Russ Schnitzer – A Life Devoted to Western Landscapes
The virtual event planned with Russ has is being rescheduled for early-to-mid April. Check back soon for a specific date and time!!
Russ Schnitzer is a Colorado-based conservationist and professional photographer whose love for the landscapes and people of the American West shines through in all aspects of his life. Russ is the Senior Program Officer for Natural Resources at the Gates Family Foundation, one of Colorado’s most effective and generous conservation funders. As a photographer, he’s worked with some of the biggest names in the flyfishing world, including Patagonia, R.L Winston Rod Co., Orvis, The Drake Magazine, The Flyfish Journal, and more. And to top it all off, Russ is a former hotshot wildland firefighter and smokejumper, and, as you’d expect, he has some amazing stories from that period of his life.
Russ grew up in the midwest, but he headed to Idaho for college and has never looked back. During and after college, he fought fires throughout the West, and through that challenging, intense, dangerous work– and at least one devastating tragedy– he learned lessons that he still applies to his life today. Russ’s entire career has focused on protecting Western landscapes, and prior to the Gates Family Foundation, he worked for such notable organizations as Trout Unlimited and the Nature Conservancy. In his current role with Gates, he is laser-focused on finding community-driven conservation solutions for threatened landscapes, and during this episode, we go into great depths discussing his philosophies around effective conservation in the West.
Whether you’re interested in the nitty-gritty details of large-scale land conservation or lessons learned from a life of hardcore adventure, there’s something in this episode for you. Russ and I were on a tight schedule, but we still managed to cover a lot… and left plenty of room for a part two at some point in the future. We discuss the value of private land conservation in the West and the need for community buy-in and ownership for all conservation initiatives. We talk about the importance of agriculture from an ecological and economic standpoint, with some very specific examples from eastern Colorado. Russ also shares some stories from his time as a hotshot and smokejumper– the life-long bonds he formed with his teammates, the impact of these intense experiences on his life, and how he pushed through a terrible tragedy early in his firefighting career.
There is so much wisdom and valuable information in this episode, so listen closely and check the episode notes for links to everything. Thanks again to Russ for taking the time to chat. Hope you enjoy!
Photos courtesy of Russ Schnitzer
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- 3:55 – How Russ describes his work
- 5:10 – Background in photography
- 7:00 – Growing up in Minnesota
- 9:00 – Intersection of photography and conservation
- 11:00 – Importance of community in conservation
- 14:40 – Conservation in southeast Colorado
- 20:30 – Ecological diversity in southeast Colorado
- 21:30 – Importance of grazing for grassland health
- 27:00 – Favorite conservation books
- 29:00 – Importance of aggression in conservation
- 33:00 – Water in Colorado
- 38:20 – Greater Sage Grouse discussion
- 41:10 – Tips for those who want to get into conservation
- 47:30 – Career as a smokejumper and hotshot
- 55:00 – Hard work and teamwork in firefighting
- 56:40 – Enduring tragedy in firefighting
- 59:00 – Joining the smokejumpers
- 1:00:15 – Remembering life as a smokejumper
- 1:03:00 – Lessons learned from firefighting
- 1:08:00 – Importance of self awareness
- 1:12:00 – Connect with Russ online
Information Referenced:
- SchnitzerPHOTO
- Gates Family Foundation
- Southeast Colorado conservation example
- For the Love of Land by Jim Howell
- Jim Howell podcast 1 and 2
- A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold
- Where the Water Goes by David Owen
- Greater Sage Grouse article
- Can’t Hurt Me by David Goggins
- Prineville Hotshots
Chandra Brown – Fostering Creativity Through River Adventures
Chandra Brown is an educator, writer, and river guide who has worked on the West’s most iconic rivers, including many seasons below the rim of the Grand Canyon. She’s also the founder of the Freeflow Institute, a unique Montana-based program that offers multi-day river trips for writers and creatives that combine immersion in the natural world with instruction from some of the West’s most well-known, prolific outdoor writers. By combining creativity with adventure in some of the West’s most spectacular landscapes, Freeflow helps to “eliminate the barrier between artist and environment,” resulting in creative inspiration and an increased desire to preserve our wild places.
Growing up in Alaska, Chandra has always had close connections to the land and life in the outdoors. It was during a family trip to Montana during high school that she fell in love with rivers; since then, rivers have played a foundational role in both her personal and professional lives. She attended college in Bozeman, studied in Ecuador as a Fulbright Scholar, and spent extensive time on rivers in both places. Currently she burns the candle at both ends– teaching high school Spanish during the school year and guiding rivers in the summer, all while working as a freelance writer and building the Freeflow Institute from the ground up.
Thanks to her love of books, writing, adventure, and conservation, Chandra is a perfect guest for this podcast. We cover a lot in just over an hour, including the genesis of the idea for the Freeflow Institute and how she turned that idea into reality. We discuss some of the well-known writers who teach on Freeflow trips, including Hal Herring, Chris Dombrowski, and past podcast guests Alexis Bonogofsky and Brendan Leonard. We talk about lessons learned from her time in Ecuador, her creative process for writing, and her own writing heroes and mentors. We discuss conservation, adventure, and, of course, favorite books, films, and locations in the West.
Chandra is an amazing woman who is pursuing her passions with an inspiring amount of focus and determination, and she’s created something very special in the Freeflow Institute. Check out the episode notes for links to everything, including a short film below that gives an excellent overview of the project. Enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Chandra Brown
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- 3:40 – Chandra describes her work
- 5:00 – Freeflow Institute explained
- 7:00 – Taking Freeflow from idea to reality
- 9:15 – Hal Herring
- 11:30 – Importance of open-mindedness
- 14:00 – Wilderness breaking down barriers
- 17:40 – Growing up in Alaska
- 19:00 – Outdoor experiences as a kid
- 22:00 – Falling in love with rivers
- 23:30 – College in Montana
- 26:30 – Fulbright Scholar in Ecuador
- 28:00 – Lessons learned from international living
- 35:40 – Writing as a focus of her life
- 38:40 – Life in Missoula and teaching
- 40:50 – The Grand Canyon
- 42:40 – Lessons from guiding
- 44:15 – Talent versus hard work in writing
- 47:30 – Chandra’s writing routine
- 52:00 – Heroes and mentors
- 57:30 – Conservation challenges
- 1:02:30 – Favorite books
- 1:05:00 – Favorite films
- 1:06:00 – Hobbies
- 1:07:50 – Most powerful outdoor experience
- 1:10:30 – Favorite location in the West
- 1:11:15 – Best advice ever received
- 1:12:00 – Request of the listeners
- 1:13:10 – Connect with Freeflow online
Information Referenced:
- Chandra Brown
- Freeflow Institute
- Freeflow on Instagram and Facebook
- Willam deBuys
- Hal Herring
- Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Podcast
- Brendan Leonard episode
- Alexis Bonogofsky episode
- The Nature Fix by Florence Williams
- Montana State
- Fulbright Scholarship
- Make It Till You Make It by Brendan Leonard
- David James Duncan
- The River Why by David James Duncan
- Chris Dombrowski
- Body of Water by Chris Dombrowski
- Meateater Podcast with Chris Dombrowski
- Recovering a Lost River by Stephen Hawley
- Dammed to Extinction
- A River Lost by Blaine Harden
- Coming Into the Country by John McPhee
- Wade Davis
- One River by Wade Davis
- 100 Years of Solitude by Gabriel Marquez
- Baraka
- No Man’s Land
Jesse Womack – Land Stewardship is in His Blood
Jesse Womack – Land Stewardship is in His Blood
Jesse Womack wears many hats, but at his core, he is a rancher. He is the fifth generation to operate his family’s ranch near Victoria, Texas, a large-scale cattle operation that uses progressive land management techniques in a very unique landscape. Jesse also works closely with Texas Christian University’s Institute of Ranch Management, traveling far and wide to teach sustainable agricultural techniques to ranchers and farmers around the world. And on top of all of that, he is also a cofounder of Explore Ranches, alongside past podcast guests Jay Kleberg and Allison Ryan.
Responsible land stewardship is in Jesse’s DNA, and it is the foundation of all of his professional ventures. And as you’ll hear, he’s an open-minded, independent, and critical thinker who is able to speak eloquently on a wide array of sometimes-controversial issues surrounding agriculture. When you combine those traits with his rock-solid work ethic and focus, you will understand why he has been able to establish himself as such a leader in agriculture, both in Texas and abroad. Whether you’re deeply involved in agriculture or you’ve never set foot on a ranch, you’ll glean a great deal of value from Jesse’s perspective—his knowledge, passion, and worldly perspective are applicable for any type of endeavor.
Jesse and I went to high school together, and even after knowing him for more than 25 years, I still learned a lot from this conversation. We talk about his work with TCU, and he shares some success stories from his time teaching in Panama, Ghana, Nigeria, and Brazil. He explains the importance of community buy-in and how focusing on commonalities and shared goals can help overcome cultural divides. We talk about his family’s history in Texas, and how he is raising his two sons to love and respect the outdoors. Jesse give a few updates on Explore Ranches, and talks about some exciting events they will be hosting soon. We also chat about his involvement with the Texas Agricultural Land Trust, and how conservation easements can be a useful tool for ranchers in Texas and beyond. And as usual, we discuss favorite books and movies, and Jesse shares the best piece of advice he’s ever received, which I especially appreciated .
Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jesse Womack!
All photos courtesy of Jesse Womack
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Funny story about Jesse’s son
- 5:00 – How Jesse describes his work
- 6:30 – TCU Institute of Ranch Management explained
- 8:30 – Experience in Brazil
- 10:00 – Countries where Jesse works
- 12:45 – Adjusting to different landscapes and cultures
- 14:00 – Success stories from TCU
- 17:45 – Importance of community buy-in
- 20:15 – Challenges of ranching in Brazil
- 23:30 – Misconceptions of ranching by environmentalists
- 30:30 – The need to be open-minded and consider other viewpoints
- 34:30 – Climate change and ranching
- 38:00 – Jesse’s family history in Texas
- 41:30 – Jesse’s family’s commitment to conservation
- 44:30 – Pressure of multigenerational ranch ownership
- 46:00 – Jesse’s career
- 47:30 – Surprises of running a ranch
- 49:00 – Texas Agricultural Land Trust
- 42:30 – Easements as a tool for agricultural
- 55:30 – Updates on Explore Ranches
- 57:30 – Mentors and heroes in ranching
- 59:30 – Our shared experience at Woodberry Forest School
- 52:00 – Lessons learned at Woodberry
- 1:05:30 – Favorite books
- 1:08:15 – Favorite films
- 1:08:45 – Hobbies
- 1:09:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience
- 1:14:15 – Favorite location in the West
- 1:14:45 – Best advice ever recieved
- 1:16:45 – Connect with Jesse online
Information Referenced:
- TCU Institute of Ranch Management
- Explore Ranches
- Jay Kleberg podcast
- Allison Ryan podcast
- John Cain Carter
- Jeff Geider
- Jim Howell podcasts 1 and 2
- Texas Agricultural Land Trust
- Conservation easements
- Woodberry Forest School
- The Big Ranch Country by JW Williams
- The Far Horizons by Christopher Empson
- Narcos
Melissa DiNino – Building a Unique Life in Big Sky Country
Melissa DiNino is a biologist, artist, and designer who currently lives and works in Montana’s legendary Tom Miner Basin. A native easterner, Melissa moved West soon after college to work as a range rider– a job that involves monitoring livestock on horseback in an effort to encourage the successful coexistence of livestock and apex predators in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. In her role as a range rider, Melissa developed a deep appreciation for Montana’s spectacular landscapes, the challenging relationship between people and predators, and the importance of compassionate communication between all stakeholders.
Melissa grew up in Connecticut, and developed an early love of adventure and the outdoors while spending time at her family’s cabin in Maine. She’s also a committed athlete and played competitive basketball from age five through college. As you’ll hear, Melissa is humble and soft spoken, but she has a track record of pushing herself hard, both in academics and athletics, as well as in her present-day professional work and art. Although only in her mid-20s, Melissa is wise beyond her years and is committed to doing meaningful work in a place that she loves, surrounded by a supportive community… and she’s making it happen in an inspiring way.
I know regular listeners will really enjoy this conversation, but it will be especially valuable to anyone who is in the early stages of their career, looking to do work that is meaningful and fulfilling. Melissa and I discuss her path to Montana, as well as some of the challenges and funny mishaps of adjusting to life in the West. We talk about the realities of piecing together a variety of different jobs and artistic endeavors, while remaining focused on the big picture of doing work that matters. We chat about lessons learned from athletics, the value of being competitive with oneself, and importance of being willing to “put yourself out there” in creative pursuits. We also dig into some details around wolves, grizzlies, and the importance of civil discourse when discussing emotional subjects like wolves. And as usual, we talk about favorite books, films, and places in the West. Links to everything are in the episode notes.
Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Melissa DiNino!
All photos courtesy of Louise Johns
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
Allison Ryan – Connecting People With Place
Allison Ryan is a West Texas native and co-founder of Explore Ranches, a company that connects its customers with spectacular private ranches throughout Texas and Colorado—some have described it as “AirBnB for ranches.” For those seeking a truly unique outdoor experience, Explore Ranches offers access to private land that has rarely, if ever, been visited by the public. And for the ranch owner, Explore Ranches creates an additional revenue stream to support the costs of land ownership, encourage conservation, and reduce the likelihood of subdividing large ranches due to financial strain. Given the lack of public land in Texas and the financial realities of owning large ranches, Explore Ranches offers a welcome solution for both landowners and adventure-loving non-landowners.
Allison grew up in El Paso, Texas, in a conservation-minded family that valued time in the outdoors and understood the importance of land stewardship. Between her childhood experiences at summer camp in West Texas, time spent on her family’s ranch, and a love of fitness and wellness, Allison has a deep understanding of the many benefits of recreating in open spaces. But Allison is also familiar with the financial commitments of land ownership, and she understands first hand the need to identify new revenue streams in order to make ranch ownership financially viable. In fact, her family’s ranch, known as the Withers, is available on Explore Ranches– it serves as an excellent case study that demonstrates the need that Explore Ranches fulfills for landowners.
If you listened to my recent interview with Allison’s co-founder Jay Kleberg, you may remember that we briefly discussed Explore Ranches. But in this conversation with Allison, we dig into the nitty-gritty details of the business—how the idea came about, descriptions of some of the available properties, and the challenges and opportunities arising from the small amount of private land in Texas. We discuss how Explore Ranches can be a useful tool for landowners, and why her family’s ranch was a prime candidate to partner with Explore Ranches. We talk about her childhood in West Texas, conservation lessons learned from her parents and grandparents, and some of her formative experiences in the outdoors. Allison also dives into her other career in the fitness world, and I veer the conversation completely off track by asking way too many questions about diet, exercise, and fasting—if you like any of my interviews with professional athletes, you’ll probably enjoy that part. And as usual, we discuss favorite books, films, and her most powerful outdoor experience.
Take a moment to visit Explore Ranches—there are links in the episode notes. And please enjoy this fun conversation with Allison Ryan.
All photos courtesy of Logan Lewis
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Jay Kleberg interview
- Dan Flores trespassing article
- Dan Flores podcast
- The Withers
- Prude Ranch
- Hudspeth River Ranch
- Fed Up
- Jamie Oliver
- Intermittent Fasting
- Ben Masters interview
- Big Bend: A Homesteaders Story by JO Langford
- Manhunt by James Swanson
- Hellhound on His Trail by Hampton Sides
- Hampton Sides interviews 1 and 2
- Unbranded
Jay Kleberg – True Dedication to Conservation, Adventure & Texas
Jay Kleberg is a conservationist and Associate Director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation. He’s also the co-founder of Explore Ranches, a new company that connects outdoor enthusiasts to some of the most iconic private ranches in Texas and beyond. Jay has built his career and life around a deep respect for land and an inborn sense of responsibility to protect these landscapes, as well as the wildlife and heritage they support. As a sixth-generation Texan landowner, responsible land stewardship is in Jay’s blood, and as you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s laser-focused on leaving Texas an even better place than he found it.
Growing up on his family’s large-scale South Texas working ranch, Jay has been closely connected to the land for as long as he can remember. After high school and college on the east coast, Jay headed to Brazil for several years, where he worked with renowned conservationist John Cain Carter to protect the region’s threatened landscapes. It was in Brazil that Jay began to hone his personal conservation philosophy and had a number of crazy adventures along the way. After working a stint in for-profit real estate and earning his MBA, Jay decided to focus all of his professional energy on conservation in his home state.
Jay and I have been friends for over 25 years, so it was a real treat to connect with him on the podcast to discuss our shared passions for land conservation and adventure… we normally just re-tell hilarious stories from high school! As usual, we cover a lot– we discuss his upbringing on his family ranch and lessons learned from both his family and the larger ranch community. We talk about his time in Brazil, conservation challenges in South America, and one close call in a small airplane that could’ve been the end of Jay. We discuss Explore Ranches, his work with Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation, his role in the upcoming film “The River and the Wall,” and other adventures throughout the West. We also discuss the importance of humility and honesty, benefits of having a for-profit mentality in the nonprofit world, favorite books, films, and more.
Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything… there’s a ton of great information here. I know you’ll enjoy this fun conversation with Jay Kleberg.
All photos courtesy of Ben Masters
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
1:24:00 – Connect with Jay online
- Jay on Instagram and Facebook
- Explore Ranches
- Explore Ranches on Instagram and Facebook
- Explore Ranches team
- Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation
- The River and the Wall
- The King Ranch
- Ben Masters podcast
- John Cain Carter
- The River of Doubt by Candice Millard
- Woodberry Forest School
- Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne
- Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose
- The Nature Fix by Florence Williams
- The Dawn Wall
- Charged
- Becca Skinner podcast
- Teen Wolf
- Great Divide Mountain Bike Tour
Daniel Anderson – Finding Common Ground
Daniel Anderson is a Montana native and founder of The Common Ground Project, a nature-based retreat, hiking, and camping experience in which small groups of people from around the world share adventure, education, and conversation. Located on Daniel’s family ranch in the heart of Montana’s renowned Tom Miner Basin, The Common Ground Project seeks to strengthen connections between people, wildlife, and the stunning landscapes of the American West. As you’ll hear, Daniel and his family’s multi-generational commitment to community and holistic land stewardship make them the perfect people to pass along the wisdom they’ve gained from the land and from life in the Rockies.
To call Daniel’s personal story “fascinating” would be quite an understatement. Born in Missoula and raised in the Tom Miner Basin, Daniel attended boarding school on the east coast and graduated from college with a degree in engineering. But soon after beginning his professional career in California, doctors discovered two fist-sized, cancerous tumors in his body, one attached to his kidney and the other to his aorta. The cancer diagnosis, subsequent treatment, and return to health sharpened Daniel’s focus on the importance of helping and connecting with others, and also led him on a ten-year journey of rigorous personal spiritual work. The cumulative result of all of these intense life experiences was the creation of The Common Ground Project.
So, as you’ve probably gathered, Daniel is an interesting dude. We only covered a fraction of what I’d hoped to discuss, but I know you’ll enjoy the conversation. We discussed The Common Ground Project, the genesis of the idea, and the moment he decided to make the plan a reality. We also talked about lessons learned from his cancer experience and wisdom gleaned from his tight-knit family, including his grandfather who purchased their ranch in the 1950s after being a POW during World War II. We chatted about his family’s long-standing commitment to collaborative land stewardship in the Tom Miner Basin, and the challenges and opportunities of land ownership in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Finally, we discussed influential books, his most powerful outdoor experience, and the insights Daniel has gained from a decade of rigorous spiritual inquiry… with mentors that even include a Peruvian shaman.
I encourage you to check out The Common Ground Project online and if the mission speaks to you, consider donating to their Indiegogo campaign. Links to everything are in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Daniel Anderson.
All photos courtesy of Louise Johns
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- The Common Ground Project
- Indigogo Campaign
- Daniel on Instagram
- The Common Ground Project on Instagram
- Louise Johns
- Tom Miner Basin Association
- Paradise Valley
- Good article about the Tom Miner Basin
- TCGP leadership team
- Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
- Ismael by Daniel Quinn
- Last Child in the Woodsby Richard Louv
- Presence by Peter Senge et. al.
- Mountain & Prairie book list
- Becca Frucht
- Melissa DiNino
- Jaunita Vero interview
- Trails Plowed Underby Charles Russell
- Living in the Futures Past
- Road House (aka Greatest Movie of All Time)
- Dumb and Dumber
- Last of the Mohicans
- Avatar
- The Man from Snowy River
- Lonesome Dove
- The Dude and the Zen Master by Jeff Bridges
- Charles Post interview
- The Great Animal Orchestra by Bernie Krause
Alexis Bonogofsky – Taking a Stand for the West
Alexis Bonogofsky is a rancher, conservationist, and community organizer who is fiercely committed to protecting the landscapes and communities of eastern Montana. While much of Alexis’s career has been devoted to environmental issues in the West, the 2011 Exxon oil spill in the Yellowstone River brought the fight to her doorstep—her family’s pastures were inundated with oil, threatening not only the local ecosystem, but the livelihoods of her family and community. Since that spill and the ensuing battle with Exxon, Alexis has become an outspoken advocate for ranchers, farmers, and rural Montana stakeholders. Through her writing, photography, and old-fashioned relationship-building, Alexis has become an invaluable force in bringing people together even in today’s divisive political climate.
Alexis grew up in eastern Montana as part of a tight-knit, hardworking, blue-collar family. Her parents engrained in her a rock-solid work ethic, a deep sense of responsibility, and a refusal to back down from bullies– characteristics that have served her well in her life and career. Alexis studied international development in undergrad and grad school, but decided that rather than taking her expertise to another country, she could apply those invaluable skills to her home of eastern Montana. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Alexis is humble and open-minded, but completely unwavering when it comes to standing up against individuals or companies that seek to take advantage of the less powerful.
I can’t overstate how much I enjoyed this conversation. Alexis is a shining example of the impact that one person can have if she’s willing to work hard, be humble, play the long game, and have the bravery to put herself out there. We cover a lot, including the Exxon oil spill and how it affected her life, work, and sense of responsibility. We talk about her time working with Native Americans as part of the Tribal Lands Partnership, and some of the wisdom gained from that job. She discusses the lessons learned from her parents and shares some thoughts on her father’s tragic death several years ago. We also delve into her writing process, hunting, public lands, goats, llamas, and our mutual contempt for bullies. And Alexis also offers a ton of book recommendations that have never been mentioned on the podcast before.
This is a seriously inspiring episode, so I’m very excited for you to listen. Be sure to check out Alexis’s blog East of Billings and follow her on social media. I have links to everything in the episode notes below. Enjoy!
Photos courtesy of Alexis Bonogofsky
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- East of Billings
- Alexis on Instagram
- Exxon oil spill in the Yellowstone
- Vanessa Braided Hair
- Wally McRae
- Gonzaga University
- University of Denver
- Albert Hirschman – Opinionated Opinions and Democracy
- The Public and Its Problems by John Dewey
- Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
- Seeing Like a State by James Scott
- Wendell Berry
- Tribe by Sebastian Junger
- When the Ground Thaws by Alexis Bonogofsky
- On Common Ground public lands video
- Modern Huntsman
- Artemis Sportswomen
- The Mountain and the Fathers by Joe Wilkins
- West of 98 by Lynn Stegner
- Montana: An Uncommon Land by Ross Toole
- Three Day Road by Joseph Boyden
- Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
Sara Dant – A Deep Dive Into the History of the West
Sara Dant is a historian, professor, and chair of the history department at Weber State University. She’s also the author of one of my new favorite books: Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. Sara’s work touches many of the topics we discuss regularly on this podcast, including conservation, water, public lands, building consensus around divisive issues, historical figures of the West, and much more. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Sara has a unique ability to explain complex and potentially dry topics regarding the American West in an engaging and easy-to-understand manner.
Whether you’re like me and have read dozens of books on the history of the West or simply have a general interest the subject, I think Losing Eden should be mandatory reading. It lays out the history of the region, starting with human migration into North America 15-30,000 years ago and ends in the present-day West with our scramble to find solutions to natural resource shortages and climate change. For me, the book connected many different time periods and concepts into one cohesive narrative, while simultaneously introducing me to new ideas and people, all in just under 200 pages.
Sara and I had a great conversation covering key concepts from her book, as well as her life as a historian, teacher, and life-long Westerner. We chat about the concept of the “tragedy of the commons,” conservation versus preservation, and the myth that the West was a sort of Garden of Eden prior to European settlement. We also dig into some of the key historical figures of the West, including Brigham Young, John Wesley Powell, Theodore Roosevelt, and John Muir. Most of you know that I’m weirdly obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt—I’ve got a life-sized cardboard cut-out of him in my office, for Pete’s sake!—so Sara gently offers a more “balanced” examination of his conservation legacy. We also discuss Sara’s upbringing in Arizona, love of trail running, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, because there’s a lot.
And since many of you are members of the Mountain & Prairie Book Club, I wanted to let you know that Losing Eden will be the November/December selection. Sara has graciously offered to answer questions about the book or even participate in some sort of online discussion, so I’ll be sorting out those details in the coming weeks. In the meantime, start reading the book and visit the book club webpage for more information as it becomes available.
For now, please enjoy this fun and educational conversation with Sara Dant.
Photos courtesy of Sara Dant
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Dr. Sara Dant
- Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant
- Sara at the Aspen Institute: Discussion 1 & Discussion 2
- Oranges by John McPhee
- Tragedy of the commons
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
- Wallace Stegner
- John Wesley Powell
- 100th Meridian
- Theodore Roosevelt
- John Muir
- Hampton Sides podcast
- Dan Flores podcast
- Changes in the Land by William Cronon
- Wallace Stegner Quote that Sara mentioned: From “Variation on a Theme by Crevecoeur”
- Where the Bluebird Sings to the Lemonade Springs by Wallace Stegner
- Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner
- Blade Runner
- Avatar
- Grand Staircase Escalante
- Hal Rothman
Hampton Sides, Part 2 – How to Tell a Damn Good Story
Hampton Sides, Part 2 – How to Tell a Damn Good Story
Anyone who has listened to this podcast surely knows of best-selling author and narrative historian Hampton Sides. I reference his books often and was lucky enough to interview him in August at the Aspen Institute, which I released as a podcast episode. In that conversation, we discussed the history of the 19th-Century American West, and many of you kindly reached out to let me know how much you enjoyed learning from Hampton. So I was thrilled—and I think you will be too—when Hampton generously stopped through Colorado Springs last week in the midst of a busy tour for his amazing new book, On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War’s Greatest Battle.
As you’d expect, we had a fun conversation that expanded upon our first interview—we dig into his childhood in Memphis, Tennessee, and discuss his life-long desire to be a writer. We talk about his early years in journalism, and how his experiences writing and editing have contributed to his success as an author. We also chat about his years at “Outside”magazine and some of the realities of being a freelance journalist and author. Additionally, he shares some of the ins and outs of his writing process, including the struggle of cranking out a first draft, a process he describes as spending time in the “pain cave.” We also discuss the Grand Canyon, Wallace Stegner’s writing, and much more.
Finally, we spend some time talking about On Desperate Ground, which I can’t recommend enough. I knew next to nothing about the Korean War, but as usual, Hampton’s writing was simultaneously educational and entertaining, allowing me to learn a lot while thoroughly enjoying the process. You don’t have to be a military history buff to enjoy this book—his exploration of characters’ personalities, motivations, and egos makes for an engaging story that will appeal to anyone who is fascinated by interesting people. And being a weird guy who loves climbing big, absurdly cold mountains, I especially enjoyed our discussion of North Korea’s brutal winters and how sub-zero temperatures were one of the deadliest forces in this battle.
Thanks again to Hampton for making time to meet up during such a busy book tour. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to all the authors and books we discuss, as we cover a lot. This was a fun conversation, and I know you’ll enjoy it.
Header photo by SERGEY GORSHKOV, headshot by KURT MARKUS.
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Hampton Sides
- Hampton’s Facebook page
- On Desperate Ground by Hampton Sides
- Washington Post review of On Desperate Ground
- All of Hampton’s Books
- David Grann
- Candice Millard
- Laura Hillenbrand
- Nathaniel Philbrick
- David McCullough
- Shelby Foote
- Steven King
- John Grisham
- Outside
- Tim Cahill
- David Quammen
- Jon Krakauer
- Sebastian Junger
- Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides
- Draft No. 4 by John McPhee
- General Douglas MacArthur
- Mao Zedong
- Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
- Wallace Stegner books
- All the King’s Men by Robert Warren Penn
- Ken Burns – The Civil War
- Ken Burns – The Roosevelts
- The Grand Canyon by Pete McBride (foreword by Hampton)
Erik Petersen – Stories of Public Lands & the People Who Love Them
Erik Petersen is a Montana-based photographer, filmmaker, and photojournalist whose work showcases the American West and the many ways we enjoy our wide open spaces. His most recent film, A Few Steps Further, explores the commonalities between backcountry hunting and mountain endurance sports, while highlighting the spectacular wild landscapes that make these activities possible. Historically, hunters and adventure sports enthusiasts have not always seen eye to eye, but through his film, Erik demonstrates that the two groups have much more in common than not, most notably a love for public lands, pushing one’s physical limits, and hardcore adventure.
Growing up in Minnesota, Erik was an avid hunter and outdoorsman– but with a lifelong love for Montana, he moved West the day that he graduated from college. He worked for over ten years as a newspaper photographer throughout Montana, honing his craft and learning to produce high-quality work under the pressure and deadlines of traditional print media. Eventually Erik transitioned into freelance photography, taking some initial assignments that included trips to war-torn Afghanistan and the surrounding region. Today, much of his work centers around the landscapes of the American West, and his photographs and films highlight many of the values that we celebrate time and again on this podcast—conservation, public lands, adventure sports, and interesting people who love the West.
Erik and I caught up on the day that A Few Steps Further was released to the public, so I’ve embedded it in the episode notes—be sure to check it out, you’ll love it. In addition to that film, we talk about some of his other creative work, including a film he’s currently making that explores the threat of a goldmine near Yellowstone National Park and the promising bipartisan coalition that has emerged to fight the threat. We also cover the lessons he learned from his years in photojournalism, and how he manages to balance his roles as a husband and father of two boys while running his own creative business and pursuing adventure sports such as hunting and ultra running. We also discuss his creative mentors and heroes and his favorite books and films, plus he gives some good advice on how to take better landscape photos.
Visit the episode notes for links to everything, and enjoy this fun conversation with Erik Petersen.
A Few Steps Further from Erik Petersen on Vimeo.
All photos courtesy of Erik Petersen.
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Erik Petersen
- Erik on Instagram
- Erik on Vimeo
- A Few Steps Further
- Hardrock 100
- Jim Howell podcast
- Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher by Timothy Egan
- Patagonia media grant
- Gianforte body slamming reporter
- Jim Harrison
- The Road Home by Jim Harrison
- Legends of the Fall by Jim Harrison
- The House of Sky by Ivan Doig
- Sarah Calhoun podcast
- Red Gold
- Ben Knight
- Camp 4 Collective
- Harry Potter books
- Crazy Mountains
Bonus (or is it a penalty?) Episode – Ed in the Hot Seat
Normally on the podcast, I introduce you to innovative individuals who are shaping the future of the American West—ranchers, writers, athletes, authors, adventurers, conservationists, entrepreneurs… pretty much anyone who’s interesting and doing important work here in the West.
But this episode is a little different. This time the tables are turned, and I’m in the hot seat, being interviewed on the local Colorado Springs podcast, The Little London Show.
A few months back, Little London Show hosts Jeff and Darcie asked me to join them to chat about my new role as Conservation Director at Palmer Land Trust, my family’s move from Boulder to Colorado Springs, and some of the lessons I’ve learned from hosting the Mountain & Prairie Podcast. I thought it was a fun conversation, and we discussed a variety of interesting topics, including public lands, Theodore Roosevelt (of course), favorite books, my journey from selling ranches to full-time conservation, and much more.
And just to be clear, I don’t think I’m an Innovator of the American West, nor do I enjoy listening to my own voice, but we covered some topics that I thought might be of interest to you guys. As usual, there are links to everything we discuss in the episode notes, so see below to access all of those resources. And if you have a few moments, let me know if you enjoy this format of me answering a few questions. If you do, then every so often I’ll plan on releasing episodes from other podcasts where I am the interviewee or possibly answering questions from you guys, if that would be of interest.
But no matter what, we’ll be back to the normal interviews with real innovators next week, so be on the lookout for that. Again, thanks for your support and thank you for listening.
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- The Little London Show
- Palmer Land Trust
- Best Farming Book List
- Book Club
- Reading Recommendations
- David Gessner interview
- Joe Grant interview
- Bundyville podcast
- Modern Huntsman article
- TR Trilogy by Edmund Morris
- The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
- Your Stoke Won’t Save Us article
- The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris
- Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
- The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko
Juanita Vero – A Deep Love of Place
[Fall 2020 Update: To listen to Juanita’s most recent Mountain & Prairie podcast appearance in which she discusses her campaign for Missoula County Commissioner, please visit this webpage. Thanks!]
Juanita Vero is a partner at the E Bar L Ranch, a family-owned dude ranch located on the Blackfoot River, about an hour east of Missoula, Montana. The ranch was purchased and founded by Juanita’s great-grandfather and has served as a Rocky Mountain retreat for families from around the world for almost 100 years. If you’ve never visited but would like to learn more about the ranch, this conversation with Juanita is one of your only options—they don’t have a website, nor do they advertise. They serve the same clients year after year, clients who value an authentic, rustic, and tight-knit dude-ranching experience that is closely connected to the land.
But the term “dude ranch” doesn’t really do the E Bar L justice. Juanita’s family has participated in some cutting-edge conservation projects, protecting their ranch with a unique conservation easement that also allows for responsible timber management. Becoming a member of the ranch’s summer staff is also an amazing experience, and it’s not uncommon for staff members to develop such a deep love of the land that they go on to careers in ranching or conservation. Juanita and her family lead by example with their business management and land stewardship practices, which seem to rub off on everyone who visits or works at the ranch.
Juanita and I connected just as she was wrapping up another successful summer season on the ranch. We had a fun conversation that covered everything from her great-grandfather’s purchase of the ranch in the early 1900s all the way up to its current day operations. We talk in detail about Juanita’s commitment to community service, and we dig into some of her work with groups such as Trout Unlimited, Montana Conservation Voters, and the Blackfoot Challenge. We also discuss her youth on the ranch, and what she learned from leaving Montana in her teens to attend an east coast boarding school. We talk about toughness, the interesting story of how her parents met, and her blind date with her now husband, which happened to be a three-day elk hunt. And as usual, we cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and more.
This was a great conversation, so I know you’ll enjoy it. Thanks again for listening.
Header photo by Kirstie Lambert, other by Juanita Vero
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Missoula, Montana
- Taft School
- The Nature Conservancy
- Montana Conservation Voters
- Big Blackfoot Trout Unlimited
- Swan Valley Connections
- Blackfoot Community Project
- Blackfoot Challenge
- Community Food and Agriculture Coalition
- A Thousand Acres by Jane Smiley
- Breaking Clean by Judy Blunt
- Deer Hunting with Jesus by Joe Begeant
- Germs, Guns and Steel by Jared Diamond
- Collapse by Jared Diamond
- The Emperor of all Maladies by Siddhartha Mukherjee
- The Four Agreementsby Don Migel Ruiz
- Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
Geoffrey Keating – Built to Last
Geoffrey Keating is a Colorado-based woodworker whose dedication to exquisite craftsmanship and creative design have made him one of today’s most sought-after furniture makers. But creating furniture is just a small part of his interesting life story—Geoffrey has also worked as a mechanic on a professional motocross team and holds two graduate degrees in theology, one from Yale and one from Notre Dame. He discovered his talent for woodworking about ten years ago while still in graduate school, and soon decided to go all in on building a career as a professional craftsman.
Geoffrey has a unique ability to understand and respect the past, while maintaining a commitment to a sustainable future. He uses reclaimed or responsibly sourced wood to create his furniture, and all of his work is built to last—he expects each piece to be passed on from one generation to the next. His workshop and home are in a beautiful 1897 building that was formerly a grocery store—he and his wife have fully repurposed the historical space to be their growing family’s base of operations. And as you’ll hear, Geoffrey’s study of history and theology plays a huge role in his design ethic and commitment to sustainability.
We met up at Geoffrey’s shop which is located just a block north of Colorado College in Colorado Springs. As you’d expect from someone with Geoffrey’s interesting background, we had a fun and wide-ranging conversation. We discuss his family’s history as craftsmen, and how he is the fifth generation to make a living working with wood. We talk about his transition from academia to woodworking, and how he managed to get his business off the ground in the early days. We chat about his commitment to quality, and how he balances his artistic goal of perfection with the economic realities of running a business. And we touch on his daily routines and techniques he uses to avoid the creative blocks that arise from time to time. As usual, we also cover his favorite books, most powerful outdoor experience, and more. Enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Geoffrey Keating
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
3:15 – Geoffrey describes his furniture
4:55 – Family history of woodworking
5:45 – Racing motorcycles and working as mechanic
6:45 – Teaching and theology
8:45 – Transition from theology to woodworking
11:15 – Starting the business
14:15 – The formation of Geoffrey’s style
14:50 – Dealing with the quest for perfection
18:15 – The business of woodworking
19:55 – History of his workshop
20:55 – Living in the West
22:15 – Life in Colorado Springs
23:55 – Commitment to sustainability
26:10 – Types of wood
27:00 – Mentors and books
29:45 – Dealing with distraction
32:35 – Goal versus process
33:45 – Dealing with creative block
35:25 – Life lessons from woodworking
36:55 – Talent versus work ethic
38:25 – Advice for woodworkers
42:25 – Favorite books
45:15 – Favorite films
46:45 – Hobbies
47:15 – Most powerful outdoor experience
50:15 – Favorite location
50:55 – Best advice ever received?
52:10 – Request of the listeners
53:05 – Connect with Geoffrey online
- Keating Woodworks
- Keating Woodworks on Instagramand Facebook
- Tom Morgan Rodsmiths podcast
- Yvon Chouinard
- Sam Maloof
- Riverside Art Museum
- The Poetics of Space by Gaston Bachelard
- Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown
- Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne
- Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
- Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky
- First Position
- Cuchara, Colorado
- Sangre de Cristo Mountains
Hampton Sides – Live at the Aspen Institute
Hampton Sides: Live at the Aspen Institute
Hampton Sides is a narrative historian, best-selling author, and editor-at-large for Outside magazine. Mountain & Prairie listeners probably know Hampton best from his book Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West, but the reality is that Blood and Thunder represents only a fraction of his work. Hellhound on His Trail, In the Kingdom of Ice, and Ghost Soldiers are a few of his other notable books, not to mention countless articles for Outside, National Geographic, and other well-known magazines. Hampton is originally from Memphis, Tennessee, but now splits his time between Santa Fe, New Mexico and Colorado Springs, where he’s the Journalist in Residence at Colorado College.
This podcast is a live recording of a conversation that Hampton and I had in front of an audience at the Aspen Institute in Aspen, Colorado. This public event was part of a four-day seminar about the history of the 19th Century American West, which was hosted by the Aspen Institute’s Society of Fellows. Since the overall theme of the week was the West, Hampton and I focused our conversation on Blood and Thunder, and chatted about the many topics presented in the book: the Navajos, the life of Kit Carson, Carson’s obsession with loyalty, Manifest Destiny, historical misconceptions about the time period, Hampton’s process for researching the book, and more. There are also a few minutes of Q&A from the audience toward the end of our talk. The Aspen Institute also filmed the event, so if you’d rather watch the interview, check out the video below.
Having the opportunity to speak with one of my all-time favorite authors at such an exceptional, world-renowned institution was a real dream come true. Endless thanks to the Aspen Institute for inviting me, and the same to Hampton for being so engaging, funny, knowledgeable, and down to earth. You’re going to learn a lot from this episode, so I hope you enjoy listening… or watching! And if you haven’t already, you should order and read Hampton’s books as soon as possible—you won’t be disappointed.
All photos and video courtesy of the Aspen Institute
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Hampton Sides
- The Aspen Institute
- Society of Fellows
- American West Public Lecture page
- The American West: The History, the Values, the Struggle, and the Legacy of the 19th Century
- VIDEO of interview
- Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
- All Hampton Sides books
- Kit Carson
- Navajo
- John C Fremont
- James Henry Carleton
- Down the Santa Fe Trail by Susan Magoffin
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
- Cormac McCarthy
- Blood Meridian by Corman McCarthy
- Shelby Foote
Pete McBride – A Passion for Water & Wild Places
Pete McBride is a National Geographic photographer, filmmaker, and writer who tells untold stories from some of the world’s wildest places. Most recently, Pete and his friend, author Kevin Fedarko, hiked the entire 800-mile length of the Grand Canyon, documenting the journey for his forthcoming book The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim. The book is an amazing combination of breathtaking photography, adventure travelogue, and an examination of some of the conservation challenges facing the legendary national park. Given the fact that more people have stood on the moon than hiked the length of the Grand Canyon, it’s no surprise that this book is a must-read.
Growing up in Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley, Pete spent his childhood skiing, playing hockey, and working on his family’s ranch. After college on the east coast, he cut his teeth in journalism at the High Country News, where he discovered his proclivity for photography. From there, he set out on a series of adventures, camera in hand, and with a lot of hard work and hustle, he eventually sold his first story toNational Geographic. After traveling the world as a photojournalist and having some close calls in Somalia and on Mt. Everest, Pete decided to focus his efforts on his “backyard river”—the Colorado River. Pete seems to have found his true calling in this iconic waterway—he has combined his artistic eye, journalistic perspective, and pursuit of adventure to become one of the Colorado River’s greatest advocates.
Pete and I met up in Aspen just before he headed to the airport to catch a flight. Even though our time was limited, we managed to cover a wide range of fun topics. We dig into the details of his Grand Canyon hike, and Pete tells a scary story of coming way too close to death early in the trip. We talk about his relationship with Kevin Fedarko, and how their differing personalities complement each other well on hardcore adventures. Pete shares more about his career as a photographer, and how he sees his strong work ethic as the key to his success. Pete also gives a great overview of the challenges facing the Colorado River, and he offers some solid book recommendations for folks who want to learn more about water issues in the West.
Hopefully I’ll get Pete back on for a Part 2 at some point in the future, because as you’ll hear, there’s still plenty more to discuss. For now, I really appreciate him taking the time to chat during such a busy time and hope you all enjoy the interview.
All photos courtesy of Pete McBride
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
Stephen Smith, Part 2 – Evolution & Reinvention
Those of you who have been listening to the podcast since the early days probably remember my first conversation with Stephen Smith. We talked for an hour and a half about his career as a professional photographer, his motorcycle adventures around South America, his time working on farms and ranches, surfing, and more. Since that conversation almost exactly two years ago, Stephen has continued to evolve as an adventurer, entrepreneur, and artist. He bought a 170-acre property in eastern Oregon, founded a plant medicine CBD company, and has continued his work as a professional freelance photographer. With all these exciting developments, I thought it was time to have him back on the podcast for round two.
Stephen has a big vision for his new endeavors, and, more importantly, he has the work ethic and risk tolerance to achieve his goals. We talk a lot about his new property, which he’s calling Crow Creek, and how he has gone about transforming a raw piece of ground into his full-time home. We also chat in detail about his CBD company ONDA Wellness, which provides all-natural plant-based relief for everything from muscle soreness to anxiety to insomnia. If you are someone who is thinking of starting your own business, or simply has an interest in outside-the-box entrepreneurship, you will learn a lot from Stephen’s story.
As you’ll hear in our conversation, Stephen is amazingly open and honest about the challenges he has encountered while pursuing these new ventures, physically, mentally, and financially. He pulls no punches when describing the difficulty of simultaneously homesteading a property, running a start-up, and freelancing, but you’ll notice that his tone remains focused and optimistic, while still being realistic. Yes, the Instagram posts of Crow Creek and Stephen’s travels around the West are stunning, but make no mistake, he’s grinding at a breakneck speed to make it all work. His journey is inspiring and real, so I know you’ll enjoy listening.
And as an added bonus, Stephen is offering a 15% discount on ONDA Wellness products to Mountain & Prairie listeners. Just use the code “ED15″ at checkout, and the discount will be applied. I can’t speak highly enough about ONDA, so I encourage you to give it a try.
Thanks to Stephen for coming back on the podcast. Hope you enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Stephen Smith
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Stephen Smith website
- Stephen on Instagram – @iamstephensmith
- First Stephen Smith podcast
- Crow Creek
- ONDA Wellness – Website & Instagram
- ONDA promo code: “ED15”
- Jack Rabbit Hill Farm
- Where the Water Goes by David Owen
- Joseph, Oregon
- Chris Eyer podcast
- David Mahaffey
- Cate Havstad podcast
- East of Eden by John Steinbeck
- I Will Fight No More Forever by Merrill Beal
- Wormwood
- Man in the Arena
Rebecca Jewett – Big Ideas for the New West
Rebecca Jewett is the executive director of Palmer Land Trust, a conservation organization committed to protecting southern Colorado’s recreational open space, working agricultural land, and stunning scenic vistas. Under Rebecca’s leadership, Palmer has moved away from traditional, decades-old land conservation methods and into a more proactive model, pursuing audacious and outside-the-box conservation strategies across a variety of landscapes. By focusing on community above all else, Palmer is finding win-win scenarios that benefit all of southern Colorado’s numerous stakeholders, from ranchers and farmers to mountain bikers and climbers, and from cities and municipalities to counties and rural areas.
Rebecca is a fifth-generation Coloradan who grew up deeply immersed in the outdoors, which instilled a passion for open space that has guided her career trajectory. After ten years in public lands-related work, she made the shift into private land conservation when she took the helm of Palmer. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Rebecca has big plans for tackling some of Colorado’s most pressing conservation issues, issues that threaten the West from ecological, economic, and community perspectives. Her enthusiasm for her work is contagious, and her ability to communicate complex issues in an engaging way is second-to-none.
Folks who follow me on social media may already know, but I was so impressed with Rebecca and the rest of the Palmer team that I recently left the ranch brokerage business and joined the organization as a full-time employee. The opportunity to apply my professional expertise in real estate and finance to some of the West’s most challenging problems was too great of an opportunity to pass up—so I’m officially a full-time Palmer staff member, Rebecca is my boss, and I couldn’t be more excited about the work ahead.
I know you’ll enjoy this conversation, because Rebecca and I cover a wide range of topics that should be of interest for anyone who loves the West. We discuss the importance of water, agriculture, open space, and recreation, and how conservation can bring together stakeholders from all of those factions. We talk about the Arkansas River basin where Palmer focuses its efforts, and how it encompasses every Colorado landscape, from 14,000-foot mountains to flat, open grasslands. Rebecca elaborates on her leadership style, and also talks about her experience being a female leader in a once male-dominated industry. She also explains some specific projects that Palmer is taking on, and how the entire Colorado land trust community collaborates toward common goals. As usual, we also cover favorite books, films, places in the West, and much more.
If you haven’t already, give Rebecca and Palmer Land Trust a follow on social media, and be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss. Enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Rebecca Jewett
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
Sarah Wentzel-Fisher – Conservation in the Radical Center
Sarah Wentzel-Fisher is the Executive Director of the Quivira Coalition, an innovative conservation organization devoted to building soil, biodiversity, and resilience on western working landscapes. Quivira was founded over twenty years ago by two conservationists and a rancher, all three of whom were exhausted by the divisive nature of the relationships between the agricultural and environmental communities. By putting their few differences aside and focusing on their many shared values, Quivira has led many of the West’s stakeholders toward collaborative, long-term solutions that improve western landscapes both ecologically and socially.
Sarah grew up in a small town in the Black Hills of South Dakota and learned the true value of community at an early age. As she grew older, she began to hone in on her interest in food—specifically how food and food production play such a huge role in the health and resilience of local communities. Her graduate work focused on the role of small-scale agriculture in New Mexico, and for six years she was the editor ofEdible Santa Fe, a New Mexico-based magazine that covers the region’s local food scene. Her background made her a perfect fit for Quivira’s mission, and her creative mindset and understanding of agriculture have allowed her to successfully lead the organization into its next phase.
I had the pleasure of meeting Sarah here in Colorado Springs as she was on the tail end of a massive road trip through the West visiting with farmers, ranchers, and land managers. We had a fun conversation and touched on so many of the subjects that are of interest to me and to the podcast listeners. We chatted about the specifics of regenerative agriculture, and some of the misconceptions among well-meaning environmentalists around grazing as an effective method to fight climate change. Speaking of climate change, we talked about why Quivira does not hesitate to discuss climate change, even though that term can be a hot button issue among certain groups. We discussed the idea of rugged individualism, Quivira’s concept of the “Radical Center,” and the organization’s agricultural mentor program. She offered some advice for aspiring conservationists, and talked about how her creativity has served her well as a leader. And as usual, we covered books, films, favorite places in the West and more.
I encourage you to visit Quivira’s website and also to check out their podcast—it’s called Down To Earth: The Planet to Plate Podcast. If you’re a fan of this podcast, odds are you’ll enjoy that one, as well. You’ll probably like it better actually. Check the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, and enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Sarah Wentzel-Fisher
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
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The Third Plateby Dan Barber
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Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
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Where Our Food Comes From by Gary Habhan
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Angle of Reposeby Wallace Stegner
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The Painter by Peter Heller
David Gessner – Voice of the West’s Past and Present
David Gessner is an author, a professor, and one of the leading contemporary voices on the natural world and the American West. He has written ten books, including All the Wild That Remains: Edward Abbey, Wallace Stegner, and the American West, which is one of my all-time favorites and was a former Mountain & Prairie Book Club selection. Thanks to his influences ranging from Henry David Thoreau to Theodore Roosevelt to Wendell Berry, David preaches the gospel of appreciating “place” and protecting our wild landscapes, public lands, and fragile Western ecosystem.
I’ve been a huge fan of David’s work for many years, and have read almost everything he has written. I cannot overstate how much his writing has helped me understand both the history and the modern-day challenges of the American West, as well as the individuals who have shaped the region. Through his masterful prose, he combines history, current events, deep personal insights, and a hilarious sense of humor into amazingly impactful books. Without his writing, my interest in land conservation would be a fraction of what it is today.
David was in Colorado conducting research for a new book focused on public lands, Bears Ears, and Theodore Roosevelt, so we met up in Boulder for our conversation. In a little over an hour, we managed to cover a wide range of topics including public lands, Stegner, Abbey, TR, the idea of “Boomers and Stickers,” and the importance of place. David described how a bout with cancer helped to change his writing style and interests, and how moving to Boulder in his thirties altered the trajectory of his life and career. We discussed his writing process, his coastal writing shack, and how his approach to writing has evolved over the years. As usual, we also touched on favorite books, films, and his most powerful outdoor experience.
Meeting David and having this conversation was a dream come true for me, so many thanks to him for taking the time to chat. There are a lot of resources and other priceless information in this episode, so be sure to check the notes for links to everything. Enjoy!
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
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The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris
- Theodore Roosevelt: A Strenuous Life by Kathleen Dalton
- Henry David Thoreau
- Theodore Roosevelt
- Wendell Berry
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Life Work by Donald Hall
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Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner
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Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
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Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey
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Crossing to Safety by Wallace Stegner
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How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan
Daniel Vergés – The Pursuit of Simplicity in Art & Life
Daniel Vergés is an artist and graphic designer who captures the essence of life in the American West through simple yet amazingly impactful paintings and drawings. Like many of my podcast guests, Daniel grew up obsessed with all things western—but unlike previous guests, Daniel grew up and currently lives in Spain, where he works and creates western-focused art in his rural studio. His life-long love of the West was solidified during the time he spent living and working on the Zapata Ranch, a 103,000-acre cattle and bison ranch located in Colorado’s San Luis Valley.
Despite living so far from the American West now, Daniel’s deep love of and respect for the landscape, people, and history would make you think he’s been here his entire life. Sometimes those of us who live in the West can lose perspective on just what a spectacular place it is, so I enjoyed learning more about Daniel’s perspective as someone who does not physically live here yet is heavily influenced by the West’s landscapes and culture on a daily basis. If you ever find yourself getting jaded about life in the West, just listen to the way he describes mountains, prairies, ranches, and bison, then take a look at his art, and you’ll snap right out of it!
Daniel and I had a wonderful conversation that covered everything from life on the Zapata Ranch to his creative process. We chatted about his childhood interest in the West and his impressions of the wide-open spaces and wildlife during his first trip to Colorado. We discussed how the West influences his art, and how he strives for simplicity in his art and life. We talked about his collaborations with other artists, such as former podcast guest Camrin Dengel, and how these partnerships fuel his creativity. Daniel also discussed how his discipline of daily drawing and his passion for creating have driven his success as an artist. And as usual, we covered books, films, favorite places in the West, and much more, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything.
And there’s one more piece of exciting news—Daniel created a special painting for the Mountain and Prairie podcast featuring my favorite animal, the bison. It’s a super-cool piece, and I’m honored that he took the time to create something so special for the podcast. We discuss it a bit during our conversation, and I loved hearing how Daniel created it. Check out the podcast webpage to see it– I set up a little online shop where you can buy shirts and hats featuring the art. There are links on the website to everything, so go check it out!
I know you’ll enjoy this episode. Thanks for listening.
Photos by Kate Matheson, art by Daniel Verges
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
3:00 – How Daniel describes his work
3:30 – Where Daniel lives
4:50 – Daniel’s experience on the Zapata Ranch
7:40 – The West’s influence on Daniel’s art
9:00 – The timeless feeling of the West
10:45 – Teambuilding through branding and ranching
11:40 – First impressions of the West
14:00 – Memorable experience from the ranches
15:40 – Learning horses
18:20 – Daniel describes his art
20:30 – Daniel’s artistic childhood
21:30 – Learning art in university, then self-teaching
24:10 – Slow Artworks
26:10 – How Daniel pushes himself artistically
28:45 – Dealing with creative block
31:30 – Lessons learned from Costa Rica
36:25 – Collaboration with Camrin Dengel and others
38:50 – Mentors and heroes
41:05 – How Daniel’s art has changed
43:50 – Managing social media
46:00 – The podcast artwork created by Daniel
49:00 – Japanese philosophy’s influence on Daniel work
52:05 – Advice to aspiring artists
55:55 – Favorite books
58:50 – Favorite films
1:01:30 – Hobbies, music, running, roping
1:03:20 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:06:00 – Favorite location in the West
1:07:20 – Best advice
1:10:30 – Request of the listeners
- Daniel on Instagram
- Slow Artworks
- Ranchlands
- Zapata Ranch
- Chris Eyer interview
- Sarah King interview
- Camrin Dengel interview
- Jillian Lukiwski interview
- Teal Blake interview
- Duke Beardsley interview
- Mark Maggiori interview
- Becca Skinner interview
- In Praise of Shadows by Junichiro Tanizaki
- Wabi Sabi for Artists, Designers, Poets, and Philosophers by Leonard Koren
- Seth Godin
- The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls
- The Wolves of Currumpaw by William Grill
- Walking by Thoreau
- My Family and Other Animals by Gerald Durrell
- Wind River
- Hostiles
- Charged
- Daniel Verges – Mountain & Prairie Art for Sale
Adam Foss – Lessons Learned From a Life Afield
Adam Foss is a world-class hunter who has transformed his passion for wildlife and wild places into a rewarding career in filmmaking and photography. Adam has been obsessed with wilderness adventure for practically his entire life. At age 24, he was the youngest person to take all four species of North American sheep with a bow, an amazing achievement for a hunter of any age. But despite this accomplishment and others, Adam is much more focused on the process of the hunt—spending challenging days in the mountains, forming long-lasting friendships, stewarding public lands, and conserving legendary big game species.
Born in the Canadian Rockies, Adam spent much of his youth bow hunting with his father and older brother. As he grew older, his hunting trips expanded in geography and complexity, and he has now hunted many of the world’s wildest places for some of the most renowned big game. Adam initially considered a career in wildlife biology, but decided to go the creative route instead—he and his wife are now the owners of Foss Media, a company that creates films and photography for some of the most iconic outdoor brands today. As you’ll hear, Adam is passionate about wildlife, storytelling, and conservation, but he is equally humble, grounded, and grateful for being able to do what he loves on a daily basis.
We caught up over Skype, as Adam and his wife are currently traveling around Canada and the American West working on creative projects. We had a fun conversation and managed to cover a lot in just over an hour. We discussed Adam’s childhood in Canada and the lessons he learned from hunting with his father and brother. We chatted about how Adam values the process of hunting over the end goal of taking an animal and our shared theory that hunting taps into something primal in our human DNA. We talked in detail about conservation, specifically the role of public lands in both the United States and Canada. Adam also offered some wise advice to people who want to learn to hunt but may not have a long-standing connection to the sport. And as usual, we discussed Adam’s favorite books, films, and his most powerful outdoor experience.
This was such a fun conversation, and it’s clear that Adam has thought long and hard about these issues. I really enjoyed getting to know Adam, and I think you will too.
Photos courtesy of Adam Foss
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
7:15 – Adam’s upbringing in Canada
8:50 – Hunting with his dad in the mountains
10:45 – University in British Columbia and more far reaching hunts
12:30 – Adam’s early career goals
14:30 – Lessons learned from hunting with his father
17:45 – Breaking down hunts into manageable peices
20:45 – The mental game of hunting
23:00 – Process over goals
25:45 – Adam’s love of adventure and challenges
27:35 – Influences and mentors
33:15 – Adam’s current goals for a hunt
38:00 – South America trip
39:30 – Hunting as a part of human’s DNA
43:15 – Advice to new hunters
48:15 – Importance of public lands
52:15 – Thoughts on wolves and ecological balance
59:30 – Favorite books
1:02:55 – Favorite documentaries
1:05:20 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:15:00 – Connect with Adam online
- Foss Media
- Adam on Instagram
- Wild Sheep Foundation
- Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance
- Andy Russell
- Life at Full Draw: The Chuck Adams Story by Gregg Gutschow
- Backcountry Bow Hunting by Cam Haynes
- Jack Frost
- Tom Hoffman
- Charles Post podcast
- Tyler Sharp podcast
- Modern Huntsman
- The Nature Fix by Florence Williams
- Horns in the High Country by Andy Russell
- The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho
- Death in the Long Grass by Peter Capstick
- Death in the Silent Places by Peter Capstick
- Tim Ferriss
- Tim Ferriss Podcast
Chris Eyer – Montana’s Mindful Mule Packer
Chris Eyer is a true Western polymath. He is probably best known for his work as a mule packer, in which he uses mules to transport supplies into some of Montana’s most remote wilderness areas—he documents the adventures on his extremely popular Instagram account @muledragger. But as you’ll hear in our conversation, mule packing only scratches the surface—Chris is an experienced mountaineer and climber, a former US Marine, a practicing Buddhist, a leather craftsman, and a successful electrical contractor. From his home base in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley, Chris leads a full and fascinating life, working hard and enjoying his connection to the natural world and his animals.
Chris was raised in California, and from an early age was attracted to the outdoors and adventures in wild places. On a backpacking trip during his teens, he came across a team of mules and was immediately entranced—from that moment on, he knew that he wanted to work as a mule packer. As an adult, Chris taught himself the ins and outs of mule packing, a hard-knocks method of learning that’s not for the faint of heart. But through this long and tough self-education, he established incredibly deep relationships with all of his animals– relationships that have significantly enriched his life in many ways.
As you’d expect from someone with Chris’s diverse set of experiences, we had an extremely wide-ranging conversation. We chat about how he became a mule packer and some of the crazy and scary experiences early in his career. We cover his time in the Marines, and the lessons he learned that carry over into his daily life now. We also discuss his connection to Buddhism and his meditation practice, and how his mindful approach to life and wilderness travel keeps him and his team of animals safe in dangerous situations. Chris also explains the specifics of mules from a biological and temperamental perspective. We discuss Chris’s unique connection to legendary alpinist Conrad Anker, as well as the similarities between packing and climbing. As usual, we hit upon books, films, favorite places in the West, and much more.
There’s a ton of amazing information in this episode, so be sure the check out the episode notes. Hopefully I’ll get Chris back for a part two, because there’s still plenty to discuss. Enjoy!
Photos courtesy of Chris Eyer
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
Sarah Calhoun – Community Building Through Commerce
Sarah Calhoun is the founder and owner of Red Ants Pants, a Montana-based apparel company that makes high-quality, American-made workwear for women. But Sarah’s business ventures are just the tip of the iceberg—she also started the Red Ants Pants Music Festival, which attracts world-class musicians like Dwight Yoakam and Lucinda Williams. The proceeds from the music festival support Sarah’s third venture, the Red Ants Pants Foundation, an organization dedicated to developing women’s leadership, supporting local farms and ranches, and enriching communities. It’s simply amazing that one person can do this much work!
Sarah was raised on a farm in New England, and spent her early career working as an instructor for Outward Bound. After reading Ivan Doig’s This House of Sky, she packed up and moved to Montana, where she began to turn her idea for Red Ants Pants into a reality. She learned to sew, taught herself the basics of the apparel business, and eventually moved to the small agricultural community of White Sulphur Springs, where Red Ants Pants opened for business. As you’ll hear, selling pants is just one aspect of Sarah’s larger vision—she’s using her company to build community, empower women, and bring together people of differing perspectives and backgrounds.
We had a very interesting conversation, and you’ll be blown away by Sarah’s focus, vision, and the staggering amount she has been able to accomplish. She talks about growing up in New England, and how her family helped to instill her relentless work ethic. She discusses her time teaching at Outward Bound, and how many of the lessons learned in that role have translated to her business. We chat about how the Red Ants Pants business model flies in the face of traditional MBA theories, and how her lack of business experience was actually a strength when starting the company. We also talk about how hard work in the outdoors builds self-confidence, as well as her future plans for the foundation. And as usual, we discuss impactful books, films, and the best advice she’s ever received.
This is a great episode, and I know you’ll enjoy it. There’s a lot here, so be sure to check the episode notes for links to all that we discuss. Enjoy!
Photos courtesy of Red Ants Pants
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
3:55 – Sarah’s personal and professional background
6:00 – Approaching outdoor companies with the idea for Red Ants Pants
6:55 – Moving to White Sulphur Springs
8:40 – The influence of Ivan Doig’s writing
9:45 – Joining the community of White Sulphur Springs
12:00 – Importance of community for Sarah
13:10 – Sarah’s childhood career aspirations
14:20 – Outward Bound
18:00 – Laying the foundation for Red Ants Pants
20:45 – History of Sarah’s work ethic
22:00 – Weathering the financial crisis
25:10 – Sarah’s daily routines
27:45 – Lessons learned over the years
29:35 – Working to expand her comfort zone
31:20 – Red Ants Pants Music Festival
37:20 – Red Ants Pants Foundation
39:30 – Value of hard work in the outdoors
42:55 – Foundation success stories
45:45 – Future plans for the foundation
47:00 – Heroes and mentors
49:50 – Advantages of little business experience
51:00 – Favorite books
53:30 – Favorite films
54:35 – Hobbies
55:20 – Favorite international travel spots
56:00 – Most powerful outdoor experience
58:00 – Favorite location in the West
58:45 – Best advice ever received
59:50 – Request of the listeners
1:00:40 – Story of the name “Red Ants Pants”
1:01:00 – Connect with Sarah online
- Sarah Calhoun
- Red Ants Pants
- Red Ants Pants Music Festival
- Red Ants Pants Foundation
- White Sulphur Springs, MT
- Ivan Doig
- This House of Sky by Ivan Doig
- Sarah King podcast episode
- Tribe by Sebastian Junger
- Blind Your Ponies by Stanley Gordon West
- Edward Abbey
- Wallace Stegner
- Ernest Hemingway
- Prodigal Summer by Barbara Kingsolver
- Wind River
Becca Skinner – Pursuing Her Passions in the West
Becca Skinner is a Bozeman-based photographer, writer, and adventurer whose work has taken her to some of the farthest corners of the globe. Growing up between Colorado and Wyoming, Becca was raised by adventurous and supportive parents who nurtured her love of the outdoors and her artistic endeavors. As a young woman, Becca’s genuine interest in social work and helping the less fortunate led to her winning grants to photograph post-Katrina New Orleans and post-tsunami Sumatra. Those experiences, and the body of work they produced, allowed Becca to pursue her passion of photography full time, and her career continues to grow and evolve in exciting ways.
As you’ll hear, Becca has been willing to be single-mindedly focused and take calculated risks to “make it” as a professional photographer. When she did not win a National Geographic Young Explorers Grant the first time she applied, she dusted herself off, re-focused her efforts, and was successful on her second try. After saving enough money, she struck out alone on a 32,000-mile road trip through the American West, living in her car, honing her craft, and continuing to build her portfolio. She has devised methods for staying positive in immensely uncomfortable situations, such as a cold, wet expedition in Vancouver’s coastal backcountry, which we discuss in detail. Despite her success, Becca remains humble and down to earth, and we had a very fun conversation.
We covered a wide range of subjects– we discussed her childhood in the West and how her family played such a formative role in shaping her career and life. We chatted about her experiences in New Orleans and Sumatra, and how the disaster victims’ attitudes toward the catastrophes varied so widely. We discussed her first road trip throughout the West and how she handled being alone for such long stretches. We also talked about the importance of having solid expedition teammates and the challenges of integrating back into day-to-day life after an intense trip. And of course, we covered favorite books, films, and the best advice she’s ever received.
If you don’t already, be sure to follow Becca on Instagram and other social media. Links to everything are in the episode notes. Enjoy!
Header photo courtesy of Becca Skinner
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Becca Skinner
- Becca on Instagram and Facebook
- Nat Geo Young Explorers Grant
- Becca’s Panama kayak adventure
- Becca’s Nat Geo speech
- Lander, WY
- Muddy Gap, WY
- NOLS
- Joe Riis
- Jim Balog – Extreme Ice
- Todd Skinner
- Playa Grande, Costa Rica
- Jimmy Chin
- Brendan Leonard interview
- Claire Fieseler
- Being Here film
- Hilary Oliver
- The New American Road Trip Mixtape by Brendan Leonard
- Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher by Timothy Egan
- Cougar Annie’s Garden by Margaret Horsfield
- Unbranded
- Planet Earth
- The River and the Wall
- Cory Richards
Brendan Leonard – Grinding It Out
Brendan Leonard is a writer and creative whose stories about adventure in wild places have built him a loyal following in the outdoor world and beyond. Whether it’s writing for his blog Semi-Rad, authoring eight books, or making films such as his recent How to Run 100 Miles Brendan combines humor, introspection, and skilled storytelling in an authentic way that strikes a chord with a wide range of audiences. But as you’ll hear, Brendan’s secret ingredient to success in his creative pursuits is his ability to consistently focus in and grind out the hard work, week after week, year after year.
Brendan is an Iowa native who moved West to attend journalism school at the University of Montana. After struggling with alcohol addiction in his youth, the West’s wide-open spaces brought Brendan a much-needed change of scenery and the opportunity for a fresh start. What started as short hikes around Missoula transformed into an all-in obsession with rock climbing that eventually led to writing gigs with Outside, Men’s Journal, Alpinist, and other well-known publications. Brendan is a shining example of how persistence, hard work, and a willingness to bet on yourself can lead to a fulfilling life and career doing what you love.
We had a wide-ranging, fun, and hilarious conversation about his life and career, and we also managed to wander into a few completely unexpected topics. We chatted about Brendan’s “all-or-nothing” personality, and the challenges and rewards associated with being wired that way. We discussed his ability to focus on the process rather than the goal, and how that approach is beneficial when creating or pursuing an outdoor objective. We obviously talked about climbing, but also discussed ultramarathons, specifically his recent experience running a 103-mile race through the Colorado mountains. And as you’ve come to expect, we covered favorite books, films, and a long list of other interesting topics.
This interview was so much fun, and I really appreciate Brendan having me over to chat. I highly recommend his books 60 Meters to Anywhere and Make It Till You Make It, so be sure to check those out.. Also, watch his film “How To Run 100 Miles”– I’ve watched a ton of ultrarunning films, and this one is my favorite. Check the episode notes for links to all of this and more. Hope you enjoy!
Header photo by Forest Woodward, headshot courtesy of Brendan Leonard
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
4:00 – Growing up in Iowa
4:55 – Writing for the college newspaper
6:00 – Applying to journalism schools
7:45 – Falling in love with the outdoors in Montana
10:10 – Discovering rock climbing
12:00 – Deep thoughts on booze
15:35 – Soakers and non-soakers
18:30 – Lessons learned from endurance adventures
21:00 – Importance of process over goals
23:40 – The reality of the creative life
24:40 – Story of Semi-Rad
29:00 – The need for a grinding mentality
32:00 – Strategies for the new media landscape
33:10 – Brendan’s creative hustle
35:30 – Focusing on the art versus the bottomline
36:30 – Today’s work ethic versus five years ago
38:00 – Brendan’s daily routine
40:00 – Creating illustrations
41:35 – Other creatives that inspire Brendan
44:15 – Film inspiration
47:00 – Revisiting old work
49:00 – Dealing with reviews and online feedback
53:00 – Managing social media
55:15 – Importance of public lands and conservation
1:03:00 – Favorite books about the West
1:09:00 – Favorite films
1:12:45 – Surprising activities
1:14:30 – Most powerful outdoor experience
1:18:50 – Favorite location in the West
1:22:00 – Best piece of advice ever recieved
1:27:00 – Request of the listeners
1:29:15 – Connect with Brendan online
- Brendan Leonard
- Semi-Rad
- Semi-Rad on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter
- 60 Meters to Anywhere by Brendan Leonard
- Make It Till You Make It by Brendan Leonard
- Brendan’s Amazon author page
- How to Run 100 Miles
- Hilary Oliver
- How to Become Great at Just About Anything podcast
- The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko
- Lionel Richie cartoon
- Dark Side of the Lens
- Fitz Cahall
- Dirtbag Diaries
- 35
- A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius by Dave Eggars
- The Nature Fix by Florence Williams
- Barbarian Days by William Finnegan
- The Secret Knowledge of Water by Craig Childs
- Craig Childs
- Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner
- The Dog Stars by Peter Heller
- Kook by Peter Heller
- Hell of High Water by Peter Heller
- Dog Stars by Peter Heller
- The Painter by Peter Heller
- A Brief History of Seven Killings by Marlon James
- Do the Right Thing
- Mistaken for Strangers
- Jillian Lukiwski interview
- Jocko Willink
Jason Rich – The Humility and Hard Work of Creativity
Jason Rich is a Utah-based artist whose extraordinary paintings of life in the American West have made him one of the most popular and respected working artists today. Throughout his 20-year career, Jason has won countless awards and is represented by some of the most prestigious galleries in the West. But what is more telling is the respect and admiration he has earned from many of his cowboy artist contemporaries– as you’ll hear, Jason is amazingly humble, gracious, and grateful for his career in professional art.
Growing up in Idaho, art has been a central part of Jason’s life for as long as he can remember. He was formally educated as an artist, and immediately after graduate school, he committed himself fully to painting professionally. Thanks to his focus, work ethic, and the support of his wife, Jason was able to carve out a niche for himself in the competitive world of Western art. Two decades later, Jason’s popularity continues to grow, which is partly a product of his constant drive to push outside his comfort zone and mature as an artist.
Jason and I had a fun conversation, and we dug into the many aspects of his life as an artist, family man, and admirer of the American West. We discussed his upbringing in Idaho, and how he developed the confidence and skills to go directly from grad school to professional art. We chatted about his techniques for challenging himself as an artist and how his work has evolved over the last two decades. We also talked about his association with the prestigious Cowboy Artists of America, and how spending time with other talented artists has influenced his work. We covered mentors, favorite books, favorite artists, and much more, so be sure to check out the episode notes for a complete list of everything discussed.
Thanks again to Jason for taking the time to chat. Hope you enjoy!
All images courtesy of Jason Rich
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
3:35 – How Jason describes his art
4:50 – Jason’s childhood
5:40 – Family history in the West
7:00 – Early memories of art
9:30 – Education in art education
10:30 – Decision to pursue art full time
11:00 – Graduate school
12:00 – Transition to professional artist
14:30 – What gave Jason the confidence to pursue art
17:00 – When did Jason know he had “made it” as an artist
21:30 – Jason’s daily routine
25:00 – Jason’s need to push himself artistically
28:55 – Artists that have influenced Jason’s work
31:40 – Humbleness + Discontent
32:20 – Cowboy Artists of America
34:25 – Ensuring historical accuracy
37:40 – Unchanged nature of ranching through the ages
38:10 – Changes in Jason’s art over the last 15 years
42:40 – Approaching art as a business
46:50 – Advice to his younger year old self
49:15 – Favorite books
50:50 – Favorite films
52:45 – Other hobbies
54:55 – Most powerful outdoor experience
56:20 – Favorite place in the West
57:40 – Best advice ever received
58:30 – Request of the listeners
59:45 – Connect with Jason online
- Jason Rich Studios
- Jason on Facebook and Instagram
- Glen Edwards
- Dean Cornwell
- Pruett Carter
- Saul Tepper
- Walter Everette
- Harvey Dunn
- Howard Pyle
- Andrew Loomis
- Norman Rockwell
- Teal Blake podcast interview
- Cowboy Artists of America
- Jim Norton
- The Art of Dean Cornwell
- Loius L’Amore
- Max Brand
- The Cowboys
- Big Jake
- The Greatest Showman
- The Naturalist by Darrin Lunde
- Gordon B Hinckley
Jim Howell, Part II – Restoring Ecological Capital Through Grazing
Longtime listeners of the podcast will definitely remember my first interview with Jim Howell—he is a rancher and CEO of Grasslands LLC, a progressive ranch management company with operations in the American West, Florida, and New Zealand. Jim was also a co-founder of the Savory Institute, a non-profit organization that espouses the use of holistic planned grazing to restore healthy grasslands around the world. Having worked close to the land his entire career, Jim has a fascinating personal and professional backstory, so I encourage you to listen to our first episode, if you haven’t already.
Knowing that many Mountain & Prairie podcast listeners either work in ranching or are interested in holistic ranch management, Jim and I decided to have a second conversation focused on more of the nitty gritty details of his process for managing ranches. We discuss a wide range of topics, from how Jim and his investors identify ranches as potential acquisitions to their methods for increasing stocking rates while simultaneously improving the health of the grass. We discuss the intense, focused planning that goes into each operation, and Jim explains how his grazing process translates into increased biodiversity and improved ecological health of the entire landscape. This conversation is like a college class in ranch management, only much more fun and engaging.
Our conversation revolves around two of Grasslands’ eastern Montana ranches—the 53,000+/- acre Antelope Springs Ranch and the 38,000+/- acre Cinch Buckle Ranch. My Mirr Ranch Group colleague Duffy Brown and I are working with Jim to market both of these ranches, so we’re familiar with the operations and landscapes and understand the amazing results that Jim and his team have been able to achieve. Both ranches serve as excellent case studies of how holistic management can bolster the health of the grass, increase profitability, and be a true winning proposition for the land, animals, and all other stakeholders.
Even if you don’t have a specific interest in ranches or grasslands, you’ll still get a lot out of this episode. Jim has very wise answers to some of the quick questions that I didn’t ask during our first interview, and he offers plenty of great book recommendations, including one book that Jim thinks every college freshman should read. The episode is packed with great information, so don’t forget to check the episode notes. Jim is a hardworking, curious, humble, and smart guy who has managed to create a fulfilling career that’s making the world a better place, so I know you’ll enjoy the conversation.
All photos courtesy of Jim Howell & Grasslands LLC
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
- Jim Howell – first podcast interview
- Jim on Instagram
- Grasslands LLC
- Savory Institute
- Daniella Ibarra-Howell
- For the Love of Land: Global Case Studies of Grazing in Nature’s Image by Jim Howell
- Antelope Springs Ranch
- Cinch Buckle Ranch
- Allan Savory
- Cattle Kingdom by Christopher Knowlton
- The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris
- Bad Land by Jonathan Raban
- PastureMap
- Christine Su Podcast Interview
- Cattle Ranches for Investment-Minded Buyers by Ed Roberson
- How to Not Go Broke Ranching by Walt Davis
- Holistic Management by Allan Savory
- No Risk Ranching: Custom Grazing on Leased Land by Greg Judy
- American Serengeti by Dan Flores
- Dan Flores Podcast interview
- Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond
Brian Calvert – In-Depth Journalism in the New West
Brian Calvert is the Editor-in-Chief of the High Country News, a non-profit media organization that covers the defining stories of the American West. Since 1970, High Country News has been fully committed to in-depth journalism that explores complex relationships between the West’s communities, business interests, and the natural world. In our current media climate that seems to celebrate surface-level, hastily written news stories, High Country News remains committed to long-form, well-researched, and nuanced explorations of complicated issues.
Brian is a fourth-generation Wyoming native who grew up in Pinedale at the base of the spectacular Wind River Range. A blue-collar upbringing, a stint in the Army, time working in the oil fields, and years spent overseas as a foreign correspondent have given Brian a unique and valuable perspective into the relationship between people and place. This depth of experience allows Brian to approach Western issues with a curious, patient, and balanced style that is becoming more and more rare in today’s media.
I was on Colorado’s Western Slope for work and stopped by the High Country News office in Paonia to chat with Brian. We had a fascinating conversation about the history of High Country News and how its commitment to in-depth journalism is more important now than ever. We discussed Brian’s upbringing in Wyoming, and why he chose to pursue journalism as a career. We talked about his time spent as a foreign correspondent in places like Cambodia, China, and Afghanistan, as well as the lessons he learned from living in such intense and sometimes dangerous environments. And as you’ve come to expect, we discussed his favorite books, authors, and places in the American West.
There’s a lot to learn in this episode, so please check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss. Also, please visit the High Country News website or consider ordering a print subscription. Brian and his team are doing important work that deserves support from thoughtful, curious folks like the listeners of this podcast. Enjoy!
Headshot courtesy of Brian Calvert
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
3:15 – History of the High Country News
5:30 – Moving HCN to Paonia
7:00 – HCN’s non-profit model
12:15 – Current shifts in modern journalism
15:30 – Challenges of producing in-depth news in the age of Twitter
21:40 – Thoughts on the rawness of the West
24:00 – Brian’s early years in Pinedale
26:25 – Joining the Army and National Guard
27:00 – Desire to write and see the world
28:20 – Adventurous childhood
30:45 – From college to foreign correspondent
33:33 – Working in Cambodia
35:20 – Where Brian was on 9/11
36:30 – Moving back to WY and working in the oil fields
40:55 – Scary events overseas
45:00 – Adjusting to US after life in war zones
47:00 – Learning to surf and surfing as a healing process
49:45 – Being selected for the Ted Scripps Fellowship
51:00 – Opportunity at HCN
53:20 – In-depth journalism in the era of “fake news”
55:25 – Importance of high values in unbiased journalism
1:00:00 – Importance of considering all sides of arguments
1:02:15 – Role of HCN in journalism for a diverse readership
1:05:30 – Favorite books about the West
1:07:50 – The American West as an idea
1:11:30 – Interesting and weird hobbies
1:12:25 – Poetry
1:14:20 – Favorite location in the West
1:15:35 – Best advice ever receive
1:16:00 – Request of the listeners
1:17:00 – Connect with Brian
- Brian Calvert
- High Country News
- Paonia, Colorado
- Ted Scripps Fellowship
- Legend of Colton H Bryant by Alexandra Fuller
- Little Big Man by Thomas Berger
- Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner
- Bless Me, Ultima by Rudolfo Anaya
- All the Wild That Remains by David Gessner
- Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
- The Legacy of Conquest by Patricia Nelson Limerick
- Charles Wilkenson
- Blood Struggle by Charles Wilkenson
- Crossing the Next Meridian by Charles Wilkenson
- Robinson Jeffers
- Robert Frost
Christine Su – The Business of Healthy Grasslands
Christine Su is an entrepreneur and CEO of PastureMap, a Silicon Valley startup that creates cutting-edge ranch management software. PastureMap helps ranchers plan grazing, track forage, monitor herd performance, manage record keeping, and much more, all with the goal of saving ranchers time and making their operations more profitable. In the business of ranching—one that has not changed much in the past 100 years—PastureMap is a true breakthrough, and Christine’s innovative mindset and infectious enthusiasm are two of the root drivers of the company’s success.
Christine grew up in an entrepreneurial family, and she has had a lifelong curiosity about agriculture and the importance of food production. After building an impressive resume that includes undergraduate and graduate degrees from Stanford, a stint at McKinsey & Company, and experience in private equity, Christine combined her business expertise with her passion for agriculture to form PastureMap. PastureMap makes active or holistic management a more realistic option for ranchers, creating ripple effects far beyond the ranchers’ bottom lines—healthier grass, increased biodiversity, stronger communities, and continued viable domestic food production.
As you’ll hear in our conversation, Christine is a truly dynamic person whose passion for agriculture is matched by her intellect and entrepreneurial acumen. We cover all the details of PastureMap and how she built the business from a simple idea to a successful enterprise. We discuss her personal background and why she initially became so curious about agriculture around the world. We also chat about the ins and outs of active ranch management, and how a holistic approach to grazing can have far-reaching benefits beyond agriculture. As you’d expect, Christine also has plenty of excellent book recommendations related to agriculture, which I know you will enjoy.
For all of you ranchers out there, Christine is offering a 10% off coupon for a year’s subscription to PastureMap, and you can claim it by using the code “PRAIRIE” on the PastureMap website. Check out the episode notes for all the details. But whether you’re a rancher or not, I hope you’ll enjoy this episode. Christine is a perfect example of someone who has merged her passion and expertise into a financially successful business that is making the world a better place. Enjoy!
All photos courtesy of Christine Su
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Episode Notes
Topics Discussed:
5:10 – How Christine came up with the idea for PastureMap
7:10 – Decision to take a break from business to work on a farm
9:45 – The importance of working ranches for healthy grasslands and a healthy planet
12:50 – Explaining grazing to environmentalists
15:30 – Impactful books about grazing
17:30 – Helping ranchers to see the value of PastureMap
20:20 – PastureMaps success stories
24:00 – How Christine expects PastureMap to evolve in the coming years
28:35 – Christine’s childhood and father’s entrepreneurial ventures
30:20 – Goals when entering Stanford
32:10 – Biggest surprise of entreprenuership
34:45 – Of all sectors, why Christine focused her start up on agriculture
37:55 – Heroes and mentors in the ag world
39:50 – Heroes of the business world
42:10 – Life lessons learned from working with agricultural producers
45:15 – Favorite books
46:15 – Favorite films
47:35 – Christine’s hobbies, including jumping in cold water
50:00 – Most powerful experience in the outdoors
52:10 – Favorite place in the West
52:50 – Best advice she’s ever received
53:20 – Request of the listeners
54:08 – Connect with Christine and PastureMap
- PastureMap
- Use discount code “PRAIRIE” to receive 10% off a base subscription!
- Defending Beef by Nicolette Hahn Niman
- Cows Save the Planet by Judith D. Schwartz
- Joel Salatin
- The Third Plate by Dan Barber
- David Montgomery
- Holistic Management by Allan Savory
- Dr. Allan Williams
- Todd Churchhill
- Russ Conser
- Wayne Rasmussen
- Grassfed Exchange
- Josh Reeves, Gusto CEO
- Angle of Repose by Wallace Stegner
- Wendell Berry
- Lentil Underground Liz Carlisle
- In the Mood for Love film
- Rotten on Netflix
- Jim Howell Podcast
