Joe Whitworth – On Unrelenting Effort, Blazing Your Own Trail, and Taking Action
Joe Whitworth is the President and CEO of The Freshwater Trust (“TFT”), an innovative and action-oriented conservation organization whose mission is to preserve and restore freshwater ecosystems. With a focus on technology and an all-star staff made up of scientists, attorneys, GIS experts, systems analysts, and more, TFT is pioneering the next generation of conservation by focusing on quantifiable results. Back when I was a Conservation Director here in Colorado, I had the great pleasure of partnering with TFT on a project involving water rights and irrigated farmland, and I was blown away by the organization’s ability to quickly put complex ideas into action for the benefit of land, water, and communities.
Joe was born into a large Midwestern family, and from an early age, his grandfather, who was a farmer, played a foundational role in his understanding of land, water, and conservation. After high school, Joe moved east to attend Dartmouth, where he played football, and then he eventually moved West to attend law school. Along the way, he began to focus his professional efforts on doing work that made the world a better place. After several stints at several different organizations, he took the reins of the organization that would eventually become The Freshwater Trust. Joe has now been at the helm of TFT for more than two decades and has grown the organization’s budget tenfold during his tenure. He’s focused, action-oriented, innovative, and very serious about solving big, complex conservation problems in the West and beyond.
As you’ll hear, Joe and I share many common interests in everything from history to reading to conservation to rivers, and, perhaps more importantly, I connect deeply with many of Joe’s core values around hard work, following your own path, and taking action. So, it’s no surprise that we had such a fun conversation. We start out talking about Joe’s grandfather, Joe’s journey from the Midwest to the Ivy League, and how he adjusted to life at Dartmouth. We talk about his early years working as a non-profit consultant and the series of events that led him to The Freshwater Trust. We discuss the ultimatum that led to TFT’s impressive growth, the type of people who thrive as staff members, and he gives an overview of their BasinScout technology. We discuss the future of environmentalism, technology’s role in solving environmental challenges, favorite books, and much more.
As I said, I’ve been a fan of TFT for many years, so I was so glad to finally have this opportunity to chat with Joe about his personal and professional operating systems. I hope you enjoy.
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Photos courtesy of The Freshwater Trust
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RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:00 – Joe’s grandfather and his lasting influence
- 9:00 – Unexpected blessings from a broken femur
- 13:00 – Adjusting to the Ivy League culture
- 16:15 – Next moves after Dartmouth
- 21:30 – Living like a monk and figuring out next steps
- 25:30 – “The world is designed to make you shut up and get in line.”
- 28:45 – Law school and beginnings at the Freshwater Trust
- 29:00 – Revamping The Freshwater Trust
- 34:00 – The board’s reaction to Joe’s plans for the future
- 39:00 – The importance of making hard decisions
- 43:45 – The magic of The Freshwater Trust team
- 47:45 – An overview of BasinScout
- 51:15 – A foundational BasinScout case study
- 58:30 – Ideas and areas of focus on the horizon
- 1:01:00 – The importance of taking action
- 1:03:30 – Next phase of environmentalism
- 1:06:00 – How TFT’s values meld with Joe’s personal values
- 1:09:00 – Expectations of new team members
- 1:12:00 – The TFT model of handing off new ideas and innovation to partners
- 1:16:00 – Favorite books
Information Referenced:
- Joe Whitworth
- The Freshwater Trust
- Clean Water Act
- Buddy Teevans
- Dartmouth
- Harry Denton’s
- Bobby Clark
- CCS
- Outward Bound
- Lewis and Clark College
- Paul Fortino
- No Child Left Inside
- The TFT team
- BasinScout and other tools
- Rogue River Case Study
- TFT Core Values
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian: John Wesley Powell and the Second Opening of the West by Wallace Stegner
- The Dreamt Land: Chasing Water and Dust Across California by Mark Arax
- Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap…And Others Don’t by Jim Collins
- Yvon’s 5-15 Report
- Growing a Business by Paul Hawken
- The Obstacle is the Way Expanded 10th Anniversary Edition: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan Holiday
- The Accidental Connoisseur: An Irreverent Journey Through the Wine World by Lawrence Osborne
- American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
Jesse Smith is the Director of Land Stewardship at the White Buffalo Land Trust, which is a global hub for regenerative land stewardship, ecological monitoring and research, education, and more. Jesse brings a unique perspective and a diverse set of experiences to his work in regenerative agriculture– his early interest in architecture led him to pursue an education in design, which then led to a career in product design and visual communication. But over time, he became interested in combining his artistic sensibilities with his love of the land, science, and permaculture, and soon thereafter began his journey in the world of family farming, food production, and education. Jesse is now a leader in the world of regenerative ag, and, as you’ll hear, he has a real gift for communicating the art and science of land stewardship.
This conversation was recorded in November of 2024 on stage at the REGENERATE conference– one of the country’s foremost gatherings of regenerative agriculture practitioners and thought leaders. REGENERATE is a collaboration between the Quivira Coalition, Holistic Management International, and the American Grassfed Association, and the conference attracts fascinating people from all over the world to share knowledge, build community, and create a culture of resilience and regeneration.
Despite sitting on stage in front of an auditorium full of people, this conversation felt much more like a fun one-on-one discussion between two friends. We covered everything from Jesse’s winding path into the world of agriculture to some of the more technical details around land monitoring and certifications. We discussed the natural disasters in Jesse’s community that highlighted huge problems in the local food systems, which eventually led to the creation of the White Buffalo Land Trust. We discussed how Jesse prioritizes his work when there are so many urgent challenges to address, and he shares his experiences with big business’s growing interest in regenerative ag. We talk about the Japanese concept of Ikigai, transforming inspiration into action, advice for building a career in regenerative ag, favorite books, and much more. We also allowed ample time for Q&A from the audience, which I know you’ll enjoy.
Jesse mentions tons of useful resources so be sure to visit the episode notes for a full list of topics we discussed and links to everything. A huge thanks to the team at REGENERATE for inviting me to the conference, thank you to Jesse for chatting with me and offering so much wisdom, and thanks to you for listening.
The episode starts out with an introduction from Sarah Wentzel-Fisher, who is the Executive Director of the Quivira Coalition and a past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest. Hope you enjoy!
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Photos courtesy of the Quivira Coalition and REGENERATE, headshot courtesy of Jesse Smith
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:00 – An introduction from Quivira’s Executive Director, Sarah Wentzel-Fisher
- 4:45 – Ed’s introduction
- 8:00 – Jesse’s early years and path into conservation
- 12:15 – Recognizing the community need that led to the creation of the White Buffalo Land Trust
- 16:00 – How Jesse prioritizes his work at the White Buffalo Land Trust
- 21:45 – Thoughts on big business’s interest in regenerative agriculture
- 27:05 – The complexity of regenerative certifications
- 32:45 – Predictions about the future of regenerative certifications
- 35:30 – Advice for people who want to work in regenerative ag
- 41:00 – Translating inspiration into action
- 45:30 – Audience Q&A: How do stories and on-the-ground experiences help to change people’s minds?
- 50:43 – Audience Q&A: Why is the burden on regenerative producers to get certifications to prove that they are doing it correctly?
- 54:15 – Audience Q&A: Thoughts on the new administration bringing regenerative practitioners into the FDA?
- 59:20 – Audience Q&A: How do we create more accessibility around regenerative ag?
- 1:03:10 – Audience Q&A: How does regenerative ag play a role in procurement by institutional buyers?
- 1:05:00 – Audience Q&A: What is the source of people’s disconnect with food and what is one step to bridge that gap?
- 1:08:20 – Audience Q&A: What are some planning strategies to help balance stewardship and profitability
- 1:12:05 – Audience Q&A: What is the lay of the land when it comes to certifications across a broad range of markets?
- 1:16:15 – Jesse’s book recommendations
Information Referenced:
- REGENERATE conference
- Sarah Wentzel-Fisher
- Quivira Coalition
- Holistic Management International
- American Grassfed Association
- Jesse Smith
- White Buffalo Land Trust
- Figure Ate Foods
- 2015 California Wildfires
- Thomas Fire
- Steve Finkle
- Jamala Canyon Ranch
- Regenerative Agriculture
- Biodynamic Ag
- Greenwashing
- Greenhushing
- ExpoWest
- Patagonia
- Dr. Bronners
- Regenerative Organic Certified
- Savory’s EOV Protocol
- Green America
- Audubon Conservation Ranching
- Ikigai
- Will Harris
- Joel Salatin
- Farmprenuers
- Common Ground
- Richard’s Regenerative
- Bionutrient Food Association
- Nutrient Density Alliance
- Dune by Frank Herbert
- The Third Plate by Dan Barber
- Basque Country: A Culinary Journey Through a Food Lover’s Paradise by Marti Buckley
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
- Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
- Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival
- Kate Mannix – A Legacy of Land Stewardship
- Daniela Ibarra-Howell – Healing the Land Holistically
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Nichole Barger – Science as a Catalyst for Human Connection
Nichole Barger is an ecologist, former university professor, and the current deputy chief scientist and lead global scientist for The Nature Conservancy. She earned her master’s degree from the University of California at Berkeley and her PhD from Colorado State University, and her career has included extensive time researching, teaching, and practicing on-the-ground, frontline conservation on issues including land degradation, restoration, and more. Prior to assuming her current position at TNC, she was the research director of the Canyonlands Research Center located at the Dugout Ranch, which you may remember as the subject of a Mountain & Prairie episode back in August of 2024.
Given her distinguished career as a scientist, you might be surprised to learn that Nichole never considered pursuing science as a vocation until the second half of her time in college. She grew up in small-town Indiana, and, although she was extremely curious, a great student, and a voracious reader, she was not particularly enamored with science and didn’t know anyone who worked as a scientist. But during college, a supportive-yet-casual comment from one of her professors planted the seed that science could be an option. Fast forward to today, she has published more than 70 peer-reviewed papers, she co-chairs the Science Policy Interface group of the UN Convention to Combat Desertification, and she leads many of TNC’s cutting-edge science initiatives.
As you’ll hear, Nichole brings a deep level of empathy, curiosity, and open-mindedness to all of her work as a scientist. Whether she’s teaching, researching, or working with conservation stakeholders, she never loses sight of the importance of human connection. We spent the first half of the conversation discussing lessons learned from her nontraditional path into the world of science, including a two-year stint where she left college to travel and explore the United States. We discussed her renewed focus on academics when she returned to school, and the moment that professor planted the seed that eventually grew into her career in science. We discuss teaching versus research, how she evolved as an educator and mentor to college students, and when she decided to apply her talents to TNC’s mission. We discuss TNC’s incorporation of Indigenous wisdom and science into its work, human health as a conservation initiative, and the importance of face-to-face human interactions. She also offers some excellent book recommendations and ideas for remaining optimistic and action-oriented during challenging times.
There’s so much wisdom packed into this episode, so be sure to check out the episode notes for a complete list of topics and links to everything. A huge thanks to Nichole for the great conversation and thank you for listening.
Photos courtesy of TNC: Header © Dave Hebert, headshot © Garrett Herndon
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – Nichole’s upbringing and early years
- 7:45 – Taking a non-traditional path and her parents’ reaction
- 9:30 – Lessons learned from her two-year break
- 11:00 – Books read in high school that gave Nichole confidence to follow her own path
- 12:30 – Returning to school with a renewed focus
- 15:30 – Advice to college students who are trying to find their way in the world
- 18:15 – Her journey to becoming a successful scientist
- 20:30 – Research versus teaching
- 22:45 – Lessons learned from years of teaching
- 26:30 – When and how TNC became a professional focus
- 29:30 – Nichole describes her current job at TNC
- 31:15 – Incorporating Indigenous knowledge into TNC’s science work
- 40:00 – The importance and power of weaving in Indigenous knowledge
- 43:00 – Human health as a conservation initiative
- 47:00 – “Doom and Gloom” is not a motivating strategy
- 50:00 – Online resources for news and science (that won’t make you crazy)
- 52:00 – The importance of being with people
- 53:15 – The most exciting project Nichole is working on
- 55:00 – What can the average person do to take action and make a difference
- 59:00 – Book recommendations
- 1:03:00 – Parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Nichole Barger
- Science programs at TNC
- Wheatfield, Indiana
- Evergreen State College
- UC Berkeley
- Colorado State University
- University of Colorado at Boulder
- Flipped classroom
- BLM
- Colorado Plateau
- Canyonlands Research Center
- United Nations – UNCCD Science-Policy Interface
- Dugout Ranch
- Heidi Redd and Sue Bellagamba podcast
- Celene Hawkins and Izabella Ruffino
- Leave It As It Is by David Gessner
- The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown
- Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
- Mark Easter – Food, Soil, and Our Planet’s Future
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Dr. Emily Howe – The Interconnectedness of Mountains, Forests, Rivers, and Estuaries
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Mark Easter – Food, Soil, and Our Planet’s Future
Mark Easter is a Colorado-based ecologist and author whose new book is titled The Blue Plate: A Food Lover’s Guide to Climate Chaos. If you care about food and you care about Planet Earth, The Blue Plate is a must-read. It explores the production, consumption, and disposal of many of our favorite foods– seafood, salad, bread, chicken, steak, potatoes, ice cream, and more– and offers a thoughtful and nuanced analysis of these foods’ impacts on the environment. This is not a gloom-and-doom climate change book, nor does it have the condescending tone that sometimes accompanies many climate-related readings. While Mark is crystal clear about the massive threats facing our planet, this is a book built on the ideals of optimism, ingenuity, and taking action. I loved it.
Mark lives and works in Fort Collins and has conducted research in academia and private industry since 1988. He has enjoyed a very successful and impactful career at Colorado State University, and he has authored and co-authored more than 50 scientific papers and reports related to carbon cycling and the carbon footprint of agriculture, forestry, and other land uses. But Mark also has a real gift for storytelling and for breaking down enormously complex topics into understandable and enjoyable writing. His writing is personal, educational, and fun to read, and I credit Mark and The Blue Plate with helping me to finally fully understand issues around greenhouse gas emissions and carbon sequestration.
Mark and I met up a few weeks ago at CSU and had a fun and nuanced conversation about food, agriculture, and the climate. We started by discussing why he refers to himself as a “greenhouse gas accountant,” and he offers an excellent explanation of soil’s all-important role in balancing the release and capture of carbon on Planet Earth. We talk about how grasslands, jungles, and mangroves sequester carbon, and how and why the destruction of any of these ecosystems negatively affects the planet. We discuss Mark’s ten-year process of writing this book and how Patagonia Books helped him bring his vision to life. We discuss how methane is produced by everything from reservoirs to ruminants, and why that particular greenhouse gas is more harmful than the others. We discuss regenerative agriculture, meat production, composting, and personal diet choices, and Mark offers a long list of excellent book recommendations.
We barely scratched the surface of all of the fascinating topics in The Blue Plate, so if you enjoy this conversation, I’d encourage you to pick up a copy of the book and dig in. I know you’ll enjoy it and learn a lot.
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Photos courtesy of Patagonia, Header © Remy Anthes,
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:00 – Intro and how Mark describes his work
- 7:15 – Parallels between carbon accounting and business accounting
- 13:45 – An overview of soil and carbon
- 21:30 – Carbon in grasslands vs jungles vs mangroves
- 25:00 – How and why Mark decided to write this book
- 33:00 – The ten-year process of writing the book
- 37:00 – Greenhouse gases explained
- 40:00 – Methane feedback loop explained
- 43:30 – A fascinating story about methane in Lake Powell
- 46:15 – Reservoirs and evaporation
- 47:00 – The most difficult chapter to write: Ruminants and meat
- 55:30 – The increasing global demand for meat
- 58:00 – Taking action and personal responsibility
- 1:01:30 – Personal responsibility versus regulation
- 1:04:00 – A helpful way to understand carbon quantities
- 1:06:00 – Carbon consequences of transforming forests to grasslands
- 1:09:00 – All about composting
- 1:13:00 – Business opportunities in regenerative agriculture
- 1:16:30 – Favorite books
- 1:22:15 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- Mark Easter
- The Blue Plate: A Food Lover’s Guide to Climate Chaos
- Keith Paustian
- Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
- Marlen Eve
- Stephen Ogle
- Bill Parton
- Excited Skin of the Planet
- Video: Soil Organic Matter: Humanity’s True Capital by Francesca Cotrufo, PhD
- Melannie Hartman
- SueEllen Campbell
- The Soil Will Save Us: How Scientists, Farmers, and Foodies Are Healing the Soil to Save the Planet by Kristin Ohlson
- Kiss the Ground
- John Calderazzo
- Rachel Carson
- Doug Brinkley interview
- Aldo Leopold
- EO Wilson
- Barbara Kingsolver
- Greenhouse gases
- Methane feedback loop
- Into the Clear Blue Sky: The Path to Restoring Our Atmosphere by Rob Jackson
- Cod: A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World by Mark Kurlansky
- Prairyerth: A Deep Map by William Least Heat-Moon
- Animal, Vegetable, Miracle: A Year of Food Life by Barbara Kingsolver
- A Sand County Almanac: And Sketches Here and There by Aldo Leopold
- Coming Home to Eat: The Pleasures and Politics of Local Foods by Gary Paul Nabhan
- Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
- Laura Pritchett
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Dr. Emily Howe – The Interconnectedness of Mountains, Forests, Rivers, and Estuaries
- Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Kelsey Molloy & Angel DeVries – Fortifying Grasslands and Communities on the Northern Great Plains
Kelsey Molloy is the Northern Great Plains Director at The Nature Conservancy and Angel DeVries is the Executive Director of the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance (RSA), and they both live and work on the Northern Great Plains in Malta, Montana. While they work for different organizations, Kelsey and Angel collaborate on a long list of critical projects, most of which are focused on grassland conservation, ranching, and community partnerships.
One of their most notable collaborations involves the Matador Ranch, a 60,000-acre TNC-owned property near Dodson, Montana. The Matador Ranch is home to an outside-the-box conservation initiative known as a grassbank, which is a partnership opportunity that offers ranchers grazing access to rich grasses in exchange for adopting sustainable practices on their own property.
This grassbank was introduced during the historic drought of the early 2000s, and it offered much needed grazing opportunities for ranching families whose homeplaces had been hit hard by the dry conditions. Since then, for the past 20+ years, the grassbank has continued to provide win-win solutions for ranchers and conservation-focused non-profit organizations, as well as helping to bolster trust, goodwill, and community cohesiveness.
As you’ll hear in this conversation, the grassbank has been such a success, the TNC is currently searching for another ranch to acquire and eventually transform into a community led and owned grassbank. This “grassbank 2.0” will not only provide a grazing safety net during times of drought, but will also further the work of providing opportunities for new or young ranchers who are just entering the business but do not yet have the capital to purchase their own land.
We connected via the magic of the internet, and had a wide-ranging conversation about their productive collaboration, grassbanks, challenges and opportunities in the Northern Great Plains, and more. We discussed the work of the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance, the history of the Matador Ranch, and the ins and outs of the Matador Ranch grassbank. We discussed how skyrocketing land values are making it nearly impossible for new ranchers to enter the business, and also how succession planning is becoming an important, but often underappreciated, issue for ranching families. We also talked a lot about the need for optimism and curiosity, the importance of building community, and how TNC and RSA are working to bridge cultural and geographic divides. We also learn about RSA’s book club, which will likely be of great interest to many of you.
I learned so much from this conversation and appreciate Kelsey and Angel taking time out of their busy schedules to chat with me. Hope you enjoy!
Header photo © Ami Vitale/TNC, headshots courtesy of Kelsey and Angel
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – Kelsey and Angel introduce themselves
- 8:10 – Background on the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance (RSA)
- 10:00 – A few of the biggest challenges facing Great Plains ranchers
- 15:30 – The history of the Matador Ranch and the grassbank
- 22:00 – Lessons learned from the grassbank
- 24:15 – A local’s perspective on the grassbank
- 25:30 – Wildlife-friendly fencing explained
- 26:30 – Other examples of grassbanks
- 30:15 – Emerging plans for a new grassbank
- 33:45 – Steps involved in finding a new property
- 36:00 – Success stories from the Matador Ranch
- 41:00 – Easements as a tool for grasslands restoration
- 43:45 – Importance of positivity and optimism
- 48:45 – Importance of optimism
- 52:00 – Important books
- 56:15 – RSA book club
- 59:45 – Words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Kelsey Molloy
- Angel DeVries
- TNC Montana
- Ranchers Stewardship Alliance
- Matador Ranch
- Malta, MT
- AUM
- Matt Morehead
- Amber Smith
- Winnett ACES
- Bowdoin National Wildlife Refuge
- Plowprint report from World Wildlife Fund
- Pioneer Cattleman in Montana: The Story of the Circle C Ranch by Walt Coburn
- Dirt: The Erosion of Civilizations by David R. Montgomery
- Nature’s Best Hope: A New Approach to Conservation That Starts in Your Yard by Douglas W. Tallamy
- The Unabomber Manifesto: Industrial Society and Its Future
- Brené Brown
- Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear
- Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action by Simon Sinek
- Otters Dance: A Rancher’s Journey to Enlightenment and Stewardship by Bob Budd
- RSA Book Club and other events
- Elaine Froese
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kate Mannix – A Legacy of Land Stewardship
- Amber Smith – Creating Connection & Community
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
- Heidi Redd & Sue Bellagamba – Tales from the Dugout Ranch
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
The Partnership of Rangeland Trusts – 20 Years of Cooperation, Collaboration, and Conservation
If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then you’re already familiar with the Partnership of Rangeland Trusts, also known as PORT. But for any new listeners, PORT is an alliance of agriculture-focused conservation organizations dedicated to preserving working farms and ranches and conserving productive agricultural lands. PORT is currently celebrating its 20th anniversary, and in those two decades (and as of this recording), PORT organizations have helped more than 2,000 families conserve almost 3.2 million acres of productive working lands across the West.
In this episode, I chat with three executive directors of PORT-affiliated organizations, two of which have been on the podcast before. You’ll recognize Chad Ellis of the Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT), and Erik Glenn of the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust. And new to the podcast is Michael Delbar, who leads the California Rangeland Trust. I’ve known all three of these guys for many years now, and I have long admired the ways that they lead their respective organizations. But perhaps even more impressive to me is how they have worked as a team with all nine PORT organizations to increase the scale, influence, and effectiveness of large-scale, working lands conservation.
I don’t think I’ve ever recorded an episode this early in the morning– we squeezed it in between an early morning breakfast and PORT’s board meeting. Just the day before, we had all been at TALT’s Working Lands Innovation Summit on the Birdwell-Clark Ranch in Henrietta, Texas, which was a huge success. So this was a great time to reflect on the importance of working lands, and we covered a lot: The Working Lands Innovation Summit and the importance of spending time out on the land; the history and purpose of PORT, the growth of additive conservation projects; private lands conservation as an economic driver; hard work; innovation; the importance of advocating for conservation in Washington DC; future plans for PORT, and much more. As you’ll hear, I start out chatting with Chad and Erik, and then Michael steps in for Erik about halfway through and shares his valuable perspective.
A huge thanks to TALT for inviting me to Texas and another huge thanks to all the PORT organizations and landowner partners who have had such a positive and significant impact on the landscapes of the West.
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Header photo courtesy of the California Rangeland Trust
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – The event that brought us all to Texas
- 7:00 – Importance of being on the land for the conference
- 8:45 – Introduction to the Partnership of Rangelands Trust (PORT)
- 12:30 – How and why PORT was created
- 15:30 – Additive conservation and the future
- 18:45 – Examples of additive conservation projects
- 25:30 – Private lands conservation as an economic driver
- 29:15 – Intro to Michael Delbar
- 31:00 – How the perception of conservation easements has changed in California
- 32:00 – Once again, the importance of relationships
- 34:15 – Hard work and innovation
- 39:45 – Advocating in DC
- 42:00 – How PORT’s scale translates into results
- 43:30 – Future plans for PORT
- 47:00 – Funding needs and parting words
Information Referenced:
- Partnership of Rangeland Trusts (PORT)
- All PORT members
- Texas Agricultural Land Trust (TALT)
- Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust
- California Rangeland Trust
- Chad Ellis
- Erik Glenn
- Michael Delbar
- Aldo Leopold
- “Conservation will ultimately boil down to rewarding the private landowner who conserves the public interest.” – Aldo Leopold
- Conservation easements
- CSU Economic Study on Private Lands Conservation
- Dr. Roel Lopez
- NRCS
- California Rangeland Trust Presents: From the Ground Up: Healing Our Planet, Healing Ourselves
- California Rangeland Trust Podcast: Tuned Into The Land
- Land Trust Alliance
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Heidi Redd & Sue Bellagamba – Tales from the Dugout Ranch
- Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
- Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
- Rebuilding a Resilient, Regional Meat Supply Chain – LIVE at the Old Salt Festival
- Landscape-Scale Management in a Private Land State
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
- Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Kevin Grange – The Secret Lives of Grizzlies
Kevin Grange is a Wyoming-based author, paramedic, and firefighter. His most recent book is titled Grizzly Confidential: An Astounding Journey Into the Secret Life of North America’s Most Fearsome Predator, which is a must-read for anyone interested in the evolving relationship between humans and bears. The book follows Kevin’s journey throughout the American West and Alaska as he seeks to better understand grizzly bears, debunk many deeply engrained myths, explore case studies of successful coexistence, and more. The book is part travelogue, part adventure story, and part science– making for a fun and educational read that I highly recommend.
Kevin was born and raised in New Hampshire, where he grew up obsessed with the outdoors and, like many of us, obsessed with kids’ outdoor books such as Old Yeller, Sounder, and Where the Red Fern Grows. He attended paramedic school in California and began his career in downtown LA before landing a job as a National Park paramedic in Yellowstone. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Kevin has managed to successfully merge his love of medicine and adventure with his talent for writing, and with a lot of hard work, he’s enjoyed two successful, simultaneous careers– one in medicine and the other in writing.
Kevin and I connected just a few weeks after the publication of Grizzly Confidential and had a fascinating conversation about his career, his writing process, and his journey to better understand the legendary grizzly bear. We discussed his career path that led him to the West and his first experiences working in Yellowstone. We talk about balancing his paramedic work with his writing work, and how having a full-time job allows him to be more selective with his writing projects. We obviously talk a lot about grizzly bears– grizzly research, poaching, backcountry bear safety, his travels to Alaska, success stories of coexistence, false grizzly myths, overcoming his fear of grizzlies, and much more. Kevin is also a voracious reader, so he offers up plenty of excellent book recommendations.
A huge thanks to Kevin for writing such a fun and educational book, and a huge thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!
—
Photos courtesy of Kevin Grange
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – Intro and Kevin’s upbringing
- 5:45 – Favorite books as a kid
- 8:15 – First memories of grizzlies
- 9:15 – First encounter with a grizzly
- 11:30 – Becoming a National Park paramedic
- 13:45 – Types of emergencies in National Parks
- 15:00 – Idiotic tourist mistakes
- 16:45 – Balancing paramedic work with writing
- 19:30 – Why Grizzlies?
- 22:15 – How this book’s angle is different from other Grizzly books
- 26:20 – What’s the difference between a “Grizzly bear” and a “Brown bear”?
- 27:45 – Washington State University’s Bear Center
- 32:45 – Grizzly poaching
- 37:15 – Learning bear defense methods, including bear spray
- 41:15 – Basic backcountry safety in bear country
- 44:15 – Examples of good and bad coexistence strategies
- 48:15 – Debunking certain grizzly myths
- 52:45 – Continued learning about grizzlies
- 55:45 – How writing this book compares to the others
- 57:15 0 Favorite writers and books
- 59:30 – How has Kevin changed because of this project?
- 1:05:30 – Learning to switch gears after an intense paramedic experience
- 1:07:30 – Parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Kevin Grange
- Grizzly Confidential by Kevin Grange
- All of Kevin’s Books
- Old Yeller by Fred Gipson
- Sounder by William Armstrong
- Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls
- Thomas Mangelsen
- Morning Glory hotspring
- Grizzly 399
- Washington State University Bear Center
- Brooks Falls
- Nick Mott episode
- Todd Orr
- Surviving the Griz course
- McNeil Bear Sanctuary
- Fat Bear Week
- National Parks Magazine
- Eager by Ben Goldfarb
- The Devils Teeth by Susan Casey
- Peter Matthiessen
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
- Kevin Fedarko
- Pete McBride
- Kate Siber
- Stephanie Pearson
- On Writing by Stephen King
- The Soul of an Octopus by Sy Montgomery
- What a Fish Knows by Jonathan Balcombe
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Nick Mott – A Masterclass in Nuanced Storytelling
- 50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Nick Mott – A Masterclass in Nuanced Storytelling
(Photo: Zach Altman)
Nick Mott is an award-winning multimedia journalist who lives in Livingston, Montana. His latest project is a wonderful new podcast called The Wide Open, which he produced in collaboration with Montana Public Radio and the Montana Media Lab. The podcast offers a fresh look into our ever-changing relationship with the Endangered Species Act (ESA), and it digs into the history, nuance, and modern-day controversies surrounding what has been called “the most powerful environmental legislation in the world.” Nick explores this divisive topic with deep curiosity and journalistic integrity, and I found the podcast to be amazingly educational and entertaining– which is a rare combo when discussing such a complex piece of legislation.
If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then many of the topics Nick explores in The Wide Open will be of great interest– grizzly bears, wolves, the environmental history of the West, and more. You’ll also hear a few familiar voices, including past podcast guest and living legend Doug Peacock. But what I most appreciated about The Wide Open is how Nick was able to humanize the stories surrounding such a divisive part of Western culture– he features people who love the ESA and people who hate it, but all of them are given the opportunity to share their stories and unique outlooks. In this current cultural moment of hot takes, outrage, and misinformation, The Wide Open is a much-needed return to nuance, curiosity, and civility.
As you’d expect from an award-winning podcaster, Nick knows how to tell a great story, so I know you’ll enjoy this episode. We start out discussing the history of the ESA and Nick’s fresh approach to exploring such a well-known environmental story. We discuss how the ESA is used as a tool to achieve goals other than species protection, how Nick balances the need to make his podcasts both informative and fun to listen to, how he accounts for his own personal biases when telling stories, and how he goes about choosing people to interview. About halfway through the episode, Nick recounts a horrifying recent run-in he had with a grizzly bear, and he discusses how that close call affected his thinking on some of these complex wildlife issues. We also discuss his favorite books, plans for future seasons of The Wide Open, how he deals with negative feedback, wolf reintroduction in Colorado, his professional heroes, and much more.
Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything, including Nick’s other podcasts and his book This is Wildfire, which he co-authored with Justin Angle.
A big thanks to Nick for taking the time, thank you for listening, and please subscribe to The Wide Open– I know you’ll really enjoy it!
—
Photos by Zach Altman
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:50 – What attracts Nick to specific stories or topics?
- 6:30 – Nick describes his new approach to examining the ESA.
- 8:30 – A brief history of the ESA
- 11:35 – Using the ESA as a tool to save species OR achieve other goals
- 16:00 – How Nick chooses people to interview and include on the podcast
- 19:15 – Balancing telling stories that are both entertaining and substantive
- 22:50 – Accounting for bias in journalism
- 24:45 – Why Nick includes his own story in the podcast narrative
- 27:30 – Introvert or extrovert?
- 28:50 – Did Nick change his mind on anything related to the ESA?
- 31:30 – How the internet has inflamed the divisiveness of the ESA
- 33:00 – Nick’s recent terrifying encounter with a grizzly
- 39:00 – The psychological aftermath of the grizzly scare
- 44:45 – Providing a framework for thinking about wolf reintroduction in Colorado
- 49:00 – People Nick admires
- 53:00 – What type of journalism does Nick like the best?
- 55:00 – Future seasons of The Wide Open?
- 56:45 – People Nick admires
- 1:00:00 – Favorite books
- 1:02:00 – Dealing with negative feedback
- 1:04:00 – Parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Nick Mott
- The Wide Open
- Fireline podcast
- This is Wildfire by Nick Mott and Justin Angle
- Endangered Species Act
- Doug Brinkley
- Rachel Carson
- Tennessee Valley Authority
- Snail darter
- NOLS
- The Final Forest by William Dietrich
- Doug Peacock
- Daniel Anderson
- Amy Martin
- Threshold
- This American Life
- RadioLab
- Jon Ronson books
- Wild Ones by Jon Mooallem
- The Sixth Extinction by Elizabeth Kolbert
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- 50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- “Good Fire, Bad Fire” – A Film and Discussion about Forest Health
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Mauricia Baca – An Empathetic Approach to Nevada’s Conservation Challenges
Mauricia Baca is the State Director of the Nevada Chapter of The Nature Conservancy. In this role, she leads TNC’s efforts in Nevada across a wide range of conservation issues that are familiar to Mountain & Prairie listeners– the Colorado River, the Sagebrush Sea, and renewable energy. But Nevada is also home to some very unique conservation challenges related to biodiversity, mining for rare earth metals, groundwater for agriculture, and more. So I was excited to have this opportunity to learn from Mauricia about some of the specific challenges facing Nevada, TNC’s solutions to these challenges, and how the lessons learned can be applied in other regions of the West.
Mauricia was born in Mexico, grew up in New York City, and credits much of her love of nature and the environment to her childhood experiences exploring Central Park. After college, she served in the Peace Corps, worked as a community organizer in New York, and eventually attended law school. After four years of working as a prosecutor for the United States Department of Justice’s Environment and Natural Resources Division, she moved to Nevada and began her first position with The Nature Conservancy, leading conservation work on the Truckee River. She has served as the State Director since November 2020, and, as you’ll hear, all of her efforts are infused with a deep level of compassion, empathy, and gratitude.
Mauricia has such a fascinating personal and professional trajectory, and there are many lessons to be learned from both her approach to her life and career, and the specifics of TNC’s critical work in Nevada. We talked about her youth in Mexico and New York City, and how she has been committed to environmental work since she was a very young girl. We discuss her stint in the Peace Corps and how those experiences laid the groundwork for her current work with TNC. She shares some insights from switching from the litigation world to the conservation world, and she offers some wisdom for folks looking to make a similar transition. We discuss lithium mining, groundwater conservation, and climate change, and how TNC is making strides to protect biodiversity while balancing society’s growing need for rare earth metals, water, and development. She also shares some wisdom gleaned from her recent battle with breast cancer, and discusses how her approach to work has changed since that life-altering health scare.
A big thanks to Mauricia for being so open and thoughtful, and for sharing so many wonderful insights from her inspiring career. Be sure to check out the episode notes below for links to everything we discussed and to watch Mauricia’s recent TEDx talk, which serves as a great companion to this interview. Enjoy!
Header photo © Chip Carroon/TNC, headshot © The Nature Conservancy
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – Mauricia’s upbringing and early years in Mexico and New York City
- 7:00 – When she knew she wanted to devote her career to environmental work
- 9:15 – Legal training as thought training
- 11:45 – How the Peace Corps and other experiences helped her learn to build trust and relationships
- 16:45 – When TNC entered Mauricia’s life as a next career step
- 19:45 – More details on how she was able to land her first job with TNC
- 24:00 – Career evolution within TNC
- 26:00 – Starting as TNC State Director at the beginning of the pandemic
- 28:45 – Tackling climate-related challenges in Nevada and beyond
- 34:00 – The Atwood Preserve and the quiet beauty of the Mojave Desert
- 39:00 – TNC’s work to preserve biodiversity in the face of lithium mining
- 43:45 – The importance of groundwater for Nevada’s ag sector
- 49:00 – Working in partnership with Tribal communities
- 54:00 – Thinking locally and acting globally
- 56:00 – Lessons learned from Mauricia’s recent cancer scare
- 1:03:30 – Favorite books
- 1:06:00 – Parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Mauricia Baca
- The Nature Conservancy in Nevada
- TNC Nevada’s 40th Anniversary
- Mauricia’s TEDx talk
- The Sagebrush Sea
- The Colorado River
- Secrets of the Mojave
- TNC’s work on groundwater
- TNC’s lithium report
- Power of Place-West
- Mining the Sun
- Peace Corps
- Department of Justice’s Environment and Natural Resources Division
- Truckee River
- Get Outdoors Nevada
- Atwood Preserve
- Amargosa River
- Ash Meadows
- How the nation’s driest state is using cash to free up water The Washington Post
- Celene and Izabella episode
- Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
- Dumping in Dixie by Robert Bullard
- Gabriel García Márquez
- Isabel Allende
- The House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende
- Cloud Cuckoo Land by Anthony Doerr
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Dan Stellar – Bolstering Biodiversity in Arizona and Beyond
- Kate Mannix – A Legacy of Land Stewardship
- Matt Pierson – Finding New Solutions for Food Insecurity
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Joe Schobert – From NFL Pro Bowler to Western Conservation Advocate
Joe Schobert is a retired NFL Pro Bowler who is devoting the second act of his professional career to advocating for the West’s wild places.
Joe was born and raised in Wisconsin, and despite having an exemplary high school football career, he was not offered a scholarship to play college football. So he took matters into his own hands and walked on at the University of Wisconsin– four years later, he was awarded the Jack Lambert Trophy as the nation’s best linebacker. He was then drafted by the Cleveland Browns, and a few years later, he earned a spot on the NFL’s Pro Bowl team. After a successful career with teams including the Browns, Jaguars, and Steelers, Joe recently retired and is leaning into the next phase of his career.
Since childhood, Joe has loved the outdoors and wide-open spaces. During his time with the Browns, he began leveraging his influence and resources to raise awareness and funds for conservation-focused organizations. Through an NFL fundraising initiative called “My Cause, My Cleats,” he spotlighted several Colorado-based conservation organizations on the NFL’s international stage. Back in 2021, his non-profit of choice was my old employer, Palmer Land Conservancy, and before that, he supported the Colorado Fourteeners Initiative. His most recent fundraiser is called the NFLPA Fishing for Conservation, which was created to raise funds for the amazing team at Western Rivers Conservancy.
As you’ll hear in this conversation, Joe loves the West, loves hiking, fishing, and outdoor adventure, and loves exploring wild places with his wife Megan and their two young sons. He also understands and appreciates the wide range of threats facing everything from family farms and ranches to public lands to river ecosystems, and he is committed to doing his part to protect these invaluable resources. So in this conversation, we talk about it all– from Joe’s inspiring journey at the highest levels of professional athletics all the way up to this summer’s first annual Fishing for Conservation, which took place at Lake Tahoe. At his core, Joe is a focused, humble, and action-oriented guy, and it was such a treat to learn the origins of his talents and how he has applied those talents to both football and conservation.
A huge thanks to Joe for joining me for a chat, and for his years-long commitment to western conservation. Enjoy!
—
Photos courtesy of Joe Schobert
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:20 – Joe’s upbringing
- 6:15 – When it became clear that Joe was a talented athlete
- 9:30 – Discussing how, despite his clear talent, Joe did not receive an athletic scholarship to college, and how he pushed past that
- 18:15 – When Joe arrived at the University of Wisconsin
- 20:15 – What Joe is most proud of doing at Wisconsin
- 22:15 – Whether or not there was room for other activities (besides school and football) during Joe’s college experience
- 25:00 – When the NFL became a possibility for Joe
- 26:30 – How Joe chose an agent
- 29:45 – Discussing the Combine
- 32:30 – Discussing the NFL Draft
- 35:15 – Discussing training camp with the Browns
- 37:30 – Joe describes the training camp balance between preparing to work as a team but also working against teammates for a spot on the roster
- 39:00 – The importance of “intangibles” and “soft skills” in the NFL
- 40:45 – When conservation entered Joe’s brain, and how he ended up in Colorado
- 50:00 – Joe’s nonprofit, and the conservation fundraiser he held in Lake Tahoe
- 55:15 – Joe’s recent river trip in Montana
- 58:00 – Joe’s retirement and family life
- 1:00:30 – Joe’s book recommendations
- 1:03:15 – Discussing the need for action
- 1:06:00 – Joe’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Joe Schobert
- Jim Leonhard
- J.J. Watt
- Athletes First LLC
- NFL Combine
- Von Miller
- Miles Garrett
- Muskie
- Colorado Fourteeners Initiative
- Palmer Land Conservancy
- My Cause, My Cleats
- Western Rivers Conservancy
- Bob Marshall Wilderness
- Schotime Dance Center
- Deep Creek by Pam Houston
- The Riyria Revelations by Michael Sullivan
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Dylan Tomine – Protecting What He Loves
- Luke Smithwick – A Life in High Places
- Brendan Leonard, Part 2 – On Running, Creating, and Other Irrational Passions
- Mike Foote – Perfection is in the Process
- Chris Burkard – The Art of Suffering
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Heidi Redd & Sue Bellagamba – Tales from the Dugout Ranch
Heidi Redd is a renowned rancher, conservationist, author, and member of the National Cowgirl Museum’s Hall of Fame. Sue Bellagamba serves as Canyonlands Regional Director at the Nature Conservancy, and for more than thirty years, she has worked to protect the lands and waters of southeastern Utah.
Heidi and TNC have been partners since 1997 when Heidi sold her family’s Utah ranch– The Dugout Ranch– to the Nature Conservancy in a historic conservation deal that protected the property from impending development. The Dugout Ranch is located at the gateway to Canyonlands National Park and sits within the boundaries of what is now Bears Ears National Monument– a fragile and arid landscape that has faced various development and environmental threats for many decades.
Heidi and Sue have worked together in many capacities over the years, with one of their most notable achievements being the creation of The Canyonlands Research Center (“CRC”), which is headquartered at the Dugout Ranch. The CRC was founded in 2010, and its mission is to “promote a sustainable future on the Colorado Plateau for people and nature through research, inspiration, and demonstration of evidence-based solutions to solve some of our most pressing ecological, social, and economic issues.”
Heidi is also the author of the excellent new book titled A Cowgirl’s Conservation Journey: Stories from the Dugout Ranch. The book details her fascinating and adventurous life, with tales ranging from her youth (which included lots of rock climbing and skydiving), to her early years on the Dugout Ranch, all the way up to some recent behind-the-scenes stories from the designation of Bears Ears as a National Monument. If you’re a fan of history, adventure, ranching, conservation, and purpose-driven people, I know you’ll enjoy the book.
We covered a lot in the episode, including Heidi’s upbringing, her first visit to the Dugout Ranch, and when she knew that she would devote her life to stewarding the Dugout’s spectacular landscapes. Sue provides some excellent context around conservation in the American Southwest, and why drylands are such a critical ecosystem and focus of TNC’s efforts. We discuss how TNC initially built trust with Heidi back in the 1990s, the creation of The Canyonlands Research Center, new insights Heidi gleaned from writing her book, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode notes for links to everything we discuss, including Heidi’s book.
A huge thanks to Heidi and Sue for taking the time to chat with me and share their wisdom from so many decades of conversation work in such a special part of the country. Enjoy!
Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, header photo and Heidi’s headshot © Ted Wood
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – Heidi’s upbringing
- 7:15 – Heidi describes the Dugout Ranch
- 13:30 – When Heidi knew she wanted to dedicate her life to the Dugout Ranch and surrounding area
- 16:00 – When Heidi took the reins of the Dugout
- 20:45 – When Heidi became interested in working with TNC
- 24:30 – Why Heidi trusted TNC
- 26:45 – Sue explains why TNC wanted to get involved with the Dugout Ranch and what their plan was once they purchased it
- 30:15 – Sue explains the mission and purpose of the Canyonlands Research Center
- 32:15 – When climate change got on Heidi’s radar
- 37:45 – How Heidi discusses climate change, given our political climate
- 41:30 – Sue explains why drylands are so important
- 44:00 – Heidi and Sue explain the impact of the political battle surrounding Bears Ears on their work
- 50:30 – Heidi discusses whether or not writing her book helped her come to new conclusions
- 54:00 – Heidi’s hopes for her family
- 55:30 – Heidi and Sue’s book recommendations
- 59:45 – Parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- A Cowgirl’s Conservation Journey by Heidi Redd
- The Dugout Ranch
- Heidi’s Cowgirl Hall of Fame induction video
- Canyonlands Research Center
- Cisco (fish)
- Canyonlands Field Institute
- Abajo Mountains UT
- Senator Rob Bishop
- Secretary of the Interior Sally Jewell
- Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey
- Book of the Hopi by Frank Waters
- Blow Sand in His Soul: Bates Wilson, the Heart of Canyonlands by Jen Jackson Quintano
- Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
Curt Meine is a Senior Fellow at The Aldo Leopold Foundation and one of the world’s foremost experts on the life, work, and legacy of conservation icon Aldo Leopold. Curt is the author of the biography Aldo Leopold: His Life and Work, and he also works as a conservation biologist, a professor, a senior fellow with the Center for Humans and Nature, and much more.
Since the very beginning of Mountain & Prairie, Aldo Leopold has been one of the most referenced, admired, and influential conservation thinkers whose name and ideas have been referenced over and over on the podcast. Whether I’m talking to people in agriculture or entertainment, writing or athletics, history or politics, there always seems to be a thread of thinking that connects many Mountain and Prairie guests to the Land Ethic of Aldo Leopold.
So, I was long overdue in devoting an episode exclusively to Leopold, and I was thrilled to have the opportunity to chat with Curt, one of our most admired and trusted Leopold scholars. Whether you are brand new to the work of Leopold or you’ve read A Sand County Almanac a hundred times, I think you’ll learn a lot from this episode. Curt has a real gift for discussing the details of Leopold’s life in an amazingly engaging way, while also helping us to understand Leopold’s legacy in the context of the broad history of North American conservation.
We start the conversation with an overview of Leopold’s early years and upbringing, and his eventual enrollment in the Yale School of Forestry. We discuss Leopold’s formative years in the American Southwest, how his outside-the-box ideas about wildlife sometimes clashed with the status quo, and his eventual move back to Wisconsin. We talk a lot about Leopold’s personality and how it compares to other conservation icons, how his work was received both in his lifetime and after his death, his surprising challenges finding a publisher for A Sand County Almanac, and that book’s long-lasting influence. We also discuss criticisms of Leopold’s work, some of his ideas that may not hold up as well today as they did in their time, and Leopold’s abundant curiosity and willingness to change his mind. We also discuss books, the very important work of the Aldo Leopold Foundation, and much more.
Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of topics and links to everything. And also, I want to thank my friend, the great conservationist and all-around amazing human Doug Duren for so generously introducing me to the team at The Aldo Leopold Foundation and being such a steadfast champion of Leoplod’s legacy.
Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy.
—
Photos courtesy of Wikipedia and The Aldo Leopold Foundation
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:45 – Aldo Leopold’s upbringing
- 11:15 – Leopold’s work in the Southwest
- 16:30 – How Leopold’s persona may or may not have helped (or harmed) him in his efforts to implement conservation
- 20:!5 – What brought Leopold back to his home state of Wisconsin
- 22:45 – How Leopold’s novel ideas for wildlife management were received by the Forest Service establishment
- 26:45 – How Leopold’s ideas influenced forestry and conservation thinking outside of the Forest Service, and whether or not this influenced FDR’s conservation work
- 32:45 – Whether or not Leopold ever lost his cool in his fight to change land stewardship thinking in the US
- 37:00 – Discussing A Sand County Almanac, and how long it took to be viewed as the influential work it is considered by many to be today
- 43:15 – Leopold’s passion for, and balance between, science and art
- 45:45 – Which of Leopold’s stances or ideas do not hold up today
- 50:45 – Leopold’s willingness to accept change and criticism, and its importance today
- 53:15 – An overview of the Aldo Leopold Foundation
- 57:45 – Curt’s book recommendations
- 1:01:30 – Curt’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Curt Meine
- Aldo Leopold – His Life & Work by Curt Meine
- Aldo Leopold Foundation
- Nick Offerman
- Sauk Tribe
- Meskwaki Tribe
- Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest
- Douglas Brinkley
- A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold
- Silent Spring by Rachel Carson
- The Meadow by James Galvin
- Wendell Berry
- Gary Snyder
- Terry Tempest Williams
- Robin Wall Kimmerer
- The Center for Humans and Nature
- Beloved Beasts by Michelle Nijhuis
- Gary Paul Nabhan
- Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
- Gathering Moss by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Hampton Sides – Live at the Aspen Institute
- David Gessner, Part 3 – A Confluence of Conservation Ideals
- Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Janie & Louise Roberson – Chatting It Up With Their Old Man
This is a completely different kind of episode, featuring a fun and at times crazy conversation with my two daughters, Janie and Louise.
Back in June, we were eating dinner when, out of the blue, both girls expressed an enthusiastic interest in being guests on the podcast. So the next day, we set up the podcast gear at our dining room table, sat down, and had what I thought was a funny conversation.
Both girls were surprisingly relaxed and acting pretty naturally despite having microphones jammed up in their faces, and I thought that the conversation highlighted their personalities, curiosities, and senses of humor. But I fully understand and admit that I am about as biased as any human can be when it comes to these two girls, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.
As you’ll hear, we jammed a lot of crazy topics into thirty minutes, including: camping, what makes for an ideal campground, their understanding of conservation, violin, rock climbing, jiu-jitsu, North Carolina versus the American West, the Biltmore House, silly 19th-century rules about girls wearing bathing suits, Costa Rica, Alcatraz, drunk people, earthquakes and tsunamis, our favorite secret spot in Colorado, favorite books, commentary on my choice of shirts and underwear, and more topics you probably never thought you’d hear on Mountain & Prairie. I also asked them each to prepare a question to ask me, and one of them involved the unexpected topic of me getting into a fight with a wild animal– a subject I’d never really considered in detail.
Anyway, I appreciate you humoring me with this episode. It was fun for the girls, fun for me, and my wife Kim and I will be happy to have this audio time capsule years from now when they are out of the house, living their own lives, and having their own adventures.
Next week, we’ll be back to the normal episodes featuring grown-ups. I’ve got a great line-up of conversations coming your way, including a deep dive into Aldo Leopold’s life and work, a conversation with a Canyonlands conservation/cowgirl/ranching living legend, and live interviews from the Old Salt Festival.
Thanks for listening, and hope you get a few chuckles from this conversation with Janie and Louise.
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
Looking for episodes that feature adults? Then check these out:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
- Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
- Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Nancy Smith & Austin Rempel – A Surprisingly Simple, Effective, and Scalable Approach to Riparian Restoration
Nancy Smith is the Conservation Director for The Nature Conservancy’s Colorado River Program, and Austin Rempel is the Riparian Restoration Program Manager at The Nature Conservancy. Both Nancy and Austin are working on the front lines of some of the West’s most innovative water and habitat conservation projects– projects that benefit everything from groundwater supplies to wildlife habitat, climate resiliency to ecosystem health.
If you’ve listened to many of these TNC-focused episodes, then you’ll know that TNC works extensively throughout the Colorado River Basin on a wide range of conservation issues that affect people, wildlife, and landscapes. In this episode, we’re going to zoom in on one very specific, very simple, and very effective process that has the potential to have massive positive impacts on ecosystem health throughout the West.
The process is called “low-tech process-based restoration,” which is the practice of adding simple, low-cost structures made of natural materials like rocks, wood, and posts to simulate natural processes like beaver dams in streams and wetlands, kick-starting natural cycles of recovery. These structures require minimal permitting, can be built quickly by hand without heavy equipment, use locally sourced materials, and can be installed by local workers who do not need extensive training. The end result creates surprisingly effective outcomes that can be scaled quickly across vast stretches of the West.
We recorded this conversation the day after Colorado River Day, which was a fitting time to highlight such an important project and process. We started out by discussing how this project came to be, which involved a significant amount of funding from the Inflation Reduction Act. We discuss how rivers have historically looked in the West versus how they look now, as well as the ecological complexities of riverscapes and riparian corridors. We then dig into the details of “low-tech process-based restoration”– timelines, challenges, opportunities, partnerships, and measuring success. We also talk about beavers, shifting cultural norms around conservation, overlaps between forest and riparian restoration, favorite books, and much more.
As you’ll hear, Nancy and Austin provide such an excellent overview of several varieties of low-tech process-based restoration. But for those of you who want to dig deeper into details of the various processes and case studies, they’ve provided me with extensive additional resources that you can access in the episode notes. I’d also encourage you to check out the short film embedded on the episode’s webpage, which will give you a visual overview of the process and its results.
A big thanks to Nancy and Austin for the fun conversation, and thank you for listening.
Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, header photo © Jeremy Roberts
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – Nancy’s intro
- 5:26 – Austin’s intro
- 7:15 – The impact of wet upland meadows on the Colorado River (Nancy)
- 10:00 – How the Inflation Reduction Act has funded TNC’s important partnership work (Nancy)
- 13:30 – Defining the low-tech, process-based, restoration (LTPBR) involved in this project (Austin)
- 16:30 – What meadows have historically looked like in the American West (Austin and Nancy)
- 21:00 – Describing more of the structures TNC uses in this work, like beaver dam analogs (Austin)
- 26:30 – What kind of land TNC does this restoration work on (Austin)
- 29:30 – How long this work takes (Austin and Nancy)
- 33:30 – What success will look like for this work (Nancy)
- 37:30 – How LTPBRs help empower crucial work by being simple
- 40:45 – What could make or break this project (Austin and Nancy)
- 44:00 – TNC’s ability to balance innovation with responsible stewardship of funding (Nancy)
- 46:30 – Overlaps between river and forest restoration (Austin)
- 50:30 – What would make a good staff member for this work
- 55:45 – Nancy’s book recommendations
- 57:00 – Austin’s book recommendations
- 59:18 – Nancy’s parting words of wisdom
- 1:00:10 – Austin’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Nancy Smith
- Austin Rempel
- Other approaches to low-tech process-based restoration
- Rob Addington
- Matt Cahill
- Inflation Reduction Act
- Trout Unlimited
- Wet meadow restoration work
- Examples of LTPBR structures
- A summary of LTPBR work on BLM land
- Beavers’ impacts on wildfire resilience (video)
- The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko
- Water: A Natural History by Alice Outwater
- Eager by Ben Goldfarb
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Ivy Spohnholz – Climate Solutions, Sustainable Fisheries, and Resilient Communities
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Paige Lewis – Durable Conservation, Collective Action, and Strategic Thinking
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
- Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Dr. Alan Townsend – Generosity & Curiosity in the Face of Tragedy
Dr. Alan Townsend is a scientist, author, and Dean of the Franke College of Forestry & Conservation at the University of Montana. His new book is titled This Ordinary Stardust: A Scientist’s Path from Grief to Wonder, and it’s an unbelievably powerful book. It’s the story of Alan’s family being rocked to the core by two unthinkable, back-to-back tragedies– his four-year-old daughter and wife both being diagnosed with brain tumors.
Alan is a highly trained, Ph.D.-level scientist who spent his entire career using cold hard facts, emotionless inquiry, and academic rigor to try and solve some of the world’s most pressing problems. Yet when faced with a father/husband’s worst nightmare, he was forced to accept that science alone was simply not enough to make it through the gauntlet. I was blown away by Alan’s insightfulness and vulnerability and how he managed to constructively meld science and spirituality to make sense of an unimaginable catastrophe.
Alan was born in Hawaii and grew up in Montana, where he spent much of his youth hunting, fishing, and exploring the West’s wide-open landscapes. His education and career in science allowed him to delve deeper into the natural world, giving him an even more intense respect and appreciation for the beautifully complex biological systems that make our world work. He’s worked in Amazonian forests and Costa Rican jungles, and he’s published more than 140 peer-reviewed articles. But, as you’ll hear in this conversation, Alan also embraces the more ethereal and unknown aspects of our existence, and he has a gift for discussing and writing about them in a very powerful and helpful manner.
We met up at Alan’s office at the University of Montana, and had a very meaningful conversation about grief, curiosity, generosity, open-mindedness, focus, and family. We discussed Alan’s upbringing in Montana, his path to becoming such a highly trained scientist, and his process of re-evaluating the limits and usefulness of science in the face of tragedy. We talked a lot about his late wife Diana and her unbelievable toughness and his daughter Neva, who thankfully beat the tumor and is now a happy and healthy young lady. We discussed the compassion and skill of medical professionals, Alan’s years-long process of writing the book, and the indispensable role of his agent and editor. Alan also offers some wise, hard-earned wisdom for anyone who may be going through their own set of challenges.
I loved this conversation, I loved the book, and I really appreciate Alan taking the time to talk with me. Be sure to click through the link in the notes to grab your own copy of This Ordinary Stardust. Enjoy!
—
Photos courtesy of Alan Townsend
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:10 – An introduction to the power of Alan’s book
- 6:10 – The importance of focus in Alan’s book, and the strength of Alan’s wife and daughter
- 10:40 – Discussing Alan’s writing
- 13:40 – Alan’s birth and early childhood in Hawaii
- 15:30 – When science became a focus for Alan
- 17:00 – Alan’s reading choices
- 18:45 – When Alan found out his daughter Neva had a brain tumor
- 21:00 – How Alan got through this incredibly challenging period in his life
- 23:15 – The importance of routine for finding mental stability and peace in difficult times
- 25:15 – The power of curiosity in Alan and his wife, Diana’s, life after Diana was diagnosed with brain cancer
- 27:45 – The difference between people who are curious when it is easy to do so and those who remain curious when life becomes difficult
- 30:15 – Why Alan reevaluated his relationship with science, and how he challenges readers to do a similar reevaluation in his book
- 37:15 – How we share more than we don’t, regardless of political belief
- 39:15 – How Diana invited Michael Brown into their home to learn more about his work with FEMA, demonstrating the importance of respecting and learning from people with different opinions
- 45:00 – Unpacking the theme of generosity in Alan’s book
- 47:45 – How Alan handled vulnerability and the desire for this book to have impact
- 49:45 – Alan’s relationship with his agent and editor
- 52:15 – Discussing Doctor Henry Freedman
- 56:00 – Alan’s take on how doctors dealing with mortality are able to handle the difficulties of that subject on a daily basis
- 58:15 – Alan’s work right now
- 1:01:30 – The next 5-10 years for Alan
- 1:02:45 – Of generosity, curiosity, and the willingness to fail
- 1:03:45 – Alan’s book recommendations
- 1:08:00 – Alan’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- This Ordinary Stardust by Alan Townsend
- Doctor Henry Friedman
- John Krakauer
- Underland by Robert MacFarlane
- The Overstory by Richard Powers
- Katherine Hayhoe
- Micheal Brown
- Jesse Helms
- Anna Sproul-Latimer
- Maddie Caldwell
- W.A. Franke College of Forestry and Conservation
- Yemi Mobolade
- Peter Heller
- Body of Water by Chris Dombroski
- True West by Betsy Gaines Quammen
- Whiskey When We’re Dry by John Larison
- A Responsibility to Awe by Rebecca Elson
- In Old Sky by Lauren Camp
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Chris Dombrowski, Part 2 – “The River You Touch”
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then you’ll definitely remember Pete McBride. He’s a renowned photographer, filmmaker, and author, and he’s joined me on the podcast twice before– once to discuss his epic hike of the length of the Grand Canyon, and then to chat about his global search for silence in a very loud world. I’m glad to say that he’s back again, and this time, we’re chatting about his backyard river– the mighty Colorado– and the challenges, opportunities, and realities facing the people and wildlife that depend on it.
Pete’s newest book is titled The Colorado River: Chasing Water, and it features Pete’s stunning photography and insightful essays, along with a foreword by Nick Paumgarten and an introduction by Kevin Fedarko. The book follows the Colorado River from its headwaters in the Rocky Mountains all the way down to the Colorado River Delta, where it peters out just before reaching the Gulf of California.
I’ve read a lot of books about the Colorado River and water in the West, but Chasing Water opened my eyes to a number of very specific and sometimes-maddening challenges facing the Colorado River Basin. The book delves into issues such as the unchecked exportation of water-intensive alfalfa to foreign countries, how dust leads to increased evaporation and water loss, as well as more optimistic topics, such as how Las Vegas has become an imperfect-yet-inspiring case study in responsible water conservation. But at its core, the book demonstrates Pete’s deep love and respect for the Colorado River, and showcases his two decades of dedication to telling the story of this world-famous waterway.
We met up at Pete’s house in Basalt, overlooking the Roaring Fork River, and talked about all things water and conservation. We started by talking about Pete’s father, and how his advice many years ago led Pete to shift his focus from global adventure photography to the Colorado River. We discussed the disconnect between people and their water sources, the challenge of using an over-appropriated water source to grow food for an entire country, Pete’s firsthand experience observing changes in the river and surrounding landscape, his work with Indigenous communities throughout the basin, and his preferences between photography, filmmaking, and writing. We also discuss some of his recent favorite books, and much, much more.
Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed and links to all of Pete’s books.
A big thanks to Pete for graciously letting me barge into his house and hassle him with questions yet again, and thank you for listening.
—
Photos courtesy of Pete McBride
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – All the places Pete has seen in the Colorado River watershed
- 6:30 – How Pete’s dad influenced Pete’s career
- 11:30 – The immense changes to the Colorado River over the course of Pete’s father’s lifetime
- 13:00 – Reconciling how much of the West’s water comes from the Colorado, and how few people know it
- 14:30 – Pete’s hope for his new book
- 18:00 – Pete’s style of writing for this visual book
- 21:00 – Discussing how much Colorado River water goes to cattle and cattle feed, and the water challenges that face agriculture
- 29:00 – The impact of dust on Rocky Mountain snow, and how that impacts the Colorado River
- 34:30 – Highlighting an unexpected water conservation success story: Las Vegas, and how southwestern cities can start conserving their water.
- 39:00 – How many times Colorado River water has been reused along its trek to Mexico, and discussing the state of the Colorado River Delta
- 44:45 – How Peter wants to divide his time between books and films, and a discussion about “earning” hope
- 53:00 – Pete’s work with Indigenous communities’ access to Colorado River Water
- 1:01:00 – Pete’s book recommendations
Information Referenced:
- Pete McBride
- Pete’s earlier Mountain & Prairie appearances
- The Colorado River: Chasing Water by Pete McBride
- Seeing Silence: The Beauty of the World’s Quietest Places by Pete McBride
- The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim by Pete McBride
- Into the Grand Canyon documentary
- Hampton Sides
- Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
- The Wide, Wide Sea by Hampton Sides
- Taylor Hawes
- Maroon Bells
- Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station
- Nick Paumgarten
- Kris Thompkins
- A Walk in the Park by Kevin Fedarko
- San Juan River
- Little Colorado River
- Havasupai Tribe
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Taylor Hawes – Innovative Conservation in the Colorado River Basin
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Hampton Sides Returns: The Wild and Tragic Tale of Captain James Cook
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Peter Gower & Chris Menges – Forward-Looking Approaches to the West’s Energy Transition
Peter Gower is the Nature Conservancy’s Climate and Renewable Energy Program Director for the Western United States and Canada Divisions, and Chris Menges is the Director of Climate Action for the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy. Both Peter and Chris are on the front lines of North America’s transition from fossil fuels to renewables, working to find solutions that protect and benefit working lands, natural landscapes, wildlife, and communities.
As you’ll hear in this episode, the transition from fossil fuels to renewables is an incredibly complex process, and Peter and Chris are highly skilled at breaking down the issues and explaining them in a substantive yet easy-to-understand manner. While the details of their work may be complicated, everything Peter and Chris do is built on the very simple foundation of strong relationships, partnerships, and trust, which has been the common theme of all of these TNC-focused episodes.
We connected virtually and had a great conversation about The Nature Conservancy’s work in the renewables space, exploring everything from TNC’s big-picture strategies in the American West, down to a few on-the-ground examples of successful initiatives and projects. We discussed how TNC is working with Western states to help them achieve their energy goals and some of the specific renewable work being done here in Colorado.
We also talked about the challenges of finding sites for renewable energy projects, how market incentives can be used to ensure siting that benefits both people and nature, and recently passed legislation in Colorado that addresses these issues. We chatted about TNC’s extensive research in the renewables space, including its Power of Place studies. As usual, we discuss their favorite books and some resources to learn more about the issues surrounding renewable energy.
Renewable energy has long been one of those topics that I have never been able to fully wrap my head around, but after this conversation, I felt that I had a solid foundation of knowledge– as well as the curiosity and desire to go out and learn more.
A huge thanks to Peter and Chris for devoting the time to have this extremely educational conversation, and thank you for listening.
Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:20 – The state of renewables in the West (Peter)
- 8:05 – Chris’s renewable work on the ground in CO with TNC (Chris)
- 12:35- Challenges and opportunities associated with finding physical sites for renewable projects (Chris)
- 15:50 – Examples of market incentives that Chris thinks would help develop renewable sites to the benefit of as many interests as possible (Chris and Peter)
- 22:20 – Discussing the Power of Place studies (Peter)
- 26:35 – Other major challenges to implementing more renewable energy solutions (Peter)
- 33:05 – Discussing the Connected West study, to be released soon (Peter)
- 36:20 – Building relationships with businesses and large entities (Peter)
- 39:05 – Discussing Colorado SB24-212 (Chris)
- 47:35 – Developing renewable energy sites on “brownfields” (Peter)
- 51:05 – Where to learn more about renewable energy (Peter and Chris)
Information Referenced:
- Peter Gower
- Chris Menges
- TNC’s energy work
- Bill Ritter
- Site Renewables Right tool
- Power of Place West Report
- GridLab
- Gridworks
- Matt Moorhead
- CO SB24-212
- Brunot Agreement Area
- Renewable energy development on “brownfields”
- The EPA’s Repowering Program
- TNC’s Starfire Project
- BrightNight
- Rivian
- A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson
- Collapse by Jared Diamond
- The Ezra Klein Show
- Political Climate Podcast
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Carrie Segil & Duncan Gilchrist – Catalyzing Conservation in Colorado and Beyond
- Ivy Spohnholz – Climate Solutions, Sustainable Fisheries, and Resilient Communities
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
- Carlos Fernández, Part 2 – Creating Conservation Opportunities During Uncertain Times
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Beatriz Soto – Bridging Cultural Divides & Building Equitable Communities
Beatriz Soto is the Director of Protégete, a statewide program from Conservation Colorado, whose mission is to elevate Latino-driven solutions to protect our lands, water, air, and fight for environmental and climate justice. Prior to joining Conservation Colorado, she held a number of leadership and founding positions with conservation-focused organizations here in Colorado. At her core, Beatriz is a gifted and highly effective leader, one who combines her professional expertise with her unique personal story to act as a cultural bridge and give voices to both underrepresented communities and the threatened lands and waters of the West.
Beatriz is originally from Chihuahua, Mexico, and she spent her childhood and youth in a bicultural setting between Mexico and the United States. She graduated from Colorado’s Basalt High School, and then went on to study architecture back in Chihuahua City, Mexico. For nearly 20 years, she applied her talents in architecture and design to a wide range of projects, from Net-Zero affordable housing projects to high-performance strawbale homes and everything in between, in locations ranging from the Pacific Coast of Mexico to Colorado’s Roaring Fork Valley. But as you’ll hear in the conversation, she eventually realized that she wanted to work more directly on issues including conservation and community vitality, so she pivoted and began her new career as a conservation leader in Colorado.
Beatriz and I connected virtually and had an inspirational and instructive conversation about her amazing life story and her present-day conservation work. We talked about her bicultural upbringing between Mexico and the US, and the realities of growing up as an undocumented child. We discussed her family’s emphasis on service and community, and how those values have expressed themselves throughout her career. We talk about the uncertainty that accompanied her transition from a career in architecture to a career in conservation and advocacy, and why she decided to apply her talents to the mission of Conservation Colorado. We discuss the mind-boggling process of becoming an American citizen, how she builds trust with community stakeholders, her favorite books, and much more. Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we covered.
A huge thank you to Beatriz for taking the time to share her wisdom, and thank you for listening.
Photos courtesy of Beatriz Soto.
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.
To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.
Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.
To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Beatriz’s childhood
- 5:30- What brought Beatriz and her family from Mexico to the US
- 8:30 – Reflecting on adaptation within Beatriz’s very mobile childhood
- 11:30 – Whether or not looking back on the US from Mexico changed Beatriz’s outlook on the US
- 14:00 – Beatriz’s experience growing up undocumented, and how that affected her upbringing
- 17:45 – Where Beatriz’s commitment to service comes from
- 22:45 – The importance of community
- 24:15 – Beatriz’s goals in college
- 26:30 – Beatriz’s work in design and architecture
- 33:00 – Beatriz’s shift away from design and architecture, and the fear that comes with transitions like that
- 36:30 – How long it took Beatriz to feel like it was the right move to shift from professional architecture to conservation work
- 39:30 – When Conservation Colorado came into Beatriz’s world
- 43:15 – Beatriz’s day-to-day work with Conservation Colorado
- 48:30 – Whether or not leaders and stakeholders are happy to hear from Beatriz and her team
- 51:15 – How Beatriz handles rejections from potential partners
- 53:30 – Discussing the Colorado Latino Justice Handbook
- 1:00:00 – What is next for Beatriz
- 1:02:45 – How Beatriz became a documented American
- 1:04:30 – Discussing how to simplify an overcomplicated immigration process
- 1:08:45 – Beatriz’s book recommendations
- 1:11:15 – Beatriz’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Beatriz Soto
- Conservation Colorado
- Protégete
- Roaring Fork Valley
- The Wilderness Workshop
- Garfield County
- 501(c)(3) vs 501(c)(4)
- Colorado Latino Climate Justice Policy Handbook
- DACA
- Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
- An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
- Billionaire Wilderness by Justin Farrell
- Black Earth Wisdom by Leah Penniman
- Emergent Strategy by adrienne maree brown
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- Chris Hawkins – Using Nature to Build Healthier & More Equitable Communities
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Equitable Access to the Outdoors in Texas
- Betsy Gaines Quammen – A Fascinating History of Public Lands in the West
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
“Good Fire, Bad Fire” – A Film and Discussion about Forest Health
This is a special episode recorded live in Bozeman at the premiere of the important new short film titled Good Fire, Bad Fire: Inside the Race to Restore America’s Forests.
On the evening of May 16, 2024, around 200 folks gathered at Bozeman’s Museum of the Rockies to watch the 15-minute film, which captures the breathtaking beauty of our nation’s forests and delves into the urgent crisis threatening their existence. Following the screening, I moderated a panel discussion featuring an extremely impressive line-up of some of the nation’s leading conservationists and forest-health experts. The on-stage conversation gave us the opportunity to dig deeper into some of the issues raised by the film, and glean valuable insights into the importance of responsible forest management from ecological, recreational, economic, and policy perspectives.
Good Fire, Bad Fire was directed by filmmaker Eric Ian, and produced by the team at the Property and Environment Research Center, better known as PERC, who also hosted the event. The panelists you’ll hear in this episode are:
- Brian Ferebee, Chief Executive of Intergovernmental Relations for the U.S. Forest Service
- Randy Newberg, renowned conservationist and Host of Fresh Tracks with Randy Newberg and Hunt Talk Radio
- Morgan Varner, Director of Fire Research at Tall Timbers
- Corey Lewellen, District Ranger for the Bozeman Ranger District
- Hannah Downey, Policy Director at PERC
- Brian Yablonski, CEO of PERC (and a past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest)
I could’ve spoken with each of these experts individually for several hours, but having them all share a stage and combine their wide range of expertise into a single conversation was a powerfully educational experience.
While you can listen to this episode on its own, I would strongly encourage you to first spend 15 minutes watching Good Fire, Bad Fire as a primer.
I’d also encourage you to check out the episode notes below for a full list of all of the topics we discussed, which included everything from a history of fire as a resource management tool to the Forest Service’s evolving approach to wildfires and forest health. We talked about forest health’s impact on hunting and fishing, the pros and cons of policies such as the ESA and NEPA, on-the-ground success stories, optimistic good news about the future of forest health, and much more. There were tons of resources mentioned, all of which are listed and linked below.
A huge thanks to Brian Yablonski and the team at PERC for creating such an important film and for inviting me to participate in such an enlightening conversation. I hope you enjoy the film as much as I did, and I hope that this discussion provides some new insights into the all-important issue of forest health in the American West.
PHOTO GALLERY
All photos courtesy of PERC
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:15 – Introductions
- 6:15 – Where the USFS stands right now on its approach to wildfire and forest health (Brian F)
- 8:45 – A hunter and public lands advocate’s perspective on the state of the forests (Randy)
- 10:30 – A brief history of how fire became a resource management tool in the US and before the US (Morgan)
- 13:45 – Discussing obstacles to the forest management work described in Good Fire, Bad Fire (Corey)
- 18:00 – How we can streamline large federal processes like the ESA and NEPA (Hannah)
- 21:00 – Why PERC became involved in this forestry work (Brian Y)
- 23:15 – What is preventing ideal progress on forest management in Montana (Brian F)
- 27:30 – How Randy would recommend hunters and anglers take action and advocate for forest health
- 31:00 – Discussing how lessons in forest management from the Southeast can impact forestry in MT (Morgan)
- 35:15 – On-the-ground success stories in forest management (Corey)
- 39:45 – An example of fire outpacing procedure, and the impacts that can have (Hannah)
- 41:15 – How discussions of conservation and forestry are received by elected officials (Hannah)
- 43:00 – Predictions for the next five years of forest management (Morgan and Randy)
- 47:15 – Brian Y’s optimistic take on the state of forest stewardship
Information Referenced:
- Brian Ferebee
- Morgan Varner
- Randy Newberg
- Corey Lewellen
- Hannah Downy
- Brian Yablonski
- PERC
- Greater Yellowstone Coalition
- Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
- Good Fire, Bad Fire
- Spotted Owl
- Eric Ian
- Tall Timbers Research Station
- Bobwhite Quail
- Denver Water
- Silverthorne, CO
- Kristine Thompkins
- Washburn Fire
- Mariposa Grove
- National Wild Turkey Federation
- Pheasants Forever
- Good Neighbor Authority
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Live from Maxwell Alexander Gallery
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Live with the Cowboy Artists of America
- Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
- Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
- Kelsey Johnson – Chasing Her Artistic Ambitions
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
SHED SESSION – Everything I Know About Starting a Podcast
This is a special Shed Session episode, normally published exclusively for Mountain & Prairie Patreon supporters. In it, I answer the most common question I receive, which is some variation of:
“How do I start a podcast?”
In this episode, I answer that question in excruciating detail, laying out everything I know about it, based on my own bumbling, meandering, eight-year journey through Podcastlandia.
I hope this episode will provide a little bit of actionable guidance that will allow you to put your own unique ideas into the world.
To listen to all past, present, and future Patreon-exclusive episodes, you can sign up at www.mountainandprairie.com/patreon. Memberships start at as little as $2 per month.
Back to the regular episodes next week!!
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:15 – Intro
- 6:55 – Disclaimers
- 10:00 – How and why I started Mountain & Prairie
- 22:13 – Intentions
- 28:12 – Getting started + endurance
- 39:25 – Finding your voice, authenticity, and enthusiasm
- 52:55 – Finding your audience
- 1:03:09 – Interview techniques
- 1:08:48 – Finding guests
- 1:11:40 – Dealing with negative feedback
- 1:15:14 – Equipment and editing
- 1:21:38 – Money (least important!)
- 1:25:54 – Further reading
Information Referenced:
- Ed’s 2024 Freeflow Course on the Rogue River
- Seth Godin Books: Purple Cow, Tribes, This is Marketing, The Practice
- Steven Pressfield Books: The War of Art, Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh!t
- Originals by Adam Grant
- 1000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly
- Conan interviewing Jack White
- Spreadsheet with all my podcast equipment
To listen to all past, present, and future Patreon-exclusive episodes, you can sign up at www.mountainandprairie.com/patreon. Memberships start at as little as $2 per month.
Dan Stellar – Bolstering Biodiversity in Arizona and Beyond
Dan Stellar is the State Director for the Arizona Chapter of The Nature Conservancy, where he leads the organization’s efforts across a wide range of cutting-edge initiatives, including forest health, water conservation, resilient cities, healthy grasslands, and more. Arizona is one of the nation’s largest and most biodiverse states, which creates a host of extremely unique conservation challenges and opportunities– both in its arid, wide-open landscapes and densely populated urban centers. As you’ll hear, Dan and his team are implementing conservation solutions that not only benefit people and nature specifically in Arizona, but they are also creating actionable conservation frameworks that can be applied all over the American West.
Dan was born and raised on the East Coast, and he has spent his career in the non-profit sector, applying his talents to important issues both domestically and abroad. He began his tenure at TNC Arizona in 2016, when he assumed the role of Deputy State Director. He quickly fell in love with Arizona and TNC’s critical work in the state, and, in 2020, he assumed the role of State Director. Dan is also a committed endurance athlete, and he’s run a mind-blowing number of marathons and half-marathons. And on top of all of that, he’s a dedicated father, husband, and family man.
Dan and I share so many common interests in conservation, endurance sports, and family, so I was super excited to have the opportunity to learn more about the specifics of his work and his fascinating personal and professional journey. We started the conversation with an overview of what makes Arizona such a unique place from a conservation perspective, then we dug into the details of TNC’s work in forest heath, rivers, aquifers, outdoor recreation, and resilient cities. We talked about some of the lessons he learned from traveling and working internationally, why he chooses to push himself so hard athletically, and how he goes about building such strong relationships with stakeholders, partner organizations, and his TNC team members. Dan is also a voracious reader, so we obviously chatted about books, and he wrapped up the conversation with very wise parting words.
I felt like I’d met a real kindred spirit in Dan, and I greatly appreciate everything that he and his team are doing to make Arizona—and the West—a better place. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy: Header image by Ian Adrian/TNC Photo Contest 2022; headshot by Mark Skalny.
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Setting the scene for conservation work in Arizona
- 8:45 – Forest health work in Arizona
- 15:00 – Aligning profit motives with forest health goals
- 22:00 – Whether or not there are down-sides to forest thinning
- 25:15 – Discussing the Verde River
- 31:15 – Discussing the Big Chino Aquifer
- 35:00 – Collaborating with the Trust for Public Land to build a new park in Arizona
- 39:45 – TNC’s work with cities in Arizona
- 46:00 – Dan’s passion for running, and his attraction to doing hard things
- 50:15 – How Dan fits running into his schedule
- 52:00 – How Dan became interested in conservation
- 57:30 – Dan’s lessons from traveling
- 1:00:00 – Dan’s book recommendations
- 1:04:30 – Dan’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Dan Stellar
- Article about Dan
- The Nature Conservancy in Arizona
- Rob Addington
- Verde River
- Taylor Hawes
- Yavapai-Apache Nation
- Big Chino Aquifer
- RCPP Grant
- Del Rio Springs
- Chris Hawkins
- Paige Lewis
- Endurance by Alfred Lansing
- American Icon by Bryce G. Hoffman
- Alan Mulally
- Radical Candor by Kim Scott
- The Imposter Cure by Dr. Jessamy Hibberd
- Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
- Van Jones
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Sarah King – Collaborative Conservation in the American Southwest
- William deBuys – Sage of the Southwest
- Daniela Ibarra-Howell – Healing the Land Holistically
- Shane Doyle – Reverence for the Past, Hope for the Future
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
- Chad Ellis – On Leadership, Building Relationships, and Working for the Greater Good
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
Sandy Colhoun is the President of the National Outdoor Leadership School, also known as NOLS.
Founded in 1965 by legendary mountaineer Paul Petzolt, NOLS is widely considered to be the world’s premier wilderness school, and its mission is “to be the leading source and teacher of wilderness skills and leadership that serve people and the environment.” NOLS operates in many of the world’s wildest outdoor classrooms, and it provides the highest quality instruction in many outdoor skills, including wilderness travel, mountaineering, rock climbing, sea kayaking, and more. But perhaps most importantly, through these outdoor adventures, NOLS students learn the foundational and all-important life skills of leadership, teamwork, humility, and responsibility.
Sandy was named the seventh President of NOLS in October of 2023, after serving as the interim President and, before that, as a member of the NOLS Board of Trustees. Prior to his work with NOLS, he had spent much of his career in the worlds of education and journalism, most notably leading a $750 million fundraising campaign at Colby College in Maine. Sandy is also a proud graduate of a NOLS Wind River Mountaineering course, and he’s no stranger to hardcore outdoor adventures– he worked as a ski patroller in Park City, climbed in Alaska, Nepal, and Bolivia, and cycled up and over the Himalayas from Tibet to Nepal. As you’ll hear in our conversation, he’s focused, driven, and lots of fun, and he’s s fully committed to leading NOLS into the future.
I’m a proud graduate of a 1999 semester-long NOLS course, which was hands-down one of the most formative and valuable experiences of my entire life. Yes, I learned plenty of outdoor skills that have served me well for nearly 25 years now, but the most important lessons were those that taught me the value of good exhibition behavior, being comfortable in uncomfortable situations, and keeping a positive attitude when life gets difficult. If not for that semester, I highly doubt I would’ve ever moved out west, worked in conservation, or started this podcast. So, I’m obviously a superfan of all things NOLS.
I was so excited to chat with Sandy, and we covered a lot in our hour-long conversation. We discussed the history of NOLS, what separates NOLS from other wilderness schools, risk management, exhibition behavior, expanding one’s comfort zone, a description of the ideal NOLS student, Sandy’s own leadership style, his vision for the future of NOLS, how he will measure success, leaders that Sandy admires, favorite books, and much more. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discuss.
A huge thank you to Sandy for being so generous with his time and for everything he and the entire team at NOLS do to make the world a better place. Thanks for listening, and I hope you enjoy!
—
All photos by Ruby Jean Photography and courtesy of NOLS
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – A brief history of NOLS
- 8:15 – What sets NOLS apart from other outdoor schools
- 10:30 – Discussing NOLS’ partnerships
- 13:00 – How NOLS manages risk
- 16:30 – The talent of NOLS instructors
- 19:00 – What “expedition behavior” is
- 22:15 – How NOLS recruits students in a world that prioritizes job opportunities and career advancement
- 24:45 – How NOLS expands one’s comfort zone
- 28:45 – The ideal NOLS student
- 30:15 – Determining the next chapter of NOLS in the early 2020s
- 33:30 – Sandy’s career pre-NOLS
- 37:00 – Sandy’s leadership style
- 42:30 – How Sandy got his mind around the task of taking the helm at NOLS
- 46:00 – Measuring future success at NOLS
- 49:00 – Leaders that Sandy admires
- 52:15 – Sandy’s book recommendations
- 58:15 – Sandy’s parting words of wisdom, and how you can support NOLS
Information Referenced:
- Sandy Colhoun
- NOLS
- Paul Petzoldt
- Morehead-Cain Foundation
- Wilderness Risk Management Conference
- Freeflow Institute
- Colby College
- It’s Your Ship by Captain D. Michael Abrashoff
- Jocko Willink
- Good to Great by Jim Collins
- Three Peaks Ranch
- Ian Symmonds
- General George Brown
- Jay Stroud
- Tabor Academy
- Jimmy Chin
- Stuart Harris
- The Snow Leopard by Peter Matthiessen
- 100 Years of Solitude by Gabrielle Garcia Marquez
- Start with Why by Simon Sinek
- Good to Great by Jim Collins
- Tribe by Sebastian Junger
- Wendell Berry
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- David Gessner Returns – “A Traveler’s Guide to the End of the World”
- Chandra Brown, Part 2 – Teaching & Learning in the West’s Wildest Landscapes
- Mike Foote – Perfection is in the Process
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
Kami Bakken is a river guide and outdoor advocate, and she currently serves as the Director of the Freeflow Foundation and Director of Ambassador and Grant Programs for Rivers for Change. A native of Minnesota, Kami headed West for college at Colorado State University, where she earned a degree in Human Dimensions of Natural Resources. Since graduating in 2018, she has been fully focused on helping others explore and appreciate the mountains and rivers of the American West, while also advocating for their protection and conservation.
Kami and I met in 2023 when she was the facilitator on my Green River Freeflow Institute workshop through Dinosaur National Monument and the Gates of Lodore. During our weeks of preparation for the course and our five days on the river, I was so impressed by her expertise in outdoor education and river travel and, perhaps more importantly, by her ability to connect with a wide range of people in a sometimes-intense wilderness setting. She’s humble yet confident, earnest yet hilarious, and I credit her with so much of the success of that workshop.
When I was in my late 20s and deep in a traditional career in the real estate business, I dreamed of having a life and career like Kami’s– one that combined adventure and wide-open spaces with purpose-driven work. So I wanted to chat with her in depth to learn more about how she has made it all happen. If, like I was, you are interested in learning the realities of following a non-traditional but deeply fulfilling career in the outdoors, then you’ll definitely learn a lot from Kami.
We met up a few weeks ago at my house in the Springs and had a wide-ranging and funny conversation about her life, career, adventures, and crazy misadventures. We talked about what drew her to Colorado for college, and some of the challenges of adjusting to such a new place and environment where she didn’t know anyone. We discussed some of her wild experiences traveling in the West and internationally– including a few run-ins with cult-like groups– and how she took the leap to become a sea kayaking guide and eventually a western river guide. We talk a lot about her commitment to pushing outside of her comfort zone, overcoming fear and discomfort, and why she’s drawn to conservation work. We also discuss the financial realities of seasonal work, how her non-profit work compliments her guiding work, her career plans for the future, and her roles with the Freeflow Institute and Foundation.
And it’s worth noting that Kami and I will be heading out on the river again this summer for another Freeflow workshop, this time on Oregon’s Wild & Scenic Rogue River– August 15th through 20th. As of this recording, there are still a few spots left, so you can follow the link to learn more about the workshop and apply. As of this moment, you can use the secret code “ED200” to get $200 off of the tuition.
A huge thanks to Kami for agreeing to let me ask her a bunch of weird questions and, most importantly, for all of her leadership and support on our river trips. Enjoy!
—
All photos courtesy of Kami Bakken
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:00 – Where Kami is from
- 5:00 – Why Kami went to Colorado State, and how her family felt about that decision
- 9:00 – How her early experience in Colorado led her to WWOOF (and apparently a couple of cults)
- 15:30 – Kami’s return to CSU, and her entry into the world of outdoor recreation
- 19:30 – Kami’s travel adventures post-graduation
- 22:00 – Kami’s time with Protect Our Winters
- 24:15 – Kami’s transition to professional guiding
- 27:45 – Where Kami’s desire for connection and impact led her career next
- 31:45 – What Kami’s friends from college were doing while she was raft guiding, and whether or not she has ever questioned her career path
- 33:30 – Exploring the difference between contentment and happiness, and some more details about the outdoor education and rafting nonprofit that Kami worked for
- 37:15 – Kami’s transition to the Freeflow Foundation
- 44:00 – Discussing the Freeflow Foundation
- 45:45 – Balancing safety with growth driven by risk
- 50:00 – The trip that Ed and Kami did together on the Green River
- 54:45 – What makes for a good outdoor guide, and what makes for a bad one
- 59:00 – Who Kami admires
- 1:03:00 – Kami’s next steps
- 1:05:45 – What worries Kami
- 1:09:00 – Kami’s book recommendations
- 1:10:30 – Kami’s advice for those who want to try a new lifestyle or career
Information Referenced:
- Kami on Instagram and LinkedIn
- Freeflow Institute
- Freeflow Foundation
- Ed’s upcoming 2024 Freeflow Program on the Rogue River
- Randolph, MN
- WWOOF
- Jenna Pollard
- Jesus Ranch by Tenacious D
- Protect Our Winters
- Channel Islands
- Kristine Tompkins
- Tribe by Sebastian Junger
- Canyonlands Field Institute
- Chandra Brown
- Chris La Tray
- David James Duncan
- American Whitewater
- American Rivers
- American Prairie
- NRS
- Dinosaur River Expeditions
- Oma plata
- Kate Bollen
- Lindsay Bourgoine
- Canyons River Company
- Brook Hess
- Katie Lee
- Secret Knowledge of Water by Craig Childs
- The BFG by Roald Dahl
- The Desert Oracle by Ken Layne
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Chandra Brown, Part 2 – Teaching & Learning in the West’s Wildest Landscapes
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Christy Sing Robertson – On Grit, Hard Work, & Going All In
- Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
- Amber Smith – Creating Connection & Community
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Hampton Sides Returns: The Wild and Tragic Tale of Captain James Cook
Hampton Sides is a Santa Fe-based historian and bestselling author who has written many books that are favorites of Mountain & Prairie listeners, including Blood and Thunder, On Desperate Ground, and Ghost Soldiers. His newest book is The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook, which is available now and sitting high on the New York Times bestseller list. If you’re a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then I’m sure you’re glad to see that Hampton has joined me for yet another podcast conversation.
Much of Captain Cook’s epic third voyage takes place far from the mountains and prairies of the American West, in tropical paradises including Tahiti and Hawaii. But what you may not realize, is that a big portion of his final voyage was spent exploring and mapping the west coast of North America, from the rocky shores of present-day Oregon and Washington, all the way up to Alaska. While I was somewhat familiar with Cook and his explorations, I didn’t fully understand or appreciate the mind-blowing scale of his journeys or his impact on world history.
As is the case with all of Hampton’s books, he melds together deep and extensive research with thrilling storytelling to make the process of understanding history as entertaining as it is educational. While Cook is obviously a central figure in The Wide Wide Sea, the book also profiles numerous fascinating Polynesian and Indigenous historical figures, including the Tahitian man named Mai, whom Hampton and I discussed at length in our September 2021 episode. If you haven’t already listened to that episode, I’d encourage you to do so when you’re done with this one.
Hampton and I met up here in Colorado Springs, one of many stops on his book tour for The Wide Wide Sea. As usual, we had a fun and at times very funny conversation about history, his research and writing process, and all things Captain Cook. We started out discussing why Hampton is drawn to write about controversial historical figures, and we talked at length about how he combined historical accounts from Europeans with those from the Indigenous communities that Cook visited. We talked about the mystery of Cook’s dramatic personality change, how Cook’s arrival disrupted the equilibrium of Polynesian cultures, Cook’s leadership style both before and after his personality change, how Hampton organized such massive amounts of research, and how and why he works so hard to get his books into the world. He also gives a sneak peek into his next book, which will based here in Colorado and explores one of the West’s most notorious massacres.
A huge thank you to Hampton for taking time out of his busy schedule to chat with me again, and thank you for listening. Enjoy!
—
All photos courtesy of Hampton Sides
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 7:00 – Why write about Captain Cook
- 10:45 – Captain Cook, pre-1776
- 16:45 – Cook’s ship
- 21:15 – Exploring Cook’s mental health
- 25:30 – Exploring humans’ predisposition towards greed
- 29:30 – The importance of doing boots-on-the-ground research for history
- 32:00 – How Cook kept scurvy at bay
- 34:30 – Hampton’s biggest unexpected discovery while writing The Wide Wide Sea
- 38:00 – Whether or not Hampton experienced apprehensions about telling the story of a complicated person like Cook
- 42:00 – Discussing the circumstances that led to Cook’s death
- 45:45 – Discussing some of Cook’s personality traits and cultural differences between Cook and the Māori
- 49:30 – How Hampton organizes his quotes for writing
- 53:45 – How Hampton actually sells his books
- 58:00 – Hampton’s plans for the future
Information Referenced:
- The Wide Wide Sea by Hampton Sides
- Hampton’s episode discussing Mai
- Hampton’s second M&P episode
- Hampton and Ed live at the Aspen Institute
- Captain James Cook
- Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides
- Joseph Banks
- Sciatica
- Kerguelen Islands
- Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides
- Ernest Shackelton
- The Wager by David Grann
- John Milton Chivington
- The Sand Creek Massacre
- Silas Soule
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- Peter Stark – Tales of Adventure, Exploration, & Epic Battles
- Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
Celene Hawkins is the Colorado River Tribal Water Partnerships Program Director for the Nature Conservancy, and Izabella Ruffino is the Tribal and Indigenous Engagement Program Manager for the Colorado Chapter of the Nature Conservancy. Both Celene and Izabella use their skills to advance and support tribal-led land and water conservation work throughout the American West.
Most of Celene’s work is centered around the Colorado River Basin, and she has played an integral role in many cutting-edge water conservation projects that have sought out Tribal voices and Indigenous perspectives to create some of the West’s most effective and equitable solutions to complex water challenges. Perhaps most notably, she worked with the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and her colleagues at TNC to create a first-of-its-kind water agreement that was a true win-win for nature and people.
Izabella’s work builds on TNC’s strong foundation of partnerships with Tribal Nations for land and water issues, and she is also focused on expanding Tribal and Indigenous engagement into all aspects of TNC’s wide-ranging conservation work. Additionally, she is responsible for internal efforts to fortify organizational cultural awareness and humility within TNC’s Colorado Chapter. As you’ll hear, Izabella is doing everything from leading internal educational initiatives to working with wide-ranging stakeholder groups on projects such as determining the best uses for TNC-owned land and preserves.
In this episode, we dig into the details of many of their specific projects and initiatives, but we also talk more broadly about the importance of seeking out Indigenous perspectives to help guide TNC’s critical conservation work worldwide. They both offer plentiful resources– online courses, books, podcasts, essays, and more– that will help me (and you, the listener!) better understand the importance of bringing together diverse perspectives to guide the next chapter of conversation work in the West and beyond.
Celene and Izabella mention so many excellent books, people, and resources, so don’t forget to check out the episode notes for links to everything. A big thanks to them both for such a fun, inspiring, and educational conversation. I hope you enjoy!
Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy: Header © Roberto Rosales; headshots from Celene and Izabella.
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Introductions
- 8:30 – The win-win partnership between the Jicarilla Apache Nation, the New Mexico Interstate Stream Commission, and TNC
- 14:00- Challenges and opportunities related to putting together the partnership deal
- 19:00 – Benefits to all parties as a result of the deal
- 21:30 – Positive ripple effects resulting from the partnership
- 24:15 – TNC’s strategies for managing its preserves, including the Medano Zapata Ranch
- 29:15- The process of gathering Indigenous and local perspectives
- 32:00 – Strategies, tactics, and frameworks for building cross-cultural relationships
- 36:30 – Balancing the time it takes to build solid relationships with the reality that “time is of the essence”
- 40:30 – Upcoming exciting projects
- 44:30 – Resources for further learning
- 50:30 – Why they each chose to apply their talents, skills, and careers to the cause of conservation
- 55:30 – Heroes and mentors
- 1:05:00 – Favorite books
- 1:11:00 – Parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Celene Hawkins
- Izabella Ruffino
- Taylor Hawes episode
- A Win-Win-Win Solution for the Colorado River
- Jicarilla Apache Nation
- Strategic Water Reserve tool
- Medano Zapata Ranch
- Keystone Policy Center
- Voice, Choice, and Action Framework
- Water and Tribes Initiative
- Indian Country 101 training
- Whitener Group
- All My Relations podcast
- Inhabitants film
- Turtle Talk
- This Land podcast
- The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer
- Quincy Library Group
- Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
- Charles Wilkinson
- Sara Krakoff
- Ten Tribes Partnership
- Regina Lopez Whiteskunk
- Lorelei Cloud
- Colorado Water Conservation Board
- Return the National Parks to the Tribes by David Treuer
- Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollen
- This is Your Mind on Plants by Michael Pollen
- The Secret Network of Nature by Peter Wohlleben
- The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben
- An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz
- As Long as the Grass Grows by Dina Gilio-Whitaker
- Fresh Banana Leaves by Jessica Hernandez
- The Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey
- Doug Peacock
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Equitable Access to the Outdoors in Texas
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Shane Doyle – Reverence for the Past, Hope for the Future
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
Credit: Adam Amengual
Kristine Tompkins is an iconic conservationist, the president and co-founder of Tompkins Conservation, and the former CEO of Patagonia. For three decades, she has committed to protecting and restoring wild beauty and biodiversity by creating national parks, restoring wildlife, inspiring activism, and fostering economic vitality through conservation.
Kristine and her late husband Douglas Tompkins have protected approximately 14.8 million acres of parklands in Chile and Argentina through Tompkins Conservation and its partners, making them among the most successful national park-oriented philanthropists in history. To give you a frame of reference for exactly how much land 14.8 million acres is, Yellowstone National Park is just over 2.2 million acres– so the scale and scope of Tompkins Conservation’s impact is truly mind-blowing.
Kristine’s amazing life story was beautifully told in the 2023 feature-length documentary Wild Life, which I highly recommend and can be streamed on Disney+. She was also awarded the Carnegie Medal of Philanthropy, and she recently gave her second TED talk, which will be released in the coming weeks. She’s been featured by pretty much every media outlet you could imagine, so I was honored that she took time out of her very full schedule to chat with me.
Tompkins Conservation has published multiple books about its groundbreaking conservation work in South America. The most recent book is titled Patagonia National Park Chile, which tells the story of the park’s transformation from a former sheep ranch into one of the crown jewels of Chile’s National Park system. Featuring stunning photography by Linde Waidhofer and essays by Kristine, the former President of Chile Michelle Bachelet, Yvon Chouinard, and many others, the coffee-table style book is equal parts inspiring and educational. It’s the kind of book that you’d proudly display on your shelf and find yourself revisiting for years to come.
I met up with Kristine at her California home, and we had a fun and fascinating conversation about everything from the book to leadership to the growth and evolution of Tompkins Conservation. We discussed optimism and pessimism, the difference between contentment and happiness, the importance of having a relentless work ethic, living an extreme life, and operating as if you have nothing to lose. We also talked in detail about the challenges of creating Patagonia National Park, balancing rewilding efforts with the need for economic vitality, and how the conservation lessons learned in South America can be applied to conservation efforts here in the American West. There are even a few brief appearances by her two very sweet pups who sat with us during our conversation, so all of you dog lovers will surely enjoy hearing from them.
Patagonia National Park Chile is available right now at Patagonia.com and available for pre-order wherever you get your books. Follow the links in the episode notes to learn more.
A huge thank you to Kristine for inviting me into her home and being so gracious and generous with her time. And another huge thanks to the teams at Tompkins Conservation and Patagonia Books for the opportunity. Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy.
—
All photos courtesy of Patagonia. Header photo credit: Nicolas Piwonka; Headshot photo credit: Adam Amengual
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:40 – Why Kris keeps coming back to books
- 7:30 – Who is Arnie Næss
- 13:45 – Discussing leadership, giving credit, and other behaviors key to Kris’s success
- 18:40 – Happiness vs contentment
- 21:30 – Discussing Valle Chacabuco
- 25:45 – Establishing local buy-in as a conservation entity not local to Chile
- 30:30 – How the Tompkins managed livestock on the Valle Chacabuco
- 32:15 – The speed at which settlers spread to Chile
- 34:15 – Whether Kris is an optimist or pessimist
- 36:00 – Who in the new generation gives Kris hope, and what Kris thinks about “hope”
- 40:45 – Kris’s view on taking action
- 44:30 – How Kris prioritizes her efforts
- 49:45 – What Kris has learned in South America that is applicable to the North American West
- 52:15 – Business’s impact on Kris and Doug’s conservation work ethic
- 53:45 – Kris’s favorite failure and lessons learned
- 59:45 – Kris’s life of extremes and passion for service
- 1:05:45 – Kris’s book recommendations
- 1:15:45 – The land trust movement in the US, and the American grasslands
Information Referenced:
- Kristine Tompkins
- Tompkins Conservation
- Rewilding Chile
- Rewilding Argentina
- Douglas Tompkins
- Patagonia National Park
- Vincent Stanley
- The new book, Patagonia National Park
- Arne Næss
- Spinozism
- The Wolf in the Parlor by Jon Franklin
- Sigmund Kvaløy Setreng
- Yvon Chouinard
- Valle Chacabuco
- The Nature Conservancy
- Tierra del Fuego
- Doug Peacock
- Greta Thunberg
- Tapir
- Pete McBride
- Hampton Sides
- Endurance by Alfred Lansing
- James Baldwin
- Genghis Khan
- Napoleon Bonaparte
- The Sea People by Christina Thompson
- The Wager by David Grann
- Sir Francis Drake
- Strait of Magellan
- Douglas Brinkley
- Silent Spring Revolution by Douglas Brinkley
- James Prosek
- Carlos Fernandez
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagonia’s First Fifty Years
- Dylan Tomine – Protecting What He Loves
- Pete McBride, Part 2: In Search of Silence
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Logan Maxwell Hagege Returns – On Taking Action & Finding Balance
Photo credit: Dylan Gordon
Logan Maxwell Hagege is an Ojai, CA-based contemporary artist with modern visions of the American West. Logan is no stranger to longtime Mountain & Prairie listeners—he first joined me on the podcast back in 2019, and he made another appearance in 2022 alongside several other renowned Western artists in an episode recorded live at Maxwell Alexander Gallery’s 10th-anniversary exhibition. In this episode, I reconnected with Logan at his Ojai studio, and we caught up on a long list of fascinating topics, including his upcoming exhibition at the Gerald Peters Gallery in New York City titled Flowers Will Grow.
Since our first podcast conversation, Logan’s artistic career has continued to skyrocket, and his work has earned the acclaim of a growing number of collectors, critics, and journalists. Most recently, his painting titled “Time and Space” won Best in Show at the Autry’s Masters of the American West show. He’s also been featured in all corners of the Western art world, including a recent spread in Western Art and Architecture and collaborations with well-known brands such as Stetson and Pendleton. But perhaps most impressively, he’s accomplished all of this success while being a deeply committed husband and father of two young children.
As you’ll hear in this conversation, Logan works extremely hard and is fully committed to exploring new realms of his artistic interests, but he brings balance and calmness to what could easily become an all-consuming obsession. I caught Logan just as he was wrapping up all the final details for his upcoming show, and we had a fun discussion about a wide range of topics, including: The intensity of preparing for a show, accepting the judgment that comes with showing art, his practice of constant doodling, how living in Ojai has changed his approach, the importance of self-talk, Georgia O’Keefe, the idea that perfection is boring, the need for action, and much more. Check out the episode notes for a full list of topics discussed and links to everything.
And if you happen to be in New York, the Flowers Will Grow exhibition will open with a reception with Logan on Thursday evening, April 18, 2024, and will be on display through May 23rd.
A huge thanks to Logan for letting me barge into his studio during such a busy time and a huge thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!
All photos by Dylan Gordon
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:45 – What the hell is happening in Logan’s studio, and his upcoming show in New York
- 5:15 – Why Logan is working with a gallery outside of Maxwell Alexander
- 7:30 – Whether Logan was nervous the last time he showed his art in New York
- 9:00 – The impact of being able to show more examples of an artist’s work
- 11:15 – How periods of intensity and external pressure have shaped Logan’s work
- 12:45 – How Logan’s art has changed since his 2018 show
- 14:30 – What a Logan’s process looks like when there isn’t external pressure from deadlines
- 17:45 – Logan’s doodling process
- 19:45 – The need for action
- 23:30 – How Logan deals with the fact that unique art will be judged
- 27:45 – Discussing perfection and how boring it is
- 28:45 – Who Logan admires
- 31:15 – Discussing Georgia O’Keefe
- 32:45 – Discussing Logan’s life in Ojai
- 40:00 – The importance of retreat for Logan’s art
- 42:00 – The impact of self-talk
- 44:30 – Discussing the new gallery
- 47:45 – Logan’s book and artist recommendations
Information Referenced:
- Logan Maxwell Hagege
- Logan’s first M&P episode
- Live at Maxwell Alexander Gallery
- Hollyhocks
- Maxwell-Alexander Gallery
- Gerald Peters Gallery
- Briscoe Western Art Museum
- Prix de West
- Masters of the American West, Autry Museum
- Georgia O’Keeffe
- Glenn Dean
- Norman Rockwell
- Ojai, CA
- Rick Ridgeway
- Tribe by Sebastian Junger
- Jocko Willink
- David McCullough
- Tim Lawson
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Live at the Amon Carter Museum – In Conversation with James Prosek and Spencer Wigmore
- Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
- David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
- Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Chris Burkard, Part 2 – Seeking Beauty Through Adventure
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Dr. Emily Howe – The Interconnectedness of Mountains, Forests, Rivers, and Estuaries
Photo Credit: University of Washington’s Snow Project
Dr. Emily Howe is an aquatic ecologist with the Washington state chapter of The Nature Conservancy, and she holds a Ph.D. from the School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences at the University of Washington. Her work integrates across ecosystem boundaries, investigating how landscape configuration and management shape cross-boundary relationships for food webs, organisms, and ecosystem processes.
At the Nature Conservancy, Emily’s projects stretch from the high peaks of the North Cascades all the way down to the estuary of Port Susan Bay, and her work highlights the interconnectedness of everything from snowpack to salmon populations, forest management to marsh grass health. Much of Emily’s work focuses on understanding liminal spaces– areas in nature where boundaries blend together and where the interactions between ecosystems can be fluid and dynamic.
Since the earliest days of European settlement, this area has been subject to a wide variety of threats to the overall ecosystem—aggressive logging, wildfire suppression, attempts to engineer order into the ever-changing estuaries, and more. And with the intensification of climate change, snowfall and its resulting snowpack have decreased, which only exacerbates the negative effects and threats to the ecosystem.
But thanks to Emily and her team of stakeholders and partners, there are many, many reasons to be optimistic about the future. Combining cutting-edge science with Indigenous knowledge, Emily and TNC are making great progress toward finding solutions that can help with everything from increasing the depth and duration of snowpack in the Cascades to restoring all-important salmon habitat, and much much more.
If you’re a fan of ecology and are interested in how Indigenous wisdom can bolster our 21st-century scientific knowledge, then you’ll love this episode. We start our conversation at sea level, discussing the magic of the tidal ecosystems, then work our way up the into mountains, eventually discussing all things snowpack and forest health. We talk about TNC’s partnership with the Stilliguamish Tribe, how forest gaps can affect snowpack, snow droughts and El Nino, collaboration with federal agencies, and rising sea levels in the Northwest. Emily also talks about her career path to becoming a scientist and she offers up some excellent book recommendations.
I love the Pacific Northwest, so I greatly appreciate everything that Emily and her partners are doing to keep this region of the West so wild, special, and healthy. I hope you enjoy.
Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy and the University of Washington’s Snow Project.
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:45 – Discussing the history Port Susan Bay Preserve
- 8:15 – The colonial reasons for the “straightening out” of the complex Stille River System
- 11:15 – Why TNC became interested in Port Susan Bay
- 13:15 – Emily’s focus on the Port Susan Bay Preserve
- 17:15 – Emily’s partnership with Tribal entities around Port Susan Bay Preserve
- 21:45 – Where and how TNC partners with the federal government on its work on the coast
- 26:15 – Goals for the Port Susan Bay Preserve
- 32:30 – How fast the sea level is rising in the Port Susan Bay Preserve
- 34:15 – The 2015 Pacific Northwest snow drought
- 38:15 – Emily’s involvement in higher elevation forest management and how it can impact snowpack and water resources
- 45:00 – Putting Emily’s work above to practice
- 52:30 – Emily’s personal journey to this work
- 56:30 – Emily’s book recommendations
- 1:02:00 – Emily’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- TNC Washington
- Port Susan Bay Preserve
- Salish Sea
- Stillaguamish River
- Glacier Peak
- Diatoms
- Macoma
- Snoqualmie Tribe
- Tulalip Tribes
- Dr. Susan Dickerson-Lange
- Tapash Sustainable Forest Collaborative
- Yakama Nation
- Yakima, WA
- The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
- The Timber Wars
- Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
- Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
- Leah Palmer’s blog post
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Paige Lewis – Durable Conservation, Collective Action, and Strategic Thinking
- Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
- Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Cole Mannix – Building Community through Land Stewardship and Local Food
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Sterling Drake – Roots Music, Ranching, and Giving Back
Sterling Drake is an award-winning musician whose soulful tunes reflect his deep love of the landscapes, people, and culture of the American West. The media outlet Lonesome Highway probably best described Sterling’s music by calling it a “perfect fusion of western swing, honky-tonk heartache, and dance hall treasures.” But you can’t really confine Sterling’s music to a single, overarching category– his influences range from country to folk to blues [and more], and he’s toured everywhere from rural Montana to the swamps of South Florida to the music epicenter of Nashville, Tennesse. And it’s those wide-ranging experiences and influences that make him such a fascinating and thoughtful character and such a fun person to talk with.
Sterling’s family has roots in the southeastern U.S., and he was born and raised in Florida. Music was always a big part of his life, but his early interests revolved around the hardcore music scene and his love of drumming. Soon after graduating high school, he decided to head out west, where he began a long stretch of working on various ranches in several different states. Over time, his musical focus shifted from the hardcore world into the roots genre, and he began to capture the attention of audiences at bars, rodeos, and everywhere in between. Today, Sterling is a full-time touring musician, and as I record this, he is preparing for his first European tour. In my mind, Sterling is a perfect example of how a person can successfully meld passion, curiosity, hard work, and respect to create an entirely unique brand of art that resonates with a large, thoughtful audience.
I met Sterling last summer at the 2023 Old Salt Festival in Helmville, Montana, and I was instantly struck by his thoughtfulness, sense of humor, and his desire to contribute to the culture of the American West. So I was glad to finally connect with him for a podcast episode and have an in-depth conversation about his artistic journey. We started out talking about his upbringing in Florida and why he eventually decided to head west. We discuss his time working on ranches, lessons learned from living and working in Nashville, and why he continues to be drawn to Montana. We discuss his most recent EP titled Jereco Sessions, and why he decided to donate all of the proceeds of that project to the nonprofit Western Landowners Alliance. We also discuss Willie Nelson, books, martial arts, straight-edge culture, travel, and much, much more.
If you want to see Sterling perform in person and have a chance to hang out with him, I’d encourage you to come to this summer’s Old Salt Festival, which is taking place June 21-23 in Helmville, Montana. Both Sterling and I will be there, and we’re both looking forward to what is guaranteed to be an amazing weekend.
Thanks for listening, hope you enjoy!
Photos courtesy of Sterling Drake
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 5:00 – Sterling’s first memory of music
- 7:45 – Reflecting on Sterling’s childhood in Florida
- 11:00 – How Sterling became interested in the West, and further discussing Sterling’s upbringing
- 14:30 – Sterling’s time in Utah
- 17:30 – Where Sterling’s work ethic comes from
- 20:00 – How music played into Sterling’s early years out West
- 22:00 – A brief discussion of martial arts and its impact on Sterling’s life
- 25:45 – Sterling’s shift into country music
- 28:15 – When Sterling’s country career started to take off
- 33:15 – Sterling’s insider take on the Nashville music industry
- 40:45 – How Sterling became involved with WLA
- 44:15 – Discussing Sterling’s recent/upcoming album cover
- 45:15 – Sterling’s upcoming European tour
- 46:45 – Looking forward to Old Salt Festival
- 52:30 – Where Sterling may eventually choose to settle down
- 54:00 – Sterling’s advice to early career professionals and aspiring artists
- 1:00:30 – Sterling’s book recommendations
- 1:03:45 – Sterling’s parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Sterling Drake
- Old Salt Festival
- Western Landowners Alliance
- Beau Alexander and Logan Maxwell Hagege
- Cole Mannix
- Lesli Allison
- Jess Mudgett
- Chris Burkard
- Kaleo
- Bob Marshall Wilderness
- Ovando, MT
- Helmville, MT
- Nick Offerman
- It’s a Long Story by Willie Nelson
- The Lost Cowboy by J.B. Zielke
- Dusty Vaquero YouTube Channel
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
- Amber Smith – Creating Connection & Community
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Nickolas Butler – The Craft of Creativity
- Rick Wittenbraker – Humility, Generosity, and Building One-of-a-Kind Brands
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Kevin Krasnow – Keeping Jackson Hole Wild and Beautiful
Kevin Krasnow is the Conservation Director at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance, a long-standing, highly effective organization whose mission is to “protect the wildlife, wild places, and community character of Jackson Hole.” For more than four decades, the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance has been a staunch advocate for keeping Jackson Hole wild and beautiful, and it has proven to be a nimble and creative protector of the legendary Wyoming valley. The organization has served as a watchdog against poorly planned development, a champion for public land, a community voice that holds elected officials accountable, and much more.
Kevin brings a fascinating and diverse professional background to his work at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance– he’s worked as an Outward Bound instructor, a high school teacher, a college professor, and, most notably, he earned a Ph.D. in Environmental Science, Policy, and Management from the University of California Berkley. Prior to joining the team at the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance, he worked for ten years at the Teton Science Schools in Jackson. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Kevin is a high-level expert in forest and wildfire ecology, and he speaks eloquently about the role of wildfires in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and beyond.
When I first headed out West from North Carolina nearly twenty years ago, I moved to Jackson Hole— and I will always have a tender spot in my heart for that particular area. So I was thrilled to have the opportunity to connect with Kevin and talk about all things related to ecology, wildlife, fire, and conversation in Jackson Hole. We started with a deep dive into Aspen trees, and why they are such an important and unique part of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. We discussed the Yellowstone Fire of 1988 and how that disaster shaped forest management in the future. We discussed the unprecedented development pressure in and around Jackson, how Kevin and his organization collaborate with a wide range of conservation partners, his professional journey from indirect to direct conservation work, and how his career as an educator informs his work today.
If you’ve ever spent time in the Tetons, Yellowstone, or the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, then you’re going to learn a lot from Kevin. Please check out the notes below for a full list of everything we discuss, and I hope you enjoy!
Header photo courtesy of TNC: “Reflective Waters on Jackson Lake.” © Andrew Underwood; Headshot courtesy of Kevin Krasnow
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Discussing Aspen trees and how they captured Kevin’s attention
- 9:30 – Threats to Aspen populations
- 13:30 – Looking at the Yellowstone Fire of 1988
- 24:00 – How significantly forestry and attitudes toward fire have changed after the Yellowstone Fire of 1988
- 28:30 – What brought Kevin to the Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance
- 31:00 – Whether or not COVID has impacted the urgency of JHCA’s work
- 35:15 – What specific problems Kevin works on at JHCA
- 39:15 – How Kevin and JHCA have collaborated with The Nature Conservancy
- 43:00 – Kevin’s switch from “indirect” conservation to “direct”
- 45:00 – When the outdoors became a part of Kevin’s life
- 47:15 – Kevin’s early career in experiential education, and how it benefits his career now
- 52:30 – Kevin’s words for a young person looking for career advice
- 55:00 – Kevin’s book recommendations
- 58:15 – Kevin’s parting words of wisdom, and how folks can support JHCA
Information Referenced:
- Kevin Krasnow
- Pando Aspen Stand
- Pine beetle
- Yellowstone fires of 1988
- Ponderosa Pine
- The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
- Fire Weather by John Vaillant
- John Vaillant
- Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance
- The Nature Conservancy, Idaho
- The Nature Conservancy, Wyoming
- Teton Area Wildfire Protection Coalition
- Outward Bound
- Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
- When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
- Christian Beckwith, Part 2 – The Fascinating History of the 10th Mountain Division
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
- 50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
