to Becca Frucht for her energizing welcome and for figuring out a way to work Road House into her remarks. Thank you to the Montana Land Reliance for all of their important work throughout the state and for being part of the evening. A huge thanks to our sponsors—Chris Dombrowski Fly Fishing, Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, ONDA Wellness, Modern Huntsman, Beargrass Writing Retreat, Heyday, Head West Bozeman, and Big Agnes. And last but definitely not least, thanks to everyone who attended the event—I know we had people travel to Bozeman from many other states and even Canada for the show, so I can’t thank you all enough for being such important members of this podcast community.

It was truly a night to remember, and I’m excited to do more live shows in 2020, so stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, enjoy this audio version of the Mountain & Prairie Podcast, live in Bozeman!

All photos by Jasper Poore

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:30 – Welcome from the great Becca Frucht
8:30 – A few words from Ed
11:30 – Quick intros
13:00 – Update on Cate’s involvement in farming
15:30- Juanita’s entrance into county politics
20:00 – Jillian’s evolving connection to her place
21:00 – Becca’s immersion in private land conservation
27:30 – Juanita’s thoughts on private land conservation
32:00 – Jillian discusses the importance of hard work and adventure in wild places
35:30 – Cate discusses the business realities of farming
44:00 – Jillian and Becca talk about “putting herself out there”
47:30 – Using social media productively
50:00 – Other places the ladies would choose to live
55:30 – Best books read in the past year
1:01:30 – How their husbands/partners bolster them as individuals
1:06:30 – Jillian’s “Big Enough Theory”
1:12:00 – Q&A – Mentors and mentoring
1:17:00 – Q&A – Roots to the past in the women’s trades
1:20:30 – Q&A – Role of horses in the ladies lives
1:28:00 – Q&A – Balancing development and conservation in Montana
1:35:30 – Q&A – How do we connect people with their food
1:40:15 – A few words from the Montana Land Reliance

Information Referenced:

Cate Havstad
Jillian Lukiwski
Becca Skinner
Juanita Vero
Becca Frucht
Montana Land Reliance
Road House clip
Robert Krapfel podcast
Jim Howell podcasts 1 and 2
For the Love of Land by Jim Howell
Montana block management
“Extinction of Experience” by Pyle, explained
Wendell Berry
Palmer Land Trust
The Unsettling of America by Wendell Berry
It All Turns on Affection by Wendell Berry
Dirt by David Montgomery
The Hidden Half of Nature by David Montgomery
Growing a Revolution by David Montgomery
American Serengeti by Dan Flores
Neither Wolf Nor Dog by Kent Nerburn
Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher by Timothy Egan
Lentil Underground by Liz Carlisle
Grain by Grain by Liz Carlisle
Claiming Ground by Laura Bell
The Biggest Little Farm
Dare to Lead by Brene Brown
Tom Morgan Rodsmiths podcast
Seth Godin
Sarah Wentzel-Fisher podcast
Stacy Townsend (who made the epic Road House poster)

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR SPONSORS!

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William deBuys is a renowned writer and conservationist who is known as one of the most influential thinkers in the modern-day American West. To call Bill prolific would be a blatant understatement—a few of his many books include The Walk, A Great Aridness, River of Traps, and The Last Unicorn. For more than 40 years, Bill has owned and tended a small farm in the Sangre de Cristo mountains of northern New Mexico, a property that has heavily influenced his life, work, and appreciation for land. I was fortunate enough to meet Bill at his farm for this interview, which was a thrill and an experience I won’t soon forget.

Bill was born and raised on the east coast but moved to New Mexico after college to take a job as a research assistant with writer Robert Coles. Bill found himself immersed in the arid landscape of the American Southwest and very quickly fell in love with the people, culture, and terrain. From then on, Bill’s life and work centered around the land, whether earning his Ph.D., working for the Nature Conservancy and The Conservation Fund, or pursuing full-time writing. His life serves as an inspiring case study of how to meld on-the-ground conservation work with high-level aspirational writing and journalism.

My biggest challenge with this conversation was figuring out how to fit five hours of questions into a single hour! We start by discussing how Bill ended up in New Mexico, and then chat a good bit about his farm. We discuss lessons learned from his work in land conservation, and techniques he uses to find common ground among competing stakeholders. We talk a lot about his writing process and routine, including Bill’s excellent advice related to the technical and psychological aspects of writing. We also discuss several of his books, and how writing each book has influenced his perspective and appreciation for his beloved New Mexico home. Bill offers up a useful and completely unique technique for summoning gratitude, a practice I believe we all can benefit from. And as usual, we discuss his favorite books, his favorite location in the West, and the best advice he ever received.

It was a dream come true to spend time with Bill at his farm, so I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Be sure the check the episode notes for links to everything we discussed!

Header photo courtesy of Bill deBuys, headshot by Ben Moscona

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:30 – El Valle, New Mexico, described
5:45 – How Bill ended up in New Mexico
10:30 – Work with The Nature Conservancy and The Conservation Fund
12:30 – Lessons learned from conservation work
14:30 – Early writing experience
15:25 – Looking back at old work
16:30 – Understanding and appreciating “place”
19:45 – How Bill wrote “The Walk”
22:15 – Dealing with feedback on his writing
23:15 – The writer’s mindset
24:30 – Bill’s writing process
29:00 – Decision to focus mostly on writing
30:15 – Discussion of his book “A Great Aridness”
34:25 – Actionable ideas for dealing with climate change
38:00 – Valles Caldera Trust
42:00 – Techniques for finding common grounds
45:30 – “The Last Unicorn” and other international adventures
46:50 – Influentials writers and thinkers
49:00 – Teaching and its influence on his work
51:00 – Favorite books
53:00 – Practice of writing down all the “aunts and uncles”
55:00 – Most powerful outdoor experience
56:10 – Threats to ANWR and the Rio Grand corridor
59:25 – Favorite location in the West
59:30 – Best advice ever received

Information Referenced:

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Posted on September 4, 2019 by ELR

Books, Conservation, Creativity, History, Writers

Emilene Ostlind is a Wyoming-based journalist and storyteller whose work focuses on the landscapes, natural resources, and communities of the American West. She may be best known for her work studying and documenting the long-distance migration of pronghorn antelope from Grand Teton National Park down into the Green River Valley—a topic that was the basis for her graduate school thesis, as well as her award-winning High Country News cover story about the “Path of the Pronghorn.” Emilene is also the editor of Western Confluence, an amazingly informative, entertaining, and free magazine published by the University of Wyoming’s Ruckelshaus Institute of Environment and Natural Resources. And if all of that is not enough, she is also working closely on the production of an upcoming documentary called Deer 139, which tells the story of a mule deer’s migration across Wyoming and a researcher’s attempt to follow that same path on foot.

Emilene grew up at the base of the Big Horn Mountains in Wyoming, a third-generation Wyomingite from a family closely connected to ranching and the land. After earning her undergraduate degree from the University of Wyoming, she landed a job in Washington DC with National Geographic, where she learned first hand the power of storytelling as a means of communicating important, complex issues. She returned to the University of Wyoming for a graduate degree in creative nonfiction writing, with a focus on understanding and documenting pronghorns’ migration patterns throughout her home state. Along with photographer Joe Riis, they explored the mountains of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, shedding light on one of the lower 48’s last remaining big game migration corridors.

If you’ve enjoyed my conversations with folks like Dan Flores and Bryce Andrews, then you’ll love this episode. We dig deep into the specifics of pronghorns and discuss why they are one of the more interesting and impressive North American mammals. We talk about how Emilene initially became interested in pronghorn migrations, and how the project began and played out over several years. We also discuss her work editing Western Confluence and the 2018 book Wild Migrations. As you’d expect, we discuss her upbringing in Wyoming, her career path in storytelling, and she offers some excellent advice for aspiring journalists who’d like to follow a similar path. And of course we discuss favorite books, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to all of those– there are a lot of new titles.

I encourage you to subscribe to Western Confluence—it’s totally free which is quite a deal when you consider just how much you’ll learn from reading it. But in the meantime, enjoy my fun and educational conversation with Emilene Ostlind.

Photos courtesy of Emilene Ostlind

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:30 – Emilene’s family history in Wyoming
7:00 – Her life-long interest in storytelling
8:00 – Experience at National Geographic
12:30 – Heading back West from DC
13:30 – Genesis of pronghorn migration idea
15:00 – Applying to grad school
17:00 – “Path of the Pronghorn”
21:50 – Pronghorns explained
26:30 – Reception of migration story by the general public
30:00 – Steps that landowners can take to help animal migrations
35:00 – Wyoming as a last major migration corridor
37:30 – “Deer 139”
41:20 – Storytelling through film
44:45 – Western Confluence
50:00 – Mentors, heroes, and books
53:30 – “Wild Migrations”
56:40 – Advice to aspiring storytellers
59:45 – Favorite books about the West
1:01:00 – Favorite films
1:02:00 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:03:40 – Favorite location in the West
1:05:00 – Best advice she’s ever received
1:06:15 – Request of the listeners
1:07:40 – Connect with Emilene

Information Referenced:

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Posted on August 19, 2019 by ELR

Adventurers, Conservation, Creativity, Ecology, History

PART 1: Behind the Scenes with Ed – Cutting-Edge Land & Water Conservation in the West

This episode is a little different—this is part one of a two-part series in which I’m the one in the hot seat. It’s a repost of my recent appearance on the Quivira Coalition’s excellent podcast called “Down to Earth – The Planet to Plate Podcast.” They were nice enough to invite me on to discuss some of my conservation work at Palmer Land Trust, particularly around our focus of conserving irrigated farmland in southeastern Colorado. It’s fascinating work that hits on many of the issues we’ve previously discussed here on Mountain & Prairie—water rights, pressures facing agricultural communities, holistic approaches to resource management, balancing the needs of agriculture with that of municipalities, and more. It’s what I spend the vast majority of my time doing, and I hope you’ll find it interesting and informative.

Regardless of whether or not you listen to my episode, I highly encourage you to check out Down to Earth. The host Mary-Charlotte is a journalistic pro who likes to dive deep in the nuances of agriculture and has interviewed some of the most impressive people working in agriculture today (present company excluded). If you’ve enjoyed my past episodes with folks like Jim Howell, Pat O’Toole, Christine Su, and, of course, Quivira Executive Director Sarah Wentzel-Fisher, then I can guarantee you’ll love the Down to Earth podcast. There’s a link to Down to Earth in the episode notes, so be sure to check it out and give them a great iTunes review if you’re so inclined.

Thanks again to Down to Earth for being interested in my work, and thanks to you all for listening. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions. Hope you enjoy!

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PART 2: Behind the Scenes with Ed – A Never-Boring, Often-Crazy Personal Journey

If you listened to the previous episode above, then you know that I’m mixing things up a bit. This is Part 2 of a two-part series in which I’m the one in the hot seat. This episode is a repost of my recent appearance on the Truth & Dare Podcast, a wonderfully inspiring show that features in-depth conversations about personal growth, risk-taking, and living life to the fullest.

In the first part of this two-part series, you’ll remember it being detailed discussion around my professional interests—land, water, and agriculture. This conversation on Truth & Dare is equally detailed and deep, but focused almost exclusively on my personal life—my journey from North Carolina to the West, my obsession with long-distance running, the crazy way that I met my wife, lessons learned for a semester of NOLS, how my wife and girls’ influence has made me a much better person, and much more. Many of the books and ideas that we’ve discussed on Mountain & Prairie play a big role in my personal evolution from wanna-be real estate developer to conservationist, so I wanted to share this with you all.

As you’ll hear, the host Camden is a curious, kind, and natural conversationalist who likes to talk deeply about subjects of substance—not surface-level nonsense. I was turned on to her podcast when she interviewed my friend—artist, surfer, and family-man Kevin Mirsky—and I was thrilled and a little nervous when she asked me to join her on the show. But we had an instant connection and a great conversation that I hope you’ll enjoy. But regardless of my episode, if you are interested in personal growth and stories of people who have taken unconventional paths, you should definitely give Truth & Dare a listen.

A huge thanks again to Camden for having me on, thanks to you all for listening, and I’ll be back with regular Mountain & Prairie episodes in the next few days.

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Posted on August 7, 2019 by ELR

Adventurers, Agriculture, Conservation, Conservationists, Creativity, History, Mindfulness, Regenerative Ag

Morgan Irons is a Montana-based artist whose captivating oil paintings combine the classic style of late 19th-century painters with her own modern-day interpretation of the West’s people and places. When I first discovered Morgan’s art, I assumed I was looking at the work of a classically trained artist who’d been in the trenches of painting for decades… and I couldn’t have been more wrong. Morgan has only been painting since 2015, with virtually no artistic training prior. Her innate talent is matched only by her work ethic and commitment to the craft—she has built her life around the process of making art, which is inspiring and instructive for anyone with creative aspirations.

Morgan was born in Durango and spent her youth in various parts of the West, including Alaska and Idaho. After college in the flat midwest, she immediately returned to more rugged landscapes, working in Alaska and eventually landing in Bozeman. She tried her hand at a “normal” job but found the corporate world to be uninspiring and frustrating. So rather than wallow and complain, she moved on from that job and soon thereafter, discovered her talent for painting. Since then, she’s gone all-in on her career as an artist, and she is building quite a strong following in the art world.

If you are a person who dreams of pursuing your creative passion full time, then you will love this episode—it’s full of actionable ideas around art and the creative process. We talk about the remote cabin where Morgan lives and paints, and why she needs solitude and open spaces for maximum creative output. We discuss her daily routine and how she primes her artistic mindset through hiking, meditation, and writing. We also discuss how she blocks out distractions and her techniques for using the productive aspects of social media while avoiding the time-wasting traps. We obviously talk about the point when she discovered her talent for painting and how she has honed that talent through workshops and mentorships from top painters. Finally, Morgan tells some great stories about hunting for ghosts with her dad, her favorite books, a bear that broke into her car, and the importance of having no “Plan B.” Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Morgan Irons

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

5:00 – Where Morgan is based
6:00 – Why Morgan likes solitude
8:00 – Balancing technology—productivity vs. distraction
11:00 – Morgan’s younger years
12:00 – Heading to college in St. Louis
14:30 – Family history in Alaska
17:30 – Job in Alaska
22:00 – Lessons learned in Alaska
23:00 – Moving in Bozeman
25:15 – Discovering art
27:00 – Buying paint and starting to make art
30:00 – Feelings during the process of painting
32:30 – Learning from the masters while keeping the originality
35:30 – Formal learning from world-class artists
38:00 – Learning from fellow students as well as professors
40:00 – Daily routines
44:00 – Meditation practice
46:30 – Balancing friendships with her need for solo time
50:00 – How the West shapes her work
53:30 – Mentors and artists Morgan admires
56:00 – A non-painting artist who Morgan admires
58:30 – How her psychology degree has helped her art
1:00:00 – Favorite books
1:04:00 – Ghost hunting!
1:08:30 – Crazy bear encounter
1:12:00 – Words of wisdom
1:14:30 – Connect with Morgan online

Information Referenced:

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Posted on July 22, 2019 by ELR

Artists, Creativity

Heather Hansman is a freelance writer and editor whose work explores the intersection of science, adventure, and culture. Her new book Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West should be required reading for everyone who enjoys this podcast—it strikes the perfect balance of being entertaining and educational while examining all sides of the many issues facing the West’s water supply. There are few topics in the West as divisive and emotional as water, and in her book, Heather provides a balanced overview of all the issues, delving deep into the substance of water-related arguments, without crossing over into the mind-numbing jargon that defines most water-related writing.

The book follows Heather’s 730-mile float down the length of the Green River, starting at the base of Wyoming’s Wind River mountains and ending at the confluence of the Green and Colorado Rivers in Utah. Along the way, she meets with a wide range of western water stakeholders—ranchers, farmers, river guides, government employees, scientists, conservationists, and more—and digs into their sometimes competing interests fighting for their shares of water in the West. But the book is far from an academic examination of water law—Heather paddled two-thirds of the river completely alone, so there is also a compelling adventure narrative that runs throughout the book.

To understand most of the challenges facing the West, you need to understand water, and this episode is a perfect place to start. Heather and I start our conversation by laying out some of the basics around water—terminology that you may have heard thrown around but never truly understood. She explains how water in the West is a property right separate from land, and she explains some of the common language used when discussing water. We chat about why the Colorado River is over-allocated, and how transbasin diversions have transformed much of the West into a very large and complex plumbing system. For the second half of the conversation, we discuss Heather’s professional path as a writer, journalist, and former river guide. We talk about why she moved west, her first gig as a professional writer, and some of the tricks of the trade she uses to force herself to write. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and favorite locations in the West.

As a guy who spends much of my day working with water and water rights, I can’t thank Heather enough for writing this book. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did!

Photos courtesy of Heather Hansman

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:15 – Events leading to writing the book
7:30 – Overview of the river trip
11:00 – Women pursuing adventure for adventure’s sake
15:00 – Water as a private property right
16:30 – What does “over-allocation” mean?
19:20 – How do we overcome water shortages?
20:30 – Transbasin diversions and the West’s plumbing system
23:00 – Ins-and-outs of dams
26:00 – Importance of being open-minded to all sides of issues in the West
29:40 – “Water flows uphill towards money”
32:00 – True value of water
33:45 – Potential water crisis
35:00 – Reasons for optimism
39:10 – Early years of river guiding
42:30 – Pursuing a career in journalism
44:30 – Benefits of journalism grad school
45:45 – Process of writing and writing the book
48:00 – Mentors
50:50 – Becoming a full-time writer
52:15 – Favorite books
56:30 – Favorite films
57:30 – Scariest event on the Green River trip
1:02:30 – Favorite location in the West
1:05:00 – Request of the podcast listeners
1:06:30 – Connect with Heather online

Information Referenced:

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Posted on July 9, 2019 by ELR

Adventurers, Agriculture, Books, Conservation, Creativity, Ecology, History, Writers

If you’re a regular Mountain & Prairie listener, then you are undoubtedly familiar with best-selling author David Gessner. He has written several of my all-favorite books, most notably All the Wild That Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West. He was also a past guest on this podcast almost exactly a year ago—a conversation that continues to receive excellent feedback and ranks as one of my most downloaded episodes. Between his writing, teaching, chairing the Creative Writing department at University of North Carolina Wilmington, and his role as a committed family man, David is a busy guy—so I greatly appreciate his sitting down to record a second episode.

We caught up during his annual trip to Colorado and covered a wide range of fascinating topics, all presented with his signature style of deeply considered insightfulness balanced with a hilarious sense of humor. We chatted about his ongoing work on his new book about public lands and Theodore Roosevelt, as well as a recent research trip in which he flew in a Cessna from Colorado to northwest Montana and many places in between. We discussed his thoughts on Theodore Roosevelt, and how his opinions of the man have evolved throughout this book project. David shares more insights into his writing process and how endurance and team sports have helped build his discipline and work ethic as an author. We spend a good amount of time discussing his book Ultimate Glory, digging into the mindset that allowed David to pursue the sport of Ultimate Frisbee—and writing—with laser-focused obsession. We finish up by chatting about some of the best books he’s read in the past year, as well as one relatively unknown author that everyone who loves the West should read.

This episode will obviously be of great interest to people who love the West, but I highly recommend it to anyone who is focused on a creative pursuit—writing, painting, poetry, sculpture, you name it. Thanks to his decades of daily grinding and obsession, David is a shining example of the discipline and commitment required to be a professional artist, and he’s damn good at explaining it in a way that really sinks in.

If you haven’t already, check out my first conversation with David as well—there’s a link in the episode notes. But right now, enjoy this enlightening and hilarious conversation with David Gessner.

Headshot courtesy of David Gessner, Banner photo by Ed

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:00 – The importance of Boulder, Colorado in David’s life and work
9:00 – Endurance feats as a metaphor for writing
11:00 – Importance of having massive goals
12:45 – Importance of ambition
15:00 – Current book project and trip to the West
18:45 – Recent flight around the West
20:00 – Examining TR in a modern context
22:20 – Reluctance to become an activist
25:50 – Changing perspectives on TR
30:00 – Political cartooning
32:00 – David on taking feedback from editors and others
35:15 – Importance of constraints in writing and life
39:50 – Arête
42:15 – Finding camaraderie outside of team sports
46:50 – Teaching the writing mindset
50:50 – Best books David read this year
53:45 – Lesser known authors worth reading

Information Referenced:

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Posted on June 24, 2019 by ELR

Books, Conservation, Creativity, History, Writers

Mike Phillips is the Director of the Turner Endangered Species Fund (“TESF”), an organization that he co-founded in 1997 with Ted Turner. Mike is also a Montana state senator representing District 31, which encompasses parts of his hometown of Bozeman and the surrounding area. In his work as an ecologist, Mike has spent much of his career studying and implementing the reintroduction of wolves throughout the United States. And in both science and politics, he’s never shied away from taking vocal leadership roles involving a wide range of important issues in southwest Montana and beyond.

Mike is very well known for his work with gray wolves in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, and also for his efforts to reintroduce the species into western Colorado. But as you’ll hear in our conversation, wolves are just a small part of his work– his overarching interest is the persistence of many imperiled species, with a particular emphasis on private land’s role in the recovery efforts. Whether considering the fate of monarch butterflies, cutthroat trout, or gray wolves, Mike’s approach is the same– an action-oriented, science-backed strategy toward conserving biological diversity.

No matter where you stand on the issue of gray wolf reintroduction, I encourage you to give this conversation with Mike a very close listen. If you’re like me, you’ll be struck not only by his passion for ecology but by his deep reliance on non-emotional, quantitative scientific data. You’ll also notice his insatiable curiosity and his willingness to change his when presented with compelling new information. And finally, I think you’ll be impressed by his ability to discuss controversial topics such as wolves or politics in a respectful, considered tone that welcomes conversation and input from all sides of the issues.

I can’t thank Mike enough for taking the time out of his busy schedule to chat. This is an important conversation that will make you think, and Mike’s enthusiasm will likely motivate you to dedicate more of your time to a cause that is important to you.

Headshot courtesy of Mike Phillips

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:30 – Beginnings of the Turner Endangered Species Fund
9:30 – Mike’s background in ecology
14:00 – TESF success stories
17:30 – Wolf recovery in Colorado
24:30 – Mike addresses the counterarguments to wolf recovery
35:00 – Mike’s ability to not shy away from conflict—in ecology and politics
39:30 – Decision to enter into politics
43:30 – Importance of being mission and service oriented
44:30 – Lessons learned from baseball
47:30 – Importance of being able to “see around the next corner”
48:30 – Private land’s role in conservation
53:30 – Favorite books
56:00 – Favorite films
58:00 – Favorite location in the West
1:00:00 – Request of the listeners

Information Referenced:

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Posted on June 9, 2019 by ELR

Conservation, Conservationists, Ecology, History, Leadership, Service

James Decker is a farmer, attorney, and the Mayor of Stamford, TX, a tight-knit agricultural community located about 45 minutes north of Abilene. James grew up in Stamford, left for college and law school, but immediately returned home to begin his career– his love of his hometown and desire to contribute to its success far outweighed any material success that could result from practicing law in a big city. With his service-oriented mindset and natural leadership abilities, James worked his way up from city council to Mayor, all while working as an attorney and growing his family.

Like so many devoted small-town mayors, James is driven by a deep desire to see his community thrive, despite the many forces that seem to be conspiring against small-town America. He approaches local politics with an inspiring amount of focus and determination, and he’s not afraid to seek out new ideas from a variety of sometimes-unexpected sources. His weekly essays are worth a read whether you live in Stamford or not– he explores subjects ranging from the nuts and bolts of economic development to the writings of Wendell Berry to quotations from Theodore Roosevelt.

James is a shining example of the positive impact that one passionate person can have when he or she decides to lead with enthusiasm, optimism, and old-fashioned hard work. We covered a lot in our conversation, starting with his upbringing in Stamford and some of the history of the town. We talk about how he chose to return to Stamford after law school, despite having plenty of other opportunities elsewhere. We discuss the challenges facing rural America and how he chooses to approach economic development with an aggressive, proactive posture. We also talk about his mentors and heroes, and how his love of history and biographies inform his leadership. We obviously talk a lot about Wendell Berry and Theodore Roosevelt, as well as his favorite books and our shared love of the greatest movie of all time, Road House.

The West is full of many small agricultural towns, and many of those communities share the same opportunities and challenges facing Stamford. I think you’ll be inspired by this episode, and be sure to check the notes for links to everything we discuss. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of James Decker

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:15 – How James describes his work
5:00 – Stamford, Texas described
7:00 – Family history
8:30 – Growing up in Stamford
9:30 – Choice to return to Stamford
15:30 – Local heroes and mentors
18:00 – What creates community pride?
22:30 – James’s weekly essays
26:00 – Decision to run for mayor
28:00 – Biggest surprise of being mayor
31:30 – Biggest challenge facing Stamford
35:30 – Economic opportunities in small towns
39:45 – Sources of inspirations, Wendell Berry and TR
45:15 – Seeking out different opinions
47:00 – National and local politics
51:45 – How kids have changed James’s perspective
57:00 – Importance of aggression
1:00:00 – Best Texas history books
1:02:30 – Favorite books
1:08:50 – Favorite films
11:11:30 – Hobbies away from work
1:13:30 – Favorite location in the West
1:15:30 – Best advice ever received
1:16:30 – Request of the listeners
1:18:00 – Connect with James

Information Referenced:

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Posted on May 24, 2019 by ELR

Agriculture, Conservation, History, Leadership, Ranchers, Regenerative Ag, Service

Logan Maxwell Hagege (*photo credit:* *Jason Frank Rothenberg* *for Best Made Co.*)

If you love the West and you love art, then you are likely already a fan of Logan Maxwell Hagege. He is a renowned painter whose depictions of the people and landscapes of the West have won him acclaim around the globe. His work is as stunning as it is unique, and when you see one of Logan’s pieces, there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind as to exactly who painted it. He uses bold colors and striking composition to create a style that is entirely his own– a style that continues to evolve, even after all of his success.

Logan was born and raised in California, and he has been an obsessive artist for as long as he can remember. Whether drawing, playing music, surfing, or painting, Logan has always gone “all in” on his creative pursuits. And as you’ll hear, Logan’s tendency towards obsession is fueled by a tireless work ethic and deep commitment to continuing to grow as an artist– he is always pushing himself and refuses to rest on his laurels. That’s not to say that Logan doesn’t suffer from artistic blocks from time to time. But when he does, rather than wallow, he’s developed hard-nosed, time-tested methods of summoning creativity and continuing to push forward.

I’ve been a fan of Logan’s for many years, so I was thrilled to get the opportunity to chat with him. We covered a lot, including his childhood creative obsessions and how his parents nurtured his artistic streak. We talk about his formal art education, and how he made the jump from art student to professional artist. Logan describes the evolution of his work, and how his early paintings are almost unrecognizable when compared to his current style. We chat about how he maintains focus after so many years of professional art, and he describes specific ways that he pushes himself to continue to evolve as an artist. He explains how he knows when a painting is finished, and how having a son has changed his routine and outlook. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and the best advice he’s ever received.

There’s a ton of useful information in this episode so be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything. Enjoy!

“By the Light of Day” by Logan Maxwell Hagege

Photos by Jason Frank Rothenberg for Best Made Co.

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:00 – How Logan describes his work
6:30 – Logan’s childhood artistic endeavors
8:15 – Art education
10:00 – Transition from art school to professional artist
12:15 – Old work compared to new work
15:00 – Transition to a new style of painting
16:45 – Source of Logan’s independence
19:15 – Importance of work ethic
20:30 – How he keeps the artistic motivation alive
21:20 – When the southwest became a focus
23:15 – Logan’s daily creative schedule
25:00 – How parenthood affected Logan’s outlook
26:30 – Logan’s studio spaces
28:00 – The inspiration for Logan’s works
29:45 – How to know when a painting is done
32:00 – Thoughts on looking at others’ artwork
35:00 – What Logan listens to while painting
36:30 – The business of art
38:35 – Mentors and heroes
41:00 – Books on creativity
42:30 – Other non-art activities
46:30 – Favorite books
48:30 – Daily rituals and getting to work
51:00 – More favorite books
52:00 – Favorite films
54:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience
58:45 – Best advice ever received
1:03:30 – Request of the listeners

Information Referenced:

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Posted on May 10, 2019 by ELR

Artists, Craftsmanship, Creativity, Native American History

Mary Rondepierre is a fourth-generation Montanan, avid sportswoman, and a public lands advocate who has explored our nation’s wild places from coast to coast. She is also the Marketing and Experiences Manager at Filson, one of the most renowned and respected outdoor apparel brands anywhere. Currently based in Seattle, Mary has managed to combine her personal and professional passions into an exciting and rewarding career that melds together high-performance business with conservation and time in wide-open spaces.

As a child, Mary grew up in a household that respected the outdoors and valued rich experiences over accumulating endless amounts of “stuff.” Her father worked as a commercial fisherman and logger, wearing– you guessed it– Filson gear to his jobs in the often-brutal environments of Alaska and the West. Mary headed to Oregon State for college, and soon after graduation entered the apparel business, eventually landing at Filson. Since then, she’s worn many hats at the company and now works closely with Filson’s partnership with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, helping to produce their “Campfire Stories” events around the country.

If you’re like me, love the outdoors, and own a ridiculously large stash of gear, odds are you’ve dreamed about working at a well-known outdoor apparel company. Mary’s career serves as an excellent case study for anyone interested in pursuing this path, and she reveals how she managed to land such a dream job. We talk about her education and early career, as well as her decision to work retail at Filson to “get her foot in the door.” We discuss the critical lessons she learned from working on the sales floor, and how those retail experiences inform and enhance her current role at Filson. We chat about an epic road trip she took with her husband in which they visited public lands from coast to coast, and we talk about how her upbringing in rural Montana instilled a deep love and respect of public lands. As usual, we discuss favorite books, places in the West, and the best advice she’s ever received. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Mary Rondepierre

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:30 – How Mary describes her work
6:30 – History of Filson
9:40 – Holding high standards
11:45 – Outdoor apparel marketing
13:30 – Partnership with Backcountry Hunters and Anglers
18:10 – How Mary began working in outdoor apparel
19:00 – Mary’s dad’s secret camps!
20:00 – Family history in Montana
22:55 – Childhood outdoor adventures
24:00 – Decision to leave Montana
26:30 – First job out of college
28:30 – First job at Filson
30:10 – Experience working retail
33:30 – Filson’s “Unfailing Goods”
35:30 – Humility gained from retail
38:00 – Advice to recent college grads
41:00 – Thoughts on reading business books versus real-world experience
44:10 – Epic public lands roadtrip
49:30 – Proposal story!
42:00 – Lessons learned from the road trip
55:00 – Favorite spots in the PNW
59:30 – Awesome TR side conversation
1:01:45 – Mentors
1:04:30 – Favorite books
1:09:00 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:12:45 – Favorite location in the West
1:13:30 – Best advice ever received
1:14:30 – Request of the listeners
1:16:00 – Connect with Mary

Information Referenced:

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Posted on May 3, 2019 by ELR

Conservation, Creativity, Entrepreneurs, Hunting & Fishing

Bryce Andrews – People, Predators, and the American West

Bryce Andrews is a Montana-based rancher, conservationist, and author whose unique set of experiences gives him uncommon insights into the relationship between humans and carnivores in the West. Having worked as a ranch hand, ranch manager, and ranch owner, Bryce understands agriculture and the myriad of challenges faced by producers. As Field Director at the non-profit People and Carnivores, he has gained first-hand knowledge of the predicaments facing large predators in the Rockies. And as an author, he has researched and written extensively about all sides of the issue– most notably in his books Badluck Way and his new book Down from the Mountain, which was published earlier this week.

Bryce grew up in Seattle, far removed from ranching, farming, and the arid ruggedness of the Rocky Mountain West. But soon after college, he landed an entry-level job at the 20,000-acre Sun Ranch, located in Montana’s spectacular Upper Madison River Valley. On the Sun Ranch, Bryce received a trial-by-fire education in the sometimes-problematic relationship between agriculture and wild animals, a relationship he has spent much of his professional career exploring. The latest manifestation of this exploration is Down from the Mountain, an educational, entertaining, and sometimes-heartbreaking book that explores specific interactions between grizzly bears and farms in Montana’s Mission Valley. I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of this book and cannot recommend it enough.

If you are familiar with this podcast and the topics that I love to discuss, then you know that Bryce is a perfect guest. He’s smart, funny, insightful, and has a real gift for explaining complex, sometimes controversial topics in an engaging way. We talked a lot about Down from the Mountain, discussing grizzlies, farming, and the unique location and topography of the Mission Valley. We talk about Bryce’s upbringing in Seattle, and what drove him to explore the West after college. We discuss his work with People and Carnivores, and how his background in agriculture helps him to span the divide between his organization and the farming and ranching communities. Bryce also explains his writing and research process and offers some excellent advice for aspiring authors. And as usual, we spend a lot of time discussing books, authors, and his most powerful outdoor experience.

I encourage you to find a copy of Down from the Mountain and give it a read. You will not be disappointed!

Photos courtesy of Bryce Andrews and HMH Publishing

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:00 – Bryce describes his work
5:20 – How Bryce started ranching
6:30 – First experiences ranching
7:20 – Heading to the Rockies after college
9:00 – Getting a hand-hold in ranching
10:30 – Culture shock of the West
13:50 – First encounter with carnivores
16:30 – Primal thrill of wildlife encounters
17:30 – Work with People and Carnivores
20:00 – Finding common ground in the carnivore controversies
25:00 – “Down from the Mountain”
29:00 – Mission Valley explained
34:00 – Similarities between humans and Grizzlies
37:30 – Unexpected tension of bears in a cornfield
41:20 – Bryce’s history as a writer
42:50 – Favorite/important writers
46:30 – Bryce’s relationship with writing
50:00 – Writing, the flow state, and fear
52:00 – Intense life events versus the boring “real world”
56:15 – Advice for aspiring writers
59:45 – Favorite books about the West
1:01:50 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:03:30 – Request of the listeners
1:05:30 – Connect with Bryce

Information Referenced:

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Jessica Lewis is a Montana-based metalsmith who is best known for the beautifully unique jewelry she creates for her online shop, Ruby and Revolver. She is also the mother of a two-year-old daughter, who she is raising with her husband in the home they constructed with their own hands in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley. Thanks to her tireless work ethic and disciplined creativity, Jessica has built an authentic and full life around the things she loves most– her family, her craft, and Western landscapes.

Montana’s rugged mountains and valleys have been a part of Jessica’s life for as long as she can remember, and even though she has traveled widely, she has always returned to Big Sky Country. The Rocky Mountain landscapes inform many aspects of her work, as does her ethic of “doing more with less.” By American standards, she and her family embrace a purposefully minimalist lifestyle which allows Jessica to focus on quality over quantity in both her professional and personal endeavors. In our world of constant connectivity and endless distraction, I’m truly inspired by Jessica’s genuine and mindful approach toward living a simple yet rich and meaningful life.

Jessica was kind enough to take a break from her numerous projects for this fun conversation about her life, creative process, and love of Montana. We chatted about how she got her start making jewelry and how the impending birth of her daughter inspired her to pursue art full time. We talked about how she began making jewelry with the simplest of tools, and how the desire for fancy equipment can distract from the act of making art. We talk a lot about parenthood, and Jessica explains how becoming a mother shifted her perspectives on work and life. We discuss our shared appreciation for Stoic philosophy, and how several specific books have impacted Jessica’s creativity. We talk about the importance of international travel and wisdom gained from spending time abroad. And as usual, we discuss favorite books about the West, the best advice she’s ever received, and several of her unexpected hobbies.

I really loved the conversation and know you will too. Thanks again to Jessica for taking the time to chat. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Jessica Lewis

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:40 – How Jessica describes her work
5:00 – Jessica’s jewelry described
7:00 – Embracing the rawness of her work
8:50 – Materials used for her jewelry
10:30 – Why she was drawn to metalworking
12:15 – Starting out with simple tools
14:30 – Importance of her studio
17:00 – Making the leap into full-time art
19:45 – The bravery to pursue artistic dreams
22:50 – How kids change parents’ perspectives
23:45 – Creative mentors and influences
25:50 – Books that have influenced creativity
29:30 – Daily routines
30:55 – Importance of exercise
31:50 – Living in the Bitterroot Valley
32:45 – Growing up in Montana
35:30 – International travels*
36:45 – Lessons learned from international travel
39:00 – “Doing more with less”
42:00 – Ed’s weird story about accumulating junk
44:00 – More on parenthood and its effects
46:10 – Advice to new parents
48:30 – Current project of building a new house by hand
52:00 – Jessica’s healthy relationship with technology
57:15 – Advice to aspiring creatives
59:50 – Favorite books
1:03:25 – Favorite films
1:05:30 – Surprising activities
1:07:00 – Favorite location in the West
1:08:30 – Best advice received
1:10:30 – Request of the listeners
1:11:50 – Connect with Jessica online
(*Quick correction – In our discussion around travel, we mistakenly mispoke about Maoist insurgency in Vietnam, which was incorrect. The insurgency was in Nepal, where Jess also worked in the women’s clinic. Apoloigies for any confusion!)

Information Referenced:

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Posted on April 13, 2019 by ELR

Adventurers, Artists, Athletes, Craftsmanship, Creativity, Entrepreneurs, Mindfulness

Len Necefer is a scholar, entrepreneur, and outdoor adventurer who is also a proud member of the Navajo Nation. Academically, Len holds a Ph.D. in engineering and public policy, and he is currently a professor of both Indian Studies and public policy at the University of Arizona. In business, he’s the CEO of NativesOutdoors, a cutting-edge outdoor apparel company that uses its platform to advocate for the cultural empowerment indigenous people. And to top it all off, Len is a committed mountaineer, backcountry skier, and rock climber, having ticked off countless impressive adventures throughout the West.

It is clear that Len has accomplished a lot personally, but what is even more impressive is the positive ripple effect his work is having on the outdoor industry. By melding his professional expertise, personal interests, and cultural heritage, he has become one of the leading voices advocating for Native American representation in outdoor recreation and conservation. His work and personal story have been featured in big-time publications such as Outside and Alpinist, and he’s recently delved into filmmaking with his newest film Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee. As you’ll hear, Len has a unique ability to educate and inspire, and his message is striking a chord with a large, engaged audience.

As you’d expect from a guy as multifaceted as Len, he offers up a wealth of knowledge in our conversation. We talked about his Navajo heritage and discussed the unique history and culture of the Navajo tribe. We chatted about his recent film and discussed the of impact oil and gas development on Native populations in areas such as Bears Ears and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We chatted about the need for mutual respect between the outdoor industry and indigenous groups, and Len explains two fascinating case studies around rock climbing on sacred Native lands. He gives an excellent overview of his company NativesOutdoors, and he explains why he chose to start a business instead of a non-profit. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and the best advice he ever received.

Thanks so much to Len for carving out time to chat. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did!

Photos courtesy of Len Necefer

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:10 – How Len describes his work
6:15 – Len’s early years
7:00 – Navajo background
9:00 – History of the Navajo tribe
12:00 – Len’s new film: “Welcome to Gwichyaa Zhee”
16:15 – Oil and gas development’s impact on humans
19:40 – Historic native management of landscapes
22:15 – Preservation of people as new phase of conservation
27:15 – NativesOutdoors
33:00 – For-profit versus non-profit
34:00 – Native Americans and the outdoor industry
38:30 – Climbing Case Studies: Devil’s Tower versus Bears Ears
43:00 – How does he accomplish so much?
45:00 – Len’s work ethic
48:15 – Best books about Native American culture
50:45 – Favorite books about the West
52:00 – Favorite films
53:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience
56:15 – Favorite locations in the West
57:00 – Best advice ever received
58:30 – Request of the listeners
59:15 – Connect with Len

Information Referenced:

Posted on March 30, 2019 by ELR

Adventurers, Athletes, Conservation, Entrepreneurs, Leadership, Native American History

Chris Dombrowski – Words, Water & the West

Chris Dombrowski is an author, poet, and fishing guide who lives and works in Missoula, Montana. As a writer, Chris is probably best known for his book Body of Water: A Sage, a Seeker, and the World’s Most Elusive Fish, which is one of the best books I’ve read in years. He has also published several collections of poetry, and his newest volume titled Ragged Anthem will be released this week. When you merge Chris’s decades of experience in the outdoors with his phenomenal skills as a wordsmith and creative, the end product is some of the most engaging writing that any outdoor lover could ever hope to read.

Chris grew up in Michigan and was always drawn to fishing, hunting, and outdoor adventure. During high school, his favorite English teacher gave him a copy of A River Runs Through It—he devoured the book in a day and from that point forward he knew he wanted to be a professional writer living in the American West. Over the following years, he began fish guiding in Montana, attended graduate school in Missoula, and built a solid career as a working writer and poet. Along the way, he formed friendships with such notable western writers as Jim Harrison and David James Duncan, and he established his nonprofit writing workshop, the Beargrass Writing Retreat.

If you are interested in creativity, writing, or the writing process, then you will absolutely love this episode with Chris. We discuss that fateful day when he read A River Runs Through It and exactly how that moment changed his life. We discuss his work as a teacher and a guide, and how those skills inform his writing. We talk about his writing process and his writing studio, the importance of creating art with a disciplined, workman-like approach, and how he deals with any self-doubt that may come with publishing his work. We chat in depth about poetry, and Chris offers some great advice for poetry novices like me who want to better understand the art form. We talk about specific writers Chris particularly admires, including John McFee, James Galvin, Thomas McGuane, David James Duncan, Jim Harrison, and more. He offers a ton of great book recommendations, discusses his favorite rivers in Montana, and shares some excellent words of wisdom to people who love the West.

Thanks again to Chris for this fun conversation—I hope you enjoy it!

Photos courtesy of Chris Dombrowski

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:00 – How Chris describes his work
6:30 – Story behind “Body of Water”
13:00 – How writing poetry helps his nonfiction work
17:00 – Structuring nonfiction like McPhee
19:00 – Experience teaching
21:00 – Reading seriously
23:15 – Teaching as a complement to writing
25:30 – Early experiences in Montana
27:00 – First big trip to the Rockies
27:30 – First time reading “A River Runs Through It”
29:00 – Importance of fishing
31:00 – Importance of passion in work
34:30 – Chris’s writing process
38:00 – Importance of having a writing studio
44:00 – Struggle of staying on task
48:30 – Dealing with self doubt
54:30 – How to read poetry
1:00:30 – Lessons learned from Jim Harrison
1:05:00 – Background on “Ragged Anthem”
1:08:30 – In depth conversation on podcasts
1:12:00 – Favorite books about the West
1:19:00 – Favorite rivers in the West
1:21:00 – Words of wisdom
1:25:15 – Connect with Chris

Information Referenced:

Auden Schendler is Senior Vice President of Sustainability at Aspen Skiing Company, where he focuses on finding large-scale solutions to climate change, specifically through clean energy and activism. Aspen Skiing Company has long been at the forefront of sustainable business practices, and Auden is one of the main forces behind the scenes driving those efforts—efforts that have positively influenced the ski and outdoor industries at large. In addition to his daily work in Aspen, he’s a well-known author and speaker, and he wrote the amazingly impactful book Getting Green Done: Hard Truths from the Front Lines of the Sustainability Revolution.

For a guy who spends his days deep in the trenches fighting the forces of climate change, Auden is surprisingly upbeat, energetic, and funny—as you’ll hear, we spend quite a bit of time laughing. But he’s far from naive or overly idealistic—he is quick to call out “greenwashing” when he sees it and is unapologetically focused on achieving specific, measurable results. Through trial and error and a lot of hard work, Auden has managed to find the balance of the optimism needed to pursue audacious initiatives with the pragmatism required to succeed in a competitive business environment.

From a personal perspective, Auden’s work and writing have been especially impactful on my career—I read his book a few months after earning my MBA, and it provided a much different perspective from the profit-at-all-costs philosophy that was the norm in business school. So it was obviously an honor to meet him, and I appreciate his letting me hassle him with questions for an hour.

We had a wide-ranging and fun conservation, discussing A work at Aspen Skiing Company and how he got his start in sustainability. We talked a lot about reading and books, specifically how the works of Cormac McCarthy and Jack Kerouac affected his outlook and approach to work. We chat about his daily routine and how he manages to fit so much into a single day, as well as how he wraps his head around pursuing a goal as overwhelming as solving climate change. We also talk about his expedition to Denali, how his kids have changed his outlook, and the importance of daily exercise. And as usual, we discuss favorite books about the West, favorite films, and his favorite location in the West.

This is an excellent episode, and I can’t thank Auden enough for making time in his busy schedule to chat. Links to everything are in the episode notes. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Auden Schendler

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:10 – How Auden began his career in sustainability
4:15 – Transition from theoretical sustainability to the business world
7:10 – Balancing patience with action
8:45 – Work as a practice
11:30 – Understanding the need for big challenges
12:45 – Mentors
16:00 – First visits to the West
17:30 – Republicans and the history of conservation
18:45 – On the Road’s influence on Auden
20:00 – Favorite failures
22:00 – Influence of Pat O’Donnell
24:30 – Publicly traded versus private companies
26:00 – Companies as political levels
29:00 – Dealing with climate change deniers
31:15 – Dealing with criticism
33:00 – Basalt fire and community
35:30 – Why does Auden choose to stay in the trenches?
37:15 – Auden’s daily routine
40:15 – How kids change his perspective
42:20 – Favorite books about the West
45:50 – Favorite films
47:50 – Most powerful outdoor experience
51:00 – Favorite location in the West
52:45 – Best advice he’s ever received
54:40 – Request of the podcast listeners
55:50 – Connect with Auden

Information Referenced:

Posted on March 3, 2019 by ELR

Books, Conservation, Conservationists, Ecology, Entrepreneurs, History, Leadership, Service, Writers

The virtual event planned with Russ has is being rescheduled for early-to-mid April. Check back soon for a specific date and time!!

Russ Schnitzer is a Colorado-based conservationist and professional photographer whose love for the landscapes and people of the American West shines through in all aspects of his life. Russ is the Senior Program Officer for Natural Resources at the Gates Family Foundation, one of Colorado’s most effective and generous conservation funders. As a photographer, he’s worked with some of the biggest names in the flyfishing world, including Patagonia, R.L Winston Rod Co., Orvis, The Drake Magazine, The Flyfish Journal, and more. And to top it all off, Russ is a former hotshot wildland firefighter and smokejumper, and, as you’d expect, he has some amazing stories from that period of his life.

Russ grew up in the midwest, but he headed to Idaho for college and has never looked back. During and after college, he fought fires throughout the West, and through that challenging, intense, dangerous work– and at least one devastating tragedy– he learned lessons that he still applies to his life today. Russ’s entire career has focused on protecting Western landscapes, and prior to the Gates Family Foundation, he worked for such notable organizations as Trout Unlimited and the Nature Conservancy. In his current role with Gates, he is laser-focused on finding community-driven conservation solutions for threatened landscapes, and during this episode, we go into great depths discussing his philosophies around effective conservation in the West.

Whether you’re interested in the nitty-gritty details of large-scale land conservation or lessons learned from a life of hardcore adventure, there’s something in this episode for you. Russ and I were on a tight schedule, but we still managed to cover a lot… and left plenty of room for a part two at some point in the future. We discuss the value of private land conservation in the West and the need for community buy-in and ownership for all conservation initiatives. We talk about the importance of agriculture from an ecological and economic standpoint, with some very specific examples from eastern Colorado. Russ also shares some stories from his time as a hotshot and smokejumper– the life-long bonds he formed with his teammates, the impact of these intense experiences on his life, and how he pushed through a terrible tragedy early in his firefighting career.

There is so much wisdom and valuable information in this episode, so listen closely and check the episode notes for links to everything. Thanks again to Russ for taking the time to chat. Hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Russ Schnitzer

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:55 – How Russ describes his work
5:10 – Background in photography
7:00 – Growing up in Minnesota
9:00 – Intersection of photography and conservation
11:00 – Importance of community in conservation
14:40 – Conservation in southeast Colorado
20:30 – Ecological diversity in southeast Colorado
21:30 – Importance of grazing for grassland health
27:00 – Favorite conservation books
29:00 – Importance of aggression in conservation
33:00 – Water in Colorado
38:20 – Greater Sage Grouse discussion
41:10 – Tips for those who want to get into conservation
47:30 – Career as a smokejumper and hotshot
55:00 – Hard work and teamwork in firefighting
56:40 – Enduring tragedy in firefighting
59:00 – Joining the smokejumpers
1:00:15 – Remembering life as a smokejumper
1:03:00 – Lessons learned from firefighting
1:08:00 – Importance of self awareness
1:12:00 – Connect with Russ online

Information Referenced:

Posted on February 21, 2019 by ELR

Agriculture, Artists, Conservation, Conservationists, Ecology, Ranchers, Service

Chandra Brown is an educator, writer, and river guide who has worked on the West’s most iconic rivers, including many seasons below the rim of the Grand Canyon. She’s also the founder of the Freeflow Institute, a unique Montana-based program that offers multi-day river trips for writers and creatives that combine immersion in the natural world with instruction from some of the West’s most well-known, prolific outdoor writers. By combining creativity with adventure in some of the West’s most spectacular landscapes, Freeflow helps to “eliminate the barrier between artist and environment,” resulting in creative inspiration and an increased desire to preserve our wild places.

Growing up in Alaska, Chandra has always had close connections to the land and life in the outdoors. It was during a family trip to Montana during high school that she fell in love with rivers; since then, rivers have played a foundational role in both her personal and professional lives. She attended college in Bozeman, studied in Ecuador as a Fulbright Scholar, and spent extensive time on rivers in both places. Currently she burns the candle at both ends– teaching high school Spanish during the school year and guiding rivers in the summer, all while working as a freelance writer and building the Freeflow Institute from the ground up.

Thanks to her love of books, writing, adventure, and conservation, Chandra is a perfect guest for this podcast. We cover a lot in just over an hour, including the genesis of the idea for the Freeflow Institute and how she turned that idea into reality. We discuss some of the well-known writers who teach on Freeflow trips, including Hal Herring, Chris Dombrowski, and past podcast guests Alexis Bonogofsky and Brendan Leonard. We talk about lessons learned from her time in Ecuador, her creative process for writing, and her own writing heroes and mentors. We discuss conservation, adventure, and, of course, favorite books, films, and locations in the West.

Chandra is an amazing woman who is pursuing her passions with an inspiring amount of focus and determination, and she’s created something very special in the Freeflow Institute. Check out the episode notes for links to everything, including a short film below that gives an excellent overview of the project. Enjoy!

All photos courtesy of Chandra Brown

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:40 – Chandra describes her work
5:00 – Freeflow Institute explained
7:00 – Taking Freeflow from idea to reality
9:15 – Hal Herring
11:30 – Importance of open-mindedness
14:00 – Wilderness breaking down barriers
17:40 – Growing up in Alaska
19:00 – Outdoor experiences as a kid
22:00 – Falling in love with rivers
23:30 – College in Montana
26:30 – Fulbright Scholar in Ecuador
28:00 – Lessons learned from international living
35:40 – Writing as a focus of her life
38:40 – Life in Missoula and teaching
40:50 – The Grand Canyon
42:40 – Lessons from guiding
44:15 – Talent versus hard work in writing
47:30 – Chandra’s writing routine
52:00 – Heroes and mentors
57:30 – Conservation challenges
1:02:30 – Favorite books
1:05:00 – Favorite films
1:06:00 – Hobbies
1:07:50 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:10:30 – Favorite location in the West
1:11:15 – Best advice ever received
1:12:00 – Request of the listeners
1:13:10 – Connect with Freeflow online

Information Referenced:

Posted on February 7, 2019 by ELR

Adventurers, Artists, Athletes, Books, Conservation, Creativity, Leadership, Service, Writers

Jesse Womack – Land Stewardship is in His Blood

Jesse Womack wears many hats, but at his core, he is a rancher. He is the fifth generation to operate his family’s ranch near Victoria, Texas, a large-scale cattle operation that uses progressive land management techniques in a very unique landscape. Jesse also works closely with Texas Christian University’s Institute of Ranch Management, traveling far and wide to teach sustainable agricultural techniques to ranchers and farmers around the world. And on top of all of that, he is also a cofounder of Explore Ranches, alongside past podcast guests Jay Kleberg and Allison Ryan.

Responsible land stewardship is in Jesse’s DNA, and it is the foundation of all of his professional ventures. And as you’ll hear, he’s an open-minded, independent, and critical thinker who is able to speak eloquently on a wide array of sometimes-controversial issues surrounding agriculture. When you combine those traits with his rock-solid work ethic and focus, you will understand why he has been able to establish himself as such a leader in agriculture, both in Texas and abroad. Whether you’re deeply involved in agriculture or you’ve never set foot on a ranch, you’ll glean a great deal of value from Jesse’s perspective—his knowledge, passion, and worldly perspective are applicable for any type of endeavor.

Jesse and I went to high school together, and even after knowing him for more than 25 years, I still learned a lot from this conversation. We talk about his work with TCU, and he shares some success stories from his time teaching in Panama, Ghana, Nigeria, and Brazil. He explains the importance of community buy-in and how focusing on commonalities and shared goals can help overcome cultural divides. We talk about his family’s history in Texas, and how he is raising his two sons to love and respect the outdoors. Jesse give a few updates on Explore Ranches, and talks about some exciting events they will be hosting soon. We also chat about his involvement with the Texas Agricultural Land Trust, and how conservation easements can be a useful tool for ranchers in Texas and beyond. And as usual, we discuss favorite books and movies, and Jesse shares the best piece of advice he’s ever received, which I especially appreciated .

Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jesse Womack!

All photos courtesy of Jesse Womack

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:30 – Funny story about Jesse’s son
5:00 – How Jesse describes his work
6:30 – TCU Institute of Ranch Management explained
8:30 – Experience in Brazil
10:00 – Countries where Jesse works
12:45 – Adjusting to different landscapes and cultures
14:00 – Success stories from TCU
17:45 – Importance of community buy-in
20:15 – Challenges of ranching in Brazil
23:30 – Misconceptions of ranching by environmentalists
30:30 – The need to be open-minded and consider other viewpoints
34:30 – Climate change and ranching
38:00 – Jesse’s family history in Texas
41:30 – Jesse’s family’s commitment to conservation
44:30 – Pressure of multigenerational ranch ownership
46:00 – Jesse’s career
47:30 – Surprises of running a ranch
49:00 – Texas Agricultural Land Trust
42:30 – Easements as a tool for agricultural
55:30 – Updates on Explore Ranches
57:30 – Mentors and heroes in ranching
59:30 – Our shared experience at Woodberry Forest School
52:00 – Lessons learned at Woodberry
1:05:30 – Favorite books
1:08:15 – Favorite films
1:08:45 – Hobbies
1:09:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:14:15 – Favorite location in the West
1:14:45 – Best advice ever recieved
1:16:45 – Connect with Jesse online

Information Referenced:

Melissa DiNino is a biologist, artist, and designer who currently lives and works in Montana’s legendary Tom Miner Basin. A native easterner, Melissa moved West soon after college to work as a range rider– a job that involves monitoring livestock on horseback in an effort to encourage the successful coexistence of livestock and apex predators in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. In her role as a range rider, Melissa developed a deep appreciation for Montana’s spectacular landscapes, the challenging relationship between people and predators, and the importance of compassionate communication between all stakeholders.

Melissa grew up in Connecticut, and developed an early love of adventure and the outdoors while spending time at her family’s cabin in Maine. She’s also a committed athlete and played competitive basketball from age five through college. As you’ll hear, Melissa is humble and soft spoken, but she has a track record of pushing herself hard, both in academics and athletics, as well as in her present-day professional work and art. Although only in her mid-20s, Melissa is wise beyond her years and is committed to doing meaningful work in a place that she loves, surrounded by a supportive community… and she’s making it happen in an inspiring way.

I know regular listeners will really enjoy this conversation, but it will be especially valuable to anyone who is in the early stages of their career, looking to do work that is meaningful and fulfilling. Melissa and I discuss her path to Montana, as well as some of the challenges and funny mishaps of adjusting to life in the West. We talk about the realities of piecing together a variety of different jobs and artistic endeavors, while remaining focused on the big picture of doing work that matters. We chat about lessons learned from athletics, the value of being competitive with oneself, and importance of being willing to “put yourself out there” in creative pursuits. We also dig into some details around wolves, grizzlies, and the importance of civil discourse when discussing emotional subjects like wolves. And as usual, we talk about favorite books, films, and places in the West. Links to everything are in the episode notes.

Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Melissa DiNino!

All photos courtesy of Louise Johns

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:30 – How Melissa describes her work

4:50 – Range riding explained

9:30 – Balancing grazing and predators

11:15 – The human element of range riding

13:00 – How Melissa started range riding

14:45 – Transition to Montana

16:15 – Embarrassing/funny Montana story

19:45 – Growing up in Connecticut

20:30 – Adventures in Maine

21:30 – Parents’ influence

24:10 – Basketball

25:55 – Competition and lessons learned from sports

29:00 – Why she chose to study wolves

32:25 – Tips for having tough conversations

36:00 – Stories of collaboration

37:30 – Crazy stories from range riding

38:45 – Books about wolves

42:00 – Background in design

43:15 – Art and watercolors

46:10 – Artistic mentors

48:00 – Future plans

50:00 – Mentors

51:20 – Favorite books

53:00 – Favorite films

54:00 – Weird hobbies

55:20 – Most powerful outdoor experience

1:01:00 – Favorite location in the West

1:02:00 – Request of the listeners

1:02:50 – Connect with Melissa online

Information Referenced:

Posted on January 11, 2019 by ELR

Agriculture, Artists, Conservation, Creativity, Ecology, History, Ranchers, Regenerative Ag

Allison Ryan is a West Texas native and co-founder of Explore Ranches, a company that connects its customers with spectacular private ranches throughout Texas and Colorado—some have described it as “AirBnB for ranches.” For those seeking a truly unique outdoor experience, Explore Ranches offers access to private land that has rarely, if ever, been visited by the public. And for the ranch owner, Explore Ranches creates an additional revenue stream to support the costs of land ownership, encourage conservation, and reduce the likelihood of subdividing large ranches due to financial strain. Given the lack of public land in Texas and the financial realities of owning large ranches, Explore Ranches offers a welcome solution for both landowners and adventure-loving non-landowners.

Allison grew up in El Paso, Texas, in a conservation-minded family that valued time in the outdoors and understood the importance of land stewardship. Between her childhood experiences at summer camp in West Texas, time spent on her family’s ranch, and a love of fitness and wellness, Allison has a deep understanding of the many benefits of recreating in open spaces. But Allison is also familiar with the financial commitments of land ownership, and she understands first hand the need to identify new revenue streams in order to make ranch ownership financially viable. In fact, her family’s ranch, known as the Withers, is available on Explore Ranches– it serves as an excellent case study that demonstrates the need that Explore Ranches fulfills for landowners.

If you listened to my recent interview with Allison’s co-founder Jay Kleberg, you may remember that we briefly discussed Explore Ranches. But in this conversation with Allison, we dig into the nitty-gritty details of the business—how the idea came about, descriptions of some of the available properties, and the challenges and opportunities arising from the small amount of private land in Texas. We discuss how Explore Ranches can be a useful tool for landowners, and why her family’s ranch was a prime candidate to partner with Explore Ranches. We talk about her childhood in West Texas, conservation lessons learned from her parents and grandparents, and some of her formative experiences in the outdoors. Allison also dives into her other career in the fitness world, and I veer the conversation completely off track by asking way too many questions about diet, exercise, and fasting—if you like any of my interviews with professional athletes, you’ll probably enjoy that part. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and her most powerful outdoor experience.

Take a moment to visit Explore Ranches—there are links in the episode notes. And please enjoy this fun conversation with Allison Ryan.

All photos courtesy of Logan Lewis

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:30- How Allison describes her work

5:50 – Overview of Explore Ranches

7:25 – Origin of the Explore Ranches idea

11:30 – Public vs private land in Texas

14:50 – Allison’s family ranch

19:30 – History of land stewardship in Allison’s family

20:45 – Childhood experiences in the outdoors

21:45 – Other ranches in the Explore Ranches portfolio

24:30 – Working with landowners

27:15 – Explore Ranches as a landowner tool

28:30 – Competitors?

30:00 – Criteria for ranches

31:30 – Biggest surprises in starting the business

33:50 – Future plans for Explore Ranches

36:00 – Growing up in El Paso

37:45 – School and early career

40:00 – Personal training

41:00 – Diet versus exercise

46:30 – Best single exercise

47:30 – Fasting

50:15 – Thoughts on social media

54:30 – Favorite books

57:15 – Favorite films

58:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience

1:00:30 – Favorite location in the West

1:01:00 – Request of the listeners

1:02:45 – Connect with Allison

Information Referenced:

Jay Kleberg interview
Dan Flores trespassing article
Dan Flores podcast
The Withers
Prude Ranch
Hudspeth River Ranch
Fed Up
Jamie Oliver
Intermittent Fasting
Ben Masters interview
Big Bend: A Homesteaders Story by JO Langford
Manhunt by James Swanson
Hellhound on His Trail by Hampton Sides
Hampton Sides interviews 1 and 2
Unbranded

Posted on December 27, 2018 by ELR

Jay Kleberg is a conservationist and Associate Director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation. He’s also the co-founder of Explore Ranches, a new company that connects outdoor enthusiasts to some of the most iconic private ranches in Texas and beyond. Jay has built his career and life around a deep respect for land and an inborn sense of responsibility to protect these landscapes, as well as the wildlife and heritage they support. As a sixth-generation Texan landowner, responsible land stewardship is in Jay’s blood, and as you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s laser-focused on leaving Texas an even better place than he found it.

Growing up on his family’s large-scale South Texas working ranch, Jay has been closely connected to the land for as long as he can remember. After high school and college on the east coast, Jay headed to Brazil for several years, where he worked with renowned conservationist John Cain Carter to protect the region’s threatened landscapes. It was in Brazil that Jay began to hone his personal conservation philosophy and had a number of crazy adventures along the way. After working a stint in for-profit real estate and earning his MBA, Jay decided to focus all of his professional energy on conservation in his home state.

Jay and I have been friends for over 25 years, so it was a real treat to connect with him on the podcast to discuss our shared passions for land conservation and adventure… we normally just re-tell hilarious stories from high school! As usual, we cover a lot– we discuss his upbringing on his family ranch and lessons learned from both his family and the larger ranch community. We talk about his time in Brazil, conservation challenges in South America, and one close call in a small airplane that could’ve been the end of Jay. We discuss Explore Ranches, his work with Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation, his role in the upcoming film “The River and the Wall,” and other adventures throughout the West. We also discuss the importance of humility and honesty, benefits of having a for-profit mentality in the nonprofit world, favorite books, films, and more.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything… there’s a ton of great information here. I know you’ll enjoy this fun conversation with Jay Kleberg.

All photos courtesy of Ben Masters

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:30 – How Jay describes his work

5:15 – Explore Ranches explained

8:45 – Importance of access to the outdoors

11:15 – More about Explore Ranches and the team

17:00 – Lessons learned from growing up on a ranch

21:30 – Conservation influences in Brazil

26:00 – Culture shock and lawlessness in Brazil

30:30 – An almost-airplane crash in the Amazon

37:45 – Moving to El Paso, TX

44:00 – Decision to pursue his MBA

47:30 – Business skills for land conservation

49:00 – Beginning work with the TX Parks and Wildlife Foundation

51:30 – Biggest conservation challenge facing Texas

56:40 – Experience at Woodberry Forest School

1:02:30 – River and the Wall teaser

1:07:10 – The source Jay’s humility

1:11:30 – Importance of “getting after it”

1:14:00 – Favorite books

1:15:45 – Favorite films

1:17:45 – Surprising hobbies (i.e. wigs)

1:19:40 – Favorite location in the West

1:21:30 – Request of the listeners

1:24:00 – Connect with Jay online

Information Referenced:

Posted on December 13, 2018 by ELR

Adventurers, Agriculture, Athletes, Conservation, Conservationists, Entrepreneurs, Leadership, Ranchers, Service

Daniel Anderson is a Montana native and founder of The Common Ground Project, a nature-based retreat, hiking, and camping experience in which small groups of people from around the world share adventure, education, and conversation. Located on Daniel’s family ranch in the heart of Montana’s renowned Tom Miner Basin, The Common Ground Project seeks to strengthen connections between people, wildlife, and the stunning landscapes of the American West. As you’ll hear, Daniel and his family’s multi-generational commitment to community and holistic land stewardship make them the perfect people to pass along the wisdom they’ve gained from the land and from life in the Rockies.

To call Daniel’s personal story “fascinating” would be quite an understatement. Born in Missoula and raised in the Tom Miner Basin, Daniel attended boarding school on the east coast and graduated from college with a degree in engineering. But soon after beginning his professional career in California, doctors discovered two fist-sized, cancerous tumors in his body, one attached to his kidney and the other to his aorta. The cancer diagnosis, subsequent treatment, and return to health sharpened Daniel’s focus on the importance of helping and connecting with others, and also led him on a ten-year journey of rigorous personal spiritual work. The cumulative result of all of these intense life experiences was the creation of The Common Ground Project.

So, as you’ve probably gathered, Daniel is an interesting dude. We only covered a fraction of what I’d hoped to discuss, but I know you’ll enjoy the conversation. We discussed The Common Ground Project, the genesis of the idea, and the moment he decided to make the plan a reality. We also talked about lessons learned from his cancer experience and wisdom gleaned from his tight-knit family, including his grandfather who purchased their ranch in the 1950s after being a POW during World War II. We chatted about his family’s long-standing commitment to collaborative land stewardship in the Tom Miner Basin, and the challenges and opportunities of land ownership in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Finally, we discussed influential books, his most powerful outdoor experience, and the insights Daniel has gained from a decade of rigorous spiritual inquiry… with mentors that even include a Peruvian shaman.

I encourage you to check out The Common Ground Project online and if the mission speaks to you, consider donating to their Indiegogo campaign. Links to everything are in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Daniel Anderson.

All photos courtesy of Louise Johns

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:15 – How Daniel describes his work

4:50 – Tom Miner Basin explained

8:30 – Challenges and opportunities of land ownership in Tom Miner Basin

11:40 – Keys to successful landowner collaboration

14:05 – Complexity of collaborative landownership

19:35 – Daniel’s family history

23:00 – Boarding school

27:00 – The Common Ground Project explained

30:00 – Moment that Daniel decided to make TCGP a reality

34:30 – Idea of long term land stewardship

38:30 – Books and resources about land stewardship

42:00 – Leadership of TCGP

48:00 – Crowdfunding for TCGP

51:30 – Daniel’s cancer experience

57:00 – How cancer changed Daniel’s perspective

1:04:40 – Mentors

1:08:00 – Spiritual journey

1:12:00 – Favorite books about the West

1:13:00 – Favorite films

1:15:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience

1:21:30 – Request of the listeners

1:26:30 – Connect with Daniel and TCGP online

Information Referenced:

Posted on November 29, 2018 by ELR

Agriculture, Conservation, Creativity, Entrepreneurs, Leadership, Mindfulness, Native American History, Ranchers, Service

Alexis Bonogofsky is a rancher, conservationist, and community organizer who is fiercely committed to protecting the landscapes and communities of eastern Montana. While much of Alexis’s career has been devoted to environmental issues in the West, the 2011 Exxon oil spill in the Yellowstone River brought the fight to her doorstep—her family’s pastures were inundated with oil, threatening not only the local ecosystem, but the livelihoods of her family and community. Since that spill and the ensuing battle with Exxon, Alexis has become an outspoken advocate for ranchers, farmers, and rural Montana stakeholders. Through her writing, photography, and old-fashioned relationship-building, Alexis has become an invaluable force in bringing people together even in today’s divisive political climate.

Alexis grew up in eastern Montana as part of a tight-knit, hardworking, blue-collar family. Her parents engrained in her a rock-solid work ethic, a deep sense of responsibility, and a refusal to back down from bullies– characteristics that have served her well in her life and career. Alexis studied international development in undergrad and grad school, but decided that rather than taking her expertise to another country, she could apply those invaluable skills to her home of eastern Montana. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Alexis is humble and open-minded, but completely unwavering when it comes to standing up against individuals or companies that seek to take advantage of the less powerful.

I can’t overstate how much I enjoyed this conversation. Alexis is a shining example of the impact that one person can have if she’s willing to work hard, be humble, play the long game, and have the bravery to put herself out there. We cover a lot, including the Exxon oil spill and how it affected her life, work, and sense of responsibility. We talk about her time working with Native Americans as part of the Tribal Lands Partnership, and some of the wisdom gained from that job. She discusses the lessons learned from her parents and shares some thoughts on her father’s tragic death several years ago. We also delve into her writing process, hunting, public lands, goats, llamas, and our mutual contempt for bullies. And Alexis also offers a ton of book recommendations that have never been mentioned on the podcast before.

This is a seriously inspiring episode, so I’m very excited for you to listen. Be sure to check out Alexis’s blog East of Billings and follow her on social media. I have links to everything in the episode notes below. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Alexis Bonogofsky

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

4:10 – How Alexis describes her work

5:25 – Eastern Montana described

7:30 – Exxon oil spill on Alexis’s farm

11:00 – Dealing with Exxon

17:00 – The origins of Alexis’s leadership abilities

20:35 – Role models

23:20 – Misunderstandings around “environmentalists”

26:10 – Education and early work

28:40 – Lessons learned from working with Native American tribes

31:00 – Technique for finding common ground among opposing groups

34:30 – Political aspirations?

35:15 – Resources that have shaped Alexis’s thoughts on organizing

38:35 – Writing and photography

42:00 – Bravery required for writing

43:30 – Alexis’s father’s tragic death

46:45 – Distaste for bullies

49:30 – Public Lands

52:45 – Artemis Sportswomen

55:00 – Goats!

58:10 – Favorite books

1:00:35 – Favorite films

1:01:30 – Other activities

1:02:35 – Most powerful outdoor experience

1:04:30 – Favorite location in the West

1:05:00 – Best advice

1:06:30 – Request of listeners

1:07:40 – Connect with Alexis

Information Referenced:

East of Billings
Alexis on Instagram
Exxon oil spill in the Yellowstone
Vanessa Braided Hair
Wally McRae
Gonzaga University
University of Denver
Albert Hirschman – Opinionated Opinions and Democracy
The Public and Its Problems by John Dewey
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
Seeing Like a State by James Scott
Wendell Berry
Tribe by Sebastian Junger
When the Ground Thaws by Alexis Bonogofsky
On Common Ground public lands video
Modern Huntsman
Artemis Sportswomen
The Mountain and the Fathers by Joe Wilkins
West of 98 by Lynn Stegner
Montana: An Uncommon Land by Ross Toole
Three Day Road by Joseph Boyden
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge

Posted on November 20, 2018 by ELR

Agriculture, Artists, Conservation, Conservationists, Creativity, Ecology, Hunting & Fishing, Leadership, Ranchers, Regenerative Ag, Service, Writers

Sara Dant is a historian, professor, and chair of the history department at Weber State University. She’s also the author of one of my new favorite books: Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. Sara’s work touches many of the topics we discuss regularly on this podcast, including conservation, water, public lands, building consensus around divisive issues, historical figures of the West, and much more. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Sara has a unique ability to explain complex and potentially dry topics regarding the American West in an engaging and easy-to-understand manner.

Whether you’re like me and have read dozens of books on the history of the West or simply have a general interest the subject, I think Losing Eden should be mandatory reading. It lays out the history of the region, starting with human migration into North America 15-30,000 years ago and ends in the present-day West with our scramble to find solutions to natural resource shortages and climate change. For me, the book connected many different time periods and concepts into one cohesive narrative, while simultaneously introducing me to new ideas and people, all in just under 200 pages.

Sara and I had a great conversation covering key concepts from her book, as well as her life as a historian, teacher, and life-long Westerner. We chat about the concept of the “tragedy of the commons,” conservation versus preservation, and the myth that the West was a sort of Garden of Eden prior to European settlement. We also dig into some of the key historical figures of the West, including Brigham Young, John Wesley Powell, Theodore Roosevelt, and John Muir. Most of you know that I’m weirdly obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt—I’ve got a life-sized cardboard cut-out of him in my office, for Pete’s sake!—so Sara gently offers a more “balanced” examination of his conservation legacy. We also discuss Sara’s upbringing in Arizona, love of trail running, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, because there’s a lot.

And since many of you are members of the Mountain & Prairie Book Club, I wanted to let you know that Losing Eden will be the November/December selection. Sara has graciously offered to answer questions about the book or even participate in some sort of online discussion, so I’ll be sorting out those details in the coming weeks. In the meantime, start reading the book and visit the book club webpage for more information as it becomes available.

For now, please enjoy this fun and educational conversation with Sara Dant.

Photos courtesy of Sara Dant

Click Here to Download on iTunes

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Click Here to Download on Overcast

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Click Here to Download on Google Play

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Click Here to Download on Stitcher

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:55 – How Sara describes her work

4:45 – Where Sara grew up

6:15 – Background on the book

7:30 – The myth of the West as “Eden”

9:40 – The tragedy of the commons explained

13:10 – The Morman’s settlement of the West

17:00 – John Wesley Powell explained

22:00 – Ambition and the settlement of the West

23:00 – The significance of the 1890s

27:55 – Conservation versus preservation

34:00 – A more balanced view of Theodore Roosevelt

40:00 – Growing up in Arizona

41:25 – Early influences

44:15 – The book that most influenced Sara’s career

46:20 – Pursuing her Phd and the choice to teach

49:00 – Sara’s optimism about current college students

52:45 – Trail running

54:25 – Working at Grand Teton and Denali National Parks

56:30 – Public lands

1:01:30 – Favorite books

1:03:00 – Favorite films

1:05:00 – Hobbies

1:05:50 – Most powerful outdoor experience

1:07:25 – Favorite location in the West

1:08:00 – Best thing Sara ever learned

1:09:00 – Sara’s words of wisdom

1:10:15 – Connect with Sara online

Information Referenced:

Dr. Sara Dant
Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant
Sara at the Aspen Institute: Discussion 1 & Discussion 2
Oranges by John McPhee
Tragedy of the commons
Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
Wallace Stegner
John Wesley Powell
100th Meridian
Theodore Roosevelt
John Muir
Hampton Sides podcast
Dan Flores podcast
Changes in the Land by William Cronon
Wallace Stegner Quote that Sara mentioned: From “Variation on a Theme by Crevecoeur”
Where the Bluebird Sings to the Lemonade Springs by Wallace Stegner
Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner
Blade Runner
Avatar
Grand Staircase Escalante
Hal Rothman

Posted on November 7, 2018 by ELR

Books, Conservation, Ecology, History, Native American History, Writers

Hampton Sides, Part 2 – How to Tell a Damn Good Story

Anyone who has listened to this podcast surely knows of best-selling author and narrative historian Hampton Sides. I reference his books often and was lucky enough to interview him in August at the Aspen Institute, which I released as a podcast episode. In that conversation, we discussed the history of the 19th-Century American West, and many of you kindly reached out to let me know how much you enjoyed learning from Hampton. So I was thrilled—and I think you will be too—when Hampton generously stopped through Colorado Springs last week in the midst of a busy tour for his amazing new book, On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle.

As you’d expect, we had a fun conversation that expanded upon our first interview—we dig into his childhood in Memphis, Tennessee, and discuss his life-long desire to be a writer. We talk about his early years in journalism, and how his experiences writing and editing have contributed to his success as an author. We also chat about his years at “Outside”magazine and some of the realities of being a freelance journalist and author. Additionally, he shares some of the ins and outs of his writing process, including the struggle of cranking out a first draft, a process he describes as spending time in the “pain cave.” We also discuss the Grand Canyon, Wallace Stegner’s writing, and much more.

Finally, we spend some time talking about On Desperate Ground, which I can’t recommend enough. I knew next to nothing about the Korean War, but as usual, Hampton’s writing was simultaneously educational and entertaining, allowing me to learn a lot while thoroughly enjoying the process. You don’t have to be a military history buff to enjoy this book—his exploration of characters’ personalities, motivations, and egos makes for an engaging story that will appeal to anyone who is fascinated by interesting people. And being a weird guy who loves climbing big, absurdly cold mountains, I especially enjoyed our discussion of North Korea’s brutal winters and how sub-zero temperatures were one of the deadliest forces in this battle.

Thanks again to Hampton for making time to meet up during such a busy book tour. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to all the authors and books we discuss, as we cover a lot. This was a fun conversation, and I know you’ll enjoy it.

Header photo by SERGEY GORSHKOV, headshot by KURT MARKUS.

Click Here to Download on iTunes

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Click Here to Download on Overcast

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Click Here to Download on Google Play

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Click Here to Download on Stitcher

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Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:20 – How Hampton describes his work

7:15 – Hampton’s early years

11:00 – College and history training

13:40 – Importance of discipline in writing

17:00 – The “Pain Cave”

19:00 – Publising his first book

20:20 – First job out of college

22:00 – Working at Outside

24:45 – Learning the art of structure

28:30 – Importance of characters in history

31:40 – General MacArthur

36:00 – The cold as a character in the book

40:45 – US Marines’ retreat from the reservoir

41:50 – Chairman Mao

42:40 – Lessons learned from veterans

47:40 – Favorite books

48:45 – Favorite documentaries

49:40 – Most powerful experience in the outdoors

51:40 – Best advice ever received

52:45 – Connect with Hampton online

Information Referenced:

Hampton Sides
Hampton’s Facebook page
On Desperate Ground by Hampton Sides
Washington Post review of On Desperate Ground
All of Hampton’s Books
David Grann
Candice Millard
Laura Hillenbrand
Nathaniel Philbrick
David McCullough
Shelby Foote
Steven King
John Grisham
Outside
Tim Cahill
David Quammen
Jon Krakauer
Sebastian Junger
Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides
Draft No. 4 by John McPhee
General Douglas MacArthur
Mao Zedong
Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner
Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
Wallace Stegner books
All the King’s Men by Robert Warren Penn
Ken Burns – The Civil War
Ken Burns – The Roosevelts
The Grand Canyon by Pete McBride (foreword by Hampton)

Posted on October 24, 2018 by ELR

Adventurers, Books, Creativity, History, Writers

Erik Petersen (left), alongside Montana local Bryan Wells

Erik Petersen is a Montana-based photographer, filmmaker, and photojournalist whose work showcases the American West and the many ways we enjoy our wide open spaces. His most recent film, A Few Steps Further, explores the commonalities between backcountry hunting and mountain endurance sports, while highlighting the spectacular wild landscapes that make these activities possible. Historically, hunters and adventure sports enthusiasts have not always seen eye to eye, but through his film, Erik demonstrates that the two groups have much more in common than not, most notably a love for public lands, pushing one’s physical limits, and hardcore adventure.

Growing up in Minnesota, Erik was an avid hunter and outdoorsman– but with a lifelong love for Montana, he moved West the day that he graduated from college. He worked for over ten years as a newspaper photographer throughout Montana, honing his craft and learning to produce high-quality work under the pressure and deadlines of traditional print media. Eventually Erik transitioned into freelance photography, taking some initial assignments that included trips to war-torn Afghanistan and the surrounding region. Today, much of his work centers around the landscapes of the American West, and his photographs and films highlight many of the values that we celebrate time and again on this podcast—conservation, public lands, adventure sports, and interesting people who love the West.

Erik and I caught up on the day that A Few Steps Further was released to the public, so I’ve embedded it in the episode notes—be sure to check it out, you’ll love it. In addition to that film, we talk about some of his other creative work, including a film he’s currently making that explores the threat of a goldmine near Yellowstone National Park and the promising bipartisan coalition that has emerged to fight the threat. We also cover the lessons he learned from his years in photojournalism, and how he manages to balance his roles as a husband and father of two boys while running his own creative business and pursuing adventure sports such as hunting and ultra running. We also discuss his creative mentors and heroes and his favorite books and films, plus he gives some good advice on how to take better landscape photos.

Visit the episode notes for links to everything, and enjoy this fun conversation with Erik Petersen.

A Few Steps Further from Erik Petersen on Vimeo.

All photos courtesy of Erik Petersen.

Episode Notes

Topics Discussed:

3:35 – How Erik describes his work

4:10 – A Few Steps Further explained

6:05 – Erik’s background ultra running

7:35 – Growing up in Minnesota

8:50 – Backstory of Erik’s ultra running friend in the film

11:50 – What attracts Erik to adventure and endurance sports

14:00 – Early years

16:00 – Moving to Montana

18:15 – Experience from working at a newspaper

22:20 – Transition to freelance

25:30 – Time in Afganistan and scary stories

29:10 – Public lands

33:55- Mentors and heroes

36:15 – Nuts and bolts of filmmaking

37:50 – Patagonia media grant & new film

43:30 – How he choses creative projects

48:05 – How to take better landscape photos

51:00 – Favorite books and authors

53:00 – Favorite films

54:00 – Surprising activities

55:40 – Most powerful outdoor experience

57:50 – Best advice ever received

59:15 – Request of the listeners

1:00:05 – Follow Erik online

Information Referenced:

Erik Petersen
Erik on Instagram
Erik on Vimeo
A Few Steps Further
Hardrock 100
Jim Howell podcast
Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher by Timothy Egan
Patagonia media grant
Gianforte body slamming reporter
Jim Harrison
The Road Home by Jim Harrison
Legends of the Fall by Jim Harrison
The House of Sky by Ivan Doig
Sarah Calhoun podcast
Red Gold
Ben Knight
Camp 4 Collective
Harry Potter books
Crazy Mountains

Posted on October 17, 2018 by ELR