Category: Blog

Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids

Mike DeHoff and Meg Flynn
(Photo by Elliot Ross)

Mike DeHoff is the Principal Investigator at Returning Rapids Project, a one-of-a-kind initiative that is documenting the recovery of the Colorado River in Cataract Canyon, upper Glen Canyon, and along the San Juan. Back in 1963, the construction of Glen Canyon Dam created Lake Powell, which submerged many of the area’s canyons– turning what were once wild stretches of the Colorado into flat water. Today, the southwest’s ongoing historic drought has caused Lake Powell’s water levels to to drop significantly, revealing historic rapids, recently hidden geologic features, and riparian ecosystems that had been deep underwater for nearly fifty years.  

The Research Team: Mike, Meg, Chris, and Peter (photo by Cody Cobb)

Returning Rapids began as a personal project for Mike and three of his river-loving friends– Meg Flynn, Peter Lefebvre, and Chris Benson. They began to notice changes in the river created by Lake Powell’s receding waters and started documenting those changes and using historic photographs and documents to better understand the reemerging landscape. Over the years, their work caught the attention of universities, academics, scientists, and government agencies, all of whom were fascinated by what was being discovered deep in those canyons. Fast forward to today, and their work is not only enabling cutting-edge research but also capturing the attention of bigtime media outlets, including a recent feature in Rolling Stone.

Mike connected with me virtually from his home base in Moab, Utah, and we had a fascinating discussion about the Colorado River, Lake Powell, and the history of the Returning Rapids project. We started out with a brief history lesson on the drought’s effect on the Colorado River, then we dug into issues such as the mind-blowing amount of sediment created by Glen Canyon Dam. We discussed when Mike and his partners realized that their personal project was capturing the attention of the public, the challenges of garnering attention for lesser-known places like Cataract Canyon, and the idea of combining Lake Powell and Lake Mead. We also talk a lot about Mike’s personal journey with this project, and how his willingness to follow his curiosity, partner with very smart people, take risks, and work extremely hard has had a significant scientific impact. We also discuss books, his mentors, his desire to learn from everyone he meets, and much more.

A huge thanks to Mike, Meg, Peter, and Chris for their important work, and for providing such a solid example for all of us who feel drawn to make a difference here in the American West. You can support Returning Rapids

Header photo by Travis Custer, photo of Mike and Meg by Elliot Ross, team photo by Cody Cobb


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.

To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.

Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.

To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – The drought of the early 2000s and how it started a 20+ year journey for Mike
  • 16:30 – How an entire land mass of Colorado River sediment can be created with no one claiming management or responsibility of it
  • 21:30 – When Mike’s project shifted from a personal interest to an interest of the public
  • 26:15 – The surprising rate that Lake Powell and Cataract Canyon are capable of recovering
  • 34:30 – How Mike garners attention for lesser-known but important places like Cataract Canyon
  • 37:15 – Discussing the idea of combining Lake Powell and Lake Meade
  • 44:15 – Mike’s advice for people wanting to do something similar to he and his team
  • 47:30 – Mike’s powerful appreciation for the people he meets, and his mentors and heroes
  • 50:30 – Mike’s book recommendations
  • 53:45 – Mike’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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SHED SESSION: Seven Must-Read Books That You May Not Know About

An excerpt from my most recent Shed Session episode, highlighting seven of my favorite books that you may have never heard of.

To listen to the full episode and all future Shed Sessions, become a Patreon supporter.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/shed-session-you-97515649

Live at the Amon Carter Museum – In Conversation with James Prosek and Spencer Wigmore

Second Thursday, January 11, 2024: Spencer Wigmore, James Prosek, and Ed Roberson

This is a special live episode that was recorded at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art in Fort Worth, Texas. The event was centered around the museum’s ongoing exhibition titled Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie, and the episode features a fascinating on-stage conversation with artist and past podcast guest James Prosek and art curator Spencer Wigmore

Trespassers is an exhibit about grasslands– specifically, James examines how we think about and define America’s imperiled prairie ecosystem. Over the course of more than two years, James traveled throughout Texas and the Southern Plains, visiting private ranches and urban restoration sites, and he was often accompanied by some of Texas’s most well-renowned grasslands experts. He investigated ideas around how our man-made boundaries and concepts attempt to define grasslands, and how grasslands often do not conform to our desires to control them. He examines ideas around fire, species classification, conservation, and natural history, and the end result is a collection of more than twenty mind-blowing paintings and sculptures.

As the curator for this exhibit, Spencer played a very unique role throughout the entire project– he was the one who initially approached James with the idea, he accompanied James on many of his grasslands road trips, and he even arranged the exhibit in its stunning space within the museum. So I loved learning about the collaboration between artist and curator, how they complimented each other’s personalities, and how they ultimately worked together to bring this spectacular collection of meaningful art into the world.

As you probably remember from my first podcast conversation with James, he’s a deep thinker who has spent his entire career digging into the nuances of our natural world. And Spencer’s depth of understanding of art history and the artistic process– as well as his ability to communicate his knowledge in a fun and engaging way– is second to none.  So I know you’ll enjoy this conversation that covers everything from broad, big-picture ideas around the philosophies of defining species, all the way down to the details of how James created such intricate, delicate sculptures. Be sure to check out the episode notes below for a full list of everything we discussed.

The episode starts with a kind introduction from The Carter’s Manager of Adult Programming, Madeleine Fitzgerald and then James, Spencer, and I begin our conversation.  I hope you enjoy!


Photos of Trespassers:

All photos courtesy of The Amon Carter Museum of American Art


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – Welcome statements
  • 10:45 – How the Trespassers exhibition came about in Spencer’s mind, and how it landed for James
  • 19:15 – Comparing American grasslands to the Great Pyramids
  • 23:45 – James’ painting process
  • 29:15 – Spencer’s role as curator
  • 34:00 – Discussing the work Fort Worth Composition No. 1
  • 37:45 – Discussing James’ interest in silhouettes 
  • 42:30 – James’ use of bronze to depict burn logs
  • 47:00 – James’ clay flowers
  • 50:15 – The biggest surprise in this project for Spencer
  • 54:00  -What James has learned about grasslands since finishing the project
  • 1:01:15 – James’ read on the state of western grasslands conservation
  • 1:06:15 – James’ book recommendations 
  • 1:09:30 – How Spencer sets up the gallery space
  • 1:14:00 – Audience questions begin
  • 1:14:45 – Spencer’s and James’ relationship to Fort Worth, and whether or not they found remnant prairies there
  • 1:20:00 – Where Spencer and James feel the anti-fire bias came from?
  • 1:23:30 – Inquiring about the significance of a Rio Grande Cutthroat Trout in one of James’ works
  • 1:26:15 – Whether or not James or Spencer did some fly fishing as a part of their research for this project

Information Referenced:



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Ivy Spohnholz – Climate Solutions, Sustainable Fisheries, and Resilient Communities

Ivy Spohnholz
(credit Troy Bowler)

Ivy Spohnholz is the Alaska State Director at The Nature Conservancy, where she leads the organization’s critical work around climate solutions, sustainable fisheries, and resilient communities. Given its size, location, climate, demographics, and economics, Alaska presents a very unique blend of conservation challenges– challenges that can directly affect massive, landscape-scale ecosystems and the communities within them. We’ve rarely, if ever, dug into the details of conservation in Alaska on this podcast, so I was thrilled to have Ivy join me for such an in-depth conversation.

Ivy was born in a dry log cabin in the remote Wrangell Mountains, in what is now Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve. Her entire career has revolved around public service– she’s held leadership roles at the Salvation Army, University of Alaska Anchorage, Alaska Conservation Foundation, and Abused Women’s Aid in Crisis. She also served for more than six years in the Alaska House of Representatives, where she honed her skills as a pragmatic and effective problem solver. In the fall of 2022, she took the reins as TNC’s Alaska State Director and has been applying her skills as a leader and problem solver toward Alaska’s distinctive conservation challenges.

I’ve been lucky enough to visit Alaska on two separate occasions, and I’ve had some of the most formative experiences of my life in the Alaska Range. The size and scale of the mountains, valleys, and wildlife are so staggering that it’s impossible to visit Alaska without gaining a deep respect for both the landscapes and the people who live there. So, I was excited to have the opportunity to chat with Ivy about her adventurous upbringing in Alaska and her service-oriented career. We talk in detail about her unexpected entrance into politics and how she quickly learned to lead and navigate the law-making process as an elected official. We discuss TNC’s focus areas in Alaska, and we talk a lot about Bristol Bay and its ecological and economic significance in the world. As you’ve probably come to expect, we talk about the all-important power of relationships, and we also discuss the need to be practical and optimistic.

A big thank you to Ivy for taking the time to talk with me– I greatly appreciate all of the important work being done by TNC Alaska. Enjoy!

Header photo by Matthew Waliszek, hunting photo by Troy Bowler


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Ivy’s birth in a dry log cabin in the Wrangell Mountains
  • 7:15 – Ivy’s childhood
  • 10:15 – When Ivy left Alaska, and what brought her back
  • 12:00 – How serving others became a core part of Ivy
  • 17:00 – When Ivy became an elected official
  • 24:00 – Discussing the political landscape of Alaska
  • 28:15 – How Ivy became involved with TNC
  • 34:45 – Discussing TNC’s work in Alaska
  • 41:00 – How Ivy balances working urgently with the often slower pace of building relationships 
  • 46:30 – The importance of Bristol Bay
  • 52:00 – Potential future threats to Bristol Bay
  • 57:00 – The biggest surprise for Ivy in her work with TNC
  • 59:30 – Discussing “practical optimism”
  • 1:01:30 – Ivy’s book recommendations
  • 1:03:45 – Ivy’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Chad Ellis – On Leadership, Building Relationships, and Working for the Greater Good

Chad Ellis

Chad Ellis is the CEO of the Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT), which is one of the nation’s leading ag-focused conservation organizations. TALT’s mission is “To conserve the Texas heritage of agricultural lands, wildlife habitats, and natural resources,” but at its core, TALT’s work is built on the foundation of long-term, trusting, mutually respectful relationships. 

Given the small proportion of public lands in Texas compared to other western states, much of the responsibility for landscape-scale ecological health falls on the shoulders of private landowners. And since 2007, TALT has helped these landowners find ways to not only protect their family legacies, but to improve the overall quality of grasslands, water, air, and wildlife for all Texans.

Chad was raised in rural Texas, and from a very early age, he felt a deep connection to land, agriculture, and wildlife. While his entire career has been devoted to thoughtfully and effectively stewarding natural resources, you’ll quickly realize that at his core, Chad is a relationship builder. During his tenures at the NRSC, the Noble Research Institute, and now as the leader of TALT, Chad has implemented many cutting-edge conservation solutions– but, as you’ll hear him explain, none of these projects would be successful without solid, trusting relationships between all stakeholders.

Longtime listeners will recognize Chad from an earlier appearance on Mountain & Prairie– back in 2023, he was one of the panelists in an episode called “Landscape-Scale Management in a Private Land State,” which was recorded live at the Texas Chapter of the Wildlife Society’s annual meeting. In this episode, we dig more into Chad’s personal and professional journey in conservation– why he has devoted his career to such a challenging-yet-critical cause, and how he approaches his work from both practical and philosophical perspectives. We discuss his love of entrepreneurial approaches, his leadership style, mentors, the storied legacy of TALT’s founder Blair Fitzsimons, supporting the next generation of conservationists, his favorite books, and much more.

If you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to check out TALT’s website and follow its work on social media– TALT is a constant source of inspiration for me and all of the Western conservation community. Thanks for listening!

Photos courtesy of Chad Ellis and TALT


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:30 – Where Chad grew up
  • 7:45 – Chad’s work with PERC
  • 10:15 – Where Chad’s entrepreneurial background came from
  • 16:15 – How Chad moved up in the NRCS ranks
  • 18:45 – Chad’s time with Mobil Foundation
  • 21:45 – Chad’s personal vision
  • 24:30 – Chad’s motivation to strengthen people’s connection to the land, instead of just supporting the land itself
  • 27:15 – How Chad hires for a passionate team
  • 29:15 – Chad’s work securing federal funding
  • 32:45 – How Chad thinks about failure
  • 34:45 – How Chad presented his vision for TALT to an already accomplished director (Blair Fitzsimons)
  • 40:30 – Chad’s goal to support the next generation of conservationists
  • 44:30 – How Chad interprets the threats facing conservation in Texas
  • 51:30 – How Chad prioritizes his allocation of resources
  • 58:45 – Exploring Chad’s level of patience, as well as the various ways that people learn and work
  • 1:03:30 – The importance of relationships
  • 1:07:45 – Chad’s book recommendations
  • 1:09:15 – Chad’s parting words of advice

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Rick Wittenbraker – Humility, Generosity, and Building One-of-a-Kind Brands

Rick Wittenbraker

Rick Wittenbraker is the CMO of Howler Brothers, an Austin-based apparel company that creates some of the most unique, stylish, quirky, and highly functional outdoor clothing for adventurers of all stripes. In a little over a decade, Howler has firmly established itself as the go-to brand for anglers, surfers, travelers, and fun-seekers– the kind of people who value good times with good friends in cool places. 

Rick was born and raised in Texas, attended UT Austin, and spent the first years of his career in traditional businesses such as finance and sales. But in 2009, he joined an up-and-coming cooler company known as Yeti, and that is where Rick’s genius for storytelling really broke through. He eventually became Yeti’s VP of Marketing and was one of the major forces behind Yeti’s groundbreaking approach to building a brand through outside-the-box storytelling. Along the way, he met Howler Brother’s founders– Chase Heard and Andy Stepanian– and eventually decided to join them and apply his brand-building expertise toward expanding what is now known as The Howlerverse.

Rick has been a longtime mentor of mine, and I credit his wisdom and counsel as being one the main factors that have allowed me to build Mountain & Prairie from a silly little side project into my full-time job. And there are countless creatives and entrepreneurs who have a similar story of Rick generously taking an interest in their project, offering his hard-earned wisdom, and expecting nothing in return. So this episode with Rick was long overdue.

We recorded this in Austin, at the Howler Brothers HQ, and we covered a lot, including: Rick’s career path, lessons learned from living internationally, his philosophies around building authentic, completely original brands, his ever-present focus on generosity and humility, separating personal identity from brand identity, growing without abandoning core values, the spirit behind the Howler Brothers brand, the Howler Brothers book, some of his favorite books, and much more.

A big thanks to Rick for taking the time to chat with me, as well as for everything he’s done to help Mountain & Prairie grow and evolve over the years. Hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Rick Wittenbraker


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:00 – Rick’s childhood and what he wanted to be when he grew up
  • 9:15 – Rick’s first job out of college
  • 11:15 – Rick’s mentor in his first job
  • 14:45 – When Rick became interested in marketing
  • 18:00 – When Rick realized he and Yeti were onto something big
  • 20:45 – Inspirations for Rick’s style of marketing with Yeti, and why it works so well
  • 25:30 – Fun that Rick has had on the job
  • 27:45 – Why Rick decided to move along from Yeti
  • 29:45 – A bump in Rick’s career road
  • 31:15 – Balancing the merits of business ideas and businesses with the people who implement them
  • 38:00 – Describing Howler Bros.
  • 44:15 – How Howler Bros. balances their identity and values with the need for business growth
  • 46:15 – Separating personal identity from brand identity
  • 49:30 – Balancing initiative and recklessness as it pertains to business progress 
  • 51:30 – Where Rick’s generosity and willingness to help comes from
  • 54:00 – The future of Howler Bros.
  • 58:15 – Rick’s book recommendations
  • 1:03:00 – Rick’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin

This is a special live episode that was recorded in Austin, Texas, in November of 2023 at the 50th Anniversary Endangered Species Act Symposium. As you may know, 2023 marked 50 years since the passing of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), which is one the most influential and impactful pieces of conservation legislation in United States history. This symposium gathered together an impressive and wide range of ESA experts from governmental, non-profit, and for-profit organizations, and we spent the day discussing the ESA’s fascinating and complex past, present, and future. 

Photo by Brittany Wegner

In this episode, we’ll hear from four leaders who have worked in the trenches of conservation for decades, and each of them brings a unique perspective on both the challenges and opportunities that the ESA creates for on-the-ground conservation. The panelists are:

  • Gary Frazer – Assistant Director for Ecological Services at the US Fish and Wildlife Service
  • Peg Romanik – Recently retired high-ranking attorney from the Department of Interior
  • Jimmy Bullock – Senior Vice President at Resource Management Service LLC
  • Leo Miranda-Castro – Former USFWS Director and current Executive Director of Conservation without Conflict

All four of these distinguished panelists have worked extensively within the frameworks of the Endangered Species Act, and they bring a wealth of practical and philosophical knowledge about the ESA’s impact over the past 50 years… and its expected impacts in the future. But perhaps more importantly, these four panelists helped me to appreciate the humanity behind the historic, powerful legislation– the smart, dedicated, conservation-minded leaders whose work has allowed the act to effect change and evolve over the past five decades.

We covered a lot during this hour-long discussion, and highlights include: How the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach; concrete examples of productive, collaborative conservation; working with the extreme opinions about climate change; hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation; examining potential political threats to the ESA; the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation, advice for young people in the conservation field, and much more.  

This episode was the last panel discussion of the day, so if you’d like to listen to the first three panels, you can do so below. Those earlier sessions include discussions with everyone from one of the ESA’s authors to some of today’s most renowned conservation thought leaders– I really can’t imagine having a more impressive group of conservation practitioners in one room. You can check out the Symposium program, which includes all the details of the day’s event and speaker bios. 

And one more thing: This symposium was organized by the fellows of the James G. Teer Conservation Leadership Institute, which is sponsored by The Texas Chapter of The Wildlife Society. The mission of the Teer Institute is to ensure a future legacy of well-trained conservation leaders by providing professional training in leadership skills and contemporary conservation. I was so impressed with all the fellows and left this event feeling very optimistic about the future of conservation in Texas and beyond.

A huge thank you to the fellows and to Dr. Roel Lopez of Texas A&M University for inviting me down to Austin to moderate this panel. It was an honor to be in the same room with all these amazingly inspiring folks. Hope you enjoy!

All photos by Brittany Wegner

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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:00 – Introduction
  • 10:15 – Peg describes when the ESA switched from a more punitive to a more collaborative approach
  • 14:45 – Leo’s example of exceptional collaborative conservation
  • 21:00 – How Gary handles extreme opinions about climate change
  • 27:00 – Examples of Jimmy’s work with the ESA that became financially sustainable
  • 31:30 – Hopes for the future of market-incentivized species conservation
  • 34:45 – Examining the security of the ESA
  • 39:00 – Discussing the evolution of using the ESA for single species conservation to using it for landscape-scale conservation
  • 44:30 – The panel’s advice for young people in this field
  • 53:15 – Wrapping up and acknowledgments

Information Referenced:


Earlier Symposium Sessions

Session One – Past
Featuring Jimmy Bullock, Douglas Wheeler, Peg Romanik, and moderated by Roel Lopez
Session Two – Present
Featuring Terry Anderson, Ryan Orndorff, Bryan Arroyo, Dave Tenny, and moderated by Lindsay Martinez
Session Three – Future
Featuring Chad Ellis, Mike Brennan, Mike Leahy, Gian Basili, and moderated by Mike Marshall


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2023 Reads

A comprehensive list of every book I recommended in 2022, taken directly from my bimonthly book recommendations email.

Holding Fire: A Reckoning with the American West by Bryce Andrews – I’ve had the pleasure of getting to know Bryce over the past few years, and I am always impressed by his ability to balance being an impressively deep thinker with maintaining a proclivity for action. He’s not sitting around thinking for thinking’s sake– he thinks so that he can make solid choices and do good things. In this book, he thinks and writes about the history and modern-day culture of the American West, a landscape that he loves intensely. The story is centered around his complicated relationship with a .357 Smith & Wesson– a gun he inherited from his grandfather. Bryce takes the reader on a very personal journey, examining his family dynamics, mental health, and love of hunting and ranching. He also digs into broader historical and societal issues, including Manifest Destiny and tough-guy culture. Ultimately, his digging and thinking lead him to take action, melt down the .357, and hand-forge it into a tool for regenerative ranch work. A thought-provoking read. [Another thoughtful and personal book by a Missoula-area author is The River You Touch by Chris Dombrowski.]

Saving Us: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World by Katharine Hayhoe – Dr. Hayhoe dedicates this book “to everyone who believes the difficult issues in life are worth talking about,” which, statistics show, is the vast majority of Americans. Despite what the extreme edges of the political spectrum want us to believe, most folks want to learn, talk, and find common ground. Saving Us is less of a deep dive into climate science and more of a guidebook on how to have civil, productive, respectful conversations, no matter the topic. If facts, figures, and endless information could solve all our problems, we’d be living in a Garden-of-Eden-before-the-whole-apple-debacle utopia. As Dr. Hayhoe explains, statistics are worthless if we cannot communicate them across cultural/political/societal divides in an honest and civil manner. Thankfully, she’s figured out methods for having these challenging conversations, and she generously shares her techniques with us in this book. Highly recommended. [If you prefer listening to reading, check out my recent podcast conversation with Dr. Hayhoe. If you mute it when I talk, it’s an awesome discussion.]

Breathe: A Life in Flow by Rickson Gracie – Rickson is arguably the greatest all-around fighter in history, and the Gracie family is credited with transforming jiu-jitsu from an obscure martial art into the most effective fighting technique on earth. Breathe is the story of Rickson’s evolution as a fighter and human– from learning jiu-jitsu from his domineering father to being tested on the streets of Rio, from ascending the ranks of high-dollar professional fighting to becoming the patriarch of modern-day jiu-jitsu. He provides a fascinating glimpse into the culture of Brazil in the 70s and 80s, and an even more fascinating glimpse into the sometime-bizarre, insular, hyper-competitive culture of the Gracie family. Rickson is a complex dude, and this memoir reveals many conflicting– sometimes aggressively clashing– aspects of his personal operating system. He’s humble yet arrogant, compassionate yet violent, enlightened yet bullheaded, curious yet close-minded. Whaddaya know, he’s an imperfect human, just like me! [As I read about Hickson’s obsession with “respect,” I was constantly reminded of Tamler Sommers’ Why Honor Matters.]

The Book of Delights: Essays by Ross Gay – I would have never picked up this book had it not been sent to me by a good friend who oddly seems to know what I want/need to read before I do. I wish I could explain why this book is so special, but I can’t, so I’ll just say: “I loved it.” I caught myself smiling while I read it, even though my baseline expression is apparently a scowl. The book was just what I needed at this specific moment– optimistic, hilarious, incisive, insightful, and… sorry to do this… delightful. Gay is a poet by trade, so he has a way with words, but I most admire his commitment to forcing himself to focus on the positive. And not a Pollyanna, head-in-the-sand version of positive. Rather, he looks directly at the world’s imperfections and horrors, acknowledges them, feels them, and then continues on with his work of seeking out the delightful. [At times, Gay’s hilariously precise observations reminded me of David Sedaris, especially his When You Are Engulfed in Flames.]

Thinking Like Your Editor: How to Write Great Serious Nonfiction and Get It Published by Susan Rabiner and Alfred Fortunato – The subtitle pretty much sum it up. If you want to write a nonfiction book using traditional publishing methods, this is the instruction manual. Recommended to me by several published authors, Thinking Like Your Editor walks you through strategies and tactics that just might allow you to transform that seed of an idea in your brain into the intellectual property of a major publishing house. The book was published in 2002, so some of the specifics and references are a bit dated, but all the important stuff is still there. Note to self: Reading a book about writing a book doesn’t write the book. [Two excellent books about writing are On Writing by Stephen King and On Writing Well by William Zinsser.]

War by Sebastian Junger – If you’ve been following my recommendations for a while, then you’re probably sick and tired of my repeated touting of Junger’s Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging, which is one of the most impactful books I’ve read. War is the story that informed many of the foundational ideas in Tribe, and it details Junger’s time embedded with an Army platoon at a deadly outpost in the unforgiving mountains of Afghanistan. Yes, War is obviously about war, but to me, the book is more about the brotherhood that binds young men who find themselves united against a common enemy, surrounded by perpetual mind-scrambling danger, dependent on each other to stay alive. Junger does a masterful job helping someone like me (who never served) understand how war can be simultaneously miserable, addictive, and desirable, and why it has been such a right of passage for young men for as long as we humans have been fighting with each other. [To hear Junger discuss this topic for an hour, check out this podcast episode: Why Men Seek Danger.]

The Fixed Stars by Molly Wizenberg – When I read a memoir, I’m not looking for entertainment, I want to learn. And my favorite memoirs are those in which I share little in common with the author, yet their skill as a writer allows me to deeply connect with their story, understand their motivations and choices, and finish the book with a wider perspective or new way of looking at the world. I have very little interest in having my ideas confirmed or affirmed– I want to stretch and stress test my notions, to uncover any blatant holes in my thinking. So a huge thank you to the wonderful Molly Wizenberg for offering this raw, vulnerable, hopeful, and at times heartbreaking look into her life, one that made me think hard about the power of our self-imposed identities, personal evolution, and familial bonds. And while I would’ve enjoyed the book under any circumstances, it was an added bonus that Molly just so happens to be a fun, funny, and down-to-earth human. To hear for yourself, check out our podcast conversation.

The Martian by Andy Weir – I have no idea why this book popped into my consciousness or why it rose to the top of my way-too-long need-to-read list. But it did, and I’m glad, and I loved it. I read very few novels, I’m usually not a fan of science fiction, but this book had me locked in from the first few pages. The main character was legitimately hilarious, and, as far as I could tell, the details of the story seemed to be rooted in real-life science/physics/space/smart-people stuff. And as an added bonus, it’s written in a manner that flatters the ego of a not-so-smart liberal arts graduate like me by making me feel that I fully understand the physics of interplanetary rocket science. But I was especially intrigued by the backstory of the author and how he came to write such a runaway best-seller-turned-blockbuster movie. The book started out as a series of blog posts that he then turned into a $0.99 self-published ebook… and it took off from there. Fun book, fun backstory, highly recommended. [And speaking of action-packed novels, if you haven’t already, read The Painter by Peter Heller.]

Industrial Society and Its Future by FC aka Ted Kaczynski aka The Unabomber – In my seven and a half years of sending out these emails, this may seem like the strangest title I’ve recommended. But there’s no way around it– the “Unabomber Manifesto” is a thought-provoking read. While I admittedly have a tough time separating the book’s ideas from its author, there are several sections that are amazingly prescient to today’s headlines around polarized politics and exponentially advancing technology. But unfortunately for Kaczynski, his sometimes-impressive premonitions and theories aren’t good for much other than serving as a kind of historical sideshow spectacle. Rather than using his exceptional intellectual horsepower to actually effect change, he chose to sit in a cabin alone for 20 years, fuming about how things ought to be, and occasionally lashing out violently. While Kaczynski seemed to believe the was some sort of revolutionary– the hero of his own story– I see his life as a cautionary tale of wasted potential, delusions of grandeur, and the murky gray area that can sometimes separate genius and insanity.

Crow Fair, Gallatin Canyon, and Cloudbursts by Thomas McGuane – As you can see, I’m going deep down the rabbit hole of McGuane short stories, and I’m loving it. With these three collections, I’ve been happily jumping from book to book, story to story, and have yet to finish them all. There’s nothing I can write here that would do justice to McGuane’s skill as a storyteller– let’s just say he’s a literary genius and leave it at that. But what really intrigues me about him is the intensity and single-mindedness that he seems to bring to all aspects of his life– from writing to fishing to roping and everything in between. And how he transformed from a singularly focused, straight-laced aspiring novelist into a Key West wild man known as “Captain Berserko” and then back again to a singularly focused wordsmith. Being blessed with an all-or-nothing personality myself, I’m always seeking guidance from those who have corralled that sometimes-challenging personality trait into something productive. While I haven’t discovered McGuane’s secret quite yet, I expect to have it all figured out once I’m through all these stories. Reasonable expectation, right? [Another collection I loved and revisit often is Chris la Tray’s One-Sentence Journal.]

Grizzly Years: In Search of the American Wilderness by Doug Peacock – From the earliest days of my podcast, guests have consistently recommended this book as a must-read about the American West. Now I understand why. It’s Peacock’s story of finding healing and purpose in the aftermath of the violence of the Vietnam War– an odyssey that began when he wandered into the backcountry of Yellowstone National Park while in the throes of a malaria-induced fever dream. When he came to, he was in the world of grizzlies, and– unlike me, who would’ve screamed and cried and run for my life– he stayed, forming a deep bond with the beautiful-but-deadly animals. Doug credits the grizzlies with saving his life, and he has spent the majority of his life entirely focused on protecting them. A must-read for anyone who loves the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, grizzlies, or purpose-driven humans. [Doug was the inspiration for the character Hayduke in his pal Ed Abbey’s classic The Monkey Wrench Gang.]

Was it Worth It? A Wilderness Warrior’s Long Trail Home by Doug Peacock – This is Peacock’s most recent book, a collection of some of his incredible adventures protecting wild places. From the deserts of North America to the wilds of Russia to the coasts of Central America and British Columbia, Peacock takes the reader to beautiful and sometimes-unforgiving landscapes– landscapes that would surely be ruined without the protection of eco-warriors like Peacock. While I loved the adventure stories, I was most struck by Peacock’s long-lasting friendships with many high-powered personalities– Yvon Chouinard, Jim Harrison, Ed Abbey, Rick Ridgeway, Doug Tompkins, and more. I’m fascinated by how that crew of rebellious legends fed off each other’s energy, increasing their impact both individually and collectively. Also, Was it Worth It? was published by Patagonia Books, so it’s jam-packed with stunning photos, making it more of a work of art than a simple book. [If you haven’t already, read Life Lived Wild by Rick Ridgeway, another beautiful book by a living legend.] [And here are my conversations with both Doug and Rick.]

River Teeth: Stories and Writings and My Story as Told by Water: Confessions, Druidic Rants, Reflections, Bird-watchings, Fish-stalkings, Visions, Songs and Prayers Refracting Light, From Living Rivers, in the Age of the Industrial Dark by David James Duncan – Back in 2002, I was headed off on my first big adventure in really big mountains. On the flight to Mendoza, my buddy handed me his tattered copy of The River Why and said: “Read this.” Who would’ve ever guessed that more than two decades after that initial cinematic introduction to the great David James Duncan, I’d be sitting on a stage with him, trying to ask coherent questions about his legendary life’s work? In preparation for my interview, I focused on these two collections of essays– powerful, vulnerable, sometimes-hilarious, sometimes-heartbreaking tales from his life of writing, activism, fishing, and deep thinking. Even though he’s operating on a much higher intellectual and spiritual plane than me, Duncan has the rare ability to make his nuanced, poetic ideas about place, spirituality, death, loss, and fly fishing enlightening, even to an averaged-brained human like me. I especially connected with Who Owns the West: Seven Wrong Answers, The Non Sense of Place, Beauty/Violence/Grief/Frenzy/Love: On the Contemplative Versus the Activist Life, and The Mickey Mantle Koan, but every single essay is worth multiple reads. [Duncan’s newest masterpiece, Sun House, will be published on 8/8– so be on the lookout for my Sun House recommendation and our podcast episode later this summer.]

Make It: 50 Myths and Truths about Creating by Brendan Leonard – Brendan is one of the most prolific artists I know, consistently cranking out an extremely high quality/quantity of books, essays, cartoons, films, and newsletters year after year after year. If you’re wondering how he does it, you’re in luck– in this new book, he shares 50 ideas about the creative process. Combining his cartoons with hilariously insightful essays– with the occasional F word thrown in for emphasis– Brendan destroys the nonsensical excuses that people like me use to talk themselves out of doing creative work. According to Brendan, it’s a “polite but firm kick in the ass” to help people get going. And not that Brendan needs my endorsement, but I credit his example and approach with helping me to transform my little creative side projects into a full-time job. Great book. It’ll make you make. [Another excellent book on this subject is Seth Godin’s The Practice.]

A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World: Tales for Fire, Wind, and Water by David Gessner – And speaking of prolific, David Gessner is back! This time, his focus is climate change. A dour topic for sure, but, as we’ve come to expect from Gessner, he injects humor and wit into all of his writing, which makes the medicine go down a little smoother. A Traveler’s Guide chronicles his journeys around the country, where he finds himself in a variety of climate disasters– from historic forest fires in the American West to hurricanes on North Carolina’s Outer Banks. Eschewing the ubiquitous facts, figures, and policy debates that often dominate climate-focused books, David does what he does best: he tells stories. Specifically, he tells impactful, insightful stories from the front lines of the climate crisis– stories that are still rattling around in my head weeks later and have even caught the attention of the Washington Post and Independent. [Another recent non-facts-and-figures climate change book I enjoyed was Saving Us by Dr. Katharine Hayhoe.] [And if you want to hear the authors discuss these climate-focused books, you can listen to my podcasts with David and Katharine.]

The Song of Significance: A New Manifesto for Teams by Seth Godin – I read everything Seth Godin writes. Of all his most recent books, this one is probably the least applicable to my life and work, as it is about working on teams within organizations– but I still gleaned great value from it. Thankfully, I’ve managed to escape the nightmarish dystopian hellscape that is Zoom and Slack, but amazingly, Seth seems to have figured out how to use those tools to actually bring out the best in people. Written in the same structure as many of Seth’s most recent books, it’s 100+ quick-but-powerful chapters that will help leaders ensure their teams are empowered, confident, satisfied, and content with their jobs. And please note, I did not write “feel empowered”– Seth wants them to actually be empowered. What an outlandish, non-MBA approach to leadership! [The best organizational leadership book I’ve ever read is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin.]

I’m currently in the depths of a personal writing project that has me skimming through some of my favorite funny memoirs and non-fiction writing. I’ve laughed hysterically at The Sex Lives of Cannibals and Getting Stoned with Savages by J. Marteen Troost, When You Are Engulfed in Flames by David Sedaris, A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson, Jaguars Ripped My Flesh by Tim Cahill, and The Selected Columns of Carl Hiaasen. I also just started The World’s Largest Man by Harrison Scott Key, and it’s hilarious. Please let me know if you know of other laugh-out-loud non-fiction writers that I may be missing.

Call Sign Chaos: Learning to Lead by Jim Mattis and Bing West – An acquaintance of mine who I greatly admire named his first son Mattis, so that was all the encouragement I needed to read this book. It’s the General’s memoir, covering his life as a wild, trouble-making teen through his highly accomplished career as a Marine and public servant. When it came to serving his country, Mattis was all in– he never married, maniacally read and studied history, and was intimately involved in almost all of the major military events of the past 30+ years. He earned the respect of both his superiors and subordinates and is rightly considered one of the military’s most effective leaders in recent history. I loved Mattis’s focus on reading (“If you haven’t read hundreds of books, you are functionally illiterate…”), and I was intrigued by the constant friction between the paper pushers in Washington and the soldiers on the ground in war zones. I was also fascinated by his ideas about managing crises vs. eliminating them, and his frustrations whenever politics thwarted his ability to achieve his military objectives. I loved this book. [One of my other favorite memoirs is Shoe Dog by Phil Knight.]

Leadership Strategy and Tactics: Field Manual by Jocko Willink – This was the sole remaining leadership book by Jocko that I had yet to read, and I cranked through it in a day. Jocko has the rare ability to write in a clear, not-fancy, easy-to-understand style, yet his paragraphs still manage to carry a ton of weight. The purpose of this book is to clearly and simply provide actionable wisdom on leadership– specific methods to overarching ideologies that can be applied anywhere from the battlefield to the family dining room table. Despite his warrior pedigree and tough-guy veneer, his approach to leadership is much more Dalai Lama than General MacArthur– he emphasizes listening, abolishing ego, building relationships, being of service to subordinates, and letting go of control. A worthwhile read for leaders of all stripes. [Jocko’s Extreme Ownership is one of the most perspective-shifting books I’ve ever read.]

Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior by Chögyam Trungpa – This was the second book I ever read about Buddhist philosophy. I bought it immediately after my first mediation workshop at the Shambhala Center, the organization founded by Trungpa. Very little of it made sense to me when I read it back in 2012, but this time around, with dozens of Eastern philosophy books and hundreds of hours of meditation under my belt, it struck a much stronger chord. The basic idea (as I understand it) is that true contentment and peace cannot be found externally, only through nurturing our minds with curiosity and compassion. A decade ago, I would’ve laughed out loud at the preceding spiritual-mumbo-jumbo sentence, but thanks to books like this, I really do believe that mumbo-jumbo to be true. [The first Buddhism-focused book I ever read was The Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama.]

Don’t Bite the Hook by Finding Freedom from Anger, Resentment, and Other Destructive Emotions by Pema Chodron (audiobook) – I estimate that I’ve listened to this book at least 20 times, two of those being during the past month. The subtitle gives you all the information you need to know about its topic, but I’ll use this recommendation to once again proclaim: Pema Chodron is one of the wisest humans walking the earth today. I love everything she writes, and I love listening to her lecture even more. I’ve never met her, I’m not a Buddhist, nor do I have any plans to convert, but I still consider her one of my greatest teachers. [Another Pema audiobook that I’ve had on rotation for many years is Smile at Fear.]

The 5 Second Rule: Transform your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins (audiobook) – One of my reading goals for 2023 was to avoid self-help books like the plague. But the Algorithmic Overlords started feeding me clips of the unmistakably tough-talking, no-nonsense Mel Robbins, and before I knew what had happened, I was listening to this audiobook on one of my many long drives. As much as I hate to admit it, I think Mel is on to something here, at least when it comes to my problem with procrastination. Basically, she’s extolling the virtues of quickly and aggressively breaking the inertia of fear/laziness/stalling, then immediately forcing yourself to simply start working. None of this is new, and all of it is simple and unsurprising. But implementing these tactics can be surprisingly difficult, a fact that she seems to enjoy repeating. I’m not sure if it’s Mel’s ingratiating midwestern accent or her charismatic repackaging of age-old ideas, but I’ve been counting to five and getting to work and feeling better about myself, so I won’t ask to many questions and will just go with it. [The Art of Taking Action by Gregg Krech is a different version of the same idea with a wildly different tone.]

Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: And Other Tough-Love Truths to Make You a Better Writer by Steven Pressfield – Later this week, I’ll be pointing my truck westward and heading to Vernal, Utah, which is the launching point for my first-ever course as an instructor with the Freeflow Institute. We’ll be exploring how to use storytelling as a tool to effect change, and how to respectfully capture people’s attention in an increasingly loud and mostly annoying media landscape. My first assignment to the students was this straight-to-the-point book, a book selection that very well may have caused s few of them to question their teacher’s judgment and their own decision to attend the workshop. Anyway, I live by Pressfield’s foul-mouthed credo, and I fully embrace the fact that no one is going to beat down the door to listen to my podcast, read my writing, or subscribe to my emails– it’s on me to make something that is worth consuming and sharing. [Pressfield’s Turning Pro also packs a punch.]

Call an Audible: Let My Pivot from Harvard Law to NFL Coach Inspire Your Transition by Daron K. Roberts – I’ve been a loyal subscriber to Coach Roberts’ weekly email for several years, and I’m always happy to see his name show up in my inbox every Wednesday. Both Daron and his writing are funny, no-nonsense, inspiring, and practical. I’d been wanting to read his memoir for quite some time now, and I’m do glad I finally did. The book follows his journey from growing up in small-town Texas to Student Body President at the University of Texas to student at Harvard Law School. And as the subtitle explains, upon graduating from Harvard, he took an aggressive turn off the beaten path and focused his overflowing energy on becoming an NFL coach. My takeaways from Daron’s professional odyssey are: 1) He was not above performing even the most menial, ego-challenging tasks, 2) He understood the importance of building solid relationships up and down the chain of command, 3) He would respectfully not take no for an answer, and 4) He was willing to work harder than his competition. Daron’s story will resonate with anyone who has followed (or dreams of following) an unconventional path. [Speaking of football, Monte Burke’s Saban is excellent.]

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside by Nick Offerman – You probably know Nick from his portrayal of Ron Swanson on NBC’s Parks and Recreation, but that legendary performance is only the tip of the iceberg– he’s a master woodworker, disciple of Wendell Berry, traveling humorist, regenerative agriculture advocate, and voracious reader, just to name a few. In this, his newest book, he explores ideas around conservation, land stewardship, and responsible, thoughtful living through a series of adventures and misadventures in the American West and English countryside. Combining his insatiable curiosity with his unmistakable humor, the book is basically a blueprint for how to be kind (i.e., not a jerk), thoughtful (i.e., not a shallow-thinking idiot), humble (i.e., not a narcissist), and a hard worker (i.e., not a lazy slob). In September of 2023, this book was named The Official Mountain & Prairie Guide to Life (by me). [To hear Nick and I discuss the book, as well as more obscure topics such as “old Superman,” check out our recent podcast conversation.]

Paddle Your Own Canoe: One Man’s Fundamentals for Delicious Living by Nick Offerman – This was Nick’s first foray into the publishing world– and also his first of five appearances on the New York Times bestseller list. Published back in 2013, it’s his life story spanning from his youth in a small, tight-knit Midwestern community up to when he “made it” as an actor after nearly 20 years of grinding on the lower rungs of show business. Nick is hilariously self-deprecating and not at all impressed by fame or wealth, which makes this memoir an even more refreshing and inspirational read. Funny stories, insightful wisdom, and applicable life lessons– there’s value for anyone who places a premium on being a good person. Oh, and Nick narrates all of his audiobooks, as well as three of Wendell Berry’s. So, despite my preference for paper, I can wholeheartedly recommend the audio versions of everything he’s involved with. [I also enjoyed a smattering of chapters from Nick’s book Gumption, particularly Frederick Douglass, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jeff Tweedy, and Conan O’Brien.]

The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance by Rebecca Clarren – There are plenty of books lining the shelves that follow worn-out, not-productive approaches to reckoning with horrors of the past. Some purposefully ignore facts, some blindly and perpetually cast blame, and others self-flagellate into absurdity. The Cost of Free Land is not one of those books. Rebecca takes a nuanced, clear-eyed approach to understanding her family’s complex history– they fled anti-Semitism in Russia and established a new life on the plains of South Dakota, eventually finding success as land-and-business owners. But her family’s success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Combining vulnerable family memoir with deeply researched history, Rebecca digs into her family’s complicated past, and then digs into her own Jewish faith to find a productive, healing path forward. I loved it. A must-read. [Another powerful examination of family and brutal history is Sugar in the Blood by Andrea Stuart.]

Wild New World: The Epic Story of Animals and People in America by Dan Flores – I read everything Dan Flores writes. No matter how micro or macro the subject, he presents his narrative in an engaging style that makes hardcore history read like a fast-paced novel. This book definitely falls into the “macro” category– it’s a “big history” covering the past 66 million years of life here on good ol’ Planet Earth. Most of the book is devoted to humans’ relatively brief reign as the apex predator of the world, with an emphasis on just how drastically we have altered the landscapes, flora, and fauna of North America during that short time. But this is not a gloom-and-doom, humans-ruined-the-planet, all-is-lost kind of book. Rather, it’s a realistic accounting of our past that ends with an optimistic appraisal of our current trajectory into the future. [To better understand some of the people and legislation that put us on our current trajectory, read Douglas Brinkley’s Silent Spring Revolution.]

Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – Losing Eden is definitely one of my most-often recommended books. But despite its being my absolute favorite overview of conservation and environmentalism in the West, the original edition never seemed to reach a broad audience. Thankfully that’s changing, because University of Nebraska Press bought the rights, Sara updated the book, and the end result is an even more substantial tome, complete with new photos, maps, and suggested reading lists. The book’s new format and the new publisher’s willingness to promote it– not to mention Sara’s appearances in the new Ken Burns documentary– will get this very important book into the hands of a much, much larger audience.

The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years by Vincent Stanley with Yvon Chouinard – I’ve been a Patagonia customer for nearly 30 years, but it wasn’t until I was enrolled in grad school earning my MBA that I began studying Patagonia’s business philosophies. On my own time, I read Yvon’s classic Let My People Go Surfing, which aggressively contradicted much of the standard business instruction I was receiving in the classroom. I often say that a tiny Milton Friedman was whispering his shareholder-value philosophies in one ear, and a tiny Yvon was ranting about responsibility into the other. Ultimately, Yvon won that battle, but I had much more to learn. That’s why I loved this book– it’s a quick-but-effective recap of Patagonia’s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, combined with actionable steps that any company or entrepreneur can follow to be more responsible and deliberate– while still turning a healthy profit. [Vincent is an amazing thinker, doer, writer, and speaker, so you might enjoy my recent podcast conversation with him.]

Trusting the Gold: Uncovering Your Natural Goodness by Tara Brach – My guru recommended that I read this book. It was a prescription of sorts, one that was intended to help me lighten up, to quit being so hard on myself. To find a Zen-like approach to internal motivation that does not involve mental beatdowns and comically brutal self-talk. Tara is both a renowned meditation teacher and a highly trained PhD psychologist, so, if anybody can help me break my unproductive self-bullying habits, it’s her. I’ve been reading a chapter or two before bed (each chapter is three pages max), and, I have to say, I’ve been lightening up a bit. Of course that could be related to the daily meditation, excessive exercise, ice baths, breath holds, guru sessions, fasting, or any number of weird “self-care” protocols– but for the purpose of this email, I’ll give 85% of the credit to Tara and her excellent book. [I’ve also been a longtime fan of Tara’s classic book Radical Acceptance.]

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside by Nick Offerman – You probably know Nick from his portrayal of Ron Swanson on NBC’s Parks and Recreation, but that legendary performance is only the tip of the iceberg– he’s a master woodworker, disciple of Wendell Berry, traveling humorist, regenerative agriculture advocate, and voracious reader, just to name a few. In this, his newest book, he explores ideas around conservation, land stewardship, and responsible, thoughtful living through a series of adventures and misadventures in the American West and English countryside. Combining his insatiable curiosity with his unmistakable humor, the book is basically a blueprint for how to be kind (i.e., not a jerk), thoughtful (i.e., not a shallow-thinking idiot), humble (i.e., not a narcissist), and a hard worker (i.e., not a lazy slob). In September of 2023, this book was named The Official Mountain & Prairie Guide to Life (by me). [To hear Nick and I discuss the book, as well as more obscure topics such as “old Superman,” check out our recent podcast conversation.]

Paddle Your Own Canoe: One Man’s Fundamentals for Delicious Living by Nick Offerman – This was Nick’s first foray into the publishing world– and also his first of five appearances on the New York Times bestseller list. Published back in 2013, it’s his life story spanning from his youth in a small, tight-knit Midwestern community up to when he “made it” as an actor after nearly 20 years of grinding on the lower rungs of show business. Nick is hilariously self-deprecating and not at all impressed by fame or wealth, which makes this memoir an even more refreshing and inspirational read. Funny stories, insightful wisdom, and applicable life lessons– there’s value for anyone who places a premium on being a good person. Oh, and Nick narrates all of his audiobooks, as well as three of Wendell Berry’s. So, despite my preference for paper, I can wholeheartedly recommend the audio versions of everything he’s involved with. [I also enjoyed a smattering of chapters from Nick’s book Gumption, particularly Frederick Douglass, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jeff Tweedy, and Conan O’Brien.]

The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance by Rebecca Clarren – There are plenty of books lining the shelves that follow worn-out, not-productive approaches to reckoning with horrors of the past. Some purposefully ignore facts, some blindly and perpetually cast blame, and others self-flagellate into absurdity. The Cost of Free Land is not one of those books. Rebecca takes a nuanced, clear-eyed approach to understanding her family’s complex history– they fled anti-Semitism in Russia and established a new life on the plains of South Dakota, eventually finding success as land-and-business owners. But her family’s success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Combining vulnerable family memoir with deeply researched history, Rebecca digs into her family’s complicated past, and then digs into her own Jewish faith to find a productive, healing path forward. I loved it. A must-read. [Another powerful examination of family and brutal history is Sugar in the Blood by Andrea Stuart.]

Wild New World: The Epic Story of Animals and People in America by Dan Flores – I read everything Dan Flores writes. No matter how micro or macro the subject, he presents his narrative in an engaging style that makes hardcore history read like a fast-paced novel. This book definitely falls into the “macro” category– it’s a “big history” covering the past 66 million years of life here on good ol’ Planet Earth. Most of the book is devoted to humans’ relatively brief reign as the apex predator of the world, with an emphasis on just how drastically we have altered the landscapes, flora, and fauna of North America during that short time. But this is not a gloom-and-doom, humans-ruined-the-planet, all-is-lost kind of book. Rather, it’s a realistic accounting of our past that ends with an optimistic appraisal of our current trajectory into the future. [To better understand some of the people and legislation that put us on our current trajectory, read Douglas Brinkley’s Silent Spring Revolution.]

Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sara Dant – Losing Eden is definitely one of my most-often recommended books. But despite its being my absolute favorite overview of conservation and environmentalism in the West, the original edition never seemed to reach a broad audience. Thankfully that’s changing, because University of Nebraska Press bought the rights, Sara updated the book, and the end result is an even more substantial tome, complete with new photos, maps, and suggested reading lists. The book’s new format and the new publisher’s willingness to promote it– not to mention Sara’s appearances in the new Ken Burns documentary– will get this very important book into the hands of a much, much larger audience.

The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years by Vincent Stanley with Yvon Chouinard – I’ve been a Patagonia customer for nearly 30 years, but it wasn’t until I was enrolled in grad school earning my MBA that I began studying Patagonia’s business philosophies. On my own time, I read Yvon’s classic Let My People Go Surfing, which aggressively contradicted much of the standard business instruction I was receiving in the classroom. I often say that a tiny Milton Friedman was whispering his shareholder-value philosophies in one ear, and a tiny Yvon was ranting about responsibility into the other. Ultimately, Yvon won that battle, but I had much more to learn. That’s why I loved this book– it’s a quick-but-effective recap of Patagonia’s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, combined with actionable steps that any company or entrepreneur can follow to be more responsible and deliberate– while still turning a healthy profit. [Vincent is an amazing thinker, doer, writer, and speaker, so you might enjoy my recent podcast conversation with him.]

Trusting the Gold: Uncovering Your Natural Goodness by Tara Brach – My guru recommended that I read this book. It was a prescription of sorts, one that was intended to help me lighten up, to quit being so hard on myself. To find a Zen-like approach to internal motivation that does not involve mental beatdowns and comically brutal self-talk. Tara is both a renowned meditation teacher and a highly trained PhD psychologist, so, if anybody can help me break my unproductive self-bullying habits, it’s her. I’ve been reading a chapter or two before bed (each chapter is three pages max), and, I have to say, I’ve been lightening up a bit. Of course that could be related to the daily meditation, excessive exercise, ice baths, breath holds, guru sessions, fasting, or any number of weird “self-care” protocols– but for the purpose of this email, I’ll give 85% of the credit to Tara and her excellent book. [I’ve also been a longtime fan of Tara’s classic book Radical Acceptance.]


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Paige Lewis – Durable Conservation, Collective Action, and Strategic Thinking

Paige Lewis

Paige Lewis is the Deputy State Director and Director of Conservation Programs for The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. In this role, she serves as the chapter’s chief conservation officer and is responsible for leading the development of innovative, large-scale and entrepreneurial solutions to the challenges facing people and nature in Colorado and around the world. Paige brings a unique skill set that combines big-picture thinking with tangible, one-the-ground execution– her work involves creating ambitious, large-scale strategies, while also ensuring that the TNC team has the resources, communication, and support to accomplish its goals.

Over the course of this 2023 podcast series with TNC Colorado, we’ve highlighted both the breadth and depth of the organization’s work in Colorado and beyond. From grassland conservation to sustainable water management to forest health to urban conservation efforts (and much more!), it’s been amazing to learn about the positive impact that TNC is having across such a broad spectrum of pressing environmental issues. And if you’ve wondered, as I have, how TNC successfully aligns so many initiatives, teams, and stakeholders toward common organizational goals, well, you’re in luck, because that’s exactly what Paige does!

Paige and I sat down at the TNC office in Boulder just before the holidays and had a fun conversation that looked back at some of the 2023 conservation wins and looked forward toward TNC’s ambitious goals for the future. We started out discussing Paige’s lifelong appreciation for conservation, and her career that took her from her home state of Utah to Washington DC and eventually to Colorado. We discussed her skill of thinking strategically while also focusing on the need to get things done, and how she has managed to keep so many balls in the air year after year. We talk about durable conservation, collective action, and embracing risk, and we also discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with setting ambitious goals. Paige is a voracious reader and lover of history, so she has tons of excellent book recommendations.

A big thank you to Paige for taking the time to chat with me during such a busy time of year, and, once again, thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo by Ethan Herrold/TNC Photo Contest 2019; headshot by Lauryn Wachs.


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – How Paige became interested in conservation
  • 9:15 – Paige’s first conservation job 
  • 10:45 – Adjusting from the West to DC
  • 11:45 – Paige’s return West
  • 15:00 – How Paige ended up at TNC
  • 18:30 – Paige’s role at TNC
  • 23:30 – An example of successful collaborative work in Paige’s time at TNC
  • 27:15 – What Paige is most proud of in TNC’s 2023 work
  • 30:30 – Reflecting on TNC’s progress towards their 2026 strategic goals
  • 34:30 – How Paige prioritizes and keeps all the balls in the air
  • 39:45 – What “durable conservation” means and looks like to Paige
  • 42:30 – What “collective action” means and looks like to Paige
  • 45:30 – How Paige knows when to shift from ideation and relationship building to action
  • 48:45 – How TNC’s approach to taking risks has changed during Paige’s tenure
  • 52:15 – What qualities Paige thinks makes a good team member at TNC
  • 56:15 – Paige’s book recommendations
  • 1:02:15 – Paige’s parting words

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Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose

Jenna Pollard is a timber framer, a farmer, and an advocate for organic agriculture, but at her core, she is a teacher. The list of Jenna’s inspiring projects, causes, and interests is too extensive to summarize in a few sentences, but to give you an overview: She hosts workshops for women in which they learn the art of timber framing and build structures as a team from the ground up. She’s a team member with Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms (also known as WWOOF), where she helps to provide opportunities for aspiring farmers to build their careers. She’s also a committed traveler, community builder, reader, and all-around inspiring human.

Born and raised in South Dakota, Jenna grew up immersed in the outdoors and various outdoor adventures. After college, she went to work on an organic farm, which began her professional passion for working closely with the land surrounded by a community of like-minded individuals. As you’ll hear, she continued to follow her curiosity and has enjoyed a fulfilling and wide-ranging career– she worked as a teacher in Japan, built her own timber-frame home on the South Dakota prairie, and became deeply involved in helping to develop the skills and confidence of future farmers and timber framers. But if there’s a thread that connects all of Jenna’s work, it’s her commitment to building community through hard work and shared purpose– one of my favorite topics to discuss.

I first learned about Jenna through a short film by Patagonia Workwear that profiled her women’s timber-framing workshops– I’ve linked to the film in the episode notes. So I was thrilled that our schedules aligned so that we could have this conversation, and I learned so much for her. We discussed her upbringing in South Dakota and how her outdoor-focused childhood laid the foundation for her career. We discussed the intricacies of timber framing, and why it is such a powerful skill for building community and confidence. We talk a lot about WWOOF and its Future Farming Program, and Jenna offers some ways that aspiring farmers can get involved. We also discuss books, how Jenna accomplishes so much, how Patagonia has encouraged and supported her work, lessons learned from Japan, and much much more.

If you want to connect with Jenna, attend a workshop, or learn more about WWOOF, there are links to everything in the episode notes. Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Jenna Pollard.


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Topics Discussed:

  • 2:30 – Where Jenna grew up
  • 4:15 – What Jenna did for fun as a kid
  • 6:30 – Turning points in Jenna’s life regarding self-sufficiency in the outdoors
  • 8:45 – Post-high school for Jenna
  • 11:00 – How something like WWOOFing drew Jenna’s career attention
  • 13:30 – Books and thinkers that influenced Jenna’s agrarian lifestyle
  • 16:00 – Defining “timber framing,” and exploring why it captured Jenna’s attention
  • 20:00 – When Jenna decided to start teaching timber framing
  • 21:15 – Discussing the process of Jenna building her house in South Dakota
  • 24:45 – How Jenna came to specifically teach women how to timber frame
  • 38:15 – How Patagonia became interested in Jenna’s timber framing classes
  • 30:45 – Continuing to explore the importance of Jenna’s work with women
  • 33:00 – Jenna’s success stories from her classes
  • 37:15 – The relationships that Jenna builds through timber framing
  • 39:15 – Jenna’s students’ goals
  • 40:45 – Discussing WWOOF
  • 43:15 – Discussing the 2024 Future Farming Program
  • 47:15 – How Jenna manages to do all of this!
  • 48:15 – Jenna’s time as a teacher in Japan
  • 52:30 – Whether or not Jenna ever questioned her path
  • 55:15 – Jenna’s book recommendations
  • 1:01:15 – Jenna’s parting words of wisdom

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Diana Lane & Aaron Derwingson – Thriving Rivers, Resilient Agriculture, and Strong Communities

Diana Lane

Diana Lane is the Director of Sustainable Food and Water at the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy, and Aaron Derwingson is the Water Projects Director for the Nature Conservancy’s Colorado River Program. Both Diana and Aaron work at the intersection of water sustainability, thriving rivers, resilient agriculture, and strong communities– harnessing TNC’s relationships and resources to advance some of the most cutting-edge and effective conservation initiatives in the American West.

Diana and Aaron bring a diverse set of skills and experiences to their work at TNC. Diana holds a PhD in Biological Sciences and has spent much of her career working with a wide array of partners on restoration ecology and planning, climate adaptation, and management of public funding. Aaron is a river guide-turned-conservationist who began his career focusing on conservation in the Rio Grande River basin, and now applies his skills toward creating pragmatic, solution-oriented approaches to freshwater challenges in the greater Colorado River basin. But perhaps most importantly, they both bring a deep level of passion and focus to their work– their optimistic commitment to solving some of the West’s most pressing water and agricultural challenges is infectious.

Aaron Derwingson

Diana, Aaron, and I connected virtually and had an educational and inspiring conversation about water, agriculture, and community here in Colorado and beyond. We discussed some of the most urgent water-related challenges and opportunities and how they are working with a wide range of stakeholders to find mutually beneficial solutions. We discuss the Yampa River fund, their work helping agricultural producers adjust to a drier climate, and the all-important role of building solid relationships with stakeholders. We discussed the Maybell Irrigation Ditch Project, which is a fascinating, win-win project for both producers and recreational river users, and we discussed some of the water-related challenges that keep both Diana and Aaron up and night. And as usual, they both have plenty of excellent book recommendations.  

A huge thank you to Diana and Aaron for taking the time to talk with me, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy!

Header photo by Ken Geiger; all photos courtesy of the Nature Conservancy.


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Diana and Aaron’s backgrounds
  • 7:30 – Aaron’s read on the future of water
  • 12:30 – Diana’s overview of the Yampa River Fund
  • 18:30 – Aaron’s work with producers to adjust to the new water reality
  • 23:15 – The process of building relationships with producers for water projects
  • 27:00 – The Colorado Water Plan’s impact on Diana and Aaron’s work
  • 31:45  – Discussing the Yampa River Fund
  • 41:15 – The things about Colorado water that keep Diana and Aaron up at night
  • 47:15 – What makes a solid conservation professional
  • 51:00 – How you can help TNC in this work
  • 55:30 – Diana and Aaron’s book recommendations
  • 1:00:00 – Parting requests and words of wisdom

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John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire

John Vaillant
(photo credit: John Sinal)

John Vaillant is a renowned writer and journalist whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, National Geographic, and more, and he’s also the author of classic books including The Tiger and The Golden Spruce. His most recent book is titled Fire Weather: A True Story from a Hotter World, which is a must-read for anyone interested in wildfires, humans’ relationship with fire, and the future of fire-related disasters. And you don’t have to take my word for it– the book won the 2023 Baillie Gifford Prize for Non-Fiction and was a finalist for both the National Book Award and the Hilary Weston Writers’ Trust Prize for Nonfiction.

Fire Weather tells the story of the 2016 Fort McMurray wildfire– a historic and apocalyptic fire that torched the city of Fort McMurray, Alberta, and spread across nearly 1.5 million acres of forest. With this epic disaster as the focal point, John masterfully weaves in the fascinating histories of fire, the fossil fuel industry, and climate science. He also explores 21st-century wildfires– why they are hotter, more aggressive, and more destructive than anything we’ve seen before. Whether you’re interested in the science of fire and forest health, the fascinating relationship between humans and fire, or you’re just looking for a book that you won’t be able to put down, I give Fire Weather my highest endorsement.

Wildfires are obviously becoming more and more intense and destructive here in the West, so I was excited to chat with John and dig deeper into the history of fire and the outlook for the future. We discussed why he decided to devote many years to writing about this particular wildfire, and how the book’s ingenious structure came to him in a dream. We talk about the similarities between living beings and fire, a fascinating idea known as the Lucretius Problem, some of the story’s larger-than-life characters, John’s long-term goals for the book, some of his favorite books, and much, much more.

A huge thanks to John for writing such an impactful book and for taking the time to chat with me. I encourage you to pick up a copy of Fire Weather as soon as you can, but in the meantime, enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with John Vaillant.

Header photo: Chris Schwarz / Government of Alberta / Reuters; Headshot: John Sinal


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – When John realized he wanted to write about fire
  • 11:15 – The surprising significance of dreams in John’s writing
  • 14:15 – How John organizes the information in his head so he can write
  • 19:45 – A brief note on pacing, and the similarities between living beings and fire
  • 30:45 – The Lucretius Problem
  • 35:45 – How John finds the characters for his book
  • 44:15 – How John handles writing about someone in a less-than-flattering light
  • 52:00 – John’s goals for his book, Fire Weather
  • 57:30 – John’s book recommendations
  • 1:02:15 – John’s parting words of wisdom

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Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”

Dr. Sara Dant

Dr. Sara Dant is a Brady Presidential Distinguished Professor of history at Weber State University, and she’s the author of one of my most-often recommended books, Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West. She is also one of the featured historians in Ken Burns’ newest documentary, The American Buffalo, which you can watch for free on the PBS website. Sara’s work focuses on environmental politics in the United States with a particular emphasis on the creation and development of consensus and bipartisanism, and she is especially skilled at presenting complex, sometimes controversial topics in an engaging and fun-to-learn manner.

In June of 2023, Sara updated and republished her book Losing Eden– she added some chapters, revised some of the content, and added lots of maps, photos, and additional resources. She somehow managed to make one of my favorite books even better. For anyone who is looking for a thorough yet fun-to-read overview of this complex region known as the American West, I can’t recommend it enough. From the migration of the first humans into North America to modern-day controversies around energy development, the book provides a solid foundation and acts as a launching point to dig into whatever specific time period you may find interesting.

Longtime listeners will remember my first conversation with Sara back in 2018, in which we discussed the early phases of North American environmental history, the tragedy of the commons, conservation vs preservation, and more. In this conversation, we focus on mostly recent environmental history, including the historic environmental legislation of the 1960s and 70s, legendary senator Frank Church, and the backlash to environmental regulation that led to movements such as the Sagebrush Rebellion. We also discuss Sara’s perspective-shifting Alaska adventure, the value of wild places, her experience working with Ken Burns, book recommendations, and much, much more.

I always enjoy my visits with Sara, and I can’t thank her enough for how generous she is with sharing her time, wisdom, and expertise. I’d encourage you to pick up a copy of the new Losing Eden, but in the meantime, enjoy this conversation with Dr. Sara Dant.

Photos courtesy of Sara Dant.


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Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Why Sara decided to republish Losing Eden
  • 7:00 – The guiding idea of “At what cost?”
  • 10:00 – The myth of “right or wrong,” “good or bad”
  • 16:15 – Using history to understand our current political situation
  • 19:30 – Optimistic examples of positive political environmental bipartisanship
  • 23:30 – The legendary Idaho senator, Frank Church
  • 28:00 – James Watt and the backlash to environmental regulation
  • 34:00 – Divisiveness as a power-grabbing tool
  • 43:00 – Sara’s 2019 life-changing trip to Alaska
  • 46:30 – What is the value of wild places?
  • 54:15 – Participating in the new Ken Burns documentary
  • 56:30 – Something new that Sara has recently learned
  • 1:02:30 – Book recommendations and further reading
  • 1:10:30 – Parting words of wisdom

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Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond

Corissa Busse

Corissa Busse is the Buffalo Restoration Program Manager for The Nature Conservancy, where she oversees TNC’s work to advance Tribal-led efforts to restore buffalo, grasslands, and communities at scale. Based in Rapid City, South Dakota, Corissa and her team at TNC partner with organizations including the InterTribal Buffalo Council and the Tanka Fund to bring buffalo back to tribal lands, which not only contributes to healthier, more resilient landscapes, but helps to heal and restore a web of natural relationships that has been broken for hundreds of years.

TNC has been working with buffalo for many decades now, and it owns herds at numerous TNC preserves across the United States. Each year, those herds produce approximately 1,500 buffalo that are in need of new homes, so TNC has begun working with Tribal nations to transfer these buffalo from the TNC preserves onto Native lands. But transferring the animals from one place to another is relatively simple– it’s the trust-building, infrastructure development, and long-term, collaborative vision that requires strong relationships and outside-the-box thinking. As you’ll hear in this conversation, it’s a complex and important project with amazing potential.

I’ve always loved learning about buffalo, and given the recent release of Ken Burns’ newest documentary on this very subject, I was extra excited to chat with Corissa. We started out with the most basic question of all– “Should we call them bison or buffalo?”– and then moved into the more complex topics. We discussed when and why TNC initially became interested in buffalo, TNC’s history of working with Tribal partners, the challenges of overcoming historical realities, the potential for tension between cattle and buffalo producers, specific success stories from TNC’s buffalo restoration work, the all-important role of strong relationships, resources to learn more about buffalo, and Corissa offers some excellent book recommendations.

I greatly appreciate Corissa taking the time out of her busy schedule to educate me on the finer details of buffalo as well as the large-scale vision for TNC’s work. I learned a lot from this conversation, and I know you will too.  Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy.

Header photo by John Fielder courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, headshot courtesy of Corissa Busse


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Is it buffalo or bison?
  • 6:30 – A brief history of buffalo in the US
  • 10:30 – Books and resources that have helped Corissa learn more about the history of buffalo 
  • 13:45 – TNC’s interest in buffalo
  • 17:00 – TNC’s history of relationship-building with Tribal nation partners
  • 22:15 – How buffalo from TNC’s herds are transferred to other partners
  • 23:30 – Exploring the tension between cattle and buffalo businesses
  • 27:15 – Examples of the success of Corissa’s program
  • 31:15 – Measuring success in this work
  • 35:00 – The challenges in this work that Corissa worries about
  • 39:15 – The market for buffalo
  • 42:15 – How Corissa got into work with buffalo
  • 48:00 – The importance of relationships to Corissa’s work
  • 52:30 – Corissa’s book recommendations
  • 56:00 – Ways you can support Corissa’s work, and Corissa’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagonia’s First Fifty Years

Vincent Stanley`

Vincent Stanley is the Director of Philosophy at Patagonia, and he holds the honor of being the company’s longest-serving employee. He is also an author, poet, and a resident fellow at the Yale Center for Business and the Environment. His most recent book, which he co-authored with Patagonia’s founder Yvon Chouinard, is titled The Future of the Responsible Company: What We’ve Learned from Patagonia’s First 50 Years

The book recounts Patagonia’s evolution from its humble beginnings as a small offshoot of Chouinard Equipment for Alpinists to becoming the world’s premiere outdoor apparel brand into its current role of serving as a blueprint for how business can be a force for good in the world. In less than 200 pages, Vincent delves into Patagonia’s greatest business challenges, victories, and missteps, and he explains Patagonia’s never-ending quest to become more responsible, more thoughtful, and more effective in achieving its mission of “saving our home planet.”

My first real exposure to Patagonia’s business model was when I was a student in graduate school, earning my MBA. I read Yvon’s book Let My People Go Surfing, and realized that many of the business lessons and philosophies from Patagonia stood in stark contrast to those of mega-corporations. Patagonia’s approach opened my mind to a different way of thinking about business, one that led me to follow a much different path than I’d planned when I initially showed up at grad school.  So it was a real honor to have the conversation with Vincent and dig even deeper into the philosophies, ideals, and tactics that have made Patagonia such a legendary enigma in the world of big-time business– and a role model for me and countless other business owners.

Vincent and I connected virtually– he was in Maine, I was in Colorado– and we talked about all aspects of the book, as well as his long and storied history at Patagonia. You can check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, and I would highly recommend you pick up a copy of The Future of the Responsible Company– it’s chock full of actionable, applicable wisdom that anyone with a job would benefit from knowing.

Thanks to Vincent for taking the time to chat, thanks to you for listening, and I hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of Patagonia


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – How Vincent became involved in Patagonia
  • 7:00 – Why Vincent and Yvon decided to update The Responsible Company, and a history of changes at Patagonia
  • 24:00 – When Vincent realized there was interest in and demand for the business model and values of Patagonia
  • 28:00 – Differentiating between “responsible” and “sustainable”
  • 31:00 – How Vincent and Patagonia approach the work of marketing
  • 34:30 – The unconventional business performance indicators and evaluations that Patagonia employs
  • 37:15 – Why books are important in Vincent and Patagonia’s work
  • 41:15 – Who and what gives Vincent hope for the future
  • 44:15 – Reconciling the guilt of “messing up”
  • 50:15 – Vincent’s book recommendations
  • 53:00 – Vincent’s parting words of wisdom

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Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”

Rebecca Clarren
(photo credit: Shelby Brakken)

Rebecca Clarren is an award-winning journalist who has been writing about the American West for more than twenty years. Her most recent book is titled The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance. The book is a powerful, nuanced, and deeply personal exploration of her ancestors fleeing antisemitism in Russia and immigrating to the South Dakota prairie at the turn of the 20th century. I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of the book, and I absolutely loved it. Rebecca seamlessly weaves together heavily researched US and Native American history with a vulnerable, clear-eyed examination of her family’s legacy. The result is an engaging story that not only helped me better understand the past, but provided a blueprint for how we can begin to make amends and move forward, both individually and as a nation.

In The Cost of Free Land, Rebecca grapples with the complicated ripple effects of her family settling on the Great Plains– the free land that they received from the US government allowed them to establish a foothold in America, and over time, they found relative stability, especially when compared to their chaotic lives in Russia. But her family’s stability and eventual success came at a steep cost to the Lakota people, who were the victims of stolen land, broken treaties, and the devastating loss of their culture and resources. Contrasting her family’s experience with that of the Lakota makes this story all the more powerful, and speaks volumes about Rebeccs’s skill as a writer and journalist. Again, I loved the book.

Rebecca and I connected the day before the book was published, and we had a wonderful conversation. We started by discussing why she decided to write such a deeply personal story, and how that differs from most of her previous journalistic endeavors. She provides a brief overview of the Lakota people and the laundry list of injustices they faced during westward expansion. We discuss the complicated nature of land ownership on reservations, and how those complications continue even to this day. She explains how the US’s treatment of Native American influenced Hitler and the Nazi Party, and how she personally processes her family’s role in Westward expansion by working with spiritual mentors and exploring her own Jewish faith. We also talk about her career as a journalist, how motherhood has changed her, the challenge of writing, and she has lots of great book recommendations.

Thanks to Rebecca for writing such an important and eye-opening book, and thank you for listening.  Hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Rebecca Clarren and Viking Books.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – When Rebecca decided to write “The Cost of Free Land”
  • 9:15 – Discussing the vulnerable process of capturing not just Rebecca’s story, but her entire family’s story and how it ties in with American histories of stolen land
  • 18:15 – Discussing empathy in the difficult stories of Rebecca’s book
  • 21:30 – A brief history of the Lakota and the injustices they faced during westward expansion
  • 27:00 – Discussing the complicated nature of land ownership on Indigenous reservations, and how the US Government still influences land decisions on reservations
  • 30:45 – Discussing the historical implications of US land theft from Indigenous peoples, including how it influenced the actions of the Nazis during the Holocaust
  • 33:15 – The Six Steps of Repentance and how Rebecca processes the violent past of the US and how she benefited from it  
  • 40:45 – The biggest surprise about Rebecca’s family that she learned in writing this book
  • 43:15 – Surprises in Rebecca’s research about the Lakota
  • 48:00 – Where Rebecca thinks the world of journalism is going
  • 51:15 – Rebecca’s career trajectory
  • 55:15 – How having kids impacted Rebecca’s approach to work
  • 58:30 – The difficulty of writing
  • 59:30 – Rebecca’s book recommendations
  • 1:05:45 – Rebecca’s parting words of wisdom

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Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work

Nick Offerman

Nick Offerman is an actor, author, humorist, and woodworker who is best known for playing the legendary character Ron Swanson on NBC’s Parks and Recreation. But his success as an actor is just the tip of the iceberg– he’s written five New York Times bestselling books, is the narrator of three of Wendell Berry’s audiobooks, and owns and operates Offerman Woodshop, where he and a small collective of woodworkers handcraft everything from spoons to furniture to canoes. And as many of you know, Nick is a staunch advocate for conservation, responsible land stewardship, and sustainable agriculture.

Nick’s most recent book is titled Where the Deer and the Antelope Play: The Pastoral Observations of One Ignorant American Who Loves to Walk Outside, and it’s an excellent, thought-provoking read. It follows Nick on a series of adventures through the American West and English countryside– adventures driven by his desire to better understand conservation, recreation, and humans’ connection to the land and wild places. Along the way, he explores everything from the legacies of John Muir and Aldo Leopold to regenerative agriculture, without shying away from tough, complex topics, such as industrial farming and the conservation movement’s impact on Indigenous cultures. The book also hits on so many underlying ideas that are often explored here on Mountain & Prairie, including nuance, empathy, compassion, curiosity, and doing work that makes the world a better place. I loved the book, and I highly recommend it.

Nick & Ed at Offerman Woodshop

I met up with Nick in Los Angeles at Offerman Woodshop, and we had a fun, inspiring, and at times hilarious conversation about everything from Aldo Leopold’s Land Ethic to Nick’s work as a “traveling clown.” (His words, not mine!) We started out by discussing the life-changing moment when a friend handed him a Wendell Berry book, and how Wendell’s writings and philosophy continue to be one of Nick’s most important sources of inspiration and instruction to this day. We discuss why hard work and being of service to others are so deeply embedded in Nick’s DNA, and the critical role that artists can play in solving societal challenges. We talk about authenticity, the importance of being even-keeled, the need for nuance and open-mindedness, the skill of self-deprecation, enjoying the process of creating, not passing judgment, and much, much more.

Where the Deer and the Antelope Play was just released in paperback, so follow the links in the episode notes to pick up a copy. If you’re a longtime listener, I know you’ll love it. There are also links to Offerman Woodshop, Nick’s touring schedule, and all of his other books, so click through and check it all out.

A thousand thanks to Nick for inviting me to his shop for such an amazing conversation, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Header photo of Nick in Glacier National Park by George Saunders, headshot by Taylor Miller.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – A self-deprecation showdown
  • 5:30 – The impact of Wendell Berry on Nick’s life
  • 10:15 – Of Nick’s family and upbringing, and tying back to Wendell Berry
  • 15:15 – Nick telling the story of when he “made it,” and how that impacted his work ethic
  • 18:30 – Of the ethos of taking the time to do hard things
  • 23:15 – The impact of a conversation between Nick and Wendell Berry
  • 29:00 – More about Nick’s book, Where the Deer and the Antelope Play
  • 42:15 – How Nick discusses serious topics with a lighthearted demeanor
  • 47:30 – How Aldo Leopold influenced Nick
  • 51:45 – A great story about Wendell Berry and the need for artists
  • 55:15 – How and when Nick developed his authenticity 
  • 1:02:00 – The two jokes Nick has written in his career
  • 1:05:45 – What good work looks like
  • 1:18:00 – Discussing how to pronounce words and the importance of not passing judgment
  • 1:23:15 – Coming back to “good work”

Information Referenced:



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Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea

Matt Cahill

Matt Cahill is the Sagebrush Sea Program Director for the Nature Conservancy. Based out of Bend, Oregon, Matt leads all of TNC’s critical work restoring, managing, and protecting sagebrush habitat across six western states. This is a huge and complex effort– it combines protection and policy work with ground-breaking restoration advances, public and industry partnerships, and local community projects. But as you’ll hear in this conversation, Matt is optimistically leaning into the challenge and making great strides to protect this uniquely Western ecosystem.

To give you some context into the vastness of North America’s sagebrush ecosystem, it spans 150 million acres and is home to 350 rare, threatened, and endangered species. Since 1998, 14 million acres of sagebrush ecosystems have been lost, and currently, we’re losing approximately one million acres to invasive species, catastrophic wildfires, development, improper grazing, and climate change. 70% of the Sagebrush Sea is found on public lands, so efforts to protect, manage, and restore the ecosystem are dependent on creative, action-oriented public-private partnerships. Again, Matt is leading a huge and complex effort!

In this episode, we start our conversation by discussing why the Sagebrush Sea is important, and why even people who live far from the ecosystem should care about it. We discuss the history of the threats to sagebrush, and we also do a deep dive into the specific threat of cheatgrass– a true scourge on the landscapes of the West. We discuss the ecology of sagebrush, how TNC measures success when it comes to protecting such a fragile ecosystem, and the importance of partnering with ranchers. We talk about the efficacy of for-profit approaches to restoration, collaboration with government agencies, and specific cutting-edge approaches to restoration. Matt also explains his career trajectory that led him from the East Coast to becoming obsessed with sagebrush, and he offers several great book recommendations.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, including a few videos and writings by Matt that will provide even more context into this nuanced issue. Thanks to Matt and his team for all of their hard work, and thank you for listening. Hope you enjoy.

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

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Download on Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Description of the Sagebrush Sea
  • 7:45 – Why sagebrush matters
  • 10:30 – The state of the Sagebrush Sea and how it got there
  • 15:15 – Cheatgrass’s impact on the Sagebrush Sea
  • 23:30 – TNC’s Sagebrush Sea program
  • 26:45 – Exploring the restoration aspect of Matt’s work
  • 33:15 – The restoration timeline for sagebrush regions
  • 35:30 – Measuring restoration success
  • 39:00 – The management portion of Matt’s work
  • 41:30 – Matt’s success stories of collaborating with ranchers
  • 46:00 – The land protection (acquisition, easement, etc.) portion of Matt’s work
  • 49:15 – Evaluating the for-profit wing of conservation of sage grouse habitat
  • 43:15 – Discussing TNC’s collaboration across its own programs as well as with government land managers
  • 57:00 – How Matt ended up an expert in sagebrush biomes when he grew up on the East Coast
  • 1:00:30 – Matt’s book recommendations
  • 1:04:00 – Matt’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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James Prosek – Art, Philosophy, & Our Natural World

James Prosek in Texas

James Prosek is an artist, writer, and naturalist whose work deeply examines our relationship with the natural world. Over the course of his career, he’s focused his artist’s eye and philosopher’s mind on everything from trout to eels, from birds to ocean fishes. For the past two years, he’s been focused on understanding and documenting the grasslands of Texas, and he’s traveled the state examining the diverse plants and wildlife that call the prairie ecosystem home. Beginning on September 16, 2023, the results of his journey around Texas will be on display at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, in his new exhibition titled Trespassers: James Prosek and the Texas Prairie

James was born in Connecticut and, as you’ll hear in our conversation, much of his childhood was spent obsessed with birds, fish, and fishing. He attended Yale Univesity, where at age 19 he published his first book titled Trout: An Illustrated History, which featured seventy of his watercolor paintings of the trout of North America. From there, his curiosity about the natural world continued to intensify, as evidenced by his prolific production of art and writing for many renowned museums and publications. He has also lent his talents to a variety of conservation efforts, most notably his partnership with Yvon Chionard to protect coldwater fisheries habitat. 

James and I share many mutual friends and interests, so it was wonderful to connect with him for this conversation. It’ll only take you a few minutes of listening to realize that James is a deep thinker whose art is the manifestation of his extremely nuanced and fascinating ideas and philosophies. We started out talking about his first memory of interacting with nature, and how he has used drawing and journaling as tools to better understand plants, animals, and concepts. We discuss how the idea of naming plants and animals is an imperfect science, how drawing connects us with our evolutionary past, how philosophy and philosophical thinking inform all of his art, grasslands in Texas, the importance of understanding and respecting place, how James snaps out of creative slumps, his writing process, and he offers plenty of book recommendations. 

As is the case with so many of my guests, I could’ve talked to James for many more hours. So thankfully, this conversation is part one of what will be a two-episode series with James. The second episode will be a live event at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, on Thursday, January 11, 2024. We’ll be continuing this conversation, and we’ll be focusing in more detail on his exploration of the Texas Prairie and his new exhibition, Trespassers. We’ll be releasing more information about this event soon, but I’d love to see some of you at the event in Fort Worth on January 11.

A huge thank you to James for his inspiring art, to the Amon Carter Museum for the opportunity to chat with James, and to all of you for listening. Enjoy!

Two pieces from the new exhibition, “Trespassers”

Photos courtesy of James Prosek and the Amon Carter Museum of American Art.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – James’ first memory of interacting with nature
  • 7:00 – When journaling and drawing became standard practices for James
  • 10:15 – James’ view on drawing and its connection to our evolutionary past as hunters 
  • 15:15 – How drawing fish made James a better angler
  • 20:45 – How names affect our thinking about other organisms
  • 24:15 – The art that James engaged in parallel to fishing
  • 28:00 – How James sharpens his philosophy 
  • 39:45 – James’ writing process
  • 43:00 – How James establishes connections with places
  • 1:00:15 – Whether or not James has gone through an artistic slump
  • 1:10:00 – James’ parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work

Anna Borgman
Photo by Chloe Nostrant

Anna Borgman is a Montana-based butcher, chef, and writer whose work focuses on helping people better understand and appreciate the origins of their food. Whether writing an article for Steven Rinella’s MeatEater or helping to field harvest and process a bison, Anna has a gift for helping curious, conscientious people become more educated about the impacts of their food choices. And as you’ll hear in this conversation, her enthusiasm and authenticity are infectious– even after more than an hour of chatting, I felt we only scratched the surface.

Anna grew up in Oregon, and thanks to participation in 4H, she was involved with animals and livestock from an early age. During her teenage years, skiing became her primary passion, and she devoted much of her post-college life to spending as many days as possible in the mountains, oftentimes working multiple jobs to make ends meet. Eventually, through a serendipitous chain of events that we discuss, she found her way into culinary school, which was her gateway into the world of meat and butchery. Through all the various stages of Anna’s career, she’s brought intense devotion– possibly even obsession– to her work, which has resulted in a fascinating life trajectory that is both inspiring and instructive.

Anna and I share so many mutual friends and I’ve been hearing about her and her work for many years, so I was thrilled to have her finally join me for a conversation. We started out discussing her childhood in Oregon and how skiing became her primary focus for so many years. We discuss some of her adventurous international travel experiences, and how those places and the characters she met led her into the world of food. We discuss the upsides of obsession, advice for getting out of ruts, the value of curiosity, and the importance of experiencing other cultures. She also talks in detail about the realities of slaughtering livestock, why she feels such a connection to butchery, her favorite books, and much more.

Even though this was my first time meeting Anna, I felt like I was chatting with an old friend. I’m super-inspired by all of her work, but even more inspired by the focus and passion she brings to everything she does. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Photos courtesy of Anna Borgman and Chloe Nostrant


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:00 – What Anna wanted to be when she grew up
  • 7:30 – When Anna realized that most livestock she raised would led to slaughter 
  • 10:00 – Anna’s interest in skiing and how it led her to work with a French cook in Australia and adventures in Spain
  • 16:30 – Anna’s experience in culinary school
  • 20:15 – Why so many interesting people have pastry making on their resume
  • 22:15 – When Anna became interested in butchery, and whether or not working long days in culinary school made Anna feel more content
  • 25:45 – The importance of having an obsession
  • 28:45 – Anna’s advice for getting out of a rut 
  • 32:00 – The scariest things that have happened to Anna during international travel, as well as the lessons travel taught her
  • 38:30 – When Anna went all in on butchery
  • 43:00 – The process of slaughtering and butchering
  • 46:30 – Anna’s first slaughter
  • 51:45 – Lessons from butchery
  • 57:00 – The value of curiosity 
  • 59:45 – Discussing Forage Fed
  • 1:03:45 – Anna’s book recommendations
  • 1:09:00 – Anna’s guilty pleasures (or lack thereof)
  • 1:14:00 – Anna’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Carrie Segil & Duncan Gilchrist – Catalyzing Conservation in Colorado and Beyond

Carrie Segil

Carrie Segil is the People and Culture Manager at The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and Duncan Gilchrist is a Climate and Natural Resources Policy Associate at The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. Both Carrie and Duncan are deeply involved with TNC Colorado’s Catalyst Fund, a cutting-edge conservation funding initiative that supports forward-looking projects that enable innovation and rapid learning, both to test new ideas and to build greater capacity for innovation over the long term.

One of the Catalyst Fund’s most notable projects involves agrivoltaics, which is the simultaneous use of land for both solar energy production and agriculture. The project is called the Agrivoltaics Retrofit Partnership, and it’s a Boulder-based partnership between TNC, Jack’s Solar Garden, Drylands Agroecology Research, Boulder Housing Partners, and a conservation-justice / community outreach partner called FLOWS. The project aims to achieve multiple conservation and community objectives, including restoring degraded land, producing perennial plants with medicinal, economic, and indigenous cultural value, and providing a host of benefits to local marginalized community members– benefits that we discuss in this episode.

Duncan Gilchrist

In this episode, we talk in detail about this specific agrivoltaics project, as well as some of the other innovative projects that are being pushed forward thanks to support from the Catalyst Fund. We discussed how and why TNC Colorado decided to create the Catalyst Fund in the first place, and the need to push boundaries and take risks in the conservation space. Carrie offers insights into specific Catalyst projects, such as virtual fencing for bison, and Duncan discusses all the details about this agrivoltaics project– including the genesis of the idea, the challenges of the projects, and why it has proven to be so successful and replicable. We also discuss how policy on the state and federal level is creating more opportunities for agrivoltaics, why it garners bipartisan support, and lessons learned from all of the Catalyst Fund projects.

I was so impressed with Carrie and Duncan’s enthusiasm, professionalism, and commitment to innovation, and I learned so much from this conversation. Be sure to check out the episode notes to learn more about everything we discussed, and please share this episode with any friends or colleagues who might find it valuable.  Thanks so much for listening, I hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – An overview of the Catalyst Fund
  • 7:00 – Talking to funders about the Catalyst Fund
  • 8:45 – How TNC evaluates what it is looking for regarding the Catalyst Fund
  • 10:30 – Duncan’s project
  • 12:45 – Duncan’s job before his agrivoltaics project
  • 14:45 – More on Duncan’s project and his site
  • 19:00 – About Boulder Housing Partners, and how they reacted to Duncan’s idea
  • 20:30 – How Duncan worked to turn the rocky land he was working into agricultural land
  • 22:30 – The outlook for Duncan’s project, and how it stacks up against his expectations
  • 25:00 – The federal and state (CO) push for more projects like Duncan’s
  • 28:00 – Why agrivoltaics seems to garner bipartisan support
  • 29:30 – Why everyone isn’t doing agrivoltaics 
  • 31:30 – The potential for grazing under agrivoltaics
  • 32:30 – Other synergies between solar energy and agriculture
  • 33:30 – Carrie’s outlook on Duncan’s project, and some other projects funded by the Catalyst Fund
  • 36:45 – What it’s like for TNC to work with external partners
  • 37:45 – Other projects funded through the Catalyst Funds
  • 40:00 – Big lessons from the Catalyst Fund project
  • 45:00 – The power of advocating for policy
  • 47:15 – Where the Catalyst Fund is going
  • 51:00 – Carrie and Duncan’s book recommendations
  • 53:45 – Closing thoughts

Information Referenced:



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David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival

David James Duncan is one of those Western literary legends who needs no introduction to Mountain & Prairie listeners. But for those of you who may be new to the podcast or to Western literature, David is a renowned Montana novelist, activist, and flyfisherman. He’s the author of The River Why and The Brothers K, and his newest novel Sun House hits shelves today. David is also the author of countless nonfiction essays, many of which have been compiled in books such as My Story as Told by Water, River Teeth, and God Laughs & Plays.

This episode was recorded live at the first-annual Old Salt Festival, which was held on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. The festival was a three-day celebration of land stewardship and wild places, and it featured live music, wood-fired cooking, and discussions about conservation, literature, and the power of place. Given that so much of David’s work as an author and activist is heavily influenced by his love of land, water, and wildlife, he brought a wise and thoughtful perspective to the Festival– a perspective that was greatly appreciated by everyone in attendance.

This episode is split into two parts– first is our on-stage conversation, which took place on Saturday morning, followed by two readings from his new novel Sun House, which took place that evening. In our conversation, I focused in on David’s life as a contemplative. We talk about his upbringing in the Pacific Northwest and his eventual move to Montana, which is the place he now considers his home. We discuss the importance of being able to hold two competing ideas in your mind at once, why he felt called to become an activist, why deep friendships are such an important part of his life, and the women who have served as mentors to him. We also talk about his 16-year process of writing Sun House, the difference between creating ideas versus receiving them, what gives David hope for the future, and much more.  

The second part of the episode features two readings from Sun House, both of which were perfectly aligned with the spirit and mood of the Old Salt Festival. From where I was sitting in the crowd, I saw many people tearing up near the end of David’s reading, so I hope the power of his words and the place come through in this audio. It was an extremely special experience that I will not soon forget.

A huge thank you to David for his kindness, generosity, and for all of his contributions to the culture and conservation of the West. Thank you to the Old Salt Festival for giving me this opportunity to talk with David. And thank you for listening.

If you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to pick up a copy of Sun House– it’s available online or in your favorite local bookstore right now!

My advanced copy of David’s new, beautifully epic novel, Sun House

All photos by Anthony Pavkovich


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:30 – Intros
  • 7:30 – Discussing if Montana is home to David
  • 10:30 – How David came to write about Montana
  • 12:30 – How to hold two ideas in your head (the brutal US past and the landscape beauty we see presently)
  • 14:55 – David’s transition from fiction to nonfiction writing
  • 19:30 – Advice on how to take a stand
  • 21:45 – David’s friends
  • 26:30 – David’s women mentors
  • 30:30 – Writing Sun House
  • 34:30 – The benefits and challenges of writing something so emotional as Sun House
  • 38:00 – Whether or not David is creating ideas or receiving them while writing
  • 41:30 – What makes David feel good about the future
  • 43:30 – Reading 1
  • 58:15 – Reading 2

Information Referenced:



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Erik Glenn Returns – Leadership, Innovation, & Commitment to Conservation

Erik Glenn

This is the 200th episode of Mountain & Prairie, so I decided to celebrate the milestone by bringing back the first-ever M&P guest, my good friend Erik Glenn. Erik is the Executive Director of the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust, a statewide conservation organization that protects Colorado’s agricultural land, heritage, and families for future generations by conserving working rural landscapes. Erik is also the President of the Partnership of Rangeland Trusts, a collection of nine ag-based, western land trusts who work together to “advocate for the conservation of working lands and western heritage for the benefit and wellbeing of future generations.”

When Erik and I spoke for episode number one all the way back in the spring of 2016, he was only about a year into his role as Executive Director. At that point, the organization had conserved just over 465,000 acres of land in Colorado. Fast forward seven and a half years to today, Erik and his team have added an additional 300,000 acres of conserved land, bringing the total to more than 765,000 acres. But most importantly, CCALT has served as a loyal and trusted partner for more than 400 agricultural families who are deeply committed to conserving Colorado’s western heritage and working landscapes.

I consider Erik a great friend and a wise mentor, and if not for his kindness, encouragement, and counsel, I doubt there would be a Mountain & Prairie, nor would I have ever worked in the conservation world. We sat down at his office in Lakewood and caught up on everything, including: how Erik spurs innovation without losing sight of the basics of land conservation; his thoughts on building culture and retaining the best team members; balancing his own intense work ethic with his desire set reasonable-yet-high expectations for his team; how having kids has changed him; the growth of PORT; his mentors; the evolution of the perception of conservation easements in the ag community; threats and opportunities; book recommendations; and much more.

A big thanks to Erik for letting me use him as a guinea pig for the first episode back in 2016, and for his willingness to join me again for episode 200. But more importantly, thanks to Erik for his leadership and commitment to conservation in Colorado, the West, and beyond. Hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of CCALT.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – What the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust is
  • 11:00 – How Erik balances innovation with the basics of conservation
  • 15:30 – How Erik actually implements a culture in the workplace
  • 23:30 – How Erik balances his work ethic with the desire to not set unreasonable work expectations for his team
  • 29:30 – How having kids impacted Erik
  • 35:45 – Discussing PORT
  • 46:00 – Discussing whether or not good conservation tools have become good business tools for land owners 
  • 50:00 – Erik’s mentors
  • 58:00 – The biggest threat and opportunity facing conservation
  • 1:10:30 – Erik’s book recommendations
  • 1:13:30 – Erik’s parting words

Information Referenced:



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SHED SESSION: Everything I Know About Landing a Job in the Conservation World

For many years now, listeners have been emailing me with lots of different versions of the same basic question:

“How do I get a job in the conservation world?” 

Some of the inquiries come from college students or young professionals, while others come from folks who are deep into a specific career path but want to make a change. I’m always happy to receive these messages, and I’m flattered that anyone would think I have valuable advice to offer.

Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to provide what I believe to be a suitable answer, mainly because I could not do the question justice within the constraints of email or social media. And over the last few years, the volume of messages has reached a point that I simply cannot keep up with it all– so if you’ve reached out and I have not responded, my sincere apologies.

For (at least) the past three years, I’ve been considering answering this question in podcast form, thinking the episode could serve as a detailed resource for anyone who asked the question… and for those who will in the future. But I’ve procrastinated or rationalized reasons not to, mainly because I felt extremely uncomfortable about sitting by myself, blabbing my thoughts and ideas into a microphone. I never want to come off as a know-it-all or some kind of wannabe internet guru.

But the volume of the incoming messages kept increasing, so I finally decided to put my ego and self-consciousness aside and just answer the question in podcast form.

I wrote an eight-page outline that laid out everything I know about finding a job in the conservation world, then I sat down in The Shed and let ‘er rip. The result is a ridiculously long soliloquy in which I put it all out there. I’m calling it a Shed Session.

Please keep in mind that this episode is simply a recounting of my own personal and professional experience– it’s not some kind of one-size-fits-all “hack” that will lead you directly to your dream job. I’ve long said that I am the last person anyone should be asking for career advice, and there are certainly tons of people who are much more experienced and accomplished in conservation than I am.

But for those of you who did ask, this episode is for you. I lay it all out, including: my specific career path; my specific job in the conservation field; skills that are needed in the conservation sector; why relationship building is the most important skill; how I built a deep and broad network in Colorado despite only knowing one person when I moved here in 2010; why I think networks are the most valuable assets, what I looked for when I was hiring for conservation roles; what you should look for (and avoid) in conservation organizations; pros and cons of working in non-profit conservation, book recommendations, and more. Links to everything are in the episode notes.

Again, all of this is just my personal experience and my possibly weird ideas about doing purpose-driven work. For those of you who have reached out, I hope this adds some value. For everyone else, we’ll be back to the regularly scheduled interviews later this week.

Thanks for listening!


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WATCH ON PATREON:


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:12 – Intro, Questions, and Goals
  • 10:20 – Disclaimers
  • 13:58 – Discussion outline
  • 15:45 – My career path
  • 19:53 – My specific job in conservation
  • 22:30 – How I built a network from scratch
  • 40:01 – Advice on how to build a network
  • 48:55 – What I looked for when I was hiring
  • 54:39 – What you should look for in a conservation organization
  • 1:05:51 – Book Recommendations
  • 1:15:05 – Pros and cons
  • 1:22:22 – Closing thoughts

Information Referenced:



To check out dozens of past episodes featuring conservationists from around the West, visit the podcast page and choose “conservationists” from the dropdown menu!

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Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom

Vice Chairman Lorelei Cloud
Photo: Jeremy Wade Shockley

Lorelei Cloud is a member of the Southern Ute Indian Tribe and currently serves as Vice Chairman of the Southern Ute Indian Tribal Council. Lorelei’s commitment to conservation, leadership development, and Ute language, traditions, and culture is evident by the staggering number of leadership roles she holds– she is Co-Chairman of the Indigenous Women’s Leadership Network, a Board Trustee for the Nature Conservancy, and serves on the Colorado River Basin’s Water & Tribes Initiative. Earlier this year, she was appointed by the Governor of Colorado to serve on the Colorado Water Conservation Board (“CWCB”), making her the first-ever Tribal member of the board.

Lorelei was born and raised on the Southern Ute Reservation, which is located in the far southwestern corner of Colorado. From the very beginning, water has played a central role in Lorelei’s life– much of her childhood was spent without running water and access to drinking water continues to be a challenge on the Reservation to this day. Much of Lorelei’s early career was spent working in various businesses, including banking and energy, all while being a mother and raising four children. In 2015, she was elected to the Tribal Council, which began this new phase of her life and career– a phase devoted to serving her Tribal Community, as well as the communities, landscapes, and natural resources of the American West.

I’ve been hearing such great things about Lorelei for years, so I was honored to have the opportunity to chat with her on the podcast. We enjoyed a wide-ranging conversation about her upbringing on the Southern Ute Reservation, the history of the Southern Ute Tribe, her recent appointment to the CWCB, why she decided to devote herself to public service, the goals of the Indigenous Women’s Leadership Network, her work with the Nature Conservancy, the need to elevate Tribal voices on issues of water and land conservation in the West and beyond, advice for aspiring leaders, her favorite books, ways the listeners can get involved and support the work of the Southern Ute Tribe, and much more.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything. A huge thanks to Lorelei for taking the time out of her busy schedule to talk with me and for her deep commitment to doing such impactful work in Colorado and beyond. Enjoy!

Header photo by Trennie Collins, Portrait by Jeremy Wade Shockley


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Lorelei’s youth on the Southern Ute Reservation
  • 6:15 – How Lorelei’s family would get water
  • 8:15 – Lorelei’s childhood personality, school years, and early jobs
  • 13:30 – Whether or not Lorelei wanted to stay on the reservation
  • 15:30 – A brief Ute history
  • 19:00 – How Lorelei’s appointment as the first Indigenous representative on the CWCB
  • 22:15 – What the CWCB does
  • 27:30 – How Lorelei decided to pursue public service
  • 30:15 – About the Indigenous Women’s Leadership Network
  • 34:00 – Lorelei’s advice for aspiring leaders
  • 36:15 – Lorelei’s mentors
  • 40:30 – About Lorelei’s role as Vice Chairman of the Southern Ute Tribe
  • 43:00 – How Lorelei became involved with TNC and how she evaluates whether or not to pursue a professional opportunity
  • 48:15 – Whether or not Deb Haaland has elevated Tribal voices through her work
  • 52:00 – Lorelei’s book recommendations
  • 55:00 – How you can help Lorelei’s work
  • 56:00 – Lorelei’s words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Christy Sing Robertson – On Grit, Hard Work, & Going All In

Christy Sing Robertson
photo credit: Alexandra Rapadas Munger

Christy Sing Robertson is a hatmaker and the founder and owner of Sing Hat Company. Based in Jackson, Wyoming, Christy has evolved rather quickly from making a few hats for herself and several friends into becoming one of the most popular and sought-after hat makers in the West. Whether she’s hand-shaping palm leaf hats for hundreds of people at events such as last month’s Old Salt Festival or creating a custom felt hat for a 5th generation rancher or celebrity musician, Christy’s humility, curiosity, and commitment to the craft have allowed her to stand out in the crowded field of custom hatmakers.

Christy was born and raised in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas, and she stayed there for the first half of her career, working as a high-performing salesperson in the insurance industry. But despite her success in the conventional and lucrative world of sales, she felt called to the West and decided to uproot her life and move to Jackson, Wyoming. Even though she moved to Jackson without knowing a soul, she managed to establish roots and build a fulfilling life centered around motherhood, hard work, and leading a thoughtful, intentional life. And along the way, just as she felt a calling to move to Wyoming, she felt called to make hats– so she went all-in. Today, Christy’s hats– and her long list of customers– demonstrate the amazing success she’s achieved in a relatively short amount of time.

I’ve been following Christy’s work for many years now, so I was thrilled to finally have a chance to chat with her on the podcast. Her story is amazingly inspiring and speaks to the importance of grit, risk-taking, working hard, humility, and trusting your gut. We covered a lot during our hour together, including: her upbringing in Arkansas and her success in the insurance business; the spiritual event that led her to move to Wyoming; how motherhood changed her; the focus and hustle required to make ends meet as a single mother; hunting big game for food; balancing the artistic side of hatmaking with the all-important need to earn a living; the increasing wealth inequality in Jackson; the importance of friendships with other artisans and makers; why imposter syndrome can be a good thing; techniques for keeping an even keel; favorite books; and much more.

If you haven’t checked out Christy’s website or followed her on social media, I recommend that you do– there are links in the episode notes to all of that and everything else we discussed. But in the meantime, I know you’ll enjoy this inspiring and motivational conversation with Christy Sing Robertson.

Photos courtesy of Sing Hat Company, header photo by Jamie Johnson.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:30 – Christy’s childhood
  • 9:00 – Christy’s life post high school
  • 10:45 – When making things clothes came into Christy’s life
  • 12:00 – How Christy came to the Rocky Mountains, and how it changed her
  • 23:00 – What Christy’s work and life was like after moving to Wyoming
  • 25:15 – When hatmaking entered Christy’s life
  • 27:30 – How Christy’s life changed after she had kids
  • 32:00 – How Christy became self-sufficient in hunting
  • 35:30 – Back to hats 
  • 39:00 – Whether or not Christy ever reconsidered her decision to make hats
  • 40:55 – When Christy felt she was good at making hats
  • 42:45 – How relationship building impacted Christy’s business
  • 44:15 – How it went when Christy went full into making hats for a living
  • 46:45 – How Christy manages the prices of Jackson, WY
  • 50:15 – How Christy keeps an even keel
  • 51:30 – How a community of makers has impacted Christy’s journey and career
  • 55:15 – Reflecting on how Christy got where she is in her craft and career
  • 58:45 – Christy’s advice for aspiring makers
  • 1:01:15 – Christy’s vision for Sing Hats
  • 1:05:00 – Christy’s book recommendations
  • 1:07:00 – Christy’s parting words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival

L-R: Ed, Cole Mannix, Kate Kavanaugh, Dan Miller, and Wyatt Nelson (Photo by Anthony Pavkovich)

This is a special live episode that was recorded in late June 2023 at the first-ever Old Salt Festival, which was held on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. The Old Salt Festival is a three-day celebration of ranching, land stewardship, and wild places that features live Western music, wood-fired cooking, products from some of the West’s most renowned artisans, readings and interviews with Western authors and poets, and in-depth discussions about conservation and land stewardship. The festival was a resounding success, so I’m thrilled to share one of the many conversations with you here.

The episode is a panel discussion titled Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain, featuring several of the West’s leading voices in sustainable meat production and regenerative agriculture. In order of their appearance in the episode, you’ll hear from Cole Mannix, President of the Old Salt Co-op; Kate Kavanaugh, owner of Western Daughters Butcher Shoppe and host of the Mind, Body, and Soil Podcast; Dan Miller, Founder of Steward; and Wyatt Nelson, President of Wild West Local Foods. As you’ll hear, each panelist is deeply immersed in a different aspect of the meat production supply chain, and each of them brings a unique and wise perspective to the challenges facing producers and small businesses involved in meat production.

Many of you may already know, but the Old Salt Festival is a part of the Old Salt Co-op, a new, purpose-driven company that “provides meat raised with integrity from Montana landscapes its customers know and care about.” The Old Salt Co-op is working to rebuild the meat business in Montana, creating a sustainable business model that is beneficial to local ranchers, local consumers, and local economies– all while responsibly and effectively stewarding the lands that support agriculture. Rebuilding Montana’s meat supply chain is no small feat, but with smart, purpose-driven people like Cole, Kate, Dan, and Wyatt working to find solutions, I think you’ll be both inspired and encouraged.

To learn more about the Old Salt Co-op, you can go back to my first podcast conversion with Cole from February of 2023. And be on the lookout for another live Old Salt Festival episode, which I’ll be releasing on August 8, 2023– that one will feature a conversation with famed western author David James Duncan followed by a reading from his new novel Sun House.  

A huge thanks to Cole and the Old Salt team for inviting me to the Festival, and a huge thanks to the Mannix Family for sharing their stunning ranch with all of us. Thanks to Cole, Kate, Dan, and Wyatt for sharing their wisdom. And last but definitely not least, thanks to the one and only, always hilarious and energetic Bex Frucht for the amazing intro. Hope you enjoy.

Photos by Anthony Pavkovich for the Old Salt Festival


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:45 – Introductions
  • 6:15 – The challenge and opportunity that Cole saw, leading to the development of Old Salt Co-op
  • 9:00 – What Kate sees as major potential challenges for Old Salt Co-op going forward
  • 12:15 – What attracted Dan to finance regenerative agriculture, especially given that industry’s tight margins
  • 15:00 – Wyatt’s introduction, as well as the roadblocks that Wyatt sees to a more resilient food system from the distribution side of things
  • 17:15 – How the panel members go about getting people’s attention
  • 24:45 – The work Cole’s family and neighbors have done to protect the local landscape, as well as trends in young people getting involved with agriculture
  • 32:15 – What Kate is seeing on the retail side of meat production, and how to address it
  • 38:15 – What Old Salt Co-op is working on right now
  • 41:15 – What we can do that would help build a resilient meat and food system

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health

Rob Addington

Rob Addington is the Director of the Forest and Fire Program with The Nature Conservancy in Colorado. He and his team are focused on increasing the pace and scale of forest restoration in Colorado to reduce hazardous fuels and promote landscape resilience to natural disturbances such as wildfire as well as climate change.

You don’t have to live in the West to know that the region has been battling ongoing drought, historically large and intense wildfires, and various forms of insect-induced forest devastation. Over the past few years here in Colorado, we’ve experienced some of the most destructive wildfires in recorded history, and the pine beetle infestation continues to be a source of serious and increasing concern. And Colorado is obviously not alone– there are similar stories of struggling forests throughout all of the Western states.

While the current conditions may be dire, you’ll be happy to know that Rob and his team at The Nature Conservancy are working extremely hard to find collaborative, creative, and effective solutions to the challenges facing our forests here in the West. By partnering with government agencies, Tribal nations, private landowners, various non-profits, and more, TNC has been leading and implementing some of the most innovative forest health work in the country– work that is creating more resilient, healthy landscapes across hundreds of thousands of acres.

For all the listeners who have been asking for a wildfire and forest health-focused episode, this one is for you. I met up with Rob at the TNC office in Boulder, and he was kind enough to educate me on both the big picture and finer details of all things forest health. You can check out the notes for a full list of everything we discussed, but a few of the topics include: The infamous 2020 wildfire season and the outlook for 2023, the history of land management and how that has affected wildfires, pine beetles, wildfire’s effects on water quality, how beavers can play a role in fire mitigation, some specific success stories, business solutions for forest health, the all-important focus on partnerships, post-fire land management strategies, good books, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode webpage for links to everything, including TNC’s exciting new Western Division Forest and Fire Initiative.

A huge thanks to Rob for taking the time to answer all my questions and another huge thanks to TNC for leading all of this important work. I hope you enjoy!

Headshot courtesy of The Nature Conservancy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Download on Apple Podcasts

Download on Spotify

Download on Google Podcasts

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the fourth Tuesday of every month throughout 2023, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West. You can access all of the 2023 episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in Colorado and around the world, visit www.nature.org/colorado


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Discussing the fire season of 2020
  • 9:45 – The outlook for the fire season of 2023
  • 12:00 – Discussing the variability in Colorado’s recent fire seasons
  • 14:45 – The causes for Colorado’s changing fire seasons
  • 17:30 – Exploring, specifically, the role of historic land management and how it impacts fire behavior
  • 20:30 – Discussing pine beetles
  • 26:00 – How the forest regime progresses in beetle-killed stands without fire, and how changing fire behavior is impacting the forest regime
  • 32:00 – How fires impact water
  • 39:15 – Discussing potential solution strategies for Colorado’s fire situation
  • 42:00 – Discussing the importance of managing partnerships in this work
  • 44:45 – A specific, fire-related project that Rob is happy about
  • 47:15 – Exploring the potential of a for-profit business that is incentivized to thin out fire-prone forests
  • 50:30 – Beavers’ role in wildfire prevention
  • 54:30 – Rob’s favorite period of history to read about
  • 56:30 – Management strategies for an area that has been wiped clean by fire
  • 1:00:30 – Rob’s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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David Gessner Returns – “A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World”

David and his furry friend in our podcast “studio”

David Gessner is no stranger to Mountain & Prairie listeners– he’s joined me for many episodes and is the author of many of my favorite books, including All the Wild That Remains, Leave It As It Is, My Green Manifesto, and more. His newest book is A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World: Tales of Fire, Wind, and Water, which once again showcases David’s unique ability to combine humor, travel, and memoir in service of connecting the reader with the natural world.

A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World chronicles David’s journeys around the country, where he finds himself in the middle of an unsettling number of climate disasters– from historic forest fires in the American West to hurricanes on North Carolina’s Outer Banks. Eschewing the ubiquitous facts, figures, and policy debates that often dominate climate-focused books, David does what he does best: he tells stories. Specifically, he tells impactful, insightful stories from the front lines of the climate crisis– stories that will stick with the reader for years to come.

As has been our tradition for several years now, David and I met up in Boulder, Colorado, where he and his family visit each summer. We obviously talk a lot about the book, but as is the case whenever we get together, the conversation flows into many fun and unexpected topics. You can check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, but some of the topics include: David’s recent writing workshop at the Zapata Ranch with his friend, author Craig Childs, the importance of momentum and dailiness in writing, how David’s daughter was the influence for the new book, optimism vs pessimism when reporting current events, thoughts on death and loss, David’s good friend, the late Mark Spitzer, the next generation of conservation-minded writers, some book recommendations, the idea of being a “polygamist of place,” and much more.

I’m always happy to have the opportunity to sit down with David for a conversation, so I greatly appreciate his carving out the time. I hope you can check out A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World, and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Photos courtesy of David Gessner


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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… or wherever you get your podcasts!


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – David’s Zapata Ranch retreat
  • 6:45 – Discussing the power of “dailiness”
  • 7:45 – Whether or not teaching helped in David’s practice of writing
  • 9:00 – How many books David has written in the past 18 months
  • 10:30 – How David knows when an idea becomes a book in his mind
  • 16:45 – David’s goal for A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World, including how he balanced stories with statistics and humor with the weight of the subject
  • 20:45 – Evaluating how the news of the West is reported
  • 27:45 – What David means when he identifies as a “polygamist of place”
  • 33:15 – David’s relationship with Mark Spitzer
  • 39:30 – How David feels about entering a stage in life where his friends are beginning to pass away
  • 43:45 – Discussing David’s daughter, climate change, and how they figure into A Traveler’s Guide
  • 50:30 – David discussing the various tools he would like to use to face climate change 
  • 52:45 – Who David thinks will continue the work of the Doug Peacocks of the world
  • 56:45 – Discussing the political alignment affiliated with climate change work
  • 1:01:30 – David’s book recommendations

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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