Category: Blog

Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education

Sandy Colhoun

Sandy Colhoun is the President of the National Outdoor Leadership School, also known as NOLS

Founded in 1965 by legendary mountaineer Paul Petzolt, NOLS is widely considered to be the world’s premier wilderness school, and its mission is “to be the leading source and teacher of wilderness skills and leadership that serve people and the environment.” NOLS operates in many of the world’s wildest outdoor classrooms, and it provides the highest quality instruction in many outdoor skills, including wilderness travel, mountaineering, rock climbing, sea kayaking, and more. But perhaps most importantly, through these outdoor adventures, NOLS students learn the foundational and all-important life skills of leadership, teamwork, humility, and responsibility.  

Sandy was named the seventh President of NOLS in October of 2023, after serving as the interim President and, before that, as a member of the NOLS Board of Trustees. Prior to his work with NOLS, he had spent much of his career in the worlds of education and journalism, most notably leading a $750 million fundraising campaign at Colby College in Maine. Sandy is also a proud graduate of a NOLS Wind River Mountaineering course, and he’s no stranger to hardcore outdoor adventures– he worked as a ski patroller in Park City, climbed in Alaska, Nepal, and Bolivia, and cycled up and over the Himalayas from Tibet to Nepal. As you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s focused, driven, and lots of fun, and he’s s fully committed to leading NOLS into the future.

I’m a proud graduate of a 1999 semester-long NOLS course, which was hands-down one of the most formative and valuable experiences of my entire life. Yes, I learned plenty of outdoor skills that have served me well for nearly 25 years now, but the most important lessons were those that taught me the value of good exhibition behavior, being comfortable in uncomfortable situations, and keeping a positive attitude when life gets difficult. If not for that semester, I highly doubt I would’ve ever moved out west, worked in conservation, or started this podcast. So, I’m obviously a superfan of all things NOLS.

I was so excited to chat with Sandy, and we covered a lot in our hour-long conversation. We discussed the history of NOLS, what separates NOLS from other wilderness schools, risk management, exhibition behavior, expanding one’s comfort zone, a description of the ideal NOLS student, Sandy’s own leadership style, his vision for the future of NOLS, how he will measure success, leaders that Sandy admires, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss.

A huge thank you to Sandy for being so generous with his time and for everything he and the entire team at NOLS do to make the world a better place. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy!


All photos by Ruby Jean Photography and courtesy of NOLS


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Topics Discussed:

  • 4:00 – A brief history of NOLS
  • 8:15 – What sets NOLS apart from other outdoor schools
  • 10:30 – Discussing NOLS’ partnerships
  • 13:00 – How NOLS manages risk
  • 16:30 – The talent of NOLS instructors
  • 19:00 – What “expedition behavior” is
  • 22:15 – How NOLS recruits students in a world that prioritizes job opportunities and career advancement
  • 24:45 – How NOLS expands one’s comfort zone
  • 28:45 – The ideal NOLS student
  • 30:15 – Determining the next chapter of NOLS in the early 2020s
  • 33:30 – Sandy’s career pre-NOLS
  • 37:00 – Sandy’s leadership style
  • 42:30 – How Sandy got his mind around the task of taking the helm at NOLS
  • 46:00 – Measuring future success at NOLS
  • 49:00 – Leaders that Sandy admires
  • 52:15 – Sandy’s book recommendations
  • 58:15 – Sandy’s parting words of wisdom, and how you can support NOLS

Information Referenced:



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Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces

Kami Bakken

Kami Bakken is a river guide and outdoor advocate, and she currently serves as the Director of the Freeflow Foundation and Director of Ambassador and Grant Programs for Rivers for Change. A native of Minnesota, Kami headed West for college at Colorado State University, where she earned a degree in Human Dimensions of Natural Resources. Since graduating in 2018, she has been fully focused on helping others explore and appreciate the mountains and rivers of the American West, while also advocating for their protection and conservation.

Kami and I met in 2023 when she was the facilitator on my Green River Freeflow Institute workshop through Dinosaur National Monument and the Gates of Lodore. During our weeks of preparation for the course and our five days on the river, I was so impressed by her expertise in outdoor education and river travel and, perhaps more importantly, by her ability to connect with a wide range of people in a sometimes-intense wilderness setting. She’s humble yet confident, earnest yet hilarious, and I credit her with so much of the success of that workshop.

When I was in my late 20s and deep in a traditional career in the real estate business, I dreamed of having a life and career like Kami’s– one that combined adventure and wide-open spaces with purpose-driven work. So I wanted to chat with her in depth to learn more about how she has made it all happen. If, like I was, you are interested in learning the realities of following a non-traditional but deeply fulfilling career in the outdoors, then you’ll definitely learn a lot from Kami.

Kami & Ed: Very serious people.

We met up a few weeks ago at my house in the Springs and had a wide-ranging and funny conversation about her life, career, adventures, and crazy misadventures. We talked about what drew her to Colorado for college, and some of the challenges of adjusting to such a new place and environment where she didn’t know anyone. We discussed some of her wild experiences traveling in the West and internationally– including a few run-ins with cult-like groups– and how she took the leap to become a sea kayaking guide and eventually a western river guide. We talk a lot about her commitment to pushing outside of her comfort zone, overcoming fear and discomfort, and why she’s drawn to conservation work. We also discuss the financial realities of seasonal work, how her non-profit work compliments her guiding work, her career plans for the future, and her roles with the Freeflow Institute and Foundation.

And it’s worth noting that Kami and I will be heading out on the river again this summer for another Freeflow workshop, this time on Oregon’s Wild & Scenic Rogue River– August 15th through 20th. As of this recording, there are still a few spots left, so you can follow the link to learn more about the workshop and apply. As of this moment, you can use the secret code “ED200” to get $200 off of the tuition.

A huge thanks to Kami for agreeing to let me ask her a bunch of weird questions and, most importantly, for all of her leadership and support on our river trips. Enjoy!


All photos courtesy of Kami Bakken


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Topics Discussed:

  • 4:00 – Where Kami is from
  • 5:00 – Why Kami went to Colorado State, and how her family felt about that decision
  • 9:00 – How her early experience in Colorado led her to WWOOF (and apparently a couple of cults)
  • 15:30 – Kami’s return to CSU, and her entry into the world of outdoor recreation
  • 19:30 – Kami’s travel adventures post-graduation
  • 22:00 – Kami’s time with Protect Our Winters
  • 24:15 – Kami’s transition to professional guiding
  • 27:45 – Where Kami’s desire for connection and impact led her career next
  • 31:45 – What Kami’s friends from college were doing while she was raft guiding, and whether or not she has ever questioned her career path
  • 33:30 – Exploring the difference between contentment and happiness, and some more details about the outdoor education and rafting nonprofit that Kami worked for
  • 37:15 – Kami’s transition to the Freeflow Foundation
  • 44:00 – Discussing the Freeflow Foundation
  • 45:45 – Balancing safety with growth driven by risk
  • 50:00 – The trip that Ed and Kami did together on the Green River
  • 54:45 – What makes for a good outdoor guide, and what makes for a bad one
  • 59:00 – Who Kami admires 
  • 1:03:00 – Kami’s next steps
  • 1:05:45 – What worries Kami
  • 1:09:00 – Kami’s book recommendations
  • 1:10:30 – Kami’s advice for those who want to try a new lifestyle or career

Information Referenced:



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Hampton Sides Returns: The Wild and Tragic Tale of Captain James Cook

Hampton Sides is a Santa Fe-based historian and bestselling author who has written many books that are favorites of Mountain & Prairie listeners, including Blood and Thunder, On Desperate Ground, and Ghost Soldiers. His newest book is The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook, which is available now and sitting high on the New York Times bestseller list. If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then I’m sure you’re glad to see that Hampton has joined me for yet another podcast conversation.

Much of Captain Cook’s epic third voyage takes place far from the mountains and prairies of the American West, in tropical paradises including Tahiti and Hawaii. But what you may not realize, is that a big portion of his final voyage was spent exploring and mapping the west coast of North America, from the rocky shores of present-day Oregon and Washington, all the way up to Alaska. While I was somewhat familiar with Cook and his explorations, I didn’t fully understand or appreciate the mind-blowing scale of his journeys or his impact on world history.

As is the case with all of Hampton’s books, he melds together deep and extensive research with thrilling storytelling to make the process of understanding history as entertaining as it is educational. While Cook is obviously a central figure in The Wide Wide Sea, the book also profiles numerous fascinating Polynesian and Indigenous historical figures, including the Tahitian man named Mai, whom Hampton and I discussed at length in our September 2021 episode. If you haven’t already listened to that episode, I’d encourage you to do so when you’re done with this one.

Hampton and I met up here in Colorado Springs, one of many stops on his book tour for The Wide Wide Sea. As usual, we had a fun and at times very funny conversation about history, his research and writing process, and all things Captain Cook. We started out discussing why Hampton is drawn to write about controversial historical figures, and we talked at length about how he combined historical accounts from Europeans with those from the Indigenous communities that Cook visited. We talked about the mystery of Cook’s dramatic personality change, how Cook’s arrival disrupted the equilibrium of Polynesian cultures, Cook’s leadership style both before and after his personality change, how Hampton organized such massive amounts of research, and how and why he works so hard to get his books into the world. He also gives a sneak peek into his next book, which will based here in Colorado and explores one of the West’s most notorious massacres.

A huge thank you to Hampton for taking time out of his busy schedule to chat with me again, and thank you for listening. Enjoy!


All photos courtesy of Hampton Sides


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 7:00 – Why write about Captain Cook
  • 10:45 – Captain Cook, pre-1776
  • 16:45 – Cook’s ship
  • 21:15 – Exploring Cook’s mental health
  • 25:30 – Exploring humans’ predisposition towards greed
  • 29:30 – The importance of doing boots-on-the-ground research for history
  • 32:00 – How Cook kept scurvy at bay
  • 34:30 – Hampton’s biggest unexpected discovery while writing The Wide Wide Sea
  • 38:00 – Whether or not Hampton experienced apprehensions about telling the story of a complicated person like Cook
  • 42:00 – Discussing the circumstances that led to Cook’s death
  • 45:45 – Discussing some of Cook’s personality traits and cultural differences between Cook and the Māori 
  • 49:30 – How Hampton organizes his quotes for writing
  • 53:45 – How Hampton actually sells his books
  • 58:00 – Hampton’s plans for the future

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation

Celene Hawkins

Celene Hawkins is the Colorado River Tribal Water Partnerships Program Director for the Nature Conservancy, and Izabella Ruffino is the Tribal and Indigenous Engagement Program Manager for the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy. Both Celene and Izabella use their skills to advance and support tribal-led land and water conservation work throughout the American West.  

Most of Celene’s work is centered around the Colorado River Basin, and she has played an integral role in many cutting-edge water conservation projects that have sought out Tribal voices and Indigenous perspectives to create some of the West’s most effective and equitable solutions to complex water challenges. Perhaps most notably, she worked with the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and her colleagues at TNC to create a first-of-its-kind water agreement that was a true win-win for nature and people.

Izabella Ruffino

Izabella’s work builds on TNC’s strong foundation of partnerships with Tribal Nations for land and water issues, and she is also focused on expanding Tribal and Indigenous engagement into all aspects of TNC’s wide-ranging conservation work. Additionally, she is responsible for internal efforts to fortify organizational cultural awareness and humility within TNC’s Colorado Chapter. As you’ll hear, Izabella is doing everything from leading internal educational initiatives to working with wide-ranging stakeholder groups on projects such as determining the best uses for TNC-owned land and preserves.

In this episode, we dig into the details of many of their specific projects and initiatives, but we also talk more broadly about the importance of seeking out Indigenous perspectives to help guide TNC’s critical conservation work worldwide. They both offer plentiful resources– online courses, books, podcasts, essays, and more– that will help me (and you, the listener!) better understand the importance of bringing together diverse perspectives to guide the next chapter of conversation work in the West and beyond.

Celene and Izabella mention so many excellent books, people, and resources, so don’t forget to check out the episode notes for links to everything. A big thanks to them both for such a fun, inspiring, and educational conversation. I hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy: Header © Roberto Rosales; headshots from Celene and Izabella.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Introductions
  • 8:30 – The win-win partnership between the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and TNC
  • 14:00- Challenges and opportunities related to putting together the partnership deal
  • 19:00 – Benefits to all parties as a result of the deal
  • 21:30 – Positive ripple effects resulting from the partnership
  • 24:15 – TNC’s strategies for managing its preserves, including the Medano Zapata Ranch
  • 29:15- The process of gathering Indigenous and local perspectives
  • 32:00 – Strategies, tactics, and frameworks for building cross-cultural relationships
  • 36:30 – Balancing the time it takes to build solid relationships with the reality that “time is of the essence”
  • 40:30 – Upcoming exciting projects
  • 44:30 – Resources for further learning
  • 50:30 – Why they each chose to apply their talents, skills, and careers to the cause of conservation
  • 55:30 – Heroes and mentors
  • 1:05:00 – Favorite books
  • 1:11:00 – Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose

Kristine Tompkins
Credit: Adam Amengual

Kristine Tompkins is an iconic conservationist, the president and co-founder of Tompkins Conservation, and the former CEO of Patagonia. For three decades, she has committed to protecting and restoring wild beauty and biodiversity by creating national parks, restoring wildlife, inspiring activism, and fostering economic vitality through conservation.

Kristine and her late husband Douglas Tompkins have protected approximately 14.8 million acres of parklands in Chile and Argentina through Tompkins Conservation and its partners, making them among the most successful national park-oriented philanthropists in history. To give you a frame of reference for exactly how much land 14.8 million acres is, Yellowstone National Park is just over 2.2 million acres– so the scale and scope of Tompkins Conservation’s impact is truly mind-blowing.

Kristine’s amazing life story was beautifully told in the 2023 feature-length documentary Wild Life, which I highly recommend and can be streamed on Disney+. She was also awarded the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy, and she recently gave her second TED talk, which will be released in the coming weeks. She’s been featured by pretty much every media outlet you could imagine, so I was honored that she took time out of her very full schedule to chat with me.

Tompkins Conservation has published multiple books about its groundbreaking conservation work in South America. The most recent book is titled Patagonia National Park Chile, which tells the story of the park’s transformation from a former sheep ranch into one of the crown jewels of Chile’s National Park system. Featuring stunning photography by Linde Waidhofer and essays by Kristine, the former President of Chile Michelle Bachelet, Yvon Chouinard, and many others, the coffee-table style book is equal parts inspiring and educational. It’s the kind of book that you’d proudly display on your shelf and find yourself revisiting for years to come.

I met up with Kristine at her California home, and we had a fun and fascinating conversation about everything from the book to leadership to the growth and evolution of Tompkins Conservation. We discussed optimism and pessimism, the difference between contentment and happiness, the importance of having a relentless work ethic, living an extreme life, and operating as if you have nothing to lose. We also talked in detail about the challenges of creating Patagonia National Park, balancing rewilding efforts with the need for economic vitality, and how the conservation lessons learned in South America can be applied to conservation efforts here in the American West. There are even a few brief appearances by her two very sweet pups who sat with us during our conversation, so all of you dog lovers will surely enjoy hearing from them.

Patagonia National Park Chile is available right now at Patagonia.com and available for pre-order wherever you get your books. Follow the links in the episode notes to learn more.

A huge thank you to Kristine for inviting me into her home and being so gracious and generous with her time. And another huge thanks to the teams at Tompkins Conservation and Patagonia Books for the opportunity. Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy.


All photos courtesy of Patagonia. Header photo credit: Nicolas Piwonka; Headshot photo credit: Adam Amengual


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Topics Discussed:

  • 3:40 – Why Kris keeps coming back to books
  • 7:30 – Who is Arnie Næss
  • 13:45 – Discussing leadership, giving credit, and other behaviors key to Kris’s success
  • 18:40 – Happiness vs contentment
  • 21:30 – Discussing Valle Chacabuco
  • 25:45 – Establishing local buy-in as a conservation entity not local to Chile
  • 30:30 – How the Tompkins managed livestock on the Valle Chacabuco
  • 32:15 – The speed at which settlers spread to Chile
  • 34:15 – Whether Kris is an optimist or pessimist 
  • 36:00 – Who in the new generation gives Kris hope, and what Kris thinks about “hope”
  • 40:45 – Kris’s view on taking action
  • 44:30 – How Kris prioritizes her efforts
  • 49:45 – What Kris has learned in South America that is applicable to the North American West
  • 52:15 – Business’s impact on Kris and Doug’s conservation work ethic
  • 53:45 – Kris’s favorite failure and lessons learned
  • 59:45 – Kris’s life of extremes and passion for service
  • 1:05:45 – Kris’s book recommendations
  • 1:15:45 – The land trust movement in the US, and the American grasslands

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Logan Maxwell Hagege Returns – On Taking Action & Finding Balance

Logan Maxwell Hagege in his studio.
Photo credit: Dylan Gordon

Logan Maxwell Hagege is an Ojai, CA-based contemporary artist with modern visions of the American West. Logan is no stranger to longtime Mountain & Prairie listeners—he first joined me on the podcast back in 2019, and he made another appearance in 2022 alongside several other renowned Western artists in an episode recorded live at Maxwell Alexander Gallery’s 10th-anniversary exhibition. In this episode, I reconnected with Logan at his Ojai studio, and we caught up on a long list of fascinating topics, including his upcoming exhibition at the Gerald Peters Gallery in New York City titled Flowers Will Grow.

Since our first podcast conversation, Logan’s artistic career has continued to skyrocket, and his work has earned the acclaim of a growing number of collectors, critics, and journalists. Most recently, his painting titled “Time and Space” won Best in Show at the Autry’s Masters of the American West show. He’s also been featured in all corners of the Western art world, including a recent spread in Western Art and Architecture and collaborations with well-known brands such as Stetson and Pendleton. But perhaps most impressively, he’s accomplished all of this success while being a deeply committed husband and father of two young children.

As you’ll hear in this conversation, Logan works extremely hard and is fully committed to exploring new realms of his artistic interests, but he brings balance and calmness to what could easily become an all-consuming obsession. I caught Logan just as he was wrapping up all the final details for his upcoming show, and we had a fun discussion about a wide range of topics, including: The intensity of preparing for a show, accepting the judgment that comes with showing art, his practice of constant doodling, how living in Ojai has changed his approach, the importance of self-talk, Georgia O’Keefe, the idea that perfection is boring, the need for action, and much more. Check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything.

And if you happen to be in New York, the Flowers Will Grow exhibition will open with a reception with Logan on Thursday evening, April 18, 2024, and will be on display through May 23rd.

A huge thanks to Logan for letting me barge into his studio during such a busy time and a huge thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!

All photos by Dylan Gordon


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:45 – What the hell is happening in Logan’s studio, and his upcoming show in New York
  • 5:15 – Why Logan is working with a gallery outside of Maxwell Alexander
  • 7:30 – Whether Logan was nervous the last time he showed his art in New York
  • 9:00 – The impact of being able to show more examples of an artist’s work
  • 11:15 – How periods of intensity and external pressure have shaped Logan’s work
  • 12:45 – How Logan’s art has changed since his 2018 show
  • 14:30 – What a Logan’s process looks like when there isn’t external pressure from deadlines
  • 17:45 – Logan’s doodling process
  • 19:45 – The need for action
  • 23:30 – How Logan deals with the fact that unique art will be judged
  • 27:45 – Discussing perfection and how boring it is
  • 28:45 – Who Logan admires
  • 31:15 – Discussing Georgia O’Keefe
  • 32:45 – Discussing Logan’s life in Ojai
  • 40:00 – The importance of retreat for Logan’s art
  • 42:00 – The impact of self-talk
  • 44:30 – Discussing the new gallery
  • 47:45 – Logan’s book and artist recommendations

Information Referenced:



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Dr. Emily Howe – The Interconnectedness of Mountains, Forests, Rivers, and Estuaries

Dr. Emily Howe
Photo Credit: University of Washington’s Snow Project

Dr. Emily Howe is an aquatic ecologist with the Washington state chapter of The Nature Conservancy, and she holds a Ph.D. from the School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences at the University of Washington. Her work integrates across ecosystem boundaries, investigating how landscape configuration and management shape cross-boundary relationships for food webs, organisms, and ecosystem processes. 

At the Nature Conservancy, Emily’s projects stretch from the high peaks of the North Cascades all the way down to the estuary of Port Susan Bay, and her work highlights the interconnectedness of everything from snowpack to salmon populations, forest management to marsh grass health. Much of Emily’s work focuses on understanding liminal spaces– areas in nature where boundaries blend together and where the interactions between ecosystems can be fluid and dynamic. 

Since the earliest days of European settlement, this area has been subject to a wide variety of threats to the overall ecosystem—aggressive logging, wildfire suppression, attempts to engineer order into the ever-changing estuaries, and more. And with the intensification of climate change, snowfall and its resulting snowpack have decreased, which only exacerbates the negative effects and threats to the ecosystem.

But thanks to Emily and her team of stakeholders and partners, there are many, many reasons to be optimistic about the future. Combining cutting-edge science with Indigenous knowledge, Emily and TNC are making great progress toward finding solutions that can help with everything from increasing the depth and duration of snowpack in the Cascades to restoring all-important salmon habitat, and much much more.

If you’re a fan of ecology and are interested in how Indigenous wisdom can bolster our 21st-century scientific knowledge, then you’ll love this episode. We start our conversation at sea level, discussing the magic of the tidal ecosystems, then work our way up the into mountains, eventually discussing all things snowpack and forest health.  We talk about TNC’s partnership with the Stilliguamish Tribe, how forest gaps can affect snowpack, snow droughts and El Nino, collaboration with federal agencies, and rising sea levels in the Northwest.  Emily also talks about her career path to becoming a scientist and she offers up some excellent book recommendations.

I love the Pacific Northwest, so I greatly appreciate everything that Emily and her partners are doing to keep this region of the West so wild, special, and healthy.  I hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy and the University of Washington’s Snow Project.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:45 – Discussing the history Port Susan Bay Preserve
  • 8:15 – The colonial reasons for the “straightening out” of the complex Stille River System
  • 11:15 – Why TNC became interested in Port Susan Bay
  • 13:15 – Emily’s focus on the Port Susan Bay Preserve
  • 17:15 – Emily’s partnership with Tribal entities around Port Susan Bay Preserve
  • 21:45 – Where and how TNC partners with the federal government on its work on the coast
  • 26:15 – Goals for the Port Susan Bay Preserve
  • 32:30 – How fast the sea level is rising in the Port Susan Bay Preserve
  • 34:15 – The 2015 Pacific Northwest snow drought
  • 38:15 – Emily’s involvement in higher elevation forest management and how it can impact snowpack and water resources
  • 45:00 – Putting Emily’s work above to practice
  • 52:30 – Emily’s personal journey to this work
  • 56:30 – Emily’s book recommendations
  • 1:02:00 – Emily’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Sterling Drake – Roots Music, Ranching, and Giving Back

Sterling Drake

Sterling Drake is an award-winning musician whose soulful tunes reflect his deep love of the landscapes, people, and culture of the American West. The media outlet Lonesome Highway probably best described Sterling’s music by calling it a “perfect fusion of western swing, honky-tonk heartache, and dance hall treasures.” But you can’t really confine Sterling’s music to a single, overarching category– his influences range from country to folk to blues [and more], and he’s toured everywhere from rural Montana to the swamps of South Florida to the music epicenter of Nashville, Tennesse. And it’s those wide-ranging experiences and influences that make him such a fascinating and thoughtful character and such a fun person to talk with.

Sterling’s family has roots in the southeastern U.S., and he was born and raised in Florida. Music was always a big part of his life, but his early interests revolved around the hardcore music scene and his love of drumming. Soon after graduating high school, he decided to head out west, where he began a long stretch of working on various ranches in several different states. Over time, his musical focus shifted from the hardcore world into the roots genre, and he began to capture the attention of audiences at bars, rodeos, and everywhere in between. Today, Sterling is a full-time touring musician, and as I record this, he is preparing for his first European tour. In my mind, Sterling is a perfect example of how a person can successfully meld passion, curiosity, hard work, and respect to create an entirely unique brand of art that resonates with a large, thoughtful audience.  

I met Sterling last summer at the 2023 Old Salt Festival in Helmville, Montana, and I was instantly struck by his thoughtfulness, sense of humor, and his desire to contribute to the culture of the American West.  So I was glad to finally connect with him for a podcast episode and have an in-depth conversation about his artistic journey. We started out talking about his upbringing in Florida and why he eventually decided to head west. We discuss his time working on ranches, lessons learned from living and working in Nashville, and why he continues to be drawn to Montana. We discuss his most recent EP titled Jereco Sessions, and why he decided to donate all of the proceeds of that project to the nonprofit Western Landowners Alliance. We also discuss Willie Nelson, books, martial arts, straight-edge culture, travel, and much, much more.

If you want to see Sterling perform in person and have a chance to hang out with him, I’d encourage you to come to this summer’s Old Salt Festival, which is taking place June 21-23 in Helmville, Montana. Both Sterling and I will be there, and we’re both looking forward to what is guaranteed to be an amazing weekend.

Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Sterling Drake


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 5:00 – Sterling’s first memory of music
  • 7:45 – Reflecting on Sterling’s childhood in Florida
  • 11:00 – How Sterling became interested in the West, and further discussing Sterling’s upbringing
  • 14:30 – Sterling’s time in Utah
  • 17:30 – Where Sterling’s work ethic comes from
  • 20:00 – How music played into Sterling’s early years out West
  • 22:00 – A brief discussion of martial arts and its impact on Sterling’s life
  • 25:45 – Sterling’s shift into country music
  • 28:15 – When Sterling’s country career started to take off
  • 33:15 – Sterling’s insider take on the Nashville music industry
  • 40:45 – How Sterling became involved with WLA
  • 44:15 – Discussing Sterling’s recent/upcoming album cover
  • 45:15 – Sterling’s upcoming European tour
  • 46:45 – Looking forward to Old Salt Festival
  • 52:30 – Where Sterling may eventually choose to settle down
  • 54:00 – Sterling’s advice to early career professionals and aspiring artists
  • 1:00:30 – Sterling’s book recommendations
  • 1:03:45 – Sterling’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Kevin Krasnow – Keeping Jackson Hole Wild and Beautiful

Kevin Krasnow

Kevin Krasnow is the Conservation Director at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance, a long-standing, highly effective organization whose mission is to “protect the wildlife, wild places, and community character of Jackson Hole.” For more than four decades, the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance has been a staunch advocate for keeping Jackson Hole wild and beautiful, and it has proven to be a nimble and creative protector of the legendary Wyoming valley. The organization has served as a watchdog against poorly planned development, a champion for public land, a community voice that holds elected officials accountable, and much more.

Kevin brings a fascinating and diverse professional background to his work at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance– he’s worked as an Outward Bound instructor, a high school teacher, a college professor, and, most notably, he earned a Ph.D. in Environmental Science, Policy, and Management from the University of California Berkley. Prior to joining the team at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance, he worked for ten years at the Teton Science Schools in Jackson. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Kevin is a high-level expert in forest and wildfire ecology, and he speaks eloquently about the role of wildfires in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and beyond. 

When I first headed out West from North Carolina nearly twenty years ago, I moved to Jackson Hole— and I will always have a tender spot in my heart for that particular area. So I was thrilled to have the opportunity to connect with Kevin and talk about all things related to ecology, wildlife, fire, and conversation in Jackson Hole. We started with a deep dive into Aspen trees, and why they are such an important and unique part of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. We discussed the Yellowstone Fire of 1988 and how that disaster shaped forest management in the future. We discussed the unprecedented development pressure in and around Jackson, how Kevin and his organization collaborate with a wide range of conservation partners, his professional journey from indirect to direct conservation work, and how his career as an educator informs his work today.

If you’ve ever spent time in the Tetons, Yellowstone, or the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, then you’re going to learn a lot from Kevin. Please check out the notes below for a full list of everything we discuss, and I hope you enjoy!

Header photo courtesy of TNC: “Reflective Waters on Jackson Lake.” © Andrew Underwood; Headshot courtesy of Kevin Krasnow


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Discussing Aspen trees and how they captured Kevin’s attention
  • 9:30 – Threats to Aspen populations
  • 13:30 – Looking at the Yellowstone Fire of 1988
  • 24:00 – How significantly forestry and attitudes toward fire have changed after the Yellowstone Fire of 1988 
  • 28:30 – What brought Kevin to the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance 
  • 31:00 – Whether or not COVID has impacted the urgency of JHCA’s work
  • 35:15 – What specific problems Kevin works on at JHCA 
  • 39:15 – How Kevin and JHCA have collaborated with The Nature Conservancy
  • 43:00 – Kevin’s switch from “indirect” conservation to “direct”
  • 45:00 – When the outdoors became a part of Kevin’s life
  • 47:15 – Kevin’s early career in experiential education, and how it benefits his career now
  • 52:30 – Kevin’s words for a young person looking for career advice
  • 55:00 – Kevin’s book recommendations
  • 58:15 – Kevin’s parting words of wisdom, and how folks can support JHCA

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids

Mike DeHoff and Meg Flynn
(Photo by Elliot Ross)

Mike DeHoff is the Principal Investigator at Returning Rapids Project, a one-of-a-kind initiative that is documenting the recovery of the Colorado River in Cataract Canyon, upper Glen Canyon, and along the San Juan. Back in 1963, the construction of Glen Canyon Dam created Lake Powell, which submerged many of the area’s canyons– turning what were once wild stretches of the Colorado into flat water. Today, the southwest’s ongoing historic drought has caused Lake Powell’s water levels to to drop significantly, revealing historic rapids, recently hidden geologic features, and riparian ecosystems that had been deep underwater for nearly fifty years.  

The Research Team: Mike, Meg, Chris, and Peter (photo by Cody Cobb)

Returning Rapids began as a personal project for Mike and three of his river-loving friends– Meg Flynn, Peter Lefebvre, and Chris Benson. They began to notice changes in the river created by Lake Powell’s receding waters and started documenting those changes and using historic photographs and documents to better understand the reemerging landscape. Over the years, their work caught the attention of universities, academics, scientists, and government agencies, all of whom were fascinated by what was being discovered deep in those canyons. Fast forward to today, and their work is not only enabling cutting-edge research but also capturing the attention of bigtime media outlets, including a recent feature in Rolling Stone.

Mike connected with me virtually from his home base in Moab, Utah, and we had a fascinating discussion about the Colorado River, Lake Powell, and the history of the Returning Rapids project. We started out with a brief history lesson on the drought’s effect on the Colorado River, then we dug into issues such as the mind-blowing amount of sediment created by Glen Canyon Dam. We discussed when Mike and his partners realized that their personal project was capturing the attention of the public, the challenges of garnering attention for lesser-known places like Cataract Canyon, and the idea of combining Lake Powell and Lake Mead. We also talk a lot about Mike’s personal journey with this project, and how his willingness to follow his curiosity, partner with very smart people, take risks, and work extremely hard has had a significant scientific impact. We also discuss books, his mentors, his desire to learn from everyone he meets, and much more.

A huge thanks to Mike, Meg, Peter, and Chris for their important work, and for providing such a solid example for all of us who feel drawn to make a difference here in the American West. You can support Returning Rapids

Header photo by Travis Custer, photo of Mike and Meg by Elliot Ross, team photo by Cody Cobb


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.

To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.

Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.

To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – The drought of the early 2000s and how it started a 20+ year journey for Mike
  • 16:30 – How an entire land mass of Colorado River sediment can be created with no one claiming management or responsibility of it
  • 21:30 – When Mike’s project shifted from a personal interest to an interest of the public
  • 26:15 – The surprising rate that Lake Powell and Cataract Canyon are capable of recovering
  • 34:30 – How Mike garners attention for lesser-known but important places like Cataract Canyon
  • 37:15 – Discussing the idea of combining Lake Powell and Lake Meade
  • 44:15 – Mike’s advice for people wanting to do something similar to he and his team
  • 47:30 – Mike’s powerful appreciation for the people he meets, and his mentors and heroes
  • 50:30 – Mike’s book recommendations
  • 53:45 – Mike’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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SHED SESSION: Seven Must-Read Books That You May Not Know About

An excerpt from my most recent Shed Session episode, highlighting seven of my favorite books that you may have never heard of.

To listen to the full episode and all future Shed Sessions, become a Patreon supporter.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/shed-session-you-97515649

Live at the Amon Carter Museum – In Conversation with James Prosek and Spencer Wigmore

Second Thursday, January 11, 2024: Spencer Wigmore, James Prosek, and Ed Roberson

This is a special live episode that was recorded at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art in Fort Worth, Texas. The event was centered around the museum’s ongoing exhibition titled Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie, and the episode features a fascinating on-stage conversation with artist and past podcast guest James Prosek and art curator Spencer Wigmore

Trespassers is an exhibit about grasslands– specifically, James examines how we think about and define America’s imperiled prairie ecosystem. Over the course of more than two years, James traveled throughout Texas and the Southern Plains, visiting private ranches and urban restoration sites, and he was often accompanied by some of Texas’s most well-renowned grasslands experts. He investigated ideas around how our man-made boundaries and concepts attempt to define grasslands, and how grasslands often do not conform to our desires to control them. He examines ideas around fire, species classification, conservation, and natural history, and the end result is a collection of more than twenty mind-blowing paintings and sculptures.

As the curator for this exhibit, Spencer played a very unique role throughout the entire project– he was the one who initially approached James with the idea, he accompanied James on many of his grasslands road trips, and he even arranged the exhibit in its stunning space within the museum. So I loved learning about the collaboration between artist and curator, how they complimented each other’s personalities, and how they ultimately worked together to bring this spectacular collection of meaningful art into the world.

As you probably remember from my first podcast conversation with James, he’s a deep thinker who has spent his entire career digging into the nuances of our natural world. And Spencer’s depth of understanding of art history and the artistic process– as well as his ability to communicate his knowledge in a fun and engaging way– is second to none.  So I know you’ll enjoy this conversation that covers everything from broad, big-picture ideas around the philosophies of defining species, all the way down to the details of how James created such intricate, delicate sculptures. Be sure to check out the episode notes below for a full list of everything we discussed.

The episode starts with a kind introduction from The Carter’s Manager of Adult Programming, Madeleine Fitzgerald and then James, Spencer, and I begin our conversation.  I hope you enjoy!


Photos of Trespassers:

All photos courtesy of The Amon Carter Museum of American Art


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – Welcome statements
  • 10:45 – How the Trespassers exhibition came about in Spencer’s mind, and how it landed for James
  • 19:15 – Comparing American grasslands to the Great Pyramids
  • 23:45 – James’ painting process
  • 29:15 – Spencer’s role as curator
  • 34:00 – Discussing the work Fort Worth Composition No. 1
  • 37:45 – Discussing James’ interest in silhouettes 
  • 42:30 – James’ use of bronze to depict burn logs
  • 47:00 – James’ clay flowers
  • 50:15 – The biggest surprise in this project for Spencer
  • 54:00  -What James has learned about grasslands since finishing the project
  • 1:01:15 – James’ read on the state of western grasslands conservation
  • 1:06:15 – James’ book recommendations 
  • 1:09:30 – How Spencer sets up the gallery space
  • 1:14:00 – Audience questions begin
  • 1:14:45 – Spencer’s and James’ relationship to Fort Worth, and whether or not they found remnant prairies there
  • 1:20:00 – Where Spencer and James feel the anti-fire bias came from?
  • 1:23:30 – Inquiring about the significance of a Rio Grande Cutthroat Trout in one of James’ works
  • 1:26:15 – Whether or not James or Spencer did some fly fishing as a part of their research for this project

Information Referenced:



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Ivy Spohnholz – Climate Solutions, Sustainable Fisheries, and Resilient Communities

Ivy Spohnholz
(credit Troy Bowler)

Ivy Spohnholz is the Alaska State Director at The Nature Conservancy, where she leads the organization’s critical work around climate solutions, sustainable fisheries, and resilient communities. Given its size, location, climate, demographics, and economics, Alaska presents a very unique blend of conservation challenges– challenges that can directly affect massive, landscape-scale ecosystems and the communities within them. We’ve rarely, if ever, dug into the details of conservation in Alaska on this podcast, so I was thrilled to have Ivy join me for such an in-depth conversation.

Ivy was born in a dry log cabin in the remote Wrangell Mountains, in what is now Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve. Her entire career has revolved around public service– she’s held leadership roles at the Salvation Army, University of Alaska Anchorage, Alaska Conservation Foundation, and Abused Women’s Aid in Crisis. She also served for more than six years in the Alaska House of Representatives, where she honed her skills as a pragmatic and effective problem solver. In the fall of 2022, she took the reins as TNC’s Alaska State Director and has been applying her skills as a leader and problem solver toward Alaska’s distinctive conservation challenges.

I’ve been lucky enough to visit Alaska on two separate occasions, and I’ve had some of the most formative experiences of my life in the Alaska Range. The size and scale of the mountains, valleys, and wildlife are so staggering that it’s impossible to visit Alaska without gaining a deep respect for both the landscapes and the people who live there. So, I was excited to have the opportunity to chat with Ivy about her adventurous upbringing in Alaska and her service-oriented career. We talk in detail about her unexpected entrance into politics and how she quickly learned to lead and navigate the law-making process as an elected official. We discuss TNC’s focus areas in Alaska, and we talk a lot about Bristol Bay and its ecological and economic significance in the world. As you’ve probably come to expect, we talk about the all-important power of relationships, and we also discuss the need to be practical and optimistic.

A big thank you to Ivy for taking the time to talk with me– I greatly appreciate all of the important work being done by TNC Alaska. Enjoy!

Header photo by Matthew Waliszek, hunting photo by Troy Bowler


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Ivy’s birth in a dry log cabin in the Wrangell Mountains
  • 7:15 – Ivy’s childhood
  • 10:15 – When Ivy left Alaska, and what brought her back
  • 12:00 – How serving others became a core part of Ivy
  • 17:00 – When Ivy became an elected official
  • 24:00 – Discussing the political landscape of Alaska
  • 28:15 – How Ivy became involved with TNC
  • 34:45 – Discussing TNC’s work in Alaska
  • 41:00 – How Ivy balances working urgently with the often slower pace of building relationships 
  • 46:30 – The importance of Bristol Bay
  • 52:00 – Potential future threats to Bristol Bay
  • 57:00 – The biggest surprise for Ivy in her work with TNC
  • 59:30 – Discussing “practical optimism”
  • 1:01:30 – Ivy’s book recommendations
  • 1:03:45 – Ivy’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Chad Ellis – On Leadership, Building Relationships, and Working for the Greater Good

Chad Ellis

Chad Ellis is the CEO of the Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT), which is one of the nation’s leading ag-focused conservation organizations. TALT’s mission is “To conserve the Texas heritage of agricultural lands, wildlife habitats, and natural resources,” but at its core, TALT’s work is built on the foundation of long-term, trusting, mutually respectful relationships. 

Given the small proportion of public lands in Texas compared to other western states, much of the responsibility for landscape-scale ecological health falls on the shoulders of private landowners. And since 2007, TALT has helped these landowners find ways to not only protect their family legacies, but to improve the overall quality of grasslands, water, air, and wildlife for all Texans.

Chad was raised in rural Texas, and from a very early age, he felt a deep connection to land, agriculture, and wildlife. While his entire career has been devoted to thoughtfully and effectively stewarding natural resources, you’ll quickly realize that at his core, Chad is a relationship builder. During his tenures at the NRSC, the Noble Research Institute, and now as the leader of TALT, Chad has implemented many cutting-edge conservation solutions– but, as you’ll hear him explain, none of these projects would be successful without solid, trusting relationships between all stakeholders.

Longtime listeners will recognize Chad from an earlier appearance on Mountain & Prairie– back in 2023, he was one of the panelists in an episode called “Landscape-Scale Management in a Private Land State,” which was recorded live at the Texas Chapter of the Wildlife Society’s annual meeting. In this episode, we dig more into Chad’s personal and professional journey in conservation– why he has devoted his career to such a challenging-yet-critical cause, and how he approaches his work from both practical and philosophical perspectives. We discuss his love of entrepreneurial approaches, his leadership style, mentors, the storied legacy of TALT’s founder Blair Fitzsimons, supporting the next generation of conservationists, his favorite books, and much more.

If you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to check out TALT’s website and follow its work on social media– TALT is a constant source of inspiration for me and all of the Western conservation community. Thanks for listening!

Photos courtesy of Chad Ellis and TALT


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:30 – Where Chad grew up
  • 7:45 – Chad’s work with PERC
  • 10:15 – Where Chad’s entrepreneurial background came from
  • 16:15 – How Chad moved up in the NRCS ranks
  • 18:45 – Chad’s time with Mobil Foundation
  • 21:45 – Chad’s personal vision
  • 24:30 – Chad’s motivation to strengthen people’s connection to the land, instead of just supporting the land itself
  • 27:15 – How Chad hires for a passionate team
  • 29:15 – Chad’s work securing federal funding
  • 32:45 – How Chad thinks about failure
  • 34:45 – How Chad presented his vision for TALT to an already accomplished director (Blair Fitzsimons)
  • 40:30 – Chad’s goal to support the next generation of conservationists
  • 44:30 – How Chad interprets the threats facing conservation in Texas
  • 51:30 – How Chad prioritizes his allocation of resources
  • 58:45 – Exploring Chad’s level of patience, as well as the various ways that people learn and work
  • 1:03:30 – The importance of relationships
  • 1:07:45 – Chad’s book recommendations
  • 1:09:15 – Chad’s parting words of advice

Information Referenced:



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Rick Wittenbraker – Humility, Generosity, and Building One-of-a-Kind Brands

Rick Wittenbraker

Rick Wittenbraker is the CMO of Howler Brothers, an Austin-based apparel company that creates some of the most unique, stylish, quirky, and highly functional outdoor clothing for adventurers of all stripes. In a little over a decade, Howler has firmly established itself as the go-to brand for anglers, surfers, travelers, and fun-seekers– the kind of people who value good times with good friends in cool places. 

Rick was born and raised in Texas, attended UT Austin, and spent the first years of his career in traditional businesses such as finance and sales. But in 2009, he joined an up-and-coming cooler company known as Yeti, and that is where Rick’s genius for storytelling really broke through. He eventually became Yeti’s VP of Marketing and was one of the major forces behind Yeti’s groundbreaking approach to building a brand through outside-the-box storytelling. Along the way, he met Howler Brother’s founders– Chase Heard and Andy Stepanian– and eventually decided to join them and apply his brand-building expertise toward expanding what is now known as The Howlerverse.

Rick has been a longtime mentor of mine, and I credit his wisdom and counsel as being one the main factors that have allowed me to build Mountain & Prairie from a silly little side project into my full-time job. And there are countless creatives and entrepreneurs who have a similar story of Rick generously taking an interest in their project, offering his hard-earned wisdom, and expecting nothing in return. So this episode with Rick was long overdue.

We recorded this in Austin, at the Howler Brothers HQ, and we covered a lot, including: Rick’s career path, lessons learned from living internationally, his philosophies around building authentic, completely original brands, his ever-present focus on generosity and humility, separating personal identity from brand identity, growing without abandoning core values, the spirit behind the Howler Brothers brand, the Howler Brothers book, some of his favorite books, and much more.

A big thanks to Rick for taking the time to chat with me, as well as for everything he’s done to help Mountain & Prairie grow and evolve over the years. Hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Rick Wittenbraker


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:00 – Rick’s childhood and what he wanted to be when he grew up
  • 9:15 – Rick’s first job out of college
  • 11:15 – Rick’s mentor in his first job
  • 14:45 – When Rick became interested in marketing
  • 18:00 – When Rick realized he and Yeti were onto something big
  • 20:45 – Inspirations for Rick’s style of marketing with Yeti, and why it works so well
  • 25:30 – Fun that Rick has had on the job
  • 27:45 – Why Rick decided to move along from Yeti
  • 29:45 – A bump in Rick’s career road
  • 31:15 – Balancing the merits of business ideas and businesses with the people who implement them
  • 38:00 – Describing Howler Bros.
  • 44:15 – How Howler Bros. balances their identity and values with the need for business growth
  • 46:15 – Separating personal identity from brand identity
  • 49:30 – Balancing initiative and recklessness as it pertains to business progress 
  • 51:30 – Where Rick’s generosity and willingness to help comes from
  • 54:00 – The future of Howler Bros.
  • 58:15 – Rick’s book recommendations
  • 1:03:00 – Rick’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin

This is a special live episode that was recorded in Austin, Texas, in November of 2023 at the 50th Anniversary Endangered Species Act Symposium. As you may know, 2023 marked 50 years since the passing of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), which is one the most influential and impactful pieces of conservation legislation in United States history. This symposium gathered together an impressive and wide range of ESA experts from governmental, non-profit, and for-profit organizations, and we spent the day discussing the ESA’s fascinating and complex past, present, and future. 

Photo by Brittany Wegner

In this episode, we’ll hear from four leaders who have worked in the trenches of conservation for decades, and each of them brings a unique perspective on both the challenges and opportunities that the ESA creates for on-the-ground conservation. The panelists are:

  • Gary Frazer – Assistant Director for Ecological Services at the US Fish and Wildlife Service
  • Peg Romanik – Recently retired high-ranking attorney from the Department of Interior
  • Jimmy Bullock – Senior Vice President at Resource Management Service LLC
  • Leo Miranda-Castro – Former USFWS Director and current Executive Director of Conservation without Conflict

All four of these distinguished panelists have worked extensively within the frameworks of the Endangered Species Act, and they bring a wealth of practical and philosophical knowledge about the ESA’s impact over the past 50 years… and its expected impacts in the future. But perhaps more importantly, these four panelists helped me to appreciate the humanity behind the historic, powerful legislation– the smart, dedicated, conservation-minded leaders whose work has allowed the act to effect change and evolve over the past five decades.

We covered a lot during this hour-long discussion, and highlights include: How the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach; concrete examples of productive, collaborative conservation; working with the extreme opinions about climate change; hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation; examining potential political threats to the ESA; the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation, advice for young people in the conservation field, and much more.  

This episode was the last panel discussion of the day, so if you’d like to listen to the first three panels, you can do so below. Those earlier sessions include discussions with everyone from one of the ESA’s authors to some of today’s most renowned conservation thought leaders– I really can’t imagine having a more impressive group of conservation practitioners in one room. You can check out the Symposium program, which includes all the details of the day’s event and speaker bios. 

And one more thing: This symposium was organized by the fellows of the James G. Teer Conservation Leadership Institute, which is sponsored by The Texas Chapter of The Wildlife Society. The mission of the Teer Institute is to ensure a future legacy of well-trained conservation leaders by providing professional training in leadership skills and contemporary conservation. I was so impressed with all the fellows and left this event feeling very optimistic about the future of conservation in Texas and beyond.

A huge thank you to the fellows and to Dr. Roel Lopez of Texas A&M University for inviting me down to Austin to moderate this panel. It was an honor to be in the same room with all these amazingly inspiring folks. Hope you enjoy!

All photos by Brittany Wegner

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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:00 – Introduction
  • 10:15 – Peg describes when the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach
  • 14:45 – Leo’s example of exceptional collaborative conservation
  • 21:00 – How Gary handles extreme opinions about climate change
  • 27:00 – Examples of Jimmy’s work with the ESA that became financially sustainable
  • 31:30 – Hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation
  • 34:45 – Examining the security of the ESA
  • 39:00 – Discussing the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation
  • 44:30 – The panel’s advice for young people in this field
  • 53:15 – Wrapping up and acknowledgments

Information Referenced:


Earlier Symposium Sessions

Session One – Past
Featuring Jimmy Bullock, Douglas Wheeler, Peg Romanik, and moderated by Roel Lopez
Session Two – Present
Featuring Terry Anderson, Ryan Orndorff, Bryan Arroyo, Dave Tenny, and moderated by Lindsay Martinez
Session Three – Future
Featuring Chad Ellis, Mike Brennan, Mike Leahy, Gian Basili, and moderated by Mike Marshall


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2023 Reads

A comprehensive list of every book I recommended in 2023, taken directly from my bimonthly book recommendations email.

Holding Fire: A Reckoning with the American West by Bryce Andrews – I’ve had the pleasure of getting to know Bryce over the past few years, and I am always impressed by his ability to balance being an impressively deep thinker with maintaining a proclivity for action. He’s not sitting around thinking for thinking’s sake– he thinks so that he can make solid choices and do good things. In this book, he thinks and writes about the history and modern-day culture of the American West, a landscape that he loves intensely. The story is centered around his complicated relationship with a .357 Smith & Wesson– a gun he inherited from his grandfather. Bryce takes the reader on a very personal journey, examining his family dynamics, mental health, and love of hunting and ranching. He also digs into broader historical and societal issues, including Manifest Destiny and tough-guy culture. Ultimately, his digging and thinking lead him to take action, melt down the .357, and hand-forge it into a tool for regenerative ranch work. A thought-provoking read. [Another thoughtful and personal book by a Missoula-area author is The River You Touch by Chris Dombrowski.]

Saving Us: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World by Katharine Hayhoe – Dr. Hayhoe dedicates this book “to everyone who believes the difficult issues in life are worth talking about,” which, statistics show, is the vast majority of Americans. Despite what the extreme edges of the political spectrum want us to believe, most folks want to learn, talk, and find common ground. Saving Us is less of a deep dive into climate science and more of a guidebook on how to have civil, productive, respectful conversations, no matter the topic. If facts, figures, and endless information could solve all our problems, we’d be living in a Garden-of-Eden-before-the-whole-apple-debacle utopia. As Dr. Hayhoe explains, statistics are worthless if we cannot communicate them across cultural/political/societal divides in an honest and civil manner. Thankfully, she’s figured out methods for having these challenging conversations, and she generously shares her techniques with us in this book. Highly recommended. [If you prefer listening to reading, check out my recent podcast conversation with Dr. Hayhoe. If you mute it when I talk, it’s an awesome discussion.]

Breathe: A Life in Flow by Rickson Gracie – Rickson is arguably the greatest all-around fighter in history, and the Gracie family is credited with transforming jiu-jitsu from an obscure martial art into the most effective fighting technique on earth. Breathe is the story of Rickson’s evolution as a fighter and human– from learning jiu-jitsu from his domineering father to being tested on the streets of Rio, from ascending the ranks of high-dollar professional fighting to becoming the patriarch of modern-day jiu-jitsu. He provides a fascinating glimpse into the culture of Brazil in the 70s and 80s, and an even more fascinating glimpse into the sometime-bizarre, insular, hyper-competitive culture of the Gracie family. Rickson is a complex dude, and this memoir reveals many conflicting– sometimes aggressively clashing– aspects of his personal operating system. He’s humble yet arrogant, compassionate yet violent, enlightened yet bullheaded, curious yet close-minded. Whaddaya know, he’s an imperfect human, just like me! [As I read about Hickson’s obsession with “respect,” I was constantly reminded of Tamler Sommers’ Why Honor Matters.]

The Book of Delights: Essays by Ross Gay – I would have never picked up this book had it not been sent to me by a good friend who oddly seems to know what I want/need to read before I do. I wish I could explain why this book is so special, but I can’t, so I’ll just say: “I loved it.” I caught myself smiling while I read it, even though my baseline expression is apparently a scowl. The book was just what I needed at this specific moment– optimistic, hilarious, incisive, insightful, and… sorry to do this… delightful. Gay is a poet by trade, so he has a way with words, but I most admire his commitment to forcing himself to focus on the positive. And not a Pollyanna, head-in-the-sand version of positive. Rather, he looks directly at the world’s imperfections and horrors, acknowledges them, feels them, and then continues on with his work of seeking out the delightful. [At times, Gay’s hilariously precise observations reminded me of David Sedaris, especially his When You Are Engulfed in Flames.]

Thinking Like Your Editor: How to Write Great Serious Nonfiction and Get It Published by Susan Rabiner and Alfred Fortunato – The subtitle pretty much sum it up. If you want to write a nonfiction book using traditional publishing methods, this is the instruction manual. Recommended to me by several published authors, Thinking Like Your Editor walks you through strategies and tactics that just might allow you to transform that seed of an idea in your brain into the intellectual property of a major publishing house. The book was published in 2002, so some of the specifics and references are a bit dated, but all the important stuff is still there. Note to self: Reading a book about writing a book doesn’t write the book. [Two excellent books about writing are On Writing by Stephen King and On Writing Well by William Zinsser.]

War by Sebastian Junger – If you’ve been following my recommendations for a while, then you’re probably sick and tired of my repeated touting of Junger’s Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging, which is one of the most impactful books I’ve read. War is the story that informed many of the foundational ideas in Tribe, and it details Junger’s time embedded with an Army platoon at a deadly outpost in the unforgiving mountains of Afghanistan. Yes, War is obviously about war, but to me, the book is more about the brotherhood that binds young men who find themselves united against a common enemy, surrounded by perpetual mind-scrambling danger, dependent on each other to stay alive. Junger does a masterful job helping someone like me (who never served) understand how war can be simultaneously miserable, addictive, and desirable, and why it has been such a right of passage for young men for as long as we humans have been fighting with each other. [To hear Junger discuss this topic for an hour, check out this podcast episode: Why Men Seek Danger.]

The Fixed Stars by Molly Wizenberg – When I read a memoir, I’m not looking for entertainment, I want to learn. And my favorite memoirs are those in which I share little in common with the author, yet their skill as a writer allows me to deeply connect with their story, understand their motivations and choices, and finish the book with a wider perspective or new way of looking at the world. I have very little interest in having my ideas confirmed or affirmed– I want to stretch and stress test my notions, to uncover any blatant holes in my thinking. So a huge thank you to the wonderful Molly Wizenberg for offering this raw, vulnerable, hopeful, and at times heartbreaking look into her life, one that made me think hard about the power of our self-imposed identities, personal evolution, and familial bonds. And while I would’ve enjoyed the book under any circumstances, it was an added bonus that Molly just so happens to be a fun, funny, and down-to-earth human. To hear for yourself, check out our podcast conversation.

The Martian by Andy Weir – I have no idea why this book popped into my consciousness or why it rose to the top of my way-too-long need-to-read list. But it did, and I’m glad, and I loved it. I read very few novels, I’m usually not a fan of science fiction, but this book had me locked in from the first few pages. The main character was legitimately hilarious, and, as far as I could tell, the details of the story seemed to be rooted in real-life science/physics/space/smart-people stuff. And as an added bonus, it’s written in a manner that flatters the ego of a not-so-smart liberal arts graduate like me by making me feel that I fully understand the physics of interplanetary rocket science. But I was especially intrigued by the backstory of the author and how he came to write such a runaway best-seller-turned-blockbuster movie. The book started out as a series of blog posts that he then turned into a $0.99 self-published ebook… and it took off from there. Fun book, fun backstory, highly recommended. [And speaking of action-packed novels, if you haven’t already, read The Painter by Peter Heller.]

Industrial Society and Its Future by FC aka Ted Kaczynski aka The Unabomber – In my seven and a half years of sending out these emails, this may seem like the strangest title I’ve recommended. But there’s no way around it– the “Unabomber Manifesto” is a thought-provoking read. While I admittedly have a tough time separating the book’s ideas from its author, there are several sections that are amazingly prescient to today’s headlines around polarized politics and exponentially advancing technology. But unfortunately for Kaczynski, his sometimes-impressive premonitions and theories aren’t good for much other than serving as a kind of historical sideshow spectacle. Rather than using his exceptional intellectual horsepower to actually effect change, he chose to sit in a cabin alone for 20 years, fuming about how things ought to be, and occasionally lashing out violently. While Kaczynski seemed to believe the was some sort of revolutionary– the hero of his own story– I see his life as a cautionary tale of wasted potential, delusions of grandeur, and the murky gray area that can sometimes separate genius and insanity.

Crow Fair, Gallatin Canyon, and Cloudbursts by Thomas McGuane – As you can see, I’m going deep down the rabbit hole of McGuane short stories, and I’m loving it. With these three collections, I’ve been happily jumping from book to book, story to story, and have yet to finish them all. There’s nothing I can write here that would do justice to McGuane’s skill as a storyteller– let’s just say he’s a literary genius and leave it at that. But what really intrigues me about him is the intensity and single-mindedness that he seems to bring to all aspects of his life– from writing to fishing to roping and everything in between. And how he transformed from a singularly focused, straight-laced aspiring novelist into a Key West wild man known as “Captain Berserko” and then back again to a singularly focused wordsmith. Being blessed with an all-or-nothing personality myself, I’m always seeking guidance from those who have corralled that sometimes-challenging personality trait into something productive. While I haven’t discovered McGuane’s secret quite yet, I expect to have it all figured out once I’m through all these stories. Reasonable expectation, right? [Another collection I loved and revisit often is Chris la Tray’s One-Sentence Journal.]

Grizzly Years: In Search of the American Wilderness by Doug Peacock – From the earliest days of my podcast, guests have consistently recommended this book as a must-read about the American West. Now I understand why. It’s Peacock’s story of finding healing and purpose in the aftermath of the violence of the Vietnam War– an odyssey that began when he wandered into the backcountry of Yellowstone National Park while in the throes of a malaria-induced fever dream. When he came to, he was in the world of grizzlies, and– unlike me, who would’ve screamed and cried and run for my life– he stayed, forming a deep bond with the beautiful-but-deadly animals. Doug credits the grizzlies with saving his life, and he has spent the majority of his life entirely focused on protecting them. A must-read for anyone who loves the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, grizzlies, or purpose-driven humans. [Doug was the inspiration for the character Hayduke in his pal Ed Abbey’s classic The Monkey Wrench Gang.]

Was it Worth It? A Wilderness Warrior’s Long Trail Home by Doug Peacock – This is Peacock’s most recent book, a collection of some of his incredible adventures protecting wild places. From the deserts of North America to the wilds of Russia to the coasts of Central America and British Columbia, Peacock takes the reader to beautiful and sometimes-unforgiving landscapes– landscapes that would surely be ruined without the protection of eco-warriors like Peacock. While I loved the adventure stories, I was most struck by Peacock’s long-lasting friendships with many high-powered personalities– Yvon Chouinard, Jim Harrison, Ed Abbey, Rick Ridgeway, Doug Tompkins, and more. I’m fascinated by how that crew of rebellious legends fed off each other’s energy, increasing their impact both individually and collectively. Also, Was it Worth It? was published by Patagonia Books, so it’s jam-packed with stunning photos, making it more of a work of art than a simple book. [If you haven’t already, read Life Lived Wild by Rick Ridgeway, another beautiful book by a living legend.] [And here are my conversations with both Doug and Rick.]

River Teeth: Stories and Writings and My Story as Told by Water: Confessions, Druidic Rants, Reflections, Bird-watchings, Fish-stalkings, Visions, Songs and Prayers Refracting Light, From Living Rivers, in the Age of the Industrial Dark by David James Duncan – Back in 2002, I was headed off on my first big adventure in really big mountains. On the flight to Mendoza, my buddy handed me his tattered copy of The River Why and said: “Read this.” Who would’ve ever guessed that more than two decades after that initial cinematic introduction to the great David James Duncan, I’d be sitting on a stage with him, trying to ask coherent questions about his legendary life’s work? In preparation for my interview, I focused on these two collections of essays– powerful, vulnerable, sometimes-hilarious, sometimes-heartbreaking tales from his life of writing, activism, fishing, and deep thinking. Even though he’s operating on a much higher intellectual and spiritual plane than me, Duncan has the rare ability to make his nuanced, poetic ideas about place, spirituality, death, loss, and fly fishing enlightening, even to an averaged-brained human like me. I especially connected with Who Owns the West: Seven Wrong Answers, The Non Sense of Place, Beauty/Violence/Grief/Frenzy/Love: On the Contemplative Versus the Activist Life, and The Mickey Mantle Koan, but every single essay is worth multiple reads. [Duncan’s newest masterpiece, Sun House, will be published on 8/8– so be on the lookout for my Sun House recommendation and our podcast episode later this summer.]

Make It: 50 Myths and Truths about Creating by Brendan Leonard – Brendan is one of the most prolific artists I know, consistently cranking out an extremely high quality/quantity of books, essays, cartoons, films, and newsletters year after year after year. If you’re wondering how he does it, you’re in luck– in this new book, he shares 50 ideas about the creative process. Combining his cartoons with hilariously insightful essays– with the occasional F word thrown in for emphasis– Brendan destroys the nonsensical excuses that people like me use to talk themselves out of doing creative work. According to Brendan, it’s a “polite but firm kick in the ass” to help people get going. And not that Brendan needs my endorsement, but I credit his example and approach with helping me to transform my little creative side projects into a full-time job. Great book. It’ll make you make. [Another excellent book on this subject is Seth Godin’s The Practice.]

A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World: Tales for Fire, Wind, and Water by David Gessner – And speaking of prolific, David Gessner is back! This time, his focus is climate change. A dour topic for sure, but, as we’ve come to expect from Gessner, he injects humor and wit into all of his writing, which makes the medicine go down a little smoother. A Traveler’s Guide chronicles his journeys around the country, where he finds himself in a variety of climate disasters– from historic forest fires in the American West to hurricanes on North Carolina’s Outer Banks. Eschewing the ubiquitous facts, figures, and policy debates that often dominate climate-focused books, David does what he does best: he tells stories. Specifically, he tells impactful, insightful stories from the front lines of the climate crisis– stories that are still rattling around in my head weeks later and have even caught the attention of the Washington Post and Independent. [Another recent non-facts-and-figures climate change book I enjoyed was Saving Us by Dr. Katharine Hayhoe.] [And if you want to hear the authors discuss these climate-focused books, you can listen to my podcasts with David and Katharine.]

The Song of Significance: A New Manifesto for Teams by Seth Godin – I read everything Seth Godin writes. Of all his most recent books, this one is probably the least applicable to my life and work, as it is about working on teams within organizations– but I still gleaned great value from it. Thankfully, I’ve managed to escape the nightmarish dystopian hellscape that is Zoom and Slack, but amazingly, Seth seems to have figured out how to use those tools to actually bring out the best in people. Written in the same structure as many of Seth’s most recent books, it’s 100+ quick-but-powerful chapters that will help leaders ensure their teams are empowered, confident, satisfied, and content with their jobs. And please note, I did not write “feel empowered”– Seth wants them to actually be empowered. What an outlandish, non-MBA approach to leadership! [The best organizational leadership book I’ve ever read is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin.]

I’m currently in the depths of a personal writing project that has me skimming through some of my favorite funny memoirs and non-fiction writing. I’ve laughed hysterically at The Sex Lives of Cannibals and Getting Stoned with Savages by J. Marteen Troost, When You Are Engulfed in Flames by David Sedaris, A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson, Jaguars Ripped My Flesh by Tim Cahill, and The Selected Columns of Carl Hiaasen. I also just started The World’s Largest Man by Harrison Scott Key, and it’s hilarious. Please let me know if you know of other laugh-out-loud non-fiction writers that I may be missing.

Call Sign Chaos: Learning to Lead by Jim Mattis and Bing West – An acquaintance of mine who I greatly admire named his first son Mattis, so that was all the encouragement I needed to read this book. It’s the General’s memoir, covering his life as a wild, trouble-making teen through his highly accomplished career as a Marine and public servant. When it came to serving his country, Mattis was all in– he never married, maniacally read and studied history, and was intimately involved in almost all of the major military events of the past 30+ years. He earned the respect of both his superiors and subordinates and is rightly considered one of the military’s most effective leaders in recent history. I loved Mattis’s focus on reading (“If you haven’t read hundreds of books, you are functionally illiterate…”), and I was intrigued by the constant friction between the paper pushers in Washington and the soldiers on the ground in war zones. I was also fascinated by his ideas about managing crises vs. eliminating them, and his frustrations whenever politics thwarted his ability to achieve his military objectives. I loved this book. [One of my other favorite memoirs is Shoe Dog by Phil Knight.]

Leadership Strategy and Tactics: Field Manual by Jocko Willink – This was the sole remaining leadership book by Jocko that I had yet to read, and I cranked through it in a day. Jocko has the rare ability to write in a clear, not-fancy, easy-to-understand style, yet his paragraphs still manage to carry a ton of weight. The purpose of this book is to clearly and simply provide actionable wisdom on leadership– specific methods to overarching ideologies that can be applied anywhere from the battlefield to the family dining room table. Despite his warrior pedigree and tough-guy veneer, his approach to leadership is much more Dalai Lama than General MacArthur– he emphasizes listening, abolishing ego, building relationships, being of service to subordinates, and letting go of control. A worthwhile read for leaders of all stripes. [Jocko’s Extreme Ownership is one of the most perspective-shifting books I’ve ever read.]

Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior by Chögyam Trungpa – This was the second book I ever read about Buddhist philosophy. I bought it immediately after my first mediation workshop at the Shambhala Center, the organization founded by Trungpa. Very little of it made sense to me when I read it back in 2012, but this time around, with dozens of Eastern philosophy books and hundreds of hours of meditation under my belt, it struck a much stronger chord. The basic idea (as I understand it) is that true contentment and peace cannot be found externally, only through nurturing our minds with curiosity and compassion. A decade ago, I would’ve laughed out loud at the preceding spiritual-mumbo-jumbo sentence, but thanks to books like this, I really do believe that mumbo-jumbo to be true. [The first Buddhism-focused book I ever read was The Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama.]

Don’t Bite the Hook by Finding Freedom from Anger, Resentment, and Other Destructive Emotions by Pema Chodron (audiobook) – I estimate that I’ve listened to this book at least 20 times, two of those being during the past month. The subtitle gives you all the information you need to know about its topic, but I’ll use this recommendation to once again proclaim: Pema Chodron is one of the wisest humans walking the earth today. I love everything she writes, and I love listening to her lecture even more. I’ve never met her, I’m not a Buddhist, nor do I have any plans to convert, but I still consider her one of my greatest teachers. [Another Pema audiobook that I’ve had on rotation for many years is Smile at Fear.]

The 5 Second Rule: Transform your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins (audiobook) – One of my reading goals for 2023 was to avoid self-help books like the plague. But the Algorithmic Overlords started feeding me clips of the unmistakably tough-talking, no-nonsense Mel Robbins, and before I knew what had happened, I was listening to this audiobook on one of my many long drives. As much as I hate to admit it, I think Mel is on to something here, at least when it comes to my problem with procrastination. Basically, she’s extolling the virtues of quickly and aggressively breaking the inertia of fear/laziness/stalling, then immediately forcing yourself to simply start working. None of this is new, and all of it is simple and unsurprising. But implementing these tactics can be surprisingly difficult, a fact that she seems to enjoy repeating. I’m not sure if it’s Mel’s ingratiating midwestern accent or her charismatic repackaging of age-old ideas, but I’ve been counting to five and getting to work and feeling better about myself, so I won’t ask to many questions and will just go with it. [The Art of Taking Action by Gregg Krech is a different version of the same idea with a wildly different tone.]

Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: And Other Tough-Love Truths to Make You a Better Writer by Steven Pressfield – Later this week, I’ll be pointing my truck westward and heading to Vernal, Utah, which is the launching point for my first-ever course as an instructor with the Freeflow Institute. We’ll be exploring how to use storytelling as a tool to effect change, and how to respectfully capture people’s attention in an increasingly loud and mostly annoying media landscape. My first assignment to the students was this straight-to-the-point book, a book selection that very well may have caused s few of them to question their teacher’s judgment and their own decision to attend the workshop. Anyway, I live by Pressfield’s foul-mouthed credo, and I fully embrace the fact that no one is going to beat down the door to listen to my podcast, read my writing, or subscribe to my emails– it’s on me to make something that is worth consuming and sharing. [Pressfield’s Turning Pro also packs a punch.]

Call an Audible: Let My Pivot from Harvard Law to NFL Coach Inspire Your Transition by Daron K. Roberts – I’ve been a loyal subscriber to Coach Roberts’ weekly email for several years, and I’m always happy to see his name show up in my inbox every Wednesday. Both Daron and his writing are funny, no-nonsense, inspiring, and practical. I’d been wanting to read his memoir for quite some time now, and I’m do glad I finally did. The book follows his journey from growing up in small-town Texas to Student Body President at the University of Texas to student at Harvard Law School. And as the subtitle explains, upon graduating from Harvard, he took an aggressive turn off the beaten path and focused his overflowing energy on becoming an NFL coach. My takeaways from Daron’s professional odyssey are: 1) He was not above performing even the most menial, ego-challenging tasks, 2) He understood the importance of building solid relationships up and down the chain of command, 3) He would respectfully not take no for an answer, and 4) He was willing to work harder than his competition. Daron’s story will resonate with anyone who has followed (or dreams of following) an unconventional path. [Speaking of football, Monte Burke’s Saban is excellent.]

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside by Nick Offerman – You probably know Nick from his portrayal of Ron Swanson on NBC’s Parks and Recreation, but that legendary performance is only the tip of the iceberg– he’s a master woodworker, disciple of Wendell Berry, traveling humorist, regenerative agriculture advocate, and voracious reader, just to name a few. In this, his newest book, he explores ideas around conservation, land stewardship, and responsible, thoughtful living through a series of adventures and misadventures in the American West and English countryside. Combining his insatiable curiosity with his unmistakable humor, the book is basically a blueprint for how to be kind (i.e., not a jerk), thoughtful (i.e., not a shallow-thinking idiot), humble (i.e., not a narcissist), and a hard worker (i.e., not a lazy slob). In September of 2023, this book was named The Official Mountain & Prairie Guide to Life (by me). [To hear Nick and I discuss the book, as well as more obscure topics such as “old Superman,” check out our recent podcast conversation.]

Paddle Your Own Canoe: One Man’s Fundamentals for Delicious Living by Nick Offerman – This was Nick’s first foray into the publishing world– and also his first of five appearances on the New York Times bestseller list. Published back in 2013, it’s his life story spanning from his youth in a small, tight-knit Midwestern community up to when he “made it” as an actor after nearly 20 years of grinding on the lower rungs of show business. Nick is hilariously self-deprecating and not at all impressed by fame or wealth, which makes this memoir an even more refreshing and inspirational read. Funny stories, insightful wisdom, and applicable life lessons– there’s value for anyone who places a premium on being a good person. Oh, and Nick narrates all of his audiobooks, as well as three of Wendell Berry’s. So, despite my preference for paper, I can wholeheartedly recommend the audio versions of everything he’s involved with. [I also enjoyed a smattering of chapters from Nick’s book Gumption, particularly Frederick Douglass, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jeff Tweedy, and Conan O’Brien.]

The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance by Rebecca Clarren – There are plenty of books lining the shelves that follow worn-out, not-productive approaches to reckoning with horrors of the past. Some purposefully ignore facts, some blindly and perpetually cast blame, and others self-flagellate into absurdity. The Cost of Free Land is not one of those books. Rebecca takes a nuanced, clear-eyed approach to understanding her family’s complex history– they fled anti-Semitism in Russia and established a new life on the plains of South Dakota, eventually finding success as land-and-business owners. But her family’s success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Combining vulnerable family memoir with deeply researched history, Rebecca digs into her family’s complicated past, and then digs into her own Jewish faith to find a productive, healing path forward. I loved it. A must-read. [Another powerful examination of family and brutal history is Sugar in the Blood by Andrea Stuart.]

Wild New World: The Epic Story of Animals and People in America by Dan Flores – I read everything Dan Flores writes. No matter how micro or macro the subject, he presents his narrative in an engaging style that makes hardcore history read like a fast-paced novel. This book definitely falls into the “macro” category– it’s a “big history” covering the past 66 million years of life here on good ol’ Planet Earth. Most of the book is devoted to humans’ relatively brief reign as the apex predator of the world, with an emphasis on just how drastically we have altered the landscapes, flora, and fauna of North America during that short time. But this is not a gloom-and-doom, humans-ruined-the-planet, all-is-lost kind of book. Rather, it’s a realistic accounting of our past that ends with an optimistic appraisal of our current trajectory into the future. [To better understand some of the people and legislation that put us on our current trajectory, read Douglas Brinkley’s Silent Spring Revolution.]

Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – Losing Eden is definitely one of my most-often recommended books. But despite its being my absolute favorite overview of conservation and environmentalism in the West, the original edition never seemed to reach a broad audience. Thankfully that’s changing, because University of Nebraska Press bought the rights, Sara updated the book, and the end result is an even more substantial tome, complete with new photos, maps, and suggested reading lists. The book’s new format and the new publisher’s willingness to promote it– not to mention Sara’s appearances in the new Ken Burns documentary– will get this very important book into the hands of a much, much larger audience.

The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years by Vincent Stanley with Yvon Chouinard – I’ve been a Patagonia customer for nearly 30 years, but it wasn’t until I was enrolled in grad school earning my MBA that I began studying Patagonia’s business philosophies. On my own time, I read Yvon’s classic Let My People Go Surfing, which aggressively contradicted much of the standard business instruction I was receiving in the classroom. I often say that a tiny Milton Friedman was whispering his shareholder-value philosophies in one ear, and a tiny Yvon was ranting about responsibility into the other. Ultimately, Yvon won that battle, but I had much more to learn. That’s why I loved this book– it’s a quick-but-effective recap of Patagonia’s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, combined with actionable steps that any company or entrepreneur can follow to be more responsible and deliberate– while still turning a healthy profit. [Vincent is an amazing thinker, doer, writer, and speaker, so you might enjoy my recent podcast conversation with him.]

Trusting the Gold: Uncovering Your Natural Goodness by Tara Brach – My guru recommended that I read this book. It was a prescription of sorts, one that was intended to help me lighten up, to quit being so hard on myself. To find a Zen-like approach to internal motivation that does not involve mental beatdowns and comically brutal self-talk. Tara is both a renowned meditation teacher and a highly trained PhD psychologist, so, if anybody can help me break my unproductive self-bullying habits, it’s her. I’ve been reading a chapter or two before bed (each chapter is three pages max), and, I have to say, I’ve been lightening up a bit. Of course that could be related to the daily meditation, excessive exercise, ice baths, breath holds, guru sessions, fasting, or any number of weird “self-care” protocols– but for the purpose of this email, I’ll give 85% of the credit to Tara and her excellent book. [I’ve also been a longtime fan of Tara’s classic book Radical Acceptance.]

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside by Nick Offerman – You probably know Nick from his portrayal of Ron Swanson on NBC’s Parks and Recreation, but that legendary performance is only the tip of the iceberg– he’s a master woodworker, disciple of Wendell Berry, traveling humorist, regenerative agriculture advocate, and voracious reader, just to name a few. In this, his newest book, he explores ideas around conservation, land stewardship, and responsible, thoughtful living through a series of adventures and misadventures in the American West and English countryside. Combining his insatiable curiosity with his unmistakable humor, the book is basically a blueprint for how to be kind (i.e., not a jerk), thoughtful (i.e., not a shallow-thinking idiot), humble (i.e., not a narcissist), and a hard worker (i.e., not a lazy slob). In September of 2023, this book was named The Official Mountain & Prairie Guide to Life (by me). [To hear Nick and I discuss the book, as well as more obscure topics such as “old Superman,” check out our recent podcast conversation.]

Paddle Your Own Canoe: One Man’s Fundamentals for Delicious Living by Nick Offerman – This was Nick’s first foray into the publishing world– and also his first of five appearances on the New York Times bestseller list. Published back in 2013, it’s his life story spanning from his youth in a small, tight-knit Midwestern community up to when he “made it” as an actor after nearly 20 years of grinding on the lower rungs of show business. Nick is hilariously self-deprecating and not at all impressed by fame or wealth, which makes this memoir an even more refreshing and inspirational read. Funny stories, insightful wisdom, and applicable life lessons– there’s value for anyone who places a premium on being a good person. Oh, and Nick narrates all of his audiobooks, as well as three of Wendell Berry’s. So, despite my preference for paper, I can wholeheartedly recommend the audio versions of everything he’s involved with. [I also enjoyed a smattering of chapters from Nick’s book Gumption, particularly Frederick Douglass, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jeff Tweedy, and Conan O’Brien.]

The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance by Rebecca Clarren – There are plenty of books lining the shelves that follow worn-out, not-productive approaches to reckoning with horrors of the past. Some purposefully ignore facts, some blindly and perpetually cast blame, and others self-flagellate into absurdity. The Cost of Free Land is not one of those books. Rebecca takes a nuanced, clear-eyed approach to understanding her family’s complex history– they fled anti-Semitism in Russia and established a new life on the plains of South Dakota, eventually finding success as land-and-business owners. But her family’s success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Combining vulnerable family memoir with deeply researched history, Rebecca digs into her family’s complicated past, and then digs into her own Jewish faith to find a productive, healing path forward. I loved it. A must-read. [Another powerful examination of family and brutal history is Sugar in the Blood by Andrea Stuart.]

Wild New World: The Epic Story of Animals and People in America by Dan Flores – I read everything Dan Flores writes. No matter how micro or macro the subject, he presents his narrative in an engaging style that makes hardcore history read like a fast-paced novel. This book definitely falls into the “macro” category– it’s a “big history” covering the past 66 million years of life here on good ol’ Planet Earth. Most of the book is devoted to humans’ relatively brief reign as the apex predator of the world, with an emphasis on just how drastically we have altered the landscapes, flora, and fauna of North America during that short time. But this is not a gloom-and-doom, humans-ruined-the-planet, all-is-lost kind of book. Rather, it’s a realistic accounting of our past that ends with an optimistic appraisal of our current trajectory into the future. [To better understand some of the people and legislation that put us on our current trajectory, read Douglas Brinkley’s Silent Spring Revolution.]

Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – Losing Eden is definitely one of my most-often recommended books. But despite its being my absolute favorite overview of conservation and environmentalism in the West, the original edition never seemed to reach a broad audience. Thankfully that’s changing, because University of Nebraska Press bought the rights, Sara updated the book, and the end result is an even more substantial tome, complete with new photos, maps, and suggested reading lists. The book’s new format and the new publisher’s willingness to promote it– not to mention Sara’s appearances in the new Ken Burns documentary– will get this very important book into the hands of a much, much larger audience.

The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years by Vincent Stanley with Yvon Chouinard – I’ve been a Patagonia customer for nearly 30 years, but it wasn’t until I was enrolled in grad school earning my MBA that I began studying Patagonia’s business philosophies. On my own time, I read Yvon’s classic Let My People Go Surfing, which aggressively contradicted much of the standard business instruction I was receiving in the classroom. I often say that a tiny Milton Friedman was whispering his shareholder-value philosophies in one ear, and a tiny Yvon was ranting about responsibility into the other. Ultimately, Yvon won that battle, but I had much more to learn. That’s why I loved this book– it’s a quick-but-effective recap of Patagonia’s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, combined with actionable steps that any company or entrepreneur can follow to be more responsible and deliberate– while still turning a healthy profit. [Vincent is an amazing thinker, doer, writer, and speaker, so you might enjoy my recent podcast conversation with him.]

Trusting the Gold: Uncovering Your Natural Goodness by Tara Brach – My guru recommended that I read this book. It was a prescription of sorts, one that was intended to help me lighten up, to quit being so hard on myself. To find a Zen-like approach to internal motivation that does not involve mental beatdowns and comically brutal self-talk. Tara is both a renowned meditation teacher and a highly trained PhD psychologist, so, if anybody can help me break my unproductive self-bullying habits, it’s her. I’ve been reading a chapter or two before bed (each chapter is three pages max), and, I have to say, I’ve been lightening up a bit. Of course that could be related to the daily meditation, excessive exercise, ice baths, breath holds, guru sessions, fasting, or any number of weird “self-care” protocols– but for the purpose of this email, I’ll give 85% of the credit to Tara and her excellent book. [I’ve also been a longtime fan of Tara’s classic book Radical Acceptance.]


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Paige Lewis – Durable Conservation, Collective Action, and Strategic Thinking

Paige Lewis

Paige Lewis is the Deputy State Director and Director of Conservation Programs for The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. In this role, she serves as the chapter’s chief conservation officer and is responsible for leading the development of innovative, large-scale and entrepreneurial solutions to the challenges facing people and nature in Colorado and around the world. Paige brings a unique skill set that combines big-picture thinking with tangible, one-the-ground execution– her work involves creating ambitious, large-scale strategies, while also ensuring that the TNC team has the resources, communication, and support to accomplish its goals.

Over the course of this 2023 podcast series with TNC Colorado, we’ve highlighted both the breadth and depth of the organization’s work in Colorado and beyond. From grassland conservation to sustainable water management to forest health to urban conservation efforts (and much more!), it’s been amazing to learn about the positive impact that TNC is having across such a broad spectrum of pressing environmental issues. And if you’ve wondered, as I have, how TNC successfully aligns so many initiatives, teams, and stakeholders toward common organizational goals, well, you’re in luck, because that’s exactly what Paige does!

Paige and I sat down at the TNC office in Boulder just before the holidays and had a fun conversation that looked back at some of the 2023 conservation wins and looked forward toward TNC’s ambitious goals for the future. We started out discussing Paige’s lifelong appreciation for conservation, and her career that took her from her home state of Utah to Washington DC and eventually to Colorado. We discussed her skill of thinking strategically while also focusing on the need to get things done, and how she has managed to keep so many balls in the air year after year. We talk about durable conservation, collective action, and embracing risk, and we also discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with setting ambitious goals. Paige is a voracious reader and lover of history, so she has tons of excellent book recommendations.

A big thank you to Paige for taking the time to chat with me during such a busy time of year, and, once again, thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo by Ethan Herrold/TNC Photo Contest 2019; headshot by Lauryn Wachs.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – How Paige became interested in conservation
  • 9:15 – Paige’s first conservation job 
  • 10:45 – Adjusting from the West to DC
  • 11:45 – Paige’s return West
  • 15:00 – How Paige ended up at TNC
  • 18:30 – Paige’s role at TNC
  • 23:30 – An example of successful collaborative work in Paige’s time at TNC
  • 27:15 – What Paige is most proud of in TNC’s 2023 work
  • 30:30 – Reflecting on TNC’s progress towards their 2026 strategic goals
  • 34:30 – How Paige prioritizes and keeps all the balls in the air
  • 39:45 – What “durable conservation” means and looks like to Paige
  • 42:30 – What “collective action” means and looks like to Paige
  • 45:30 – How Paige knows when to shift from ideation and relationship building to action
  • 48:45 – How TNC’s approach to taking risks has changed during Paige’s tenure
  • 52:15 – What qualities Paige thinks makes a good team member at TNC
  • 56:15 – Paige’s book recommendations
  • 1:02:15 – Paige’s parting words

Information Referenced:



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Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose

Jenna Pollard is a timber framer, a farmer, and an advocate for organic agriculture, but at her core, she is a teacher. The list of Jenna’s inspiring projects, causes, and interests is too extensive to summarize in a few sentences, but to give you an overview: She hosts workshops for women in which they learn the art of timber framing and build structures as a team from the ground up. She’s a team member with Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms (also known as WWOOF), where she helps to provide opportunities for aspiring farmers to build their careers. She’s also a committed traveler, community builder, reader, and all-around inspiring human.

Born and raised in South Dakota, Jenna grew up immersed in the outdoors and various outdoor adventures. After college, she went to work on an organic farm, which began her professional passion for working closely with the land surrounded by a community of like-minded individuals. As you’ll hear, she continued to follow her curiosity and has enjoyed a fulfilling and wide-ranging career– she worked as a teacher in Japan, built her own timber-frame home on the South Dakota prairie, and became deeply involved in helping to develop the skills and confidence of future farmers and timber framers. But if there’s a thread that connects all of Jenna’s work, it’s her commitment to building community through hard work and shared purpose– one of my favorite topics to discuss.

I first learned about Jenna through a short film by Patagonia Workwear that profiled her women’s timber-framing workshops– I’ve linked to the film in the episode notes. So I was thrilled that our schedules aligned so that we could have this conversation, and I learned so much for her. We discussed her upbringing in South Dakota and how her outdoor-focused childhood laid the foundation for her career. We discussed the intricacies of timber framing, and why it is such a powerful skill for building community and confidence. We talk a lot about WWOOF and its Future Farming Program, and Jenna offers some ways that aspiring farmers can get involved. We also discuss books, how Jenna accomplishes so much, how Patagonia has encouraged and supported her work, lessons learned from Japan, and much much more.

If you want to connect with Jenna, attend a workshop, or learn more about WWOOF, there are links to everything in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Jenna Pollard.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:30 – Where Jenna grew up
  • 4:15 – What Jenna did for fun as a kid
  • 6:30 – Turning points in Jenna’s life regarding self-sufficiency in the outdoors
  • 8:45 – Post-high school for Jenna
  • 11:00 – How something like WWOOFing drew Jenna’s career attention
  • 13:30 – Books and thinkers that influenced Jenna’s agrarian lifestyle
  • 16:00 – Defining “timber framing,” and exploring why it captured Jenna’s attention
  • 20:00 – When Jenna decided to start teaching timber framing
  • 21:15 – Discussing the process of Jenna building her house in South Dakota
  • 24:45 – How Jenna came to specifically teach women how to timber frame
  • 38:15 – How Patagonia became interested in Jenna’s timber framing classes
  • 30:45 – Continuing to explore the importance of Jenna’s work with women
  • 33:00 – Jenna’s success stories from her classes
  • 37:15 – The relationships that Jenna builds through timber framing
  • 39:15 – Jenna’s students’ goals
  • 40:45 – Discussing WWOOF
  • 43:15 – Discussing the 2024 Future Farming Program
  • 47:15 – How Jenna manages to do all of this!
  • 48:15 – Jenna’s time as a teacher in Japan
  • 52:30 – Whether or not Jenna ever questioned her path
  • 55:15 – Jenna’s book recommendations
  • 1:01:15 – Jenna’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Diana Lane & Aaron Derwingson – Thriving Rivers, Resilient Agriculture, and Strong Communities

Diana Lane

Diana Lane is the Director of Sustainable Food and Water at the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy, and Aaron Derwingson is the Water Projects Director for the Nature Conservancy’s Colorado River Program. Both Diana and Aaron work at the intersection of water sustainability, thriving rivers, resilient agriculture, and strong communities– harnessing TNC’s relationships and resources to advance some of the most cutting-edge and effective conservation initiatives in the American West.

Diana and Aaron bring a diverse set of skills and experiences to their work at TNC. Diana holds a PhD in Biological Sciences and has spent much of her career working with a wide array of partners on restoration ecology and planning, climate adaptation, and management of public funding. Aaron is a river guide-turned-conservationist who began his career focusing on conservation in the Rio Grande River basin, and now applies his skills toward creating pragmatic, solution-oriented approaches to freshwater challenges in the greater Colorado River basin. But perhaps most importantly, they both bring a deep level of passion and focus to their work– their optimistic commitment to solving some of the West’s most pressing water and agricultural challenges is infectious.

Aaron Derwingson

Diana, Aaron, and I connected virtually and had an educational and inspiring conversation about water, agriculture, and community here in Colorado and beyond. We discussed some of the most urgent water-related challenges and opportunities and how they are working with a wide range of stakeholders to find mutually beneficial solutions. We discuss the Yampa River fund, their work helping agricultural producers adjust to a drier climate, and the all-important role of building solid relationships with stakeholders. We discussed the Maybell Irrigation Ditch Project, which is a fascinating, win-win project for both producers and recreational river users, and we discussed some of the water-related challenges that keep both Diana and Aaron up and night. And as usual, they both have plenty of excellent book recommendations.  

A huge thank you to Diana and Aaron for taking the time to talk with me, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy!

Header photo by Ken Geiger; all photos courtesy of the Nature Conservancy.


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Diana and Aaron’s backgrounds
  • 7:30 – Aaron’s read on the future of water
  • 12:30 – Diana’s overview of the Yampa River Fund
  • 18:30 – Aaron’s work with producers to adjust to the new water reality
  • 23:15 – The process of building relationships with producers for water projects
  • 27:00 – The Colorado Water Plan’s impact on Diana and Aaron’s work
  • 31:45  – Discussing the Yampa River Fund
  • 41:15 – The things about Colorado water that keep Diana and Aaron up at night
  • 47:15 – What makes a solid conservation professional
  • 51:00 – How you can help TNC in this work
  • 55:30 – Diana and Aaron’s book recommendations
  • 1:00:00 – Parting requests and words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire

John Vaillant
(photo credit: John Sinal)

John Vaillant is a renowned writer and journalist whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, National Geographic, and more, and he’s also the author of classic books including The Tiger and The Golden Spruce. His most recent book is titled Fire Weather: A True Story from a Hotter World, which is a must-read for anyone interested in wildfires, humans’ relationship with fire, and the future of fire-related disasters. And you don’t have to take my word for it– the book won the 2023 Baillie Gifford Prize for Non-Fiction and was a finalist for both the National Book Award and the Hilary Weston Writers’ Trust Prize for Nonfiction.

Fire Weather tells the story of the 2016 Fort McMurray wildfire– a historic and apocalyptic fire that torched the city of Fort McMurray, Alberta, and spread across nearly 1.5 million acres of forest. With this epic disaster as the focal point, John masterfully weaves in the fascinating histories of fire, the fossil fuel industry, and climate science. He also explores 21st-century wildfires– why they are hotter, more aggressive, and more destructive than anything we’ve seen before. Whether you’re interested in the science of fire and forest health, the fascinating relationship between humans and fire, or you’re just looking for a book that you won’t be able to put down, I give Fire Weather my highest endorsement.

Wildfires are obviously becoming more and more intense and destructive here in the West, so I was excited to chat with John and dig deeper into the history of fire and the outlook for the future. We discussed why he decided to devote many years to writing about this particular wildfire, and how the book’s ingenious structure came to him in a dream. We talk about the similarities between living beings and fire, a fascinating idea known as the Lucretius Problem, some of the story’s larger-than-life characters, John’s long-term goals for the book, some of his favorite books, and much, much more.

A huge thanks to John for writing such an impactful book and for taking the time to chat with me. I encourage you to pick up a copy of Fire Weather as soon as you can, but in the meantime, enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with John Vaillant.

Header photo: Chris Schwarz / Government of Alberta / Reuters; Headshot: John Sinal


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – When John realized he wanted to write about fire
  • 11:15 – The surprising significance of dreams in John’s writing
  • 14:15 – How John organizes the information in his head so he can write
  • 19:45 – A brief note on pacing, and the similarities between living beings and fire
  • 30:45 – The Lucretius Problem
  • 35:45 – How John finds the characters for his book
  • 44:15 – How John handles writing about someone in a less-than-flattering light
  • 52:00 – John’s goals for his book, Fire Weather
  • 57:30 – John’s book recommendations
  • 1:02:15 – John’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”

Dr. Sara Dant

Dr. Sara Dant is a Brady Presidential Distinguished Professor of history at Weber State University, and she’s the author of one of my most-often recommended books, Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. She is also one of the featured historians in Ken Burns’ newest documentary, The American Buffalo, which you can watch for free on the PBS website. Sara’s work focuses on environmental politics in the United States with a particular emphasis on the creation and development of consensus and bipartisanism, and she is especially skilled at presenting complex, sometimes controversial topics in an engaging and fun-to-learn manner.

In June of 2023, Sara updated and republished her book Losing Eden– she added some chapters, revised some of the content, and added lots of maps, photos, and additional resources. She somehow managed to make one of my favorite books even better. For anyone who is looking for a thorough yet fun-to-read overview of this complex region known as the American West, I can’t recommend it enough. From the migration of the first humans into North America to modern-day controversies around energy development, the book provides a solid foundation and acts as a launching point to dig into whatever specific time period you may find interesting.

Longtime listeners will remember my first conversation with Sara back in 2018, in which we discussed the early phases of North American environmental history, the tragedy of the commons, conservation vs preservation, and more. In this conversation, we focus on mostly recent environmental history, including the historic environmental legislation of the 1960s and 70s, legendary senator Frank Church, and the backlash to environmental regulation that led to movements such as the Sagebrush Rebellion. We also discuss Sara’s perspective-shifting Alaska adventure, the value of wild places, her experience working with Ken Burns, book recommendations, and much, much more.

I always enjoy my visits with Sara, and I can’t thank her enough for how generous she is with sharing her time, wisdom, and expertise. I’d encourage you to pick up a copy of the new Losing Eden, but in the meantime, enjoy this conversation with Dr. Sara Dant.

Photos courtesy of Sara Dant.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Why Sara decided to republish Losing Eden
  • 7:00 – The guiding idea of “At what cost?”
  • 10:00 – The myth of “right or wrong,” “good or bad”
  • 16:15 – Using history to understand our current political situation
  • 19:30 – Optimistic examples of positive political environmental bipartisanship
  • 23:30 – The legendary Idaho senator, Frank Church
  • 28:00 – James Watt and the backlash to environmental regulation
  • 34:00 – Divisiveness as a power-grabbing tool
  • 43:00 – Sara’s 2019 life-changing trip to Alaska
  • 46:30 – What is the value of wild places?
  • 54:15 – Participating in the new Ken Burns documentary
  • 56:30 – Something new that Sara has recently learned
  • 1:02:30 – Book recommendations and further reading
  • 1:10:30 – Parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond

Corissa Busse

Corissa Busse is the Buffalo Restoration Program Manager for The Nature Conservancy, where she oversees TNC’s work to advance Tribal-led efforts to restore buffalo, grasslands, and communities at scale. Based in Rapid City, South Dakota, Corissa and her team at TNC partner with organizations including the InterTribal Buffalo Council and the Tanka Fund to bring buffalo back to tribal lands, which not only contributes to healthier, more resilient landscapes, but helps to heal and restore a web of natural relationships that has been broken for hundreds of years.

TNC has been working with buffalo for many decades now, and it owns herds at numerous TNC preserves across the United States. Each year, those herds produce approximately 1,500 buffalo that are in need of new homes, so TNC has begun working with Tribal nations to transfer these buffalo from the TNC preserves onto Native lands. But transferring the animals from one place to another is relatively simple– it’s the trust-building, infrastructure development, and long-term, collaborative vision that requires strong relationships and outside-the-box thinking. As you’ll hear in this conversation, it’s a complex and important project with amazing potential.

I’ve always loved learning about buffalo, and given the recent release of Ken Burns’ newest documentary on this very subject, I was extra excited to chat with Corissa. We started out with the most basic question of all– “Should we call them bison or buffalo?”– and then moved into the more complex topics. We discussed when and why TNC initially became interested in buffalo, TNC’s history of working with Tribal partners, the challenges of overcoming historical realities, the potential for tension between cattle and buffalo producers, specific success stories from TNC’s buffalo restoration work, the all-important role of strong relationships, resources to learn more about buffalo, and Corissa offers some excellent book recommendations.

I greatly appreciate Corissa taking the time out of her busy schedule to educate me on the finer details of buffalo as well as the large-scale vision for TNC’s work. I learned a lot from this conversation, and I know you will too.  Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy.

Header photo by John Fielder courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, headshot courtesy of Corissa Busse


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Is it buffalo or bison?
  • 6:30 – A brief history of buffalo in the US
  • 10:30 – Books and resources that have helped Corissa learn more about the history of buffalo 
  • 13:45 – TNC’s interest in buffalo
  • 17:00 – TNC’s history of relationship-building with Tribal nation partners
  • 22:15 – How buffalo from TNC’s herds are transferred to other partners
  • 23:30 – Exploring the tension between cattle and buffalo businesses
  • 27:15 – Examples of the success of Corissa’s program
  • 31:15 – Measuring success in this work
  • 35:00 – The challenges in this work that Corissa worries about
  • 39:15 – The market for buffalo
  • 42:15 – How Corissa got into work with buffalo
  • 48:00 – The importance of relationships to Corissa’s work
  • 52:30 – Corissa’s book recommendations
  • 56:00 – Ways you can support Corissa’s work, and Corissa’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagonia’s First Fifty Years

Vincent Stanley`

Vincent Stanley is the Director of Philosophy at Patagonia, and he holds the honor of being the company’s longest-serving employee. He is also an author, poet, and a resident fellow at the Yale Center for Business and the Environment. His most recent book, which he co-authored with Patagonia’s founder Yvon Chouinard, is titled The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years

The book recounts Patagonia’s evolution from its humble beginnings as a small offshoot of Chouinard Equipment for Alpinists to becoming the world’s premiere outdoor apparel brand into its current role of serving as a blueprint for how business can be a force for good in the world. In less than 200 pages, Vincent delves into Patagonia’s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, and he explains Patagonia’s never-ending quest to become more responsible, more thoughtful, and more effective in achieving its mission of “saving our home planet.”

My first real exposure to Patagonia’s business model was when I was a student in graduate school, earning my MBA. I read Yvon’s book Let My People Go Surfing, and realized that many of the business lessons and philosophies from Patagonia stood in stark contrast to those of mega-corporations. Patagonia’s approach opened my mind to a different way of thinking about business, one that led me to follow a much different path than I’d planned when I initially showed up at grad school.  So it was a real honor to have the conversation with Vincent and dig even deeper into the philosophies, ideals, and tactics that have made Patagonia such a legendary enigma in the world of big-time business– and a role model for me and countless other business owners.

Vincent and I connected virtually– he was in Maine, I was in Colorado– and we talked about all aspects of the book, as well as his long and storied history at Patagonia. You can check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, and I would highly recommend you pick up a copy of The Future of the Responsible Company– it’s chock full of actionable, applicable wisdom that anyone with a job would benefit from knowing.

Thanks to Vincent for taking the time to chat, thanks to you for listening, and I hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Patagonia


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – How Vincent became involved in Patagonia
  • 7:00 – Why Vincent and Yvon decided to update The Responsible Company, and a history of changes at Patagonia
  • 24:00 – When Vincent realized there was interest in and demand for the business model and values of Patagonia
  • 28:00 – Differentiating between “responsible” and “sustainable”
  • 31:00 – How Vincent and Patagonia approach the work of marketing
  • 34:30 – The unconventional business performance indicators and evaluations that Patagonia employs
  • 37:15 – Why books are important in Vincent and Patagonia’s work
  • 41:15 – Who and what gives Vincent hope for the future
  • 44:15 – Reconciling the guilt of “messing up”
  • 50:15 – Vincent’s book recommendations
  • 53:00 – Vincent’s parting words of wisdom

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Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”

Rebecca Clarren
(photo credit: Shelby Brakken)

Rebecca Clarren is an award-winning journalist who has been writing about the American West for more than twenty years. Her most recent book is titled The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance. The book is a powerful, nuanced, and deeply personal exploration of her ancestors fleeing antisemitism in Russia and immigrating to the South Dakota prairie at the turn of the 20th century. I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of the book, and I absolutely loved it. Rebecca seamlessly weaves together heavily researched US and Native American history with a vulnerable, clear-eyed examination of her family’s legacy. The result is an engaging story that not only helped me better understand the past, but provided a blueprint for how we can begin to make amends and move forward, both individually and as a nation.

In The Cost of Free Land, Rebecca grapples with the complicated ripple effects of her family settling on the Great Plains– the free land that they received from the US government allowed them to establish a foothold in America, and over time, they found relative stability, especially when compared to their chaotic lives in Russia. But her family’s stability and eventual success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Contrasting her family’s experience with that of the Lakota makes this story all the more powerful, and speaks volumes about Rebeccs’s skill as a writer and journalist. Again, I loved the book.

Rebecca and I connected the day before the book was published, and we had a wonderful conversation. We started by discussing why she decided to write such a deeply personal story, and how that differs from most of her previous journalistic endeavors. She provides a brief overview of the Lakota people and the laundry list of injustices they faced during westward expansion. We discuss the complicated nature of land ownership on reservations, and how those complications continue even to this day. She explains how the US’s treatment of Native American influenced Hitler and the Nazi Party, and how she personally processes her family’s role in Westward expansion by working with spiritual mentors and exploring her own Jewish faith. We also talk about her career as a journalist, how motherhood has changed her, the challenge of writing, and she has lots of great book recommendations.

Thanks to Rebecca for writing such an important and eye-opening book, and thank you for listening.  Hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Rebecca Clarren and Viking Books.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – When Rebecca decided to write “The Cost of Free Land”
  • 9:15 – Discussing the vulnerable process of capturing not just Rebecca’s story, but her entire family’s story and how it ties in with American histories of stolen land
  • 18:15 – Discussing empathy in the difficult stories of Rebecca’s book
  • 21:30 – A brief history of the Lakota and the injustices they faced during westward expansion
  • 27:00 – Discussing the complicated nature of land ownership on Indigenous reservations, and how the US Government still influences land decisions on reservations
  • 30:45 – Discussing the historical implications of US land theft from Indigenous peoples, including how it influenced the actions of the Nazis during the Holocaust
  • 33:15 – The Six Steps of Repentance and how Rebecca processes the violent past of the US and how she benefited from it  
  • 40:45 – The biggest surprise about Rebecca’s family that she learned in writing this book
  • 43:15 – Surprises in Rebecca’s research about the Lakota
  • 48:00 – Where Rebecca thinks the world of journalism is going
  • 51:15 – Rebecca’s career trajectory
  • 55:15 – How having kids impacted Rebecca’s approach to work
  • 58:30 – The difficulty of writing
  • 59:30 – Rebecca’s book recommendations
  • 1:05:45 – Rebecca’s parting words of wisdom

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Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work

Nick Offerman

Nick Offerman is an actor, author, humorist, and woodworker who is best known for playing the legendary character Ron Swanson on NBC’s Parks and Recreation. But his success as an actor is just the tip of the iceberg– he’s written five New York Times bestselling books, is the narrator of three of Wendell Berry’s audiobooks, and owns and operates Offerman Woodshop, where he and a small collective of woodworkers handcraft everything from spoons to furniture to canoes. And as many of you know, Nick is a staunch advocate for conservation, responsible land stewardship, and sustainable agriculture.

Nick’s most recent book is titled Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside, and it’s an excellent, thought-provoking read. It follows Nick on a series of adventures through the American West and English countryside– adventures driven by his desire to better understand conservation, recreation, and humans’ connection to the land and wild places. Along the way, he explores everything from the legacies of John Muir and Aldo Leopold to regenerative agriculture, without shying away from tough, complex topics, such as industrial farming and the conservation movement’s impact on Indigenous cultures. The book also hits on so many underlying ideas that are often explored here on Mountain & Prairie, including nuance, empathy, compassion, curiosity, and doing work that makes the world a better place. I loved the book, and I highly recommend it.

Nick & Ed at Offerman Woodshop

I met up with Nick in Los Angeles at Offerman Woodshop, and we had a fun, inspiring, and at times hilarious conversation about everything from Aldo Leopold’s Land Ethic to Nick’s work as a “traveling clown.” (His words, not mine!) We started out by discussing the life-changing moment when a friend handed him a Wendell Berry book, and how Wendell’s writings and philosophy continue to be one of Nick’s most important sources of inspiration and instruction to this day. We discuss why hard work and being of service to others are so deeply embedded in Nick’s DNA, and the critical role that artists can play in solving societal challenges. We talk about authenticity, the importance of being even-keeled, the need for nuance and open-mindedness, the skill of self-deprecation, enjoying the process of creating, not passing judgment, and much, much more.

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play was just released in paperback, so follow the links in the episode notes to pick up a copy. If you’re a longtime listener, I know you’ll love it. There are also links to Offerman Woodshop, Nick’s touring schedule, and all of his other books, so click through and check it all out.

A thousand thanks to Nick for inviting me to his shop for such an amazing conversation, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo of Nick in Glacier National Park by George Saunders, headshot by Taylor Miller.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – A self-deprecation showdown
  • 5:30 – The impact of Wendell Berry on Nick’s life
  • 10:15 – Of Nick’s family and upbringing, and tying back to Wendell Berry
  • 15:15 – Nick telling the story of when he “made it,” and how that impacted his work ethic
  • 18:30 – Of the ethos of taking the time to do hard things
  • 23:15 – The impact of a conversation between Nick and Wendell Berry
  • 29:00 – More about Nick’s book, Where the Deer and the Antelope Play
  • 42:15 – How Nick discusses serious topics with a lighthearted demeanor
  • 47:30 – How Aldo Leopold influenced Nick
  • 51:45 – A great story about Wendell Berry and the need for artists
  • 55:15 – How and when Nick developed his authenticity 
  • 1:02:00 – The two jokes Nick has written in his career
  • 1:05:45 – What good work looks like
  • 1:18:00 – Discussing how to pronounce words and the importance of not passing judgment
  • 1:23:15 – Coming back to “good work”

Information Referenced:



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Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea

Matt Cahill

Matt Cahill is the Sagebrush Sea Program Director for the Nature Conservancy. Based out of Bend, Oregon, Matt leads all of TNC’s critical work restoring, managing, and protecting sagebrush habitat across six western states. This is a huge and complex effort– it combines protection and policy work with ground-breaking restoration advances, public and industry partnerships, and local community projects. But as you’ll hear in this conversation, Matt is optimistically leaning into the challenge and making great strides to protect this uniquely Western ecosystem.

To give you some context into the vastness of North America’s sagebrush ecosystem, it spans 150 million acres and is home to 350 rare, threatened, and endangered species. Since 1998, 14 million acres of sagebrush ecosystems have been lost, and currently, we’re losing approximately one million acres to invasive species, catastrophic wildfires, development, improper grazing, and climate change. 70% of the Sagebrush Sea is found on public lands, so efforts to protect, manage, and restore the ecosystem are dependent on creative, action-oriented public-private partnerships. Again, Matt is leading a huge and complex effort!

In this episode, we start our conversation by discussing why the Sagebrush Sea is important, and why even people who live far from the ecosystem should care about it. We discuss the history of the threats to sagebrush, and we also do a deep dive into the specific threat of cheatgrass– a true scourge on the landscapes of the West. We discuss the ecology of sagebrush, how TNC measures success when it comes to protecting such a fragile ecosystem, and the importance of partnering with ranchers. We talk about the efficacy of for-profit approaches to restoration, collaboration with government agencies, and specific cutting-edge approaches to restoration. Matt also explains his career trajectory that led him from the East Coast to becoming obsessed with sagebrush, and he offers several great book recommendations.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, including a few videos and writings by Matt that will provide even more context into this nuanced issue. Thanks to Matt and his team for all of their hard work, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Description of the Sagebrush Sea
  • 7:45 – Why sagebrush matters
  • 10:30 – The state of the Sagebrush Sea and how it got there
  • 15:15 – Cheatgrass’s impact on the Sagebrush Sea
  • 23:30 – TNC’s Sagebrush Sea program
  • 26:45 – Exploring the restoration aspect of Matt’s work
  • 33:15 – The restoration timeline for sagebrush regions
  • 35:30 – Measuring restoration success
  • 39:00 – The management portion of Matt’s work
  • 41:30 – Matt’s success stories of collaborating with ranchers
  • 46:00 – The land protection (acquisition, easement, etc.) portion of Matt’s work
  • 49:15 – Evaluating the for-profit wing of conservation of sage grouse habitat
  • 43:15 – Discussing TNC’s collaboration across its own programs as well as with government land managers
  • 57:00 – How Matt ended up an expert in sagebrush biomes when he grew up on the East Coast
  • 1:00:30 – Matt’s book recommendations
  • 1:04:00 – Matt’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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James Prosek – Art, Philosophy, & Our Natural World

James Prosek in Texas

James Prosek is an artist, writer, and naturalist whose work deeply examines our relationship with the natural world. Over the course of his career, he’s focused his artist’s eye and philosopher’s mind on everything from trout to eels, from birds to ocean fishes. For the past two years, he’s been focused on understanding and documenting the grasslands of Texas, and he’s traveled the state examining the diverse plants and wildlife that call the prairie ecosystem home. Beginning on September 16, 2023, the results of his journey around Texas will be on display at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, in his new exhibition titled Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie

James was born in Connecticut and, as you’ll hear in our conversation, much of his childhood was spent obsessed with birds, fish, and fishing. He attended Yale Univesity, where at age 19 he published his first book titled Trout: An Illustrated History, which featured seventy of his watercolor paintings of the trout of North America. From there, his curiosity about the natural world continued to intensify, as evidenced by his prolific production of art and writing for many renowned museums and publications. He has also lent his talents to a variety of conservation efforts, most notably his partnership with Yvon Chionard to protect coldwater fisheries habitat. 

James and I share many mutual friends and interests, so it was wonderful to connect with him for this conversation. It’ll only take you a few minutes of listening to realize that James is a deep thinker whose art is the manifestation of his extremely nuanced and fascinating ideas and philosophies. We started out talking about his first memory of interacting with nature, and how he has used drawing and journaling as tools to better understand plants, animals, and concepts. We discuss how the idea of naming plants and animals is an imperfect science, how drawing connects us with our evolutionary past, how philosophy and philosophical thinking inform all of his art, grasslands in Texas, the importance of understanding and respecting place, how James snaps out of creative slumps, his writing process, and he offers plenty of book recommendations. 

As is the case with so many of my guests, I could’ve talked to James for many more hours. So thankfully, this conversation is part one of what will be a two-episode series with James. The second episode will be a live event at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, on Thursday, January 11, 2024. We’ll be continuing this conversation, and we’ll be focusing in more detail on his exploration of the Texas Prairie and his new exhibition, Trespassers. We’ll be releasing more information about this event soon, but I’d love to see some of you at the event in Fort Worth on January 11.

A huge thank you to James for his inspiring art, to the Amon Carter Museum for the opportunity to chat with James, and to all of you for listening. Enjoy!

Two pieces from the new exhibition, “Trespassers”

Photos courtesy of James Prosek and the Amon Carter Museum of American Art.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – James’ first memory of interacting with nature
  • 7:00 – When journaling and drawing became standard practices for James
  • 10:15 – James’ view on drawing and its connection to our evolutionary past as hunters 
  • 15:15 – How drawing fish made James a better angler
  • 20:45 – How names affect our thinking about other organisms
  • 24:15 – The art that James engaged in parallel to fishing
  • 28:00 – How James sharpens his philosophy 
  • 39:45 – James’ writing process
  • 43:00 – How James establishes connections with places
  • 1:00:15 – Whether or not James has gone through an artistic slump
  • 1:10:00 – James’ parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work

Anna Borgman
Photo by Chloe Nostrant

Anna Borgman is a Montana-based butcher, chef, and writer whose work focuses on helping people better understand and appreciate the origins of their food. Whether writing an article for Steven Rinella’s MeatEater or helping to field harvest and process a bison, Anna has a gift for helping curious, conscientious people become more educated about the impacts of their food choices. And as you’ll hear in this conversation, her enthusiasm and authenticity are infectious– even after more than an hour of chatting, I felt we only scratched the surface.

Anna grew up in Oregon, and thanks to participation in 4H, she was involved with animals and livestock from an early age. During her teenage years, skiing became her primary passion, and she devoted much of her post-college life to spending as many days as possible in the mountains, oftentimes working multiple jobs to make ends meet. Eventually, through a serendipitous chain of events that we discuss, she found her way into culinary school, which was her gateway into the world of meat and butchery. Through all the various stages of Anna’s career, she’s brought intense devotion– possibly even obsession– to her work, which has resulted in a fascinating life trajectory that is both inspiring and instructive.

Anna and I share so many mutual friends and I’ve been hearing about her and her work for many years, so I was thrilled to have her finally join me for a conversation. We started out discussing her childhood in Oregon and how skiing became her primary focus for so many years. We discuss some of her adventurous international travel experiences, and how those places and the characters she met led her into the world of food. We discuss the upsides of obsession, advice for getting out of ruts, the value of curiosity, and the importance of experiencing other cultures. She also talks in detail about the realities of slaughtering livestock, why she feels such a connection to butchery, her favorite books, and much more.

Even though this was my first time meeting Anna, I felt like I was chatting with an old friend. I’m super-inspired by all of her work, but even more inspired by the focus and passion she brings to everything she does. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Anna Borgman and Chloe Nostrant


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – What Anna wanted to be when she grew up
  • 7:30 – When Anna realized that most livestock she raised would led to slaughter 
  • 10:00 – Anna’s interest in skiing and how it led her to work with a French cook in Australia and adventures in Spain
  • 16:30 – Anna’s experience in culinary school
  • 20:15 – Why so many interesting people have pastry making on their resume
  • 22:15 – When Anna became interested in butchery, and whether or not working long days in culinary school made Anna feel more content
  • 25:45 – The importance of having an obsession
  • 28:45 – Anna’s advice for getting out of a rut 
  • 32:00 – The scariest things that have happened to Anna during international travel, as well as the lessons travel taught her
  • 38:30 – When Anna went all in on butchery
  • 43:00 – The process of slaughtering and butchering
  • 46:30 – Anna’s first slaughter
  • 51:45 – Lessons from butchery
  • 57:00 – The value of curiosity 
  • 59:45 – Discussing Forage Fed
  • 1:03:45 – Anna’s book recommendations
  • 1:09:00 – Anna’s guilty pleasures (or lack thereof)
  • 1:14:00 – Anna’s parting words of wisdom

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