Category: The Latest

50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin

This is a special live episode that was recorded in Austin, Texas, in November of 2023 at the 50th Anniversary Endangered Species Act Symposium. As you may know, 2023 marked 50 years since the passing of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), which is one the most influential and impactful pieces of conservation legislation in United States history. This symposium gathered together an impressive and wide range of ESA experts from governmental, non-profit, and for-profit organizations, and we spent the day discussing the ESAโ€™s fascinating and complex past, present, and future.ย 

Photo by Brittany Wegner

In this episode, weโ€™ll hear from four leaders who have worked in the trenches of conservation for decades, and each of them brings a unique perspective on both the challenges and opportunities that the ESA creates for on-the-ground conservation. The panelists are:

  • Gary Frazer – Assistant Director for Ecological Services at the US Fish and Wildlife Service
  • Peg Romanik – Recently retired high-ranking attorney from the Department of Interior
  • Jimmy Bullock – Senior Vice President at Resource Management Service LLC
  • Leo Miranda-Castro – Former USFWS Director and current Executive Director of Conservation without Conflict

All four of these distinguished panelists have worked extensively within the frameworks of the Endangered Species Act, and they bring a wealth of practical and philosophical knowledge about the ESAโ€™s impact over the past 50 yearsโ€ฆ and its expected impacts in the future. But perhaps more importantly, these four panelists helped me to appreciate the humanity behind the historic, powerful legislationโ€“ the smart, dedicated, conservation-minded leaders whose work has allowed the act to effect change and evolve over the past five decades.

We covered a lot during this hour-long discussion, and highlights include: How the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach; concrete examples of productive, collaborative conservation; working with the extreme opinions about climate change; hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation; examining potential political threats to the ESA; the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation, advice for young people in the conservation field, and much more.  

This episode was the last panel discussion of the day, so if youโ€™d like to listen to the first three panels, you can do so below. Those earlier sessions include discussions with everyone from one of the ESAโ€™s authors to some of todayโ€™s most renowned conservation thought leadersโ€“ I really canโ€™t imagine having a more impressive group of conservation practitioners in one room. You can check out the Symposium program, which includes all the details of the day’s event and speaker bios. 

And one more thing: This symposium was organized by the fellows of the James G. Teer Conservation Leadership Institute, which is sponsored by The Texas Chapter of The Wildlife Society. The mission of the Teer Institute is to ensure a future legacy of well-trained conservation leaders by providing professional training in leadership skills and contemporary conservation. I was so impressed with all the fellows and left this event feeling very optimistic about the future of conservation in Texas and beyond.

A huge thank you to the fellows and to Dr. Roel Lopez of Texas A&M University for inviting me down to Austin to moderate this panel. It was an honor to be in the same room with all these amazingly inspiring folks. Hope you enjoy!

All photos by Brittany Wegner

LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:00 – Introduction
  • 10:15 – Peg describes when the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach
  • 14:45 – Leoโ€™s example of exceptional collaborative conservation
  • 21:00 – How Gary handles extreme opinions about climate change
  • 27:00 – Examples of Jimmyโ€™s work with the ESA that became financially sustainable
  • 31:30 – Hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation
  • 34:45 – Examining the security of the ESA
  • 39:00 – Discussing the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation
  • 44:30 – The panelโ€™s advice for young people in this field
  • 53:15 – Wrapping up and acknowledgments

Information Referenced:


Earlier Symposium Sessions

Session One – Past
Featuring Jimmy Bullock, Douglas Wheeler, Peg Romanik, and moderated by Roel Lopez
Session Two – Present
Featuring Terry Anderson, Ryan Orndorff, Bryan Arroyo, Dave Tenny, and moderated by Lindsay Martinez
Session Three – Future
Featuring Chad Ellis, Mike Brennan, Mike Leahy, Gian Basili, and moderated by Mike Marshall


Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

2023 Reads

A comprehensive list of every book I recommended in 2023, taken directly from myย bimonthly book recommendations email.

Holding Fire: A Reckoning with the American West by Bryce Andrews – I’ve had the pleasure of getting to know Bryce over the past few years, and I am always impressed by his ability to balance being an impressively deep thinker with maintaining a proclivity for action. He’s not sitting around thinking for thinking’s sakeโ€“ he thinks so that he can make solid choices and do good things. In this book, he thinks and writes about the history and modern-day culture of the American West, a landscape that he loves intensely. The story is centered around his complicated relationship with a .357 Smith & Wessonโ€“ a gun he inherited from his grandfather. Bryce takes the reader on a very personal journey, examining his family dynamics, mental health, and love of hunting and ranching. He also digs into broader historical and societal issues, including Manifest Destiny and tough-guy culture. Ultimately, his digging and thinking lead him to take action, melt down the .357, and hand-forge it into a tool for regenerative ranch work. A thought-provoking read. [Another thoughtful and personal book by a Missoula-area author is The River You Touch by Chris Dombrowski.]

Saving Us: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World by Katharine Hayhoe – Dr. Hayhoe dedicates this book “to everyone who believes the difficult issues in life are worth talking about,” which, statistics show, is the vast majority of Americans. Despite what the extreme edges of the political spectrum want us to believe, most folks want to learn, talk, and find common ground. Saving Us is less of a deep dive into climate science and more of a guidebook on how to have civil, productive, respectful conversations, no matter the topic. If facts, figures, and endless information could solve all our problems, we’d be living in a Garden-of-Eden-before-the-whole-apple-debacle utopia. As Dr. Hayhoe explains, statistics are worthless if we cannot communicate them across cultural/political/societal divides in an honest and civil manner. Thankfully, she’s figured out methods for having these challenging conversations, and she generously shares her techniques with us in this book. Highly recommended. [If you prefer listening to reading, check out my recent podcast conversation with Dr. Hayhoe. If you mute it when I talk, it’s an awesome discussion.]

Breathe: A Life in Flow by Rickson Gracie – Rickson is arguably the greatest all-around fighter in history, and the Gracie family is credited with transforming jiu-jitsu from an obscure martial art into the most effective fighting technique on earth. Breathe is the story of Rickson’s evolution as a fighter and humanโ€“ from learning jiu-jitsu from his domineering father to being tested on the streets of Rio, from ascending the ranks of high-dollar professional fighting to becoming the patriarch of modern-day jiu-jitsu. He provides a fascinating glimpse into the culture of Brazil in the 70s and 80s, and an even more fascinating glimpse into the sometime-bizarre, insular, hyper-competitive culture of the Gracie family. Rickson is a complex dude, and this memoir reveals many conflictingโ€“ sometimes aggressively clashingโ€“ aspects of his personal operating system. He’s humble yet arrogant, compassionate yet violent, enlightened yet bullheaded, curious yet close-minded. Whaddaya know, he’s an imperfect human, just like me! [As I read about Hickson’s obsession with “respect,” I was constantly reminded of Tamler Sommers’ Why Honor Matters.]

The Book of Delights: Essays by Ross Gay – I would have never picked up this book had it not been sent to me by a good friend who oddly seems to know what I want/need to read before I do. I wish I could explain why this book is so special, but I can’t, so I’ll just say: “I loved it.” I caught myself smiling while I read it, even though my baseline expression is apparently a scowl. The book was just what I needed at this specific momentโ€“ optimistic, hilarious, incisive, insightful, andโ€ฆ sorry to do thisโ€ฆ delightful. Gay is a poet by trade, so he has a way with words, but I most admire his commitment to forcing himself to focus on the positive. And not a Pollyanna, head-in-the-sand version of positive. Rather, he looks directly at the world’s imperfections and horrors, acknowledges them, feels them, and then continues on with his work of seeking out the delightful. [At times, Gay’s hilariously precise observations reminded me of David Sedaris, especially his When You Are Engulfed in Flames.]

Thinking Like Your Editor: How to Write Great Serious Nonfiction and Get It Published by Susan Rabiner and Alfred Fortunato – The subtitle pretty much sum it up. If you want to write a nonfiction book using traditional publishing methods, this is the instruction manual. Recommended to me by several published authors, Thinking Like Your Editor walks you through strategies and tactics that just might allow you to transform that seed of an idea in your brain into the intellectual property of a major publishing house. The book was published in 2002, so some of the specifics and references are a bit dated, but all the important stuff is still there. Note to self: Reading a book about writing a book doesn’t write the book. [Two excellent books about writing are On Writing by Stephen King and On Writing Well by William Zinsser.]

War by Sebastian Junger – If youโ€™ve been following my recommendations for a while, then youโ€™re probably sick and tired of my repeated touting of Jungerโ€™s Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging, which is one of the most impactful books Iโ€™ve read. War is the story that informed many of the foundational ideas in Tribe, and it details Junger’s time embedded with an Army platoon at a deadly outpost in the unforgiving mountains of Afghanistan. Yes, War is obviously about war, but to me, the book is more about the brotherhood that binds young men who find themselves united against a common enemy, surrounded by perpetual mind-scrambling danger, dependent on each other to stay alive. Junger does a masterful job helping someone like me (who never served) understand how war can be simultaneously miserable, addictive, and desirable, and why it has been such a right of passage for young men for as long as we humans have been fighting with each other. [To hear Junger discuss this topic for an hour, check out this podcast episode: Why Men Seek Danger.]

The Fixed Stars by Molly Wizenberg – When I read a memoir, Iโ€™m not looking for entertainment, I want to learn. And my favorite memoirs are those in which I share little in common with the author, yet their skill as a writer allows me to deeply connect with their story, understand their motivations and choices, and finish the book with a wider perspective or new way of looking at the world. I have very little interest in having my ideas confirmed or affirmedโ€“ I want to stretch and stress test my notions, to uncover any blatant holes in my thinking. So a huge thank you to the wonderful Molly Wizenberg for offering this raw, vulnerable, hopeful, and at times heartbreaking look into her life, one that made me think hard about the power of our self-imposed identities, personal evolution, and familial bonds. And while I wouldโ€™ve enjoyed the book under any circumstances, it was an added bonus that Molly just so happens to be a fun, funny, and down-to-earth human. To hear for yourself, check out our podcast conversation.

The Martian by Andy Weir – I have no idea why this book popped into my consciousness or why it rose to the top of my way-too-long need-to-read list. But it did, and Iโ€™m glad, and I loved it. I read very few novels, Iโ€™m usually not a fan of science fiction, but this book had me locked in from the first few pages. The main character was legitimately hilarious, and, as far as I could tell, the details of the story seemed to be rooted in real-life science/physics/space/smart-people stuff. And as an added bonus, itโ€™s written in a manner that flatters the ego of a not-so-smart liberal arts graduate like me by making me feel that I fully understand the physics of interplanetary rocket science. But I was especially intrigued by the backstory of the author and how he came to write such a runaway best-seller-turned-blockbuster movie. The book started out as a series of blog posts that he then turned into a $0.99 self-published ebook… and it took off from there. Fun book, fun backstory, highly recommended. [And speaking of action-packed novels, if you havenโ€™t already, read The Painter by Peter Heller.]

Industrial Society and Its Future by FC aka Ted Kaczynski aka The Unabomber – In my seven and a half years of sending out these emails, this may seem like the strangest title Iโ€™ve recommended. But thereโ€™s no way around itโ€“ the โ€œUnabomber Manifestoโ€ is a thought-provoking read. While I admittedly have a tough time separating the bookโ€™s ideas from its author, there are several sections that are amazingly prescient to todayโ€™s headlines around polarized politics and exponentially advancing technology. But unfortunately for Kaczynski, his sometimes-impressive premonitions and theories aren’t good for much other than serving as a kind of historical sideshow spectacle. Rather than using his exceptional intellectual horsepower to actually effect change, he chose to sit in a cabin alone for 20 years, fuming about how things ought to be, and occasionally lashing out violently. While Kaczynski seemed to believe the was some sort of revolutionary– the hero of his own story– I see his life as a cautionary tale of wasted potential, delusions of grandeur, and the murky gray area that can sometimes separate genius and insanity.

Crow Fair, Gallatin Canyon, and Cloudbursts by Thomas McGuane – As you can see, Iโ€™m going deep down the rabbit hole of McGuane short stories, and Iโ€™m loving it. With these three collections, Iโ€™ve been happily jumping from book to book, story to story, and have yet to finish them all. Thereโ€™s nothing I can write here that would do justice to McGuaneโ€™s skill as a storytellerโ€“ letโ€™s just say heโ€™s a literary genius and leave it at that. But what really intrigues me about him is the intensity and single-mindedness that he seems to bring to all aspects of his lifeโ€“ from writing to fishing to roping and everything in between. And how he transformed from a singularly focused, straight-laced aspiring novelist into a Key West wild man known as โ€œCaptain Berserkoโ€ and then back again to a singularly focused wordsmith. Being blessed with an all-or-nothing personality myself, Iโ€™m always seeking guidance from those who have corralled that sometimes-challenging personality trait into something productive. While I havenโ€™t discovered McGuaneโ€™s secret quite yet, I expect to have it all figured out once Iโ€™m through all these stories. Reasonable expectation, right? [Another collection I loved and revisit often is Chris la Tray’s One-Sentence Journal.]

Grizzly Years: In Search of the American Wilderness by Doug Peacock – From the earliest days of my podcast, guests have consistently recommended this book as a must-read about the American West. Now I understand why. Itโ€™s Peacockโ€™s story of finding healing and purpose in the aftermath of the violence of the Vietnam Warโ€“ an odyssey that began when he wandered into the backcountry of Yellowstone National Park while in the throes of a malaria-induced fever dream. When he came to, he was in the world of grizzlies, andโ€“ unlike me, who wouldโ€™ve screamed and cried and run for my lifeโ€“ he stayed, forming a deep bond with the beautiful-but-deadly animals. Doug credits the grizzlies with saving his life, and he has spent the majority of his life entirely focused on protecting them. A must-read for anyone who loves the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, grizzlies, or purpose-driven humans. [Doug was the inspiration for the character Hayduke in his pal Ed Abbeyโ€™s classic The Monkey Wrench Gang.]

Was it Worth It? A Wilderness Warriorโ€™s Long Trail Home by Doug Peacock – This is Peacockโ€™s most recent book, a collection of some of his incredible adventures protecting wild places. From the deserts of North America to the wilds of Russia to the coasts of Central America and British Columbia, Peacock takes the reader to beautiful and sometimes-unforgiving landscapesโ€“ landscapes that would surely be ruined without the protection of eco-warriors like Peacock. While I loved the adventure stories, I was most struck by Peacockโ€™s long-lasting friendships with many high-powered personalitiesโ€“ Yvon Chouinard, Jim Harrison, Ed Abbey, Rick Ridgeway, Doug Tompkins, and more. Iโ€™m fascinated by how that crew of rebellious legends fed off each otherโ€™s energy, increasing their impact both individually and collectively. Also, Was it Worth It? was published by Patagonia Books, so itโ€™s jam-packed with stunning photos, making it more of a work of art than a simple book. [If you havenโ€™t already, read Life Lived Wild by Rick Ridgeway, another beautiful book by a living legend.] [And here are my conversations with both Doug and Rick.]

River Teeth: Stories and Writings and My Story as Told by Water: Confessions, Druidic Rants, Reflections, Bird-watchings, Fish-stalkings, Visions, Songs and Prayers Refracting Light, From Living Rivers, in the Age of the Industrial Dark by David James Duncan – Back in 2002, I was headed off on my first big adventure in really big mountains. On the flight to Mendoza, my buddy handed me his tattered copy of The River Why and said: โ€œRead this.โ€ Who wouldโ€™ve ever guessed that more than two decades after that initial cinematic introduction to the great David James Duncan, Iโ€™d be sitting on a stage with him, trying to ask coherent questions about his legendary lifeโ€™s work? In preparation for my interview, I focused on these two collections of essaysโ€“ powerful, vulnerable, sometimes-hilarious, sometimes-heartbreaking tales from his life of writing, activism, fishing, and deep thinking. Even though heโ€™s operating on a much higher intellectual and spiritual plane than me, Duncan has the rare ability to make his nuanced, poetic ideas about place, spirituality, death, loss, and fly fishing enlightening, even to an averaged-brained human like me. I especially connected with Who Owns the West: Seven Wrong Answers, The Non Sense of Place, Beauty/Violence/Grief/Frenzy/Love: On the Contemplative Versus the Activist Life, and The Mickey Mantle Koan, but every single essay is worth multiple reads. [Duncanโ€™s newest masterpiece, Sun House, will be published on 8/8โ€“ so be on the lookout for my Sun House recommendation and our podcast episode later this summer.]

Make It: 50 Myths and Truths about Creating by Brendan Leonard – Brendan is one of the most prolific artists I know, consistently cranking out an extremely high quality/quantity of books, essays, cartoons, films, and newsletters year after year after year. If youโ€™re wondering how he does it, youโ€™re in luckโ€“ in this new book, he shares 50 ideas about the creative process. Combining his cartoons with hilariously insightful essaysโ€“ with the occasional F word thrown in for emphasisโ€“ Brendan destroys the nonsensical excuses that people like me use to talk themselves out of doing creative work. According to Brendan, itโ€™s a โ€œpolite but firm kick in the assโ€ to help people get going. And not that Brendan needs my endorsement, but I credit his example and approach with helping me to transform my little creative side projects into a full-time job. Great book. Itโ€™ll make you make. [Another excellent book on this subject is Seth Godinโ€™s The Practice.]

A Travelerโ€™s Guide to the End of the World: Tales for Fire, Wind, and Water by David Gessner – And speaking of prolific, David Gessner is back! This time, his focus is climate change. A dour topic for sure, but, as weโ€™ve come to expect from Gessner, he injects humor and wit into all of his writing, which makes the medicine go down a little smoother. A Travelerโ€™s Guide chronicles his journeys around the country, where he finds himself in a variety of climate disasters– from historic forest fires in the American West to hurricanes on North Carolinaโ€™s Outer Banks. Eschewing the ubiquitous facts, figures, and policy debates that often dominate climate-focused books, David does what he does best: he tells stories. Specifically, he tells impactful, insightful stories from the front lines of the climate crisisโ€“ stories that are still rattling around in my head weeks later and have even caught the attention of the Washington Post and Independent. [Another recent non-facts-and-figures climate change book I enjoyed was Saving Us by Dr. Katharine Hayhoe.] [And if you want to hear the authors discuss these climate-focused books, you can listen to my podcasts with David and Katharine.]

The Song of Significance: A New Manifesto for Teams by Seth Godin – I read everything Seth Godin writes. Of all his most recent books, this one is probably the least applicable to my life and work, as it is about working on teams within organizations– but I still gleaned great value from it. Thankfully, Iโ€™ve managed to escape the nightmarish dystopian hellscape that is Zoom and Slack, but amazingly, Seth seems to have figured out how to use those tools to actually bring out the best in people. Written in the same structure as many of Sethโ€™s most recent books, itโ€™s 100+ quick-but-powerful chapters that will help leaders ensure their teams are empowered, confident, satisfied, and content with their jobs. And please note, I did not write โ€œfeel empoweredโ€– Seth wants them to actually be empowered. What an outlandish, non-MBA approach to leadership! [The best organizational leadership book Iโ€™ve ever read is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin.]

Iโ€™m currently in the depths of a personal writing project that has me skimming through some of my favorite funny memoirs and non-fiction writing. Iโ€™ve laughed hysterically at The Sex Lives of Cannibals and Getting Stoned with Savages by J. Marteen Troost, When You Are Engulfed in Flames by David Sedaris, A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson, Jaguars Ripped My Flesh by Tim Cahill, and The Selected Columns of Carl Hiaasen. I also just started The Worldโ€™s Largest Man by Harrison Scott Key, and it’s hilarious. Please let me know if you know of other laugh-out-loud non-fiction writers that I may be missing.

Call Sign Chaos: Learning to Lead by Jim Mattis and Bing West – An acquaintance of mine who I greatly admire named his first son Mattis, so that was all the encouragement I needed to read this book. Itโ€™s the Generalโ€™s memoir, covering his life as a wild, trouble-making teen through his highly accomplished career as a Marine and public servant. When it came to serving his country, Mattis was all inโ€“ he never married, maniacally read and studied history, and was intimately involved in almost all of the major military events of the past 30+ years. He earned the respect of both his superiors and subordinates and is rightly considered one of the militaryโ€™s most effective leaders in recent history. I loved Mattisโ€™s focus on reading (โ€œIf you haven’t read hundreds of books, you are functionally illiterateโ€ฆโ€), and I was intrigued by the constant friction between the paper pushers in Washington and the soldiers on the ground in war zones. I was also fascinated by his ideas about managing crises vs. eliminating them, and his frustrations whenever politics thwarted his ability to achieve his military objectives. I loved this book. [One of my other favorite memoirs is Shoe Dog by Phil Knight.]

Leadership Strategy and Tactics: Field Manual by Jocko Willink – This was the sole remaining leadership book by Jocko that I had yet to read, and I cranked through it in a day. Jocko has the rare ability to write in a clear, not-fancy, easy-to-understand style, yet his paragraphs still manage to carry a ton of weight. The purpose of this book is to clearly and simply provide actionable wisdom on leadershipโ€“ specific methods to overarching ideologies that can be applied anywhere from the battlefield to the family dining room table. Despite his warrior pedigree and tough-guy veneer, his approach to leadership is much more Dalai Lama than General MacArthurโ€“ he emphasizes listening, abolishing ego, building relationships, being of service to subordinates, and letting go of control. A worthwhile read for leaders of all stripes. [Jockoโ€™s Extreme Ownership is one of the most perspective-shifting books Iโ€™ve ever read.]

Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior by Chรถgyam Trungpa – This was the second book I ever read about Buddhist philosophy. I bought it immediately after my first mediation workshop at the Shambhala Center, the organization founded by Trungpa. Very little of it made sense to me when I read it back in 2012, but this time around, with dozens of Eastern philosophy books and hundreds of hours of meditation under my belt, it struck a much stronger chord. The basic idea (as I understand it) is that true contentment and peace cannot be found externally, only through nurturing our minds with curiosity and compassion. A decade ago, I wouldโ€™ve laughed out loud at the preceding spiritual-mumbo-jumbo sentence, but thanks to books like this, I really do believe that mumbo-jumbo to be true. [The first Buddhism-focused book I ever read was The Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama.]

Donโ€™t Bite the Hook by Finding Freedom from Anger, Resentment, and Other Destructive Emotions by Pema Chodron (audiobook) – I estimate that Iโ€™ve listened to this book at least 20 times, two of those being during the past month. The subtitle gives you all the information you need to know about its topic, but Iโ€™ll use this recommendation to once again proclaim: Pema Chodron is one of the wisest humans walking the earth today. I love everything she writes, and I love listening to her lecture even more. Iโ€™ve never met her, Iโ€™m not a Buddhist, nor do I have any plans to convert, but I still consider her one of my greatest teachers. [Another Pema audiobook that Iโ€™ve had on rotation for many years is Smile at Fear.]

The 5 Second Rule: Transform your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins (audiobook) – One of my reading goals for 2023 was to avoid self-help books like the plague. But the Algorithmic Overlords started feeding me clips of the unmistakably tough-talking, no-nonsense Mel Robbins, and before I knew what had happened, I was listening to this audiobook on one of my many long drives. As much as I hate to admit it, I think Mel is on to something here, at least when it comes to my problem with procrastination. Basically, sheโ€™s extolling the virtues of quickly and aggressively breaking the inertia of fear/laziness/stalling, then immediately forcing yourself to simply start working. None of this is new, and all of it is simple and unsurprising. But implementing these tactics can be surprisingly difficult, a fact that she seems to enjoy repeating. Iโ€™m not sure if itโ€™s Melโ€™s ingratiating midwestern accent or her charismatic repackaging of age-old ideas, but Iโ€™ve been counting to five and getting to work and feeling better about myself, so I won’t ask to many questions and will just go with it. [The Art of Taking Action by Gregg Krech is a different version of the same idea with a wildly different tone.]

Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: And Other Tough-Love Truths to Make You a Better Writer by Steven Pressfield – Later this week, Iโ€™ll be pointing my truck westward and heading to Vernal, Utah, which is the launching point for my first-ever course as an instructor with the Freeflow Institute. Weโ€™ll be exploring how to use storytelling as a tool to effect change, and how to respectfully capture peopleโ€™s attention in an increasingly loud and mostly annoying media landscape. My first assignment to the students was this straight-to-the-point book, a book selection that very well may have caused s few of them to question their teacher’s judgment and their own decision to attend the workshop. Anyway, I live by Pressfieldโ€™s foul-mouthed credo, and I fully embrace the fact that no one is going to beat down the door to listen to my podcast, read my writing, or subscribe to my emailsโ€“ itโ€™s on me to make something that is worth consuming and sharing. [Pressfieldโ€™s Turning Pro also packs a punch.]

Call an Audible: Let My Pivot from Harvard Law to NFL Coach Inspire Your Transition by Daron K. Roberts – Iโ€™ve been a loyal subscriber to Coach Roberts’ weekly email for several years, and Iโ€™m always happy to see his name show up in my inbox every Wednesday. Both Daron and his writing are funny, no-nonsense, inspiring, and practical. Iโ€™d been wanting to read his memoir for quite some time now, and Iโ€™m do glad I finally did. The book follows his journey from growing up in small-town Texas to Student Body President at the University of Texas to student at Harvard Law School. And as the subtitle explains, upon graduating from Harvard, he took an aggressive turn off the beaten path and focused his overflowing energy on becoming an NFL coach. My takeaways from Daronโ€™s professional odyssey are: 1) He was not above performing even the most menial, ego-challenging tasks, 2) He understood the importance of building solid relationships up and down the chain of command, 3) He would respectfully not take no for an answer, and 4) He was willing to work harder than his competition. Daronโ€™s story will resonate with anyone who has followed (or dreams of following) an unconventional path. [Speaking of football, Monte Burkeโ€™s Saban is excellent.]

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside by Nick Offerman – You probably know Nick from his portrayal of Ron Swanson on NBCโ€™s Parks and Recreation, but that legendary performance is only the tip of the icebergโ€“ heโ€™s a master woodworker, disciple of Wendell Berry, traveling humorist, regenerative agriculture advocate, and voracious reader, just to name a few. In this, his newest book, he explores ideas around conservation, land stewardship, and responsible, thoughtful living through a series of adventures and misadventures in the American West and English countryside. Combining his insatiable curiosity with his unmistakable humor, the book is basically a blueprint for how to be kind (i.e., not a jerk), thoughtful (i.e., not a shallow-thinking idiot), humble (i.e., not a narcissist), and a hard worker (i.e., not a lazy slob). In September of 2023, this book was named The Official Mountain & Prairie Guide to Life (by me). [To hear Nick and I discuss the book, as well as more obscure topics such as โ€œold Superman,โ€ check out our recent podcast conversation.]

Paddle Your Own Canoe: One Man’s Fundamentals for Delicious Living by Nick Offerman – This was Nickโ€™s first foray into the publishing worldโ€“ and also his first of five appearances on the New York Times bestseller list. Published back in 2013, it’s his life story spanning from his youth in a small, tight-knit Midwestern community up to when he โ€œmade itโ€ as an actor after nearly 20 years of grinding on the lower rungs of show business. Nick is hilariously self-deprecating and not at all impressed by fame or wealth, which makes this memoir an even more refreshing and inspirational read. Funny stories, insightful wisdom, and applicable life lessonsโ€“ thereโ€™s value for anyone who places a premium on being a good person. Oh, and Nick narrates all of his audiobooks, as well as three of Wendell Berryโ€™s. So, despite my preference for paper, I can wholeheartedly recommend the audio versions of everything heโ€™s involved with. [I also enjoyed a smattering of chapters from Nickโ€™s book Gumption, particularly Frederick Douglass, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jeff Tweedy, and Conan Oโ€™Brien.]

The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance by Rebecca Clarren – There are plenty of books lining the shelves that follow worn-out, not-productive approaches to reckoning with horrors of the past. Some purposefully ignore facts, some blindly and perpetually cast blame, and others self-flagellate into absurdity. The Cost of Free Land is not one of those books. Rebecca takes a nuanced, clear-eyed approach to understanding her familyโ€™s complex historyโ€“ they fled anti-Semitism in Russia and established a new life on the plains of South Dakota, eventually finding success as land-and-business owners. But her familyโ€™s success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Combining vulnerable family memoir with deeply researched history, Rebecca digs into her familyโ€™s complicated past, and then digs into her own Jewish faith to find a productive, healing path forward. I loved it. A must-read. [Another powerful examination of family and brutal history is Sugar in the Blood by Andrea Stuart.]

Wild New World: The Epic Story of Animals and People in America by Dan Flores – I read everything Dan Flores writes. No matter how micro or macro the subject, he presents his narrative in an engaging style that makes hardcore history read like a fast-paced novel. This book definitely falls into the โ€œmacroโ€ categoryโ€“ itโ€™s a โ€œbig historyโ€ covering the past 66 million years of life here on good olโ€™ Planet Earth. Most of the book is devoted to humansโ€™ relatively brief reign as the apex predator of the world, with an emphasis on just how drastically we have altered the landscapes, flora, and fauna of North America during that short time. But this is not a gloom-and-doom, humans-ruined-the-planet, all-is-lost kind of book. Rather, itโ€™s a realistic accounting of our past that ends with an optimistic appraisal of our current trajectory into the future. [To better understand some of the people and legislation that put us on our current trajectory, read Douglas Brinkleyโ€™s Silent Spring Revolution.]

Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – Losing Eden is definitely one of my most-often recommended books. But despite its being my absolute favorite overview of conservation and environmentalism in the West, the original edition never seemed to reach a broad audience. Thankfully thatโ€™s changing, because University of Nebraska Press bought the rights, Sara updated the book, and the end result is an even more substantial tome, complete with new photos, maps, and suggested reading lists. The bookโ€™s new format and the new publisherโ€™s willingness to promote itโ€“ not to mention Saraโ€™s appearances in the new Ken Burns documentaryโ€“ will get this very important book into the hands of a much, much larger audience.

The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years by Vincent Stanley with Yvon Chouinard – Iโ€™ve been a Patagonia customer for nearly 30 years, but it wasnโ€™t until I was enrolled in grad school earning my MBA that I began studying Patagoniaโ€™s business philosophies. On my own time, I read Yvonโ€™s classic Let My People Go Surfing, which aggressively contradicted much of the standard business instruction I was receiving in the classroom. I often say that a tiny Milton Friedman was whispering his shareholder-value philosophies in one ear, and a tiny Yvon was ranting about responsibility into the other. Ultimately, Yvon won that battle, but I had much more to learn. Thatโ€™s why I loved this bookโ€“ itโ€™s a quick-but-effective recap of Patagoniaโ€™s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, combined with actionable steps that any company or entrepreneur can follow to be more responsible and deliberateโ€“ while still turning a healthy profit. [Vincent is an amazing thinker, doer, writer, and speaker, so you might enjoy my recent podcast conversation with him.]

Trusting the Gold: Uncovering Your Natural Goodness by Tara Brach – My guru recommended that I read this book. It was a prescription of sorts, one that was intended to help me lighten up, to quit being so hard on myself. To find a Zen-like approach to internal motivation that does not involve mental beatdowns and comically brutal self-talk. Tara is both a renowned meditation teacher and a highly trained PhD psychologist, so, if anybody can help me break my unproductive self-bullying habits, itโ€™s her. Iโ€™ve been reading a chapter or two before bed (each chapter is three pages max), and, I have to say, Iโ€™ve been lightening up a bit. Of course that could be related to the daily meditation, excessive exercise, ice baths, breath holds, guru sessions, fasting, or any number of weird โ€œself-careโ€ protocolsโ€“ but for the purpose of this email, Iโ€™ll give 85% of the credit to Tara and her excellent book. [Iโ€™ve also been a longtime fan of Taraโ€™s classic book Radical Acceptance.]

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside by Nick Offerman – You probably know Nick from his portrayal of Ron Swanson on NBCโ€™s Parks and Recreation, but that legendary performance is only the tip of the icebergโ€“ heโ€™s a master woodworker, disciple of Wendell Berry, traveling humorist, regenerative agriculture advocate, and voracious reader, just to name a few. In this, his newest book, he explores ideas around conservation, land stewardship, and responsible, thoughtful living through a series of adventures and misadventures in the American West and English countryside. Combining his insatiable curiosity with his unmistakable humor, the book is basically a blueprint for how to be kind (i.e., not a jerk), thoughtful (i.e., not a shallow-thinking idiot), humble (i.e., not a narcissist), and a hard worker (i.e., not a lazy slob). In September of 2023, this book was named The Official Mountain & Prairie Guide to Life (by me). [To hear Nick and I discuss the book, as well as more obscure topics such as โ€œold Superman,โ€ check out our recent podcast conversation.]

Paddle Your Own Canoe: One Man’s Fundamentals for Delicious Living by Nick Offerman – This was Nickโ€™s first foray into the publishing worldโ€“ and also his first of five appearances on the New York Times bestseller list. Published back in 2013, it’s his life story spanning from his youth in a small, tight-knit Midwestern community up to when he โ€œmade itโ€ as an actor after nearly 20 years of grinding on the lower rungs of show business. Nick is hilariously self-deprecating and not at all impressed by fame or wealth, which makes this memoir an even more refreshing and inspirational read. Funny stories, insightful wisdom, and applicable life lessonsโ€“ thereโ€™s value for anyone who places a premium on being a good person. Oh, and Nick narrates all of his audiobooks, as well as three of Wendell Berryโ€™s. So, despite my preference for paper, I can wholeheartedly recommend the audio versions of everything heโ€™s involved with. [I also enjoyed a smattering of chapters from Nickโ€™s book Gumption, particularly Frederick Douglass, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jeff Tweedy, and Conan Oโ€™Brien.]

The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance by Rebecca Clarren – There are plenty of books lining the shelves that follow worn-out, not-productive approaches to reckoning with horrors of the past. Some purposefully ignore facts, some blindly and perpetually cast blame, and others self-flagellate into absurdity. The Cost of Free Land is not one of those books. Rebecca takes a nuanced, clear-eyed approach to understanding her familyโ€™s complex historyโ€“ they fled anti-Semitism in Russia and established a new life on the plains of South Dakota, eventually finding success as land-and-business owners. But her familyโ€™s success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Combining vulnerable family memoir with deeply researched history, Rebecca digs into her familyโ€™s complicated past, and then digs into her own Jewish faith to find a productive, healing path forward. I loved it. A must-read. [Another powerful examination of family and brutal history is Sugar in the Blood by Andrea Stuart.]

Wild New World: The Epic Story of Animals and People in America by Dan Flores – I read everything Dan Flores writes. No matter how micro or macro the subject, he presents his narrative in an engaging style that makes hardcore history read like a fast-paced novel. This book definitely falls into the โ€œmacroโ€ categoryโ€“ itโ€™s a โ€œbig historyโ€ covering the past 66 million years of life here on good olโ€™ Planet Earth. Most of the book is devoted to humansโ€™ relatively brief reign as the apex predator of the world, with an emphasis on just how drastically we have altered the landscapes, flora, and fauna of North America during that short time. But this is not a gloom-and-doom, humans-ruined-the-planet, all-is-lost kind of book. Rather, itโ€™s a realistic accounting of our past that ends with an optimistic appraisal of our current trajectory into the future. [To better understand some of the people and legislation that put us on our current trajectory, read Douglas Brinkleyโ€™s Silent Spring Revolution.]

Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – Losing Eden is definitely one of my most-often recommended books. But despite its being my absolute favorite overview of conservation and environmentalism in the West, the original edition never seemed to reach a broad audience. Thankfully thatโ€™s changing, because University of Nebraska Press bought the rights, Sara updated the book, and the end result is an even more substantial tome, complete with new photos, maps, and suggested reading lists. The bookโ€™s new format and the new publisherโ€™s willingness to promote itโ€“ not to mention Saraโ€™s appearances in the new Ken Burns documentaryโ€“ will get this very important book into the hands of a much, much larger audience.

The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years by Vincent Stanley with Yvon Chouinard – Iโ€™ve been a Patagonia customer for nearly 30 years, but it wasnโ€™t until I was enrolled in grad school earning my MBA that I began studying Patagoniaโ€™s business philosophies. On my own time, I read Yvonโ€™s classic Let My People Go Surfing, which aggressively contradicted much of the standard business instruction I was receiving in the classroom. I often say that a tiny Milton Friedman was whispering his shareholder-value philosophies in one ear, and a tiny Yvon was ranting about responsibility into the other. Ultimately, Yvon won that battle, but I had much more to learn. Thatโ€™s why I loved this bookโ€“ itโ€™s a quick-but-effective recap of Patagoniaโ€™s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, combined with actionable steps that any company or entrepreneur can follow to be more responsible and deliberateโ€“ while still turning a healthy profit. [Vincent is an amazing thinker, doer, writer, and speaker, so you might enjoy my recent podcast conversation with him.]

Trusting the Gold: Uncovering Your Natural Goodness by Tara Brach – My guru recommended that I read this book. It was a prescription of sorts, one that was intended to help me lighten up, to quit being so hard on myself. To find a Zen-like approach to internal motivation that does not involve mental beatdowns and comically brutal self-talk. Tara is both a renowned meditation teacher and a highly trained PhD psychologist, so, if anybody can help me break my unproductive self-bullying habits, itโ€™s her. Iโ€™ve been reading a chapter or two before bed (each chapter is three pages max), and, I have to say, Iโ€™ve been lightening up a bit. Of course that could be related to the daily meditation, excessive exercise, ice baths, breath holds, guru sessions, fasting, or any number of weird โ€œself-careโ€ protocolsโ€“ but for the purpose of this email, Iโ€™ll give 85% of the credit to Tara and her excellent book. [Iโ€™ve also been a longtime fan of Taraโ€™s classic book Radical Acceptance.]


SUBSCRIBE to Ed’s Book Recommendations!

* indicates required

Paige Lewis – Durable Conservation, Collective Action, and Strategic Thinking

Paige Lewis

Paige Lewis is the Deputy State Director and Director of Conservation Programs for The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. In this role, she serves as the chapterโ€™s chief conservation officer and is responsible for leading the development of innovative, large-scale and entrepreneurial solutions to the challenges facing people and nature in Colorado and around the world. Paige brings a unique skill set that combines big-picture thinking with tangible, one-the-ground executionโ€“ her work involves creating ambitious, large-scale strategies, while also ensuring that the TNC team has the resources, communication, and support to accomplish its goals.

Over the course of this 2023 podcast series with TNC Colorado, weโ€™ve highlighted both the breadth and depth of the organizationโ€™s work in Colorado and beyond. From grassland conservation to sustainable water management to forest health to urban conservation efforts (and much more!), itโ€™s been amazing to learn about the positive impact that TNC is having across such a broad spectrum of pressing environmental issues. And if youโ€™ve wondered, as I have, how TNC successfully aligns so many initiatives, teams, and stakeholders toward common organizational goals, well, youโ€™re in luck, because thatโ€™s exactly what Paige does!

Paige and I sat down at the TNC office in Boulder just before the holidays and had a fun conversation that looked back at some of the 2023 conservation wins and looked forward toward TNCโ€™s ambitious goals for the future. We started out discussing Paigeโ€™s lifelong appreciation for conservation, and her career that took her from her home state of Utah to Washington DC and eventually to Colorado. We discussed her skill of thinking strategically while also focusing on the need to get things done, and how she has managed to keep so many balls in the air year after year. We talk about durable conservation, collective action, and embracing risk, and we also discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with setting ambitious goals. Paige is a voracious reader and lover of history, so she has tons of excellent book recommendations.

A big thank you to Paige for taking the time to chat with me during such a busy time of year, and, once again, thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo by Ethan Herrold/TNC Photo Contest 2019; headshot by Lauryn Wachs.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – How Paige became interested in conservation
  • 9:15 – Paigeโ€™s first conservation jobย 
  • 10:45 – Adjusting from the West to DC
  • 11:45 – Paigeโ€™s return West
  • 15:00 – How Paige ended up at TNC
  • 18:30 – Paigeโ€™s role at TNC
  • 23:30 – An example of successful collaborative work in Paigeโ€™s time at TNC
  • 27:15 – What Paige is most proud of in TNCโ€™s 2023 work
  • 30:30 – Reflecting on TNCโ€™s progress towards their 2026 strategic goals
  • 34:30 – How Paige prioritizes and keeps all the balls in the air
  • 39:45 – What โ€œdurable conservationโ€ means and looks like to Paige
  • 42:30 – What โ€œcollective actionโ€ means and looks like to Paige
  • 45:30 – How Paige knows when to shift from ideation and relationship building to action
  • 48:45 – How TNCโ€™s approach to taking risks has changed during Paigeโ€™s tenure
  • 52:15 – What qualities Paige thinks makes a good team member at TNC
  • 56:15 – Paigeโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:02:15 – Paigeโ€™s parting words

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose

Jenna Pollard is a timber framer, a farmer, and an advocate for organic agriculture, but at her core, she is a teacher. The list of Jennaโ€™s inspiring projects, causes, and interests is too extensive to summarize in a few sentences, but to give you an overview: She hosts workshops for women in which they learn the art of timber framing and build structures as a team from the ground up. Sheโ€™s a team member with Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms (also known as WWOOF), where she helps to provide opportunities for aspiring farmers to build their careers. Sheโ€™s also a committed traveler, community builder, reader, and all-around inspiring human.

Born and raised in South Dakota, Jenna grew up immersed in the outdoors and various outdoor adventures. After college, she went to work on an organic farm, which began her professional passion for working closely with the land surrounded by a community of like-minded individuals. As youโ€™ll hear, she continued to follow her curiosity and has enjoyed a fulfilling and wide-ranging careerโ€“ she worked as a teacher in Japan, built her own timber-frame home on the South Dakota prairie, and became deeply involved in helping to develop the skills and confidence of future farmers and timber framers. But if thereโ€™s a thread that connects all of Jennaโ€™s work, itโ€™s her commitment to building community through hard work and shared purposeโ€“ one of my favorite topics to discuss.

I first learned about Jenna through a short film by Patagonia Workwear that profiled her womenโ€™s timber-framing workshopsโ€“ Iโ€™ve linked to the film in the episode notes. So I was thrilled that our schedules aligned so that we could have this conversation, and I learned so much for her. We discussed her upbringing in South Dakota and how her outdoor-focused childhood laid the foundation for her career. We discussed the intricacies of timber framing, and why it is such a powerful skill for building community and confidence. We talk a lot about WWOOF and its Future Farming Program, and Jenna offers some ways that aspiring farmers can get involved. We also discuss books, how Jenna accomplishes so much, how Patagonia has encouraged and supported her work, lessons learned from Japan, and much much more.

If you want to connect with Jenna, attend a workshop, or learn more about WWOOF, there are links to everything in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Jenna Pollard.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:30 – Where Jenna grew up
  • 4:15 – What Jenna did for fun as a kid
  • 6:30 – Turning points in Jennaโ€™s life regarding self-sufficiency in the outdoors
  • 8:45 – Post-high school for Jenna
  • 11:00 – How something like WWOOFing drew Jennaโ€™s career attention
  • 13:30 – Books and thinkers that influenced Jennaโ€™s agrarian lifestyle
  • 16:00 – Defining โ€œtimber framing,โ€ and exploring why it captured Jennaโ€™s attention
  • 20:00 – When Jenna decided to start teaching timber framing
  • 21:15 – Discussing the process of Jenna building her house in South Dakota
  • 24:45 – How Jenna came to specifically teach women how to timber frame
  • 38:15 – How Patagonia became interested in Jennaโ€™s timber framing classes
  • 30:45 – Continuing to explore the importance of Jennaโ€™s work with women
  • 33:00 – Jennaโ€™s success stories from her classes
  • 37:15 – The relationships that Jenna builds through timber framing
  • 39:15 – Jennaโ€™s studentsโ€™ goals
  • 40:45 – Discussing WWOOF
  • 43:15 – Discussing the 2024 Future Farming Program
  • 47:15 – How Jenna manages to do all of this!
  • 48:15 – Jennaโ€™s time as a teacher in Japan
  • 52:30 – Whether or not Jenna ever questioned her path
  • 55:15 – Jennaโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:01:15 – Jennaโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Diana Lane & Aaron Derwingson – Thriving Rivers, Resilient Agriculture, and Strong Communities

Diana Lane

Diana Lane is the Director of Sustainable Food and Water at the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy, and Aaron Derwingson is the Water Projects Director for the Nature Conservancyโ€™s Colorado River Program. Both Diana and Aaron work at the intersection of water sustainability, thriving rivers, resilient agriculture, and strong communitiesโ€“ harnessing TNCโ€™s relationships and resources to advance some of the most cutting-edge and effective conservation initiatives in the American West.

Diana and Aaron bring a diverse set of skills and experiences to their work at TNC. Diana holds a PhD in Biological Sciences and has spent much of her career working with a wide array of partners on restoration ecology and planning, climate adaptation, and management of public funding. Aaron is a river guide-turned-conservationist who began his career focusing on conservation in the Rio Grande River basin, and now applies his skills toward creating pragmatic, solution-oriented approaches to freshwater challenges in the greater Colorado River basin. But perhaps most importantly, they both bring a deep level of passion and focus to their workโ€“ their optimistic commitment to solving some of the Westโ€™s most pressing water and agricultural challenges is infectious.

Aaron Derwingson

Diana, Aaron, and I connected virtually and had an educational and inspiring conversation about water, agriculture, and community here in Colorado and beyond. We discussed some of the most urgent water-related challenges and opportunities and how they are working with a wide range of stakeholders to find mutually beneficial solutions. We discuss the Yampa River fund, their work helping agricultural producers adjust to a drier climate, and the all-important role of building solid relationships with stakeholders. We discussed the Maybell Irrigation Ditch Project, which is a fascinating, win-win project for both producers and recreational river users, and we discussed some of the water-related challenges that keep both Diana and Aaron up and night. And as usual, they both have plenty of excellent book recommendations.  

A huge thank you to Diana and Aaron for taking the time to talk with me, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy!

Header photo by Ken Geiger; all photos courtesy of the Nature Conservancy.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Diana and Aaronโ€™s backgrounds
  • 7:30 – Aaronโ€™s read on the future of water
  • 12:30 – Dianaโ€™s overview of the Yampa River Fund
  • 18:30 – Aaronโ€™s work with producers to adjust to the new water reality
  • 23:15 – The process of building relationships with producers for water projects
  • 27:00 – The Colorado Water Planโ€™s impact on Diana and Aaronโ€™s work
  • 31:45  – Discussing the Yampa River Fund
  • 41:15 – The things about Colorado water that keep Diana and Aaron up at night
  • 47:15 – What makes a solid conservation professional
  • 51:00 – How you can help TNC in this work
  • 55:30 – Diana and Aaronโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:00:00 – Parting requests and words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire

John Vaillant
(photo credit: John Sinal)

John Vaillant is a renowned writer and journalist whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, National Geographic, and more, and heโ€™s also the author of classic books including The Tiger and The Golden Spruce. His most recent book is titled Fire Weather: A True Story from a Hotter World, which is a must-read for anyone interested in wildfires, humansโ€™ relationship with fire, and the future of fire-related disasters. And you donโ€™t have to take my word for itโ€“ the book won the 2023 Baillie Gifford Prize for Non-Fiction and was a finalist for both the National Book Award and the Hilary Weston Writers’ Trust Prize for Nonfiction.

Fire Weather tells the story of the 2016 Fort McMurray wildfireโ€“ a historic and apocalyptic fire that torched the city of Fort McMurray, Alberta, and spread across nearly 1.5 million acres of forest. With this epic disaster as the focal point, John masterfully weaves in the fascinating histories of fire, the fossil fuel industry, and climate science. He also explores 21st-century wildfiresโ€“ why they are hotter, more aggressive, and more destructive than anything weโ€™ve seen before. Whether youโ€™re interested in the science of fire and forest health, the fascinating relationship between humans and fire, or youโ€™re just looking for a book that you wonโ€™t be able to put down, I give Fire Weather my highest endorsement.

Wildfires are obviously becoming more and more intense and destructive here in the West, so I was excited to chat with John and dig deeper into the history of fire and the outlook for the future. We discussed why he decided to devote many years to writing about this particular wildfire, and how the bookโ€™s ingenious structure came to him in a dream. We talk about the similarities between living beings and fire, a fascinating idea known as the Lucretius Problem, some of the storyโ€™s larger-than-life characters, Johnโ€™s long-term goals for the book, some of his favorite books, and much, much more.

A huge thanks to John for writing such an impactful book and for taking the time to chat with me. I encourage you to pick up a copy of Fire Weather as soon as you can, but in the meantime, enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with John Vaillant.

Header photo: Chris Schwarz / Government of Alberta / Reuters; Headshot: John Sinal


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – When John realized he wanted to write about fire
  • 11:15 – The surprising significance of dreams in Johnโ€™s writing
  • 14:15 – How John organizes the information in his head so he can write
  • 19:45 – A brief note on pacing, and the similarities between living beings and fire
  • 30:45 – The Lucretius Problem
  • 35:45 – How John finds the characters for his book
  • 44:15 – How John handles writing about someone in a less-than-flattering light
  • 52:00 – Johnโ€™s goals for his book, Fire Weather
  • 57:30 – Johnโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:02:15 – Johnโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”

Dr. Sara Dant

Dr. Sara Dant is a Brady Presidential Distinguished Professor of history at Weber State University, and sheโ€™s the author of one of my most-often recommended books, Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. She is also one of the featured historians in Ken Burnsโ€™ newest documentary, The American Buffalo, which you can watch for free on the PBS website. Saraโ€™s work focuses on environmental politics in the United States with a particular emphasis on the creation and development of consensus and bipartisanism, and she is especially skilled at presenting complex, sometimes controversial topics in an engaging and fun-to-learn manner.

In June of 2023, Sara updated and republished her book Losing Edenโ€“ she added some chapters, revised some of the content, and added lots of maps, photos, and additional resources. She somehow managed to make one of my favorite books even better. For anyone who is looking for a thorough yet fun-to-read overview of this complex region known as the American West, I canโ€™t recommend it enough. From the migration of the first humans into North America to modern-day controversies around energy development, the book provides a solid foundation and acts as a launching point to dig into whatever specific time period you may find interesting.

Longtime listeners will remember my first conversation with Sara back in 2018, in which we discussed the early phases of North American environmental history, the tragedy of the commons, conservation vs preservation, and more. In this conversation, we focus on mostly recent environmental history, including the historic environmental legislation of the 1960s and 70s, legendary senator Frank Church, and the backlash to environmental regulation that led to movements such as the Sagebrush Rebellion. We also discuss Saraโ€™s perspective-shifting Alaska adventure, the value of wild places, her experience working with Ken Burns, book recommendations, and much, much more.

I always enjoy my visits with Sara, and I canโ€™t thank her enough for how generous she is with sharing her time, wisdom, and expertise. Iโ€™d encourage you to pick up a copy of the new Losing Eden, but in the meantime, enjoy this conversation with Dr. Sara Dant.

Photos courtesy of Sara Dant.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Why Sara decided to republish Losing Eden
  • 7:00 – The guiding idea of “At what cost?”
  • 10:00 – The myth of “right or wrong,” “good or bad”
  • 16:15 – Using history to understand our current political situation
  • 19:30 – Optimistic examples of positive political environmental bipartisanship
  • 23:30 – The legendary Idaho senator, Frank Church
  • 28:00 – James Watt and the backlash to environmental regulation
  • 34:00 – Divisiveness as a power-grabbing tool
  • 43:00 – Sara’s 2019 life-changing trip to Alaska
  • 46:30 – What is the value of wild places?
  • 54:15 – Participating in the new Ken Burns documentary
  • 56:30 – Something new that Sara has recently learned
  • 1:02:30 – Book recommendations and further reading
  • 1:10:30 – Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond

Corissa Busse

Corissa Busse is the Buffalo Restoration Program Manager for The Nature Conservancy, where she oversees TNCโ€™s work to advance Tribal-led efforts to restore buffalo, grasslands, and communities at scale. Based in Rapid City, South Dakota, Corissa and her team at TNC partner with organizations including the InterTribal Buffalo Council and the Tanka Fund to bring buffalo back to tribal lands, which not only contributes to healthier, more resilient landscapes, but helps to heal and restore a web of natural relationships that has been broken for hundreds of years.

TNC has been working with buffalo for many decades now, and it owns herds at numerous TNC preserves across the United States. Each year, those herds produce approximately 1,500 buffalo that are in need of new homes, so TNC has begun working with Tribal nations to transfer these buffalo from the TNC preserves onto Native lands. But transferring the animals from one place to another is relatively simpleโ€“ itโ€™s the trust-building, infrastructure development, and long-term, collaborative vision that requires strong relationships and outside-the-box thinking. As youโ€™ll hear in this conversation, itโ€™s a complex and important project with amazing potential.

Iโ€™ve always loved learning about buffalo, and given the recent release of Ken Burnsโ€™ newest documentary on this very subject, I was extra excited to chat with Corissa. We started out with the most basic question of allโ€“ โ€œShould we call them bison or buffalo?โ€– and then moved into the more complex topics. We discussed when and why TNC initially became interested in buffalo, TNCโ€™s history of working with Tribal partners, the challenges of overcoming historical realities, the potential for tension between cattle and buffalo producers, specific success stories from TNCโ€™s buffalo restoration work, the all-important role of strong relationships, resources to learn more about buffalo, and Corissa offers some excellent book recommendations.

I greatly appreciate Corissa taking the time out of her busy schedule to educate me on the finer details of buffalo as well as the large-scale vision for TNCโ€™s work. I learned a lot from this conversation, and I know you will too.  Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy.

Header photo by John Fielder courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, headshot courtesy of Corissa Busse


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Is it buffalo or bison?
  • 6:30 – A brief history of buffalo in the US
  • 10:30 – Books and resources that have helped Corissa learn more about the history of buffalo 
  • 13:45 – TNCโ€™s interest in buffalo
  • 17:00 – TNCโ€™s history of relationship-building with Tribal nation partners
  • 22:15 – How buffalo from TNCโ€™s herds are transferred to other partners
  • 23:30 – Exploring the tension between cattle and buffalo businesses
  • 27:15 – Examples of the success of Corissaโ€™s program
  • 31:15 – Measuring success in this work
  • 35:00 – The challenges in this work that Corissa worries about
  • 39:15 – The market for buffalo
  • 42:15 – How Corissa got into work with buffalo
  • 48:00 – The importance of relationships to Corissaโ€™s work
  • 52:30 – Corissaโ€™s book recommendations
  • 56:00 – Ways you can support Corissaโ€™s work, and Corissaโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagoniaโ€™s First Fifty Years

Vincent Stanley`

Vincent Stanley is the Director of Philosophy at Patagonia, and he holds the honor of being the companyโ€™s longest-serving employee. He is also an author, poet, and a resident fellow at the Yale Center for Business and the Environment. His most recent book, which he co-authored with Patagoniaโ€™s founder Yvon Chouinard, is titled The Future of the Responsible Company: What Weโ€™ve Learned from Patagoniaโ€™s First 50 Years

The book recounts Patagoniaโ€™s evolution from its humble beginnings as a small offshoot of Chouinard Equipment for Alpinists to becoming the worldโ€™s premiere outdoor apparel brand into its current role of serving as a blueprint for how business can be a force for good in the world. In less than 200 pages, Vincent delves into Patagoniaโ€™s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, and he explains Patagoniaโ€™s never-ending quest to become more responsible, more thoughtful, and more effective in achieving its mission of โ€œsaving our home planet.โ€

My first real exposure to Patagoniaโ€™s business model was when I was a student in graduate school, earning my MBA. I read Yvonโ€™s book Let My People Go Surfing, and realized that many of the business lessons and philosophies from Patagonia stood in stark contrast to those of mega-corporations. Patagoniaโ€™s approach opened my mind to a different way of thinking about business, one that led me to follow a much different path than Iโ€™d planned when I initially showed up at grad school.  So it was a real honor to have the conversation with Vincent and dig even deeper into the philosophies, ideals, and tactics that have made Patagonia such a legendary enigma in the world of big-time businessโ€“ and a role model for me and countless other business owners.

Vincent and I connected virtuallyโ€“ he was in Maine, I was in Coloradoโ€“ and we talked about all aspects of the book, as well as his long and storied history at Patagonia. You can check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, and I would highly recommend you pick up a copy of The Future of the Responsible Companyโ€“ itโ€™s chock full of actionable, applicable wisdom that anyone with a job would benefit from knowing.

Thanks to Vincent for taking the time to chat, thanks to you for listening, and I hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Patagonia


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – How Vincent became involved in Patagonia
  • 7:00 – Why Vincent and Yvon decided to update The Responsible Company, and a history of changes at Patagonia
  • 24:00 – When Vincent realized there was interest in and demand for the business model and values of Patagonia
  • 28:00 – Differentiating between โ€œresponsibleโ€ and โ€œsustainableโ€
  • 31:00 – How Vincent and Patagonia approach the work of marketing
  • 34:30 – The unconventional business performance indicators and evaluations that Patagonia employs
  • 37:15 – Why books are important in Vincent and Patagoniaโ€™s work
  • 41:15 – Who and what gives Vincent hope for the future
  • 44:15 – Reconciling the guilt of โ€œmessing upโ€
  • 50:15 – Vincentโ€™s book recommendations
  • 53:00 – Vincentโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”

Rebecca Clarren
(photo credit: Shelby Brakken)

Rebecca Clarren is an award-winning journalist who has been writing about the American West for more than twenty years. Her most recent book is titled The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance. The book is a powerful, nuanced, and deeply personal exploration of her ancestors fleeing antisemitism in Russia and immigrating to the South Dakota prairie at the turn of the 20th century. I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of the book, and I absolutely loved it. Rebecca seamlessly weaves together heavily researched US and Native American history with a vulnerable, clear-eyed examination of her familyโ€™s legacy. The result is an engaging story that not only helped me better understand the past, but provided a blueprint for how we can begin to make amends and move forward, both individually and as a nation.

In The Cost of Free Land, Rebecca grapples with the complicated ripple effects of her family settling on the Great Plainsโ€“ the free land that they received from the US government allowed them to establish a foothold in America, and over time, they found relative stability, especially when compared to their chaotic lives in Russia. But her familyโ€™s stability and eventual success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Contrasting her familyโ€™s experience with that of the Lakota makes this story all the more powerful, and speaks volumes about Rebeccsโ€™s skill as a writer and journalist. Again, I loved the book.

Rebecca and I connected the day before the book was published, and we had a wonderful conversation. We started by discussing why she decided to write such a deeply personal story, and how that differs from most of her previous journalistic endeavors. She provides a brief overview of the Lakota people and the laundry list of injustices they faced during westward expansion. We discuss the complicated nature of land ownership on reservations, and how those complications continue even to this day. She explains how the USโ€™s treatment of Native American influenced Hitler and the Nazi Party, and how she personally processes her familyโ€™s role in Westward expansion by working with spiritual mentors and exploring her own Jewish faith. We also talk about her career as a journalist, how motherhood has changed her, the challenge of writing, and she has lots of great book recommendations.

Thanks to Rebecca for writing such an important and eye-opening book, and thank you for listening.  Hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Rebecca Clarren and Viking Books.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – When Rebecca decided to write โ€œThe Cost of Free Landโ€
  • 9:15 – Discussing the vulnerable process of capturing not just Rebeccaโ€™s story, but her entire familyโ€™s story and how it ties in with American histories of stolen land
  • 18:15 – Discussing empathy in the difficult stories of Rebeccaโ€™s book
  • 21:30 – A brief history of the Lakota and the injustices they faced during westward expansion
  • 27:00 – Discussing the complicated nature of land ownership on Indigenous reservations, and how the US Government still influences land decisions on reservations
  • 30:45 – Discussing the historical implications of US land theft from Indigenous peoples, including how it influenced the actions of the Nazis during the Holocaust
  • 33:15 – The Six Steps of Repentance and how Rebecca processes the violent past of the US and how she benefited from itย ย 
  • 40:45 – The biggest surprise about Rebeccaโ€™s family that she learned in writing this book
  • 43:15 – Surprises in Rebeccaโ€™s research about the Lakota
  • 48:00 – Where Rebecca thinks the world of journalism is going
  • 51:15 – Rebeccaโ€™s career trajectory
  • 55:15 – How having kids impacted Rebeccaโ€™s approach to work
  • 58:30 – The difficulty of writing
  • 59:30 – Rebeccaโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:05:45 – Rebeccaโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work

Nick Offerman

Nick Offerman is an actor, author, humorist, and woodworker who is best known for playing the legendary character Ron Swanson on NBCโ€™s Parks and Recreation. But his success as an actor is just the tip of the icebergโ€“ heโ€™s written five New York Times bestselling books, is the narrator of three of Wendell Berryโ€™s audiobooks, and owns and operates Offerman Woodshop, where he and a small collective of woodworkers handcraft everything from spoons to furniture to canoes. And as many of you know, Nick is a staunch advocate for conservation, responsible land stewardship, and sustainable agriculture.

Nickโ€™s most recent book is titled Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside, and itโ€™s an excellent, thought-provoking read. It follows Nick on a series of adventures through the American West and English countrysideโ€“ adventures driven by his desire to better understand conservation, recreation, and humansโ€™ connection to the land and wild places. Along the way, he explores everything from the legacies of John Muir and Aldo Leopold to regenerative agriculture, without shying away from tough, complex topics, such as industrial farming and the conservation movementโ€™s impact on Indigenous cultures. The book also hits on so many underlying ideas that are often explored here on Mountain & Prairie, including nuance, empathy, compassion, curiosity, and doing work that makes the world a better place. I loved the book, and I highly recommend it.

Nick & Ed at Offerman Woodshop

I met up with Nick in Los Angeles at Offerman Woodshop, and we had a fun, inspiring, and at times hilarious conversation about everything from Aldo Leopoldโ€™s Land Ethic to Nick’s work as a โ€œtraveling clown.โ€ (His words, not mine!) We started out by discussing the life-changing moment when a friend handed him a Wendell Berry book, and how Wendellโ€™s writings and philosophy continue to be one of Nickโ€™s most important sources of inspiration and instruction to this day. We discuss why hard work and being of service to others are so deeply embedded in Nickโ€™s DNA, and the critical role that artists can play in solving societal challenges. We talk about authenticity, the importance of being even-keeled, the need for nuance and open-mindedness, the skill of self-deprecation, enjoying the process of creating, not passing judgment, and much, much more.

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play was just released in paperback, so follow the links in the episode notes to pick up a copy. If youโ€™re a longtime listener, I know youโ€™ll love it. There are also links to Offerman Woodshop, Nickโ€™s touring schedule, and all of his other books, so click through and check it all out.

A thousand thanks to Nick for inviting me to his shop for such an amazing conversation, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo of Nick in Glacier National Park by George Saunders, headshot by Taylor Miller.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – A self-deprecation showdown
  • 5:30 – The impact of Wendell Berry on Nickโ€™s life
  • 10:15 – Of Nickโ€™s family and upbringing, and tying back to Wendell Berry
  • 15:15 – Nick telling the story of when he โ€œmade it,โ€ and how that impacted his work ethic
  • 18:30 – Of the ethos of taking the time to do hard things
  • 23:15 – The impact of a conversation between Nick and Wendell Berry
  • 29:00 – More about Nickโ€™s book, Where the Deer and the Antelope Play
  • 42:15 – How Nick discusses serious topics with a lighthearted demeanor
  • 47:30 – How Aldo Leopold influenced Nick
  • 51:45 – A great story about Wendell Berry and the need for artists
  • 55:15 – How and when Nick developed his authenticity 
  • 1:02:00 – The two jokes Nick has written in his career
  • 1:05:45 – What good work looks like
  • 1:18:00 – Discussing how to pronounce words and the importance of not passing judgment
  • 1:23:15 – Coming back to โ€œgood workโ€

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea

Matt Cahill

Matt Cahill is the Sagebrush Sea Program Director for the Nature Conservancy. Based out of Bend, Oregon, Matt leads all of TNCโ€™s critical work restoring, managing, and protecting sagebrush habitat across six western states. This is a huge and complex effortโ€“ it combines protection and policy work with ground-breaking restoration advances, public and industry partnerships, and local community projects. But as youโ€™ll hear in this conversation, Matt is optimistically leaning into the challenge and making great strides to protect this uniquely Western ecosystem.

To give you some context into the vastness of North Americaโ€™s sagebrush ecosystem, it spans 150 million acres and is home to 350 rare, threatened, and endangered species. Since 1998, 14 million acres of sagebrush ecosystems have been lost, and currently, weโ€™re losing approximately one million acres to invasive species, catastrophic wildfires, development, improper grazing, and climate change. 70% of the Sagebrush Sea is found on public lands, so efforts to protect, manage, and restore the ecosystem are dependent on creative, action-oriented public-private partnerships. Again, Matt is leading a huge and complex effort!

In this episode, we start our conversation by discussing why the Sagebrush Sea is important, and why even people who live far from the ecosystem should care about it. We discuss the history of the threats to sagebrush, and we also do a deep dive into the specific threat of cheatgrassโ€“ a true scourge on the landscapes of the West. We discuss the ecology of sagebrush, how TNC measures success when it comes to protecting such a fragile ecosystem, and the importance of partnering with ranchers. We talk about the efficacy of for-profit approaches to restoration, collaboration with government agencies, and specific cutting-edge approaches to restoration. Matt also explains his career trajectory that led him from the East Coast to becoming obsessed with sagebrush, and he offers several great book recommendations.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, including a few videos and writings by Matt that will provide even more context into this nuanced issue. Thanks to Matt and his team for all of their hard work, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download onย Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Description of the Sagebrush Sea
  • 7:45 – Why sagebrush matters
  • 10:30 – The state of the Sagebrush Sea and how it got there
  • 15:15 – Cheatgrassโ€™s impact on the Sagebrush Sea
  • 23:30 – TNCโ€™s Sagebrush Sea program
  • 26:45 – Exploring the restoration aspect of Mattโ€™s work
  • 33:15 – The restoration timeline for sagebrush regions
  • 35:30 – Measuring restoration success
  • 39:00 – The management portion of Mattโ€™s work
  • 41:30 – Mattโ€™s success stories of collaborating with ranchers
  • 46:00 – The land protection (acquisition, easement, etc.) portion of Mattโ€™s work
  • 49:15 – Evaluating the for-profit wing of conservation of sage grouse habitat
  • 43:15 – Discussing TNCโ€™s collaboration across its own programs as well as with government land managers
  • 57:00 – How Matt ended up an expert in sagebrush biomes when he grew up on the East Coast
  • 1:00:30 – Mattโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:04:00 – Mattโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

James Prosek – Art, Philosophy, & Our Natural World

James Prosek in Texas

James Prosek is an artist, writer, and naturalist whose work deeply examines our relationship with the natural world. Over the course of his career, heโ€™s focused his artistโ€™s eye and philosopherโ€™s mind on everything from trout to eels, from birds to ocean fishes. For the past two years, heโ€™s been focused on understanding and documenting the grasslands of Texas, and heโ€™s traveled the state examining the diverse plants and wildlife that call the prairie ecosystem home. Beginning on September 16, 2023, the results of his journey around Texas will be on display at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, in his new exhibition titled Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie.ย 

James was born in Connecticut and, as youโ€™ll hear in our conversation, much of his childhood was spent obsessed with birds, fish, and fishing. He attended Yale Univesity, where at age 19 he published his first book titled Trout: An Illustrated History, which featured seventy of his watercolor paintings of the trout of North America. From there, his curiosity about the natural world continued to intensify, as evidenced by his prolific production of art and writing for many renowned museums and publications. He has also lent his talents to a variety of conservation efforts, most notably his partnership with Yvon Chionard to protect coldwater fisheries habitat. 

James and I share many mutual friends and interests, so it was wonderful to connect with him for this conversation. Itโ€™ll only take you a few minutes of listening to realize that James is a deep thinker whose art is the manifestation of his extremely nuanced and fascinating ideas and philosophies. We started out talking about his first memory of interacting with nature, and how he has used drawing and journaling as tools to better understand plants, animals, and concepts. We discuss how the idea of naming plants and animals is an imperfect science, how drawing connects us with our evolutionary past, how philosophy and philosophical thinking inform all of his art, grasslands in Texas, the importance of understanding and respecting place, how James snaps out of creative slumps, his writing process, and he offers plenty of book recommendations. 

As is the case with so many of my guests, I couldโ€™ve talked to James for many more hours. So thankfully, this conversation is part one of what will be a two-episode series with James. The second episode will be a live event at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, on Thursday, January 11, 2024. Weโ€™ll be continuing this conversation, and weโ€™ll be focusing in more detail on his exploration of the Texas Prairie and his new exhibition, Trespassers. Weโ€™ll be releasing more information about this event soon, but Iโ€™d love to see some of you at the event in Fort Worth on January 11.

A huge thank you to James for his inspiring art, to the Amon Carter Museum for the opportunity to chat with James, and to all of you for listening. Enjoy!

Two pieces from the new exhibition, “Trespassers”

Photos courtesy of James Prosek and the Amon Carter Museum of American Art.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – Jamesโ€™ first memory of interacting with nature
  • 7:00 – When journaling and drawing became standard practices for James
  • 10:15 – Jamesโ€™ view on drawing and its connection to our evolutionary past as huntersย 
  • 15:15 – How drawing fish made James a better angler
  • 20:45 – How names affect our thinking about other organisms
  • 24:15 – The art that James engaged in parallel to fishing
  • 28:00 – How James sharpens his philosophyย 
  • 39:45 – Jamesโ€™ writing process
  • 43:00 – How James establishes connections with places
  • 1:00:15 – Whether or not James has gone through an artistic slump
  • 1:10:00 – Jamesโ€™ parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work

Anna Borgman
Photo by Chloe Nostrant

Anna Borgman is a Montana-based butcher, chef, and writer whose work focuses on helping people better understand and appreciate the origins of their food. Whether writing an article for Steven Rinellaโ€™s MeatEater or helping to field harvest and process a bison, Anna has a gift for helping curious, conscientious people become more educated about the impacts of their food choices. And as youโ€™ll hear in this conversation, her enthusiasm and authenticity are infectiousโ€“ even after more than an hour of chatting, I felt we only scratched the surface.

Anna grew up in Oregon, and thanks to participation in 4H, she was involved with animals and livestock from an early age. During her teenage years, skiing became her primary passion, and she devoted much of her post-college life to spending as many days as possible in the mountains, oftentimes working multiple jobs to make ends meet. Eventually, through a serendipitous chain of events that we discuss, she found her way into culinary school, which was her gateway into the world of meat and butchery. Through all the various stages of Annaโ€™s career, sheโ€™s brought intense devotionโ€“ possibly even obsessionโ€“ to her work, which has resulted in a fascinating life trajectory that is both inspiring and instructive.

Anna and I share so many mutual friends and Iโ€™ve been hearing about her and her work for many years, so I was thrilled to have her finally join me for a conversation. We started out discussing her childhood in Oregon and how skiing became her primary focus for so many years. We discuss some of her adventurous international travel experiences, and how those places and the characters she met led her into the world of food. We discuss the upsides of obsession, advice for getting out of ruts, the value of curiosity, and the importance of experiencing other cultures. She also talks in detail about the realities of slaughtering livestock, why she feels such a connection to butchery, her favorite books, and much more.

Even though this was my first time meeting Anna, I felt like I was chatting with an old friend. Iโ€™m super-inspired by all of her work, but even more inspired by the focus and passion she brings to everything she does. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Anna Borgman and Chloe Nostrant


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – What Anna wanted to be when she grew up
  • 7:30 – When Anna realized that most livestock she raised would led to slaughter 
  • 10:00 – Annaโ€™s interest in skiing and how it led her to work with a French cook in Australia and adventures in Spain
  • 16:30 – Annaโ€™s experience in culinary school
  • 20:15 – Why so many interesting people have pastry making on their resume
  • 22:15 – When Anna became interested in butchery, and whether or not working long days in culinary school made Anna feel more content
  • 25:45 – The importance of having an obsession
  • 28:45 – Annaโ€™s advice for getting out of a rut 
  • 32:00 – The scariest things that have happened to Anna during international travel, as well as the lessons travel taught her
  • 38:30 – When Anna went all in on butchery
  • 43:00 – The process of slaughtering and butchering
  • 46:30 – Annaโ€™s first slaughter
  • 51:45 – Lessons from butchery
  • 57:00 – The value of curiosity 
  • 59:45 – Discussing Forage Fed
  • 1:03:45 – Annaโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:09:00 – Annaโ€™s guilty pleasures (or lack thereof)
  • 1:14:00 – Annaโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Carrie Segil & Duncan Gilchrist – Catalyzing Conservation in Colorado and Beyond

Carrie Segil

Carrie Segil is the People and Culture Manager at The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and Duncan Gilchrist is a Climate and Natural Resources Policy Associate at The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. Both Carrie and Duncan are deeply involved with TNC Coloradoโ€™s Catalyst Fund, a cutting-edge conservation funding initiative that supports forward-looking projects that enable innovation and rapid learning, both to test new ideas and to build greater capacity for innovation over the long term.

One of the Catalyst Fundโ€™s most notable projects involves agrivoltaics, which is the simultaneous use of land for both solar energy production and agriculture. The project is called the Agrivoltaics Retrofit Partnership, and itโ€™s a Boulder-based partnership between TNC, Jackโ€™s Solar Garden, Drylands Agroecology Research, Boulder Housing Partners, and a conservation-justice / community outreach partner called FLOWS. The project aims to achieve multiple conservation and community objectives, including restoring degraded land, producing perennial plants with medicinal, economic, and indigenous cultural value, and providing a host of benefits to local marginalized community membersโ€“ benefits that we discuss in this episode.

Duncan Gilchrist

In this episode, we talk in detail about this specific agrivoltaics project, as well as some of the other innovative projects that are being pushed forward thanks to support from the Catalyst Fund. We discussed how and why TNC Colorado decided to create the Catalyst Fund in the first place, and the need to push boundaries and take risks in the conservation space. Carrie offers insights into specific Catalyst projects, such as virtual fencing for bison, and Duncan discusses all the details about this agrivoltaics projectโ€“ including the genesis of the idea, the challenges of the projects, and why it has proven to be so successful and replicable. We also discuss how policy on the state and federal level is creating more opportunities for agrivoltaics, why it garners bipartisan support, and lessons learned from all of the Catalyst Fund projects.

I was so impressed with Carrie and Duncanโ€™s enthusiasm, professionalism, and commitment to innovation, and I learned so much from this conversation. Be sure to check out the episode notes to learn more about everything we discussed, and please share this episode with any friends or colleagues who might find it valuable.  Thanks so much for listening, I hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – An overview of the Catalyst Fund
  • 7:00 – Talking to funders about the Catalyst Fund
  • 8:45 – How TNC evaluates what it is looking for regarding the Catalyst Fund
  • 10:30 – Duncanโ€™s project
  • 12:45 – Duncanโ€™s job before his agrivoltaics project
  • 14:45 – More on Duncanโ€™s project and his site
  • 19:00 – About Boulder Housing Partners, and how they reacted to Duncanโ€™s idea
  • 20:30 – How Duncan worked to turn the rocky land he was working into agricultural land
  • 22:30 – The outlook for Duncanโ€™s project, and how it stacks up against his expectations
  • 25:00 – The federal and state (CO) push for more projects like Duncanโ€™s
  • 28:00 – Why agrivoltaics seems to garner bipartisan support
  • 29:30 – Why everyone isnโ€™t doing agrivoltaics 
  • 31:30 – The potential for grazing under agrivoltaics
  • 32:30 – Other synergies between solar energy and agriculture
  • 33:30 – Carrieโ€™s outlook on Duncanโ€™s project, and some other projects funded by the Catalyst Fund
  • 36:45 – What itโ€™s like for TNC to work with external partners
  • 37:45 – Other projects funded through the Catalyst Funds
  • 40:00 – Big lessons from the Catalyst Fund project
  • 45:00 – The power of advocating for policy
  • 47:15 – Where the Catalyst Fund is going
  • 51:00 – Carrie and Duncanโ€™s book recommendations
  • 53:45 – Closing thoughts

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival

David James Duncan is one of those Western literary legends who needs no introduction to Mountain & Prairie listeners. But for those of you who may be new to the podcast or to Western literature, David is a renowned Montana novelist, activist, and flyfisherman. Heโ€™s the author of The River Why and The Brothers K, and his newest novel Sun House hits shelves today. David is also the author of countless nonfiction essays, many of which have been compiled in books such as My Story as Told by Water, River Teeth, and God Laughs & Plays.

This episode was recorded live at the first-annual Old Salt Festival, which was held on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. The festival was a three-day celebration of land stewardship and wild places, and it featured live music, wood-fired cooking, and discussions about conservation, literature, and the power of place. Given that so much of Davidโ€™s work as an author and activist is heavily influenced by his love of land, water, and wildlife, he brought a wise and thoughtful perspective to the Festivalโ€“ a perspective that was greatly appreciated by everyone in attendance.

This episode is split into two partsโ€“ first is our on-stage conversation, which took place on Saturday morning, followed by two readings from his new novel Sun House, which took place that evening. In our conversation, I focused in on Davidโ€™s life as a contemplative. We talk about his upbringing in the Pacific Northwest and his eventual move to Montana, which is the place he now considers his home. We discuss the importance of being able to hold two competing ideas in your mind at once, why he felt called to become an activist, why deep friendships are such an important part of his life, and the women who have served as mentors to him. We also talk about his 16-year process of writing Sun House, the difference between creating ideas versus receiving them, what gives David hope for the future, and much more.  

The second part of the episode features two readings from Sun House, both of which were perfectly aligned with the spirit and mood of the Old Salt Festival. From where I was sitting in the crowd, I saw many people tearing up near the end of Davidโ€™s reading, so I hope the power of his words and the place come through in this audio. It was an extremely special experience that I will not soon forget.

A huge thank you to David for his kindness, generosity, and for all of his contributions to the culture and conservation of the West. Thank you to the Old Salt Festival for giving me this opportunity to talk with David. And thank you for listening.

If you havenโ€™t already, Iโ€™d encourage you to pick up a copy of Sun Houseโ€“ itโ€™s available online or in your favorite local bookstore right now!

My advanced copy of David’s new, beautifully epic novel, Sun House

All photos by Anthony Pavkovich


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:30 – Intros
  • 7:30 – Discussing if Montana is home to David
  • 10:30 – How David came to write about Montana
  • 12:30 – How to hold two ideas in your head (the brutal US past and the landscape beauty we see presently)
  • 14:55 – Davidโ€™s transition from fiction to nonfiction writing
  • 19:30 – Advice on how to take a stand
  • 21:45 – Davidโ€™s friends
  • 26:30 – Davidโ€™s women mentors
  • 30:30 – Writing Sun House
  • 34:30 – The benefits and challenges of writing something so emotional as Sun House
  • 38:00 – Whether or not David is creating ideas or receiving them while writing
  • 41:30 – What makes David feel good about the future
  • 43:30 – Reading 1
  • 58:15 – Reading 2

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Erik Glenn Returns – Leadership, Innovation, & Commitment to Conservation

Erik Glenn

This is the 200th episode of Mountain & Prairie, so I decided to celebrate the milestone by bringing back the first-ever M&P guest, my good friend Erik Glenn. Erik is the Executive Director of the Colorado Cattlemenโ€™s Agricultural Land Trust, a statewide conservation organization that protects Colorado’s agricultural land, heritage, and families for future generations by conserving working rural landscapes. Erik is also the President of the Partnership of Rangeland Trusts, a collection of nine ag-based, western land trusts who work together to โ€œadvocate for the conservation of working lands and western heritage for the benefit and wellbeing of future generations.โ€

When Erik and I spoke for episode number one all the way back in the spring of 2016, he was only about a year into his role as Executive Director. At that point, the organization had conserved just over 465,000 acres of land in Colorado. Fast forward seven and a half years to today, Erik and his team have added an additional 300,000 acres of conserved land, bringing the total to more than 765,000 acres. But most importantly, CCALT has served as a loyal and trusted partner for more than 400 agricultural families who are deeply committed to conserving Coloradoโ€™s western heritage and working landscapes.

I consider Erik a great friend and a wise mentor, and if not for his kindness, encouragement, and counsel, I doubt there would be a Mountain & Prairie, nor would I have ever worked in the conservation world. We sat down at his office in Lakewood and caught up on everything, including: how Erik spurs innovation without losing sight of the basics of land conservation; his thoughts on building culture and retaining the best team members; balancing his own intense work ethic with his desire set reasonable-yet-high expectations for his team; how having kids has changed him; the growth of PORT; his mentors; the evolution of the perception of conservation easements in the ag community; threats and opportunities; book recommendations; and much more.

A big thanks to Erik for letting me use him as a guinea pig for the first episode back in 2016, and for his willingness to join me again for episode 200. But more importantly, thanks to Erik for his leadership and commitment to conservation in Colorado, the West, and beyond. Hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of CCALT.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – What the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust is
  • 11:00 – How Erik balances innovation with the basics of conservation
  • 15:30 – How Erik actually implements a culture in the workplace
  • 23:30 – How Erik balances his work ethic with the desire to not set unreasonable work expectations for his team
  • 29:30 – How having kids impacted Erik
  • 35:45 – Discussing PORT
  • 46:00 – Discussing whether or not good conservation tools have become good business tools for land owners 
  • 50:00 – Erikโ€™s mentors
  • 58:00 – The biggest threat and opportunity facing conservation
  • 1:10:30 – Erikโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:13:30 – Erikโ€™s parting words

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

SHED SESSION: Everything I Know About Landing a Job in the Conservation World

For many years now, listeners have been emailing me with lots of different versions of the same basic question:

โ€œHow do I get a job in the conservation world?โ€ 

Some of the inquiries come from college students or young professionals, while others come from folks who are deep into a specific career path but want to make a change. Iโ€™m always happy to receive these messages, and Iโ€™m flattered that anyone would think I have valuable advice to offer.

Unfortunately, Iโ€™ve never been able to provide what I believe to be a suitable answer, mainly because I could not do the question justice within the constraints of email or social media. And over the last few years, the volume of messages has reached a point that I simply cannot keep up with it allโ€“ so if youโ€™ve reached out and I have not responded, my sincere apologies.

For (at least) the past three years, Iโ€™ve been considering answering this question in podcast form, thinking the episode could serve as a detailed resource for anyone who asked the questionโ€ฆ and for those who will in the future. But Iโ€™ve procrastinated or rationalized reasons not to, mainly because I felt extremely uncomfortable about sitting by myself, blabbing my thoughts and ideas into a microphone. I never want to come off as a know-it-all or some kind of wannabe internet guru.

But the volume of the incoming messages kept increasing, so I finally decided to put my ego and self-consciousness aside and just answer the question in podcast form.

I wrote an eight-page outline that laid out everything I know about finding a job in the conservation world, then I sat down in The Shed and let โ€˜er rip. The result is a ridiculously long soliloquy in which I put it all out there. Iโ€™m calling it a Shed Session.

Please keep in mind that this episode is simply a recounting of my own personal and professional experienceโ€“ itโ€™s not some kind of one-size-fits-all โ€œhackโ€ that will lead you directly to your dream job. Iโ€™ve long said that I am the last person anyone should be asking for career advice, and there are certainly tons of people who are much more experienced and accomplished in conservation than I am.

But for those of you who did ask, this episode is for you. I lay it all out, including: my specific career path; my specific job in the conservation field; skills that are needed in the conservation sector; why relationship building is the most important skill; how I built a deep and broad network in Colorado despite only knowing one person when I moved here in 2010; why I think networks are the most valuable assets, what I looked for when I was hiring for conservation roles; what you should look for (and avoid) in conservation organizations; pros and cons of working in non-profit conservation, book recommendations, and more. Links to everything are in the episode notes.

Again, all of this is just my personal experience and my possibly weird ideas about doing purpose-driven work. For those of you who have reached out, I hope this adds some value. For everyone else, weโ€™ll be back to the regularly scheduled interviews later this week.

Thanks for listening!


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


WATCH ON PATREON:


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:12 – Intro, Questions, and Goals
  • 10:20 – Disclaimers
  • 13:58 – Discussion outline
  • 15:45 – My career path
  • 19:53 – My specific job in conservation
  • 22:30 – How I built a network from scratch
  • 40:01 – Advice on how to build a network
  • 48:55 – What I looked for when I was hiring
  • 54:39 – What you should look for in a conservation organization
  • 1:05:51 – Book Recommendations
  • 1:15:05 – Pros and cons
  • 1:22:22 – Closing thoughts

Information Referenced:



To check out dozens of past episodes featuring conservationists from around the West, visit the podcast page and choose “conservationists” from the dropdown menu!

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom

Vice Chairman Lorelei Cloud
Photo: Jeremy Wade Shockley

Lorelei Cloud is a member of the Southern Ute Indian Tribe and currently serves as Vice Chairman of the Southern Ute Indian Tribal Council. Loreleiโ€™s commitment to conservation, leadership development, and Ute language, traditions, and culture is evident by the staggering number of leadership roles she holdsโ€“ she is Co-Chairman of the Indigenous Womenโ€™s Leadership Network, a Board Trustee for the Nature Conservancy, and serves on the Colorado River Basinโ€™s Water & Tribes Initiative. Earlier this year, she was appointed by the Governor of Colorado to serve on the Colorado Water Conservation Board (“CWCB”), making her the first-ever Tribal member of the board.

Lorelei was born and raised on the Southern Ute Reservation, which is located in the far southwestern corner of Colorado. From the very beginning, water has played a central role in Loreleiโ€™s lifeโ€“ much of her childhood was spent without running water and access to drinking water continues to be a challenge on the Reservation to this day. Much of Loreleiโ€™s early career was spent working in various businesses, including banking and energy, all while being a mother and raising four children. In 2015, she was elected to the Tribal Council, which began this new phase of her life and careerโ€“ a phase devoted to serving her Tribal Community, as well as the communities, landscapes, and natural resources of the American West.

Iโ€™ve been hearing such great things about Lorelei for years, so I was honored to have the opportunity to chat with her on the podcast. We enjoyed a wide-ranging conversation about her upbringing on the Southern Ute Reservation, the history of the Southern Ute Tribe, her recent appointment to the CWCB, why she decided to devote herself to public service, the goals of the Indigenous Womenโ€™s Leadership Network, her work with the Nature Conservancy, the need to elevate Tribal voices on issues of water and land conservation in the West and beyond, advice for aspiring leaders, her favorite books, ways the listeners can get involved and support the work of the Southern Ute Tribe, and much more.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything. A huge thanks to Lorelei for taking the time out of her busy schedule to talk with me and for her deep commitment to doing such impactful work in Colorado and beyond. Enjoy!

Header photo by Trennie Collins, Portrait by Jeremy Wade Shockley


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download onย Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Loreleiโ€™s youth on the Southern Ute Reservation
  • 6:15 – How Loreleiโ€™s family would get water
  • 8:15 – Loreleiโ€™s childhood personality, school years, and early jobs
  • 13:30 – Whether or not Lorelei wanted to stay on the reservation
  • 15:30 – A brief Ute history
  • 19:00 – How Loreleiโ€™s appointment as the first Indigenous representative on the CWCB
  • 22:15 – What the CWCB does
  • 27:30 – How Lorelei decided to pursue public service
  • 30:15 – About the Indigenous Womenโ€™s Leadership Network
  • 34:00 – Loreleiโ€™s advice for aspiring leaders
  • 36:15 – Loreleiโ€™s mentors
  • 40:30 – About Loreleiโ€™s role as Vice Chairman of the Southern Ute Tribe
  • 43:00 – How Lorelei became involved with TNC and how she evaluates whether or not to pursue a professional opportunity
  • 48:15 – Whether or not Deb Haaland has elevated Tribal voices through her work
  • 52:00 – Loreleiโ€™s book recommendations
  • 55:00 – How you can help Loreleiโ€™s work
  • 56:00 – Loreleiโ€™s words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Christy Sing Robertson – On Grit, Hard Work, & Going All In

Christy Sing Robertson
photo credit: Alexandra Rapadas Munger

Christy Sing Robertson is a hatmaker and the founder and owner of Sing Hat Company. Based in Jackson, Wyoming, Christy has evolved rather quickly from making a few hats for herself and several friends into becoming one of the most popular and sought-after hat makers in the West. Whether sheโ€™s hand-shaping palm leaf hats for hundreds of people at events such as last monthโ€™s Old Salt Festival or creating a custom felt hat for a 5th generation rancher or celebrity musician, Christyโ€™s humility, curiosity, and commitment to the craft have allowed her to stand out in the crowded field of custom hatmakers.

Christy was born and raised in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas, and she stayed there for the first half of her career, working as a high-performing salesperson in the insurance industry. But despite her success in the conventional and lucrative world of sales, she felt called to the West and decided to uproot her life and move to Jackson, Wyoming. Even though she moved to Jackson without knowing a soul, she managed to establish roots and build a fulfilling life centered around motherhood, hard work, and leading a thoughtful, intentional life. And along the way, just as she felt a calling to move to Wyoming, she felt called to make hatsโ€“ so she went all-in. Today, Christyโ€™s hatsโ€“ and her long list of customersโ€“ demonstrate the amazing success sheโ€™s achieved in a relatively short amount of time.

Iโ€™ve been following Christyโ€™s work for many years now, so I was thrilled to finally have a chance to chat with her on the podcast. Her story is amazingly inspiring and speaks to the importance of grit, risk-taking, working hard, humility, and trusting your gut. We covered a lot during our hour together, including: her upbringing in Arkansas and her success in the insurance business; the spiritual event that led her to move to Wyoming; how motherhood changed her; the focus and hustle required to make ends meet as a single mother; hunting big game for food; balancing the artistic side of hatmaking with the all-important need to earn a living; the increasing wealth inequality in Jackson; the importance of friendships with other artisans and makers; why imposter syndrome can be a good thing; techniques for keeping an even keel; favorite books; and much more.

If you havenโ€™t checked out Christyโ€™s website or followed her on social media, I recommend that you doโ€“ there are links in the episode notes to all of that and everything else we discussed. But in the meantime, I know youโ€™ll enjoy this inspiring and motivational conversation with Christy Sing Robertson.

Photos courtesy of Sing Hat Company, header photo by Jamie Johnson.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:30 – Christyโ€™s childhood
  • 9:00 – Christyโ€™s life post high school
  • 10:45 – When making things clothes came into Christyโ€™s life
  • 12:00 – How Christy came to the Rocky Mountains, and how it changed her
  • 23:00 – What Christyโ€™s work and life was like after moving to Wyoming
  • 25:15 – When hatmaking entered Christyโ€™s life
  • 27:30 – How Christyโ€™s life changed after she had kids
  • 32:00 – How Christy became self-sufficient in hunting
  • 35:30 – Back to hats 
  • 39:00 – Whether or not Christy ever reconsidered her decision to make hats
  • 40:55 – When Christy felt she was good at making hats
  • 42:45 – How relationship building impacted Christyโ€™s business
  • 44:15 – How it went when Christy went full into making hats for a living
  • 46:45 – How Christy manages the prices of Jackson, WY
  • 50:15 – How Christy keeps an even keel
  • 51:30 – How a community of makers has impacted Christyโ€™s journey and career
  • 55:15 – Reflecting on how Christy got where she is in her craft and career
  • 58:45 – Christyโ€™s advice for aspiring makers
  • 1:01:15 – Christyโ€™s vision for Sing Hats
  • 1:05:00 – Christyโ€™s book recommendations
  • 1:07:00 – Christyโ€™s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival

L-R: Ed, Cole Mannix, Kate Kavanaugh, Dan Miller, and Wyatt Nelson (Photo by Anthony Pavkovich)

This is a special live episode that was recorded in late June 2023 at the first-ever Old Salt Festival, which was held on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. The Old Salt Festival is a three-day celebration of ranching, land stewardship, and wild places that features live Western music, wood-fired cooking, products from some of the Westโ€™s most renowned artisans, readings and interviews with Western authors and poets, and in-depth discussions about conservation and land stewardship. The festival was a resounding success, so Iโ€™m thrilled to share one of the many conversations with you here.

The episode is a panel discussion titled Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain, featuring several of the Westโ€™s leading voices in sustainable meat production and regenerative agriculture. In order of their appearance in the episode, youโ€™ll hear from Cole Mannix, President of the Old Salt Co-op; Kate Kavanaugh, owner of Western Daughters Butcher Shoppe and host of the Mind, Body, and Soil Podcast; Dan Miller, Founder of Steward; and Wyatt Nelson, President of Wild West Local Foods. As youโ€™ll hear, each panelist is deeply immersed in a different aspect of the meat production supply chain, and each of them brings a unique and wise perspective to the challenges facing producers and small businesses involved in meat production.

Many of you may already know, but the Old Salt Festival is a part of the Old Salt Co-op, a new, purpose-driven company that โ€œprovides meat raised with integrity from Montana landscapes its customers know and care about.โ€ The Old Salt Co-op is working to rebuild the meat business in Montana, creating a sustainable business model that is beneficial to local ranchers, local consumers, and local economiesโ€“ all while responsibly and effectively stewarding the lands that support agriculture. Rebuilding Montanaโ€™s meat supply chain is no small feat, but with smart, purpose-driven people like Cole, Kate, Dan, and Wyatt working to find solutions, I think youโ€™ll be both inspired and encouraged.

To learn more about the Old Salt Co-op, you can go back to my first podcast conversion with Cole from February of 2023. And be on the lookout for another live Old Salt Festival episode, which Iโ€™ll be releasing on August 8, 2023โ€“ that one will feature a conversation with famed western author David James Duncan followed by a reading from his new novel Sun House.  

A huge thanks to Cole and the Old Salt team for inviting me to the Festival, and a huge thanks to the Mannix Family for sharing their stunning ranch with all of us. Thanks to Cole, Kate, Dan, and Wyatt for sharing their wisdom. And last but definitely not least, thanks to the one and only, always hilarious and energetic Bex Frucht for the amazing intro. Hope you enjoy.

Photos by Anthony Pavkovich for the Old Salt Festival


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:45 – Introductions
  • 6:15 – The challenge and opportunity that Cole saw, leading to the development of Old Salt Co-op
  • 9:00 – What Kate sees as major potential challenges for Old Salt Co-op going forward
  • 12:15 – What attracted Dan to finance regenerative agriculture, especially given that industryโ€™s tight margins
  • 15:00 – Wyattโ€™s introduction, as well as the roadblocks that Wyatt sees to a more resilient food system from the distribution side of things
  • 17:15 – How the panel members go about getting peopleโ€™s attention
  • 24:45 – The work Coleโ€™s family and neighbors have done to protect the local landscape, as well as trends in young people getting involved with agriculture
  • 32:15 – What Kate is seeing on the retail side of meat production, and how to address it
  • 38:15 – What Old Salt Co-op is working on right now
  • 41:15 – What we can do that would help build a resilient meat and food system

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health

Rob Addington

Rob Addington is the Director of the Forest and Fire Program with The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. He and his team are focused on increasing the pace and scale of forest restoration in Colorado to reduce hazardous fuels and promote landscape resilience to natural disturbances such as wildfire as well as climate change.

You donโ€™t have to live in the West to know that the region has been battling ongoing drought, historically large and intense wildfires, and various forms of insect-induced forest devastation. Over the past few years here in Colorado, weโ€™ve experienced some of the most destructive wildfires in recorded history, and the pine beetle infestation continues to be a source of serious and increasing concern. And Colorado is obviously not aloneโ€“ there are similar stories of struggling forests throughout all of the Western states.

While the current conditions may be dire, youโ€™ll be happy to know that Rob and his team at The Nature Conservancy are working extremely hard to find collaborative, creative, and effective solutions to the challenges facing our forests here in the West. By partnering with government agencies, Tribal nations, private landowners, various non-profits, and more, TNC has been leading and implementing some of the most innovative forest health work in the countryโ€“ work that is creating more resilient, healthy landscapes across hundreds of thousands of acres.

For all the listeners who have been asking for a wildfire and forest health-focused episode, this one is for you. I met up with Rob at the TNC office in Boulder, and he was kind enough to educate me on both the big picture and finer details of all things forest health. You can check out the notes for a full list of everything we discussed, but a few of the topics include: The infamous 2020 wildfire season and the outlook for 2023, the history of land management and how that has affected wildfires, pine beetles, wildfireโ€™s effects on water quality, how beavers can play a role in fire mitigation, some specific success stories, business solutions for forest health, the all-important focus on partnerships, post-fire land management strategies, good books, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode webpage for links to everything, including TNCโ€™s exciting new Western Division Forest and Fire Initiative.

A huge thanks to Rob for taking the time to answer all my questions and another huge thanks to TNC for leading all of this important work. I hope you enjoy!

Headshot courtesy of The Nature Conservancy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 โ€“ Discussing the fire season of 2020
  • 9:45 โ€“ The outlook for the fire season of 2023
  • 12:00 โ€“ Discussing the variability in Coloradoโ€™s recent fire seasons
  • 14:45 โ€“ The causes for Coloradoโ€™s changing fire seasons
  • 17:30 โ€“ Exploring, specifically, the role of historic land management and how it impacts fire behavior
  • 20:30 โ€“ Discussing pine beetles
  • 26:00 โ€“ How the forest regime progresses in beetle-killed stands without fire, and how changing fire behavior is impacting the forest regime
  • 32:00 โ€“ How fires impact water
  • 39:15 โ€“ Discussing potential solution strategies for Coloradoโ€™s fire situation
  • 42:00 โ€“ Discussing the importance of managing partnerships in this work
  • 44:45 โ€“ A specific, fire-related project that Rob is happy about
  • 47:15 โ€“ Exploring the potential of a for-profit business that is incentivized to thin out fire-prone forests
  • 50:30 โ€“ Beaversโ€™ role in wildfire prevention
  • 54:30 โ€“ Robโ€™s favorite period of history to read about
  • 56:30 โ€“ Management strategies for an area that has been wiped clean by fire
  • 1:00:30 โ€“ Robโ€™s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

David Gessner Returns – “A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World”

David and his furry friend in our podcast “studio”

David Gessner is no stranger to Mountain & Prairie listenersโ€“ heโ€™s joined me for many episodes and is the author of many of my favorite books, including All the Wild That Remains, Leave It As It Is, My Green Manifesto, and more. His newest book is A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World: Tales of Fire, Wind, and Water, which once again showcases Davidโ€™s unique ability to combine humor, travel, and memoir in service of connecting the reader with the natural world.

A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World chronicles Davidโ€™s journeys around the country, where he finds himself in the middle of an unsettling number of climate disastersโ€“ from historic forest fires in the American West to hurricanes on North Carolinaโ€™s Outer Banks. Eschewing the ubiquitous facts, figures, and policy debates that often dominate climate-focused books, David does what he does best: he tells stories. Specifically, he tells impactful, insightful stories from the front lines of the climate crisisโ€“ stories that will stick with the reader for years to come.

As has been our tradition for several years now, David and I met up in Boulder, Colorado, where he and his family visit each summer. We obviously talk a lot about the book, but as is the case whenever we get together, the conversation flows into many fun and unexpected topics. You can check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, but some of the topics include: Davidโ€™s recent writing workshop at the Zapata Ranch with his friend, author Craig Childs, the importance of momentum and dailiness in writing, how Davidโ€™s daughter was the influence for the new book, optimism vs pessimism when reporting current events, thoughts on death and loss, Davidโ€™s good friend, the late Mark Spitzer, the next generation of conservation-minded writers, some book recommendations, the idea of being a โ€œpolygamist of place,โ€ and much more.

Iโ€™m always happy to have the opportunity to sit down with David for a conversation, so I greatly appreciate his carving out the time. I hope you can check out A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World, and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Photos courtesy of David Gessner


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – Davidโ€™s Zapata Ranch retreat
  • 6:45 – Discussing the power of โ€œdailinessโ€
  • 7:45 – Whether or not teaching helped in Davidโ€™s practice of writing
  • 9:00 – How many books David has written in the past 18 months
  • 10:30 – How David knows when an idea becomes a book in his mind
  • 16:45 – Davidโ€™s goal for A Travelerโ€™s Guide to the End of the World, including how he balanced stories with statistics and humor with the weight of the subject
  • 20:45 – Evaluating how the news of the West is reported
  • 27:45 – What David means when he identifies as a โ€œpolygamist of placeโ€
  • 33:15 – Davidโ€™s relationship with Mark Spitzer
  • 39:30 – How David feels about entering a stage in life where his friends are beginning to pass away
  • 43:45 – Discussing Davidโ€™s daughter, climate change, and how they figure into A Travelerโ€™s Guide
  • 50:30 – David discussing the various tools he would like to use to face climate change 
  • 52:45 – Who David thinks will continue the work of the Doug Peacocks of the world
  • 56:45 – Discussing the political alignment affiliated with climate change work
  • 1:01:30 – Davidโ€™s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies

Doug Peacock and Ed in Aspen

Doug Peacock is a legendary environmentalist, writer, filmmaker, and grizzly bear advocate. Heโ€™s the co-founder of two conversation nonprofitsโ€“ Round River Conservation Studies and Save the Yellowstone Grizzly. Doug was also the inspiration for the character George Washington Hayduke in his friend Edward Abbeyโ€™s classic novel The Monkey Wrench Gang. And to top it all off, he is the author of many classic books, including Grizzly Years: In Search of the American Wilderness and his most recent award-winning book Was it Worth It? A Wilderness Warriorโ€™s Long Trail Home, published by Patagonia Books.  

Doug was born and raised in Michigan, where he grew up obsessed with nature and the outdoors. As a young man, he was drafted into the Vietnam War, where he served as a Green Beret combat medic, an experience that placed him squarely in the middle of devastating violence toward his fellow soldiers, as well as civilian men, women, and children. In 1968, he returned home from Vietnam spiritually broken, mentally unwell, and physically debilitated with malaria. Not knowing where to turn, he headed deep into the wilderness of Yellowstone National Park by himself, where he formed an unlikely bond with the Yellowstone Grizzly Bear. Eventually, he recovered both physically and mentally and, to this day, he credits the grizzly with saving his life. He has spent the last half-century repaying his debt to the grizzly bear, aggressively fighting for their protection and recovery in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and beyond.

I met up with Doug in Aspen, Colorado, where he was in town for a reading of Was it Worth It? at Aspenโ€™s only bookstore, Explore Booksellers. Even though I couldโ€™ve talked with Doug for many hours, we managed to jam a lot of stories into this conversation. Some of the topics we discussed include: Why Doug does not carry a gun in grizzly country; why it is important for humans to love and protect a creature as powerful, even dangerous, as a grizzly; his friendships with Edward Abbey, Yvon Chouinard, Jim Harrison, and others, and how each of those high-voltage personalities helped to elevate the others; the death and secret burial of Edward Abbey; why climate changes is such a threat to grizzlies, the challenges and financial realities of a life dedicated to environmental advocacy; his greatest source of pride and greatest disappointment; what is giving him hope now; and Doug reads several passages from Was It Worth It?

Today, at age 81, you can still feel the fire in Dougโ€™s spirit and his passion for grizzlies is palpable. I was honored to have the opportunity to chat with Doug, and I loved his book Was it Worth It? I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Doug Peacock and Patagonia Books


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:10 – Discussing the picture on the front of Dougโ€™s book
  • 6:25 – When Doug decided it wasnโ€™t fair to be in grizzly country with guns
  • 8:40 – How Yellowstone became a part of Dougโ€™s life 
  • 10:55 – How grizzlies provided a much-needed community for Doug after his time at war
  • 12:40 – How long it took for Doug to find peace in grizzly country after Vietnam
  • 15:10 – Exploring Dougโ€™s balance between telling the good stories and being willing to fight for conservation
  • 18:10 – Why specifically it is so important for humans to learn to love and protect a creature as powerful, even dangerous, as a grizzly
  • 19:40 – How Dougโ€™s friends made him a better conservationist
  • 21:40 – How Dougโ€™s friends balance their very strong personalities
  • 22:40 – The importance of ceremony and how Doug handled the passing of his dear friend, Ed Abbey
  • 28:40 – Whether or not parenthood changed Dougโ€™s outlook on risk and death
  • 30:10 – Who or where Doug drew his motivation from
  • 32:10 – How Doug managed his lifestyle
  • 33:40 – What keeps Doug awake at night, as it pertains to grizzlies
  • 36:40 – How Doug became interested in fighting climate change by way of grizzlies
  • 39:30 – Where Doug would focus his energy if he were starting his career in conservation now
  • 40:25 – Whether or not Doug is an optimist
  • 43:40 – What work Doug is most proud of in his life, and where he thinks he may have fallen short
  • 46:00 – Dougโ€™s friendship with Jim Harrison
  • 47:10 – What gives Doug hope
  • 48:40 – Dougโ€™s mandatory reading

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Chris Hawkins – Using Nature to Build Healthier & More Equitable Communities

Chris Hawkins

Chris Hawkins is the Colorado Urban Conservation Manager for The Nature Conservancy, where he leads the organizationโ€™s efforts in Denver to โ€œsolve global challenges like the biodiversity and climate emergencies by supporting and creating more sustainable, efficient ways of living.โ€

When many people think of The Nature Conservancy, they may envision large-scale conservation efforts across vast grasslands and wild landscapesโ€“ but TNC also conducts some of its most innovative conservation work in citiesโ€” work that leads to more resilient, healthy, and equitable communities. Chrisโ€™s work in Denver is a shining example of how nature-based solutions in densely populated urban areas can have positive ripple effects far beyond the city limits.

Chris was born and raised on the east coast, attended college in Boston, and from the very beginning of his career, heโ€™s been focused on service and causes greater than himself. Heโ€™s worked as a Corps Member of AmericaCorps, as Chief of Staff in New York Cityโ€™s Department of Environmental Protection, and for the past nine years, heโ€™s been with the Nature Conservancy. As youโ€™ll hear in this conversation, Chrisโ€™s diverse professional experiences have allowed him to bring a unique and effective perspective to the complex world of urban conservation.

Chris was nice enough to join me at my dining room table for an engaging and educational conversation about all things urban conservation. We started out by discussing why TNC has chosen to devote its resources and expertise to conservation in cities, and he explains the unique challenges facing cities in the West. We discuss how public health is directly related to peopleโ€™s access to nature, and how the simple-but-not-easy strategy of planting trees in neighborhoods can have huge conservation and public health benefits. As is the case with all of my conservation-related conversations, we discuss the critical importance of relationships, and how Chris has managed to build relationships with a diverse group of Denver residents. We also discuss his professional trajectory, the importance of exporting urban conservation ideas to other cities, and the critical roles of mayors and local leadership. And finally, Chris is a serious history buff, so we have a great discussion about books.

There is so much fascinating information packed into this episode, and I greatly appreciate Chrisโ€™s taking the time to share his wisdom with the Mountain & Prairie community. Check out the episode notes below for links to everything we discuss. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Chris Hawkins and The Nature Conservancy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download onย Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:45 – Why do Chris and TNC work in cities
  • 7:00 – Thriving cities in the West and the unique challenges they present
  • 9:30 – Whether or not the health benefits of the outdoors have become a larger part of Chrisโ€™s work recently
  • 15:30 – Discussing trees
  • 27:45 – How Chris builds relationships in his work in cities
  • 33:45 – Specific strategies Chris uses to build trust
  • 38:30 – Where Chris grew up and why he became involved in this work
  • 43:30 – Discussing the work of city mayors
  • 53:00- How ideas that are exported or imported between cities show up in Chrisโ€™s work in Denver
  • 1:00:15 – Chrisโ€™s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Live from the Strenuous Life Retreat: In Conversation with Nancy Fishbein

Nancy Fishbein

Back in September of 2022, I held the first annual Strenuous Life Retreat at the renowned Zapata Ranch in Coloradoโ€™s San Luis Valley. The retreat consisted of five days of adventure and education inspired by Theodore Rooseveltโ€™s well-known commitment to living โ€œthe Strenuous Life.โ€ We hiked high into the Sangre de Cristo Mountains, rode horses in Great Sand Dunes National Park, and enjoyed world-class meals. And each afternoon, we enjoyed facilitated conversations about land stewardship, conservation, and regenerative agriculture. This episode is a recording of one of those conversations.

I was honored to be joined by conservation veteran Nancy Fishbein, who serves as Director of Resilient Lands for the Colorado Chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Nancy has been a long-standing leader in the Western conservation community, so we were all honored that she took time out of her full schedule to join us and share some stories and hard-earned wisdom. The Zapata Ranch is owned by the Nature Conservancy and managed by Ranchlands, so Nancy has a unique insight into the history of the ranch, as well as the importance of conservation in the San Luis Valley.ย 

We recorded this conversation at the ranchโ€™s education center, one afternoon after a morning of horseback riding. The first half consists of me asking the questions, and the second half consists of questions from the retreat participants. We cover everything from the history of the Zapata Ranch to the establishment of Great Sand Dunes National Park, which adjoins the ranch to the north. We talk about the conservation bison herd that calls the ranch home, and some of the ongoing challenges in the San Luis Valley created by water speculation and development. We discuss how mineral rights development can coexist with conservation, the protection of biodiversity on ranches, how TNC and the National Park Service work together, and much more. As youโ€™ll hear, everyone in attendance was super engaged and curious about Nancyโ€™s work, and it showed in the range of interesting and thoughtful questions. 

I hope this episode will give you a bit of insight into the types of conversations we had at the 2022 Retreat and the kind of conversations you can expect in 2023 and beyond. Colorado is blessed to have so many committed conservationists like Nancy who devote their time and energy to protecting and stewarding these spectacular landscapes, and I canโ€™t thank Nancy enough for taking the time to join us.

If youโ€™re interested in joining me for the 2023 Retreat, as of this recording there are still a few spots left. Follow this link to learn more and reserve your spot. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy!

Header photo by Ranchlands, Nancy’s headshot by The Nature Conservancy.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – A quick intro to Nancy
  • 5:30 – The story of the Education Center on Zapata Ranch
  • 7:00 – How Zapata Ranch first got onto TNCโ€™s radar
  • 10:00 – How TNC goes about acquiring properties like Zapata Ranch
  • 12:15 – Why the previous owner of Zapata Ranch did not charge TNC full fair market value for the property
  • 13:30 – The importance of relationships in TNCโ€™s work
  • 15:30 – What happened after TNC acquired Zapata Ranch
  • 18:15 – Explaining a conservation easement
  • 20:00 – Why the bison herd on Zapata Ranch were such a focal point of TNCโ€™s conservation work there
  • 22:15 – Why TNC has chosen to hold onto Zapata Ranch as an owner for so long
  • 25:45 – How TNC works with various levels of government agencies
  • 27:30 – Nancyโ€™s biggest concern for the San Luis Valley
  • 29:00 – The most recent scheme to remove water from the San Luis Valley
  • 31:45 – Audience questions begin
  • 32:00 – Whether or not Nancy wished that TNC had done something different in their acquisition of Zapata Ranch
  • 32:45 – Nancyโ€™s surprises and lessons learned about Zapata
  • 34:30 – Why an easement cannot be put on San Luis Valleyโ€™s aquifer
  • 36:15 – TNCโ€™s role in the establishment of Baca Wildlife Refuge and the Great Sand Dunes National Park
  • 40:45 – The distinction between a national park and national monument
  • 41:30 – How the TNC navigated purchasing land that was managed by a private company (Rocky Mountain Bison) but on leased state land
  • 42:30 – Exploring the potential causality between water export schemes in the San Luis Valley and the establishment of the Great Sand Dunes National Park
  • 44:00 – Whether or not there remains the appetite for bipartisan action, such as the kind that led to the creation of the Great Sand Dunes National Park, in our current political climate
  • 45:00 – Exploring TNCโ€™s support of agriculture as a conservation service
  • 43:30 – Whether or not TNC deals with agricultural leases
  • 51:30 – How easements impact mineral and mining rights on a property
  • 53:30 – How fracking might complicate conservation easements, and whether or not easements are a successful tool for reducing oil and gas developmentย 
  • 55:45 – How TNC measures success in its conservation work and the preservation of biodiversity on a property, andย  ow they respond to and act on those measurements
  • 1:00:55 – What TNC is working on right now in Colorado

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Jesse Griffiths – Humility, Curiosity, and Creative Cuisine

Jesse Griffiths is an Austin-based chef, author, hunter, and fisherman, and heโ€™s also the co-owner of Dai Due Butcher Shop & Supper Club and the New School of Traditional Cookery. Jesseโ€™s work has been featured everywhere from The New York Times to the Joe Rogan Experience, and heโ€™s a regular contributor to Steven Rinellaโ€™s MeatEater. As an author, Jesse has received great praise for his two books, the James Beard Award-finalist cookbook, Afield: A Chefโ€™s Guide to Preparing and Cooking Wild Game and Fish, as well as his most recent title, The Hog Book: A Chefโ€™s Guide to Hunting, Preparing, and Cooking Wild Pigs.

Born and raised in Denton, Texas, Jesse grew up obsessed with fishingโ€“ he loved catching the fish, but he also loved cooking and eating them. As a teenager, he started working in restaurants and became more and more interested in cookingโ€“ an interest that he pursued full-time after graduating from high school. Propelled by a deep curiosity and a desire to broaden his perspective, he would save up his money and then travel, studying food and cooking in a wide variety of cultures around the world. Eventually, Jesse combined all of his unique personal and professional experiences and opened his own restaurant, Dia Due, which features food that is โ€œproduced in a fair and equitable way, represent(s) local culinary traditions, and support(s) farmers and ranchers who are striving to improve the quality of our food.โ€

Iโ€™ve been a fan of Jesseโ€™s work for many years, so I was thrilled when we were introduced by a mutual friend. Over the course of our hour together, we covered a lot, include: Jesseโ€™s upbringing in Texas and his early days in cooking, the importance of international travel, the challenges of getting Dai Due off the ground, the importance of humility and curiosity, a deep dive into wild hogs in Texas, his approach to writing, Jesseโ€™s recent obsession with wild turkeys, and, of course, Jesse offers a ton of great book recommendations. 

I loved this conversation and was blown away by Jesseโ€™s kindness and humility. I really appreciate his taking the time to chat with me, and I know youโ€™ll learn a lot from Jesseโ€™s fascinating life story.  Enjoy!

Photos by Jody Horton for The Hog Book


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – Jesseโ€™s upbringing
  • 7:30 – How Jesse got involved in cooking
  • 12:15 – When Jesse first left the USA
  • 13:30 – The importance of international travel
  • 16:45 – Jesseโ€™s mentors
  • 24:15 – Getting Dai Due started
  • 27:15 – How Jesse learned to be a manager
  • 31:15 – The source of Jesseโ€™s humility
  • 36:15 – Jesseโ€™s work with Texas wild hogs
  • 50:15 – Jesseโ€™s ethos in writing
  • 51:30 – Jesseโ€™s recent work with turkeys
  • 1:01:15 – Jesseโ€™s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Christian Beckwith, Part 2 – The Fascinating History of the 10th Mountain Division

Christian Beckwith
Photo: David Stubbs

For todayโ€™s conversation, I was thrilled to chat once again with Christian Beckwith, a Jackson, Wyoming-based writer, historian, conservationist, and entrepreneur. Christianโ€™s latest project is โ€œNinety-Pound Rucksack: A podcast about the US Army’s 10th Mountain Division and the dawn of outdoor recreation in America.โ€ย 

If you enjoy spending time up high in the mountains here in the American West, then youโ€™ve surely heard at least a passing mention of the 10th Mountain Division. Itโ€™s nearly impossible to travel up and down the I-70 corridor here in Colorado without seeing a few references to the 10th. But if youโ€™re like me, you probably do not have a sufficient appreciation for the exciting story of how and why the division was formed, and how its creation set the trajectory for climbing, skiing, and recreational outdoor adventure for decades to come.

Whether youโ€™re a climber, skier, or simply a history buff who enjoys diving into untold stories from pivotal moments in our past, then I highly recommend Ninety-Pound Rucksack. The podcast starts out exploring the 1939 Russian invasion of Finland, and how, despite being outmatched on nearly every level, the Fins were able to put up a heroic fight thanks to their ability to efficiently maneuver through cold, snowy, rugged terrain on skis. The story then shifts to America, where a small group of young mountaineers and skiers recognized the importance of mountain warfare and began to lobby the government to focus on this unconventional approach to battle. I wonโ€™t give any more details away, but the podcast is just the kind of history I love: big adventures, one-of-a-kind characters, and people driven by causes larger than themselves.ย 

To learn more about Christianโ€™s personal background, Iโ€™d encourage you to go back and listen to our first conversation from many years ago. Because in this one, we talk all history, all the timeโ€“ from the backstory of the 10th, to the adventurous young men who dreamed it up, to how that time period affects us still today. Toward the end of the conversation, Christian offers up some valuable wisdom on the need to be tenacious in all creative and entrepreneurial endeavors, and he also has some really great book recommendations.

Follow the links in the episode notes to listen to Ninety-Pound Rucksack, and please pass the podcast along to any of your history-loving friends. A big thanks to Christian for working so hard to create this podcast and for joining me for another conversation. Hope you enjoy!

Headshot by David Stubbs


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

… or wherever you get your podcasts!

โ€”


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – An overview of Christanโ€™s background
  • 13:15 – How the 10th Mountain Division was established
  • 26:15 – How the 10th Mountain Division impacted the development of skiing in the US
  • 32:15 – How digging into the history of the 10th impacted Christianโ€™s thinking about the present
  • 40:45 – Discussing Christianโ€™s code switch from adventure writing to engaging history writing
  • 45:15 – The podcastโ€™s advisory councilย 
  • 50:15 – Christianโ€™s advice for people who have an idea but feel they are not qualified to pursue it
  • 54:45 – Discussing Christianโ€™s tenacity
  • 57:00 – What can we do to help get the word out about Christianโ€™s work
  • 1:00:00 – Christianโ€™s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Matt Moorhead & Galen Guerrero-Murphy – Grasslands Conservation on the Southern High Plains

Matt Moorhead

Matt Moorhead and Galen Guerrero-Murphy are conservationists who work for The Nature Conservancy on its Southern Highs Plains Initiative (SHPI), a collaboration between five states with the shared goal of protecting the nationโ€™s grasslands. The Southern High Plains encompasses approximately 71 million acres across Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas. The region is home to some of the countryโ€™s most important grasslands, as well as the people and wildlife who depend on the invaluable shortgrass prairie ecosystem.ย 

Officially, Matt is TNCโ€™s Conservation Business & Partnership Development Advisor and Galen is TNCโ€™s Land Conservation Program Managerโ€“ but at their core, they are both relationship builders. As youโ€™ll hear in this conversation, both Matt and Galen work tirelessly to build long-term, rock-solid partnerships with landowners and conservation partners with the goal of finding win-win solutions that can be mutually beneficial for all parties.  Through genuine curiosity, creative thinking, and a deep respect for landowners and their legacy, Matt and Galen have helped to implement lasting conservation outcomes in the Southern High Plains.

Galen Guerrero-Murphy

The three of us connected virtually and had a fascinating conversation about grasslands, ranching, buidling relationships, and purpose-driven work. We start out by defining exactly what constitutes the Southern High Plains and why this is such an important region for conservation. We then discuss why the large percentage of private ownership creates such a compelling case for conservation, the need for balancing conservation with various forms of energy development, the current markets around grasslands carbon sequestration, and the all-important role of TNCโ€™s partners. We also discuss Matt and Galenโ€™s mentors, how they measure conservation success, and some of their favorite books. 

Iโ€™ve considered Matt and Galen to be friends and mentors for many years now, so I was grateful for the opportunity to talk with them on the podcast. Hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, header photo by Lauryn Wachs


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

โ€ฆor wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancyโ€™s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancyโ€™s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:10 – Introductions
  • 6:25 – What are the Southern High Plains 
  • 9:55 – Why the Southern High Plains are so critical in conservation
  • 16:10 – How the patchwork of private lands in the Southern High Plains allows Matt and Galen to be effective in their conservation work
  • 20:55 – The process of building relationships in private lands conservation work
  • 29:10 – Balancing the potential for landowners to earn revenue through energy development with the interest in conserving landscapes 
  • 35:10 – Where things stand on grassland carbon sequestration as a method of generating both landowner revenue as well as conservation outcomes
  • 39:10 – The importance and skills of TNCโ€™s partners
  • 43:10 – Matt and Galenโ€™s mentors
  • 50:10 – What progress on the Southern High Plains Initiative would make Matt and Galen happy in 10-15 years
  • 53:40 – Matt and Galenโ€™s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is become_a_patron_button@2x.png

Seven Years of Mountain & Prairie

Exactly seven years ago TODAY, I hit publish on the first episode of Mountain & Prairie.

When I started the podcast, I had no expectation that anyone would listen.

It was just a selfish side project that allowed me to have substantive, focused conversations with people I admired and ask them deeper questions about their motivations, influences, and workโ€“ questions that wouldโ€™ve been off-the-charts weird in a normal social situation.

So I went to Best Buy, bought the cheapest mic they had, plugged it into my laptop, and sat down with my friend and mentor Erik Glenn of the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust, who already knew I was a weirdo and patiently answered my questions.

That was Episode 1.

Then I did it again and again and again, every other week, for many years.

For a long time, very few people (other than my mom and dad) listened. But again, it was a selfish project that was improving my life, so I didnโ€™t care.

But at some point, I realized that a lot more people were listening, and that they too were gleaning value from the conversations with all the amazing guests. 🤯🤯🤯

And now here we areโ€”Iโ€™m still having oddly intense conversations with friends and colleagues, and, amazingly, I now get to sit down and talk with some of my heroes who Iโ€™ve admired from afar for decades. And Iโ€™m still learning from each conversation, as are many of you.

The whole thing is just crazy, in the best possible way. (Remember, if things had gone according to plan, Iโ€™d be a stockbroker.)

A sincere THANK YOU to all of the guests who have taken the time to talk with me and share their wisdom. Whether they know it or not, many, many people have gleaned great value from their stories.

Another sincere THANK YOU to everyone who listens. I am a complete maniac when it comes to protecting my time/attention and I assume yโ€™all are too, so itโ€™s a great honor that you devote hours of your time to M&P.

And a HUGE thank you to all of the various financial supportersโ€“ Patreon and individual supporters, episode partners, trip & retreat participants, show attendees, organizations that have hired me to speak/host, etc. I wouldโ€™ve never expected this thing to be my job, but it is, and your support is invaluable.

Here are a few photos from a summer morning in Crested Butteโ€“ the morning I snapped the pic that ended up being the podcast’s thumbnail image.


Thank you, thank you! Here’s to the next seven years!