Paul Hendricks – The Conservation Alliance and the Future of Public Lands
Paul Hendricks is the Executive Director of The Conservation Alliance, a coalition of more than 270 businesses working together to protect wild places across North America. Founded nearly four decades ago by Patagonia, REI, The North Face, and Kelty, The Conservation Alliance has grown into one of the most important forces in conservation—pooling dollars, influence, and a collective business voice to support grassroots campaigns that keep public lands and waters healthy for generations to come. At a time when those places are under constant pressure, The Conservation Alliance is showing that businesses don’t have to sit on the sidelines—they can be a powerful part of the solution.
Paul’s own path to this role winds through some of the most interesting corners of the conservation and environmental worlds. After earning a few advanced degrees, he started at Global Greengrants Fund, working with grassroots activists around the globe. He then joined Patagonia’s legendary environmental team, where he learned firsthand how a company can weave values into every decision. From there, he helped build sustainability programs at Rivian, tackling the climate footprint of a car company from the inside. And woven through all of that is a through-line of humility, service, and adventure.
In this conversation, Paul and I talk about the roots of his love for the outdoors, the mentors and lessons that shaped his career, and what it’s like to step into the hot seat as a first-time executive director. We dig into The Conservation Alliance’s mission and why business advocacy matters, the current threats facing public lands, and how Paul stays grounded in turbulent times. We also talk about family, leadership, failure, and why hope is not just possible but necessary. It’s a candid, thoughtful conversation with someone who’s not only shaping the future of conservation, but doing it with humility, persistence, and just enough humor to keep it human.
I’ve had the privilege of knowing Paul for almost 15 years–we met when he first moved to Colorado, became running and climbing partners, and have logged more hours together in the mountains and had more meaningful conversations than I can count. Watching him grow into this role has been inspiring, both for the positions he’s held and for the way he’s carried himself along the way.
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Photos courtesy of Paul Hendricks
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:37 – Intro, Ed’s one running partner
- 4:03 – How the outdoors has shaped Paul’s career
- 6:48 – Plan post-college
- 12:41 – Sunk-cost fallacy
- 14:22 – Global Greengrants Fund
- 17:05 – Learning from Rick Ridgeway
- 20:23 – Lessons from Patagonia
- 24:25 – Ready for a new challenge
- 30:00 – Laid off at Rivian
- 36:02 – Being in charge
- 38:01 – The Conservation Alliance history
- 43:07 – TCA within public lands threats
- 48:58 – What’s missing from the public lands story?
- 51:49 – Paul’s role as a leader
- 56:14 – Role models
- 59:04 – Getting outdoors now
- 1:01:10 – Book recs
- 1:03:09 – 1% for the Planet collab
- 1:05:14 – Wrapping up
Information Referenced:
- Paul Hendricks
- The Conservation Alliance
- Alpinist magazine
- Sierra Trading Post magazine, originally with hand-drawn images for the items for sale.
- Backpacker magazine (The Outside version)
- Various books by Yvon Chouinard
- Global Greengrants Fund
- Rick Ridgeway on M&P
- Nick Saban (college football) on process over product
- Stoicism
- Vincent Stanley on M&P
- Rivian’s climate commitments
- Think Again
- Adam Cramer on M&P
- Protecting America’s Outdoors
- Roadless Rule changes
- Colorado College’s public lands sentiment poll, “State of the Rockies”
- Jocko Willink’s podcast, former Navy SEAL
- Extreme Ownership
- Book recs: Live Lived Wild, Leaders Eat Last, American Wolf
- 1% for the Planet M&P episode
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kate Williams – Leadership Lessons from the CEO of 1% for the Planet
- Adam Cramer – Fighting for the Future of Public Lands
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Sonnie Trotter – On Flow, Family, and the Long Game
- Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagonia’s First Fifty Years
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Kate Williams – Leadership Lessons from the CEO of 1% for the Planet
Kate Williams is the CEO of 1% for the Planet, the global nonprofit that has turned a simple idea into a worldwide force for good: businesses committing 1% of their annual revenue to environmental causes. If you’ve ever spotted that little 1% for the Planet logo on a favorite brand, you’ve seen Kate’s work in action– under her leadership, the organization has grown to more than 4,400 members across more than 110 countries, certifying nearly a billion dollars in giving to date.
Kate’s path to this work is anything but conventional, though looking back, it all makes perfect sense. A NOLS course at age 18 opened up new horizons for Kate and gave her a crash course in leadership, responsibility, and the joy of working hard alongside passionate people with a shared purpose. That experience led her into outdoor education, then to leading the Northern Forest Canoe Trail, and eventually to 1% for the Planet. Along the way, she’s stayed grounded in service, humility, and a knack for seeing challenges as opportunities to grow.
In this conversation, Kate and I dig into her personal journey and the philosophy that drives her leadership. We talk about the growth of 1% for the Planet, the credibility it brings to a crowded sustainability space, and why she believes real leadership is built in “small, consistent, humble moments.” We also get into her outdoor roots, her parents’ influence, the importance of curiosity, and her belief that no matter where you are in life, “the journey continues.” It’s a wide-ranging, generous conversation with someone who’s helping to reshape how businesses and individuals show up for the planet. Enjoy!
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Photos courtesy of Kate Williams
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:00 – Intro, sharing NOLS love
- 5:11 – How NOLS shaped Kate as a leader
- 9:49 – Rescue in the wilderness
- 14:28 – Back to real life
- 19:01 – Post-college plan
- 21:06 – The black abyss
- 23:03 – Why business school?
- 27:04 – Northern Forest Canoe Trail
- 32:39 – Path to 1% for the Planet
- 37:21 – Person of action
- 39:47 – 1%’s impact
- 42:19 – Acceleration
- 45:46 – Marketing impacts
- 48:17 – Nonprofits and businesses
- 51:22 – 1% + The Conservation Alliance
- 54:21 – Leaders Kate admires
- 59:01 – Book recs
- 1:03:24 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- Kate Williams
- 1% for the Planet
- NOLS
- High Country News
- Northern Forest Canoe Trail
- Trust for Public Land
- The Conservation Alliance
- Brands for Public Lands
- Book recs: Good to Great, Scaling Up, Bird by Bird, The Lighteaters
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Brady Robinson Returns – Grassroots Conservation on a Global Scale
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
- Sonnie Trotter – On Flow, Family, and the Long Game
- Vincent Stanley – Lessons Learned from Patagonia’s First Fifty Years
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Nicholas Triolo – What the Circuitous Path Reveals
Nicholas Triolo is a writer, endurance athlete, and educator whose life and work sit at the crossroads of ecology, activism, and storytelling. For years he’s been exploring what happens when we stop charging toward the summit and start paying attention to the circuitous paths that wind around it. His new book, The Way Around: A Field Guide to Going Nowhere, is the culmination of that exploration — a lyrical, wide-ranging meditation on movement, place, and the art of staying present.
In the book, Nick traces a series of pilgrimages: circling a sacred mountain in Tibet, exploring a culturally significant northern California hiking tradition, and walking the rim of one of Montana’s most infamous superfund sites. Each journey reveals something deeper — about endurance and restraint, about intimacy with landscapes and with ourselves, and about the courage to face environmental and cultural shadows without turning away. The book weaves together memoir, travel writing, and ecological inquiry, and in doing so, it asks us to reconsider how we measure meaning: not by miles logged or summits bagged, but by the depth of our attention and the generosity of our presence.
In this conversation, Nick and I dig into the ideas behind the book — the practice of circumambulation, the pitfalls of “summit fever,” and the possibility of finding beauty even in places scarred by extraction. We also talk about the creative process: how to find your authentic voice in a world full of (good and bad) influences, how to write with both intimacy and respect, and how stories can become tools for resilience and re-enchantment.
If you’ve ever sensed that the most interesting part of a long run, a wilderness trip, or a creative endeavor is what happens beneath the surface, this is a conversation for you. Nick has a gift for showing us how going “nowhere” can sometimes bring us closer to where we most need to be.
Check out the episode notes for links to everything. Hope you enjoy!
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Header photo courtesy of UTMB Thailand, headshot by Rio Chantel.
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:22 – Intro, when does curiosity become a book?
- 10:14 – Summits versus processes
- 12:31 – Western States
- 18:34 – Structure of Nick’s book
- 24:55 – In each round
- 28:32 – Butte, America
- 32:47 – Instruction manual for thinking clearly
- 35:09 – Nick reads from Widening Circles
- 38:01 – Putting so much personal out there
- 45:26 – Finding Nick’s voice (and Ed’s)
- 48:59 – Trusting curiosity
- 53:44 – Catering to the audience
- 56:04 – Finding the niche that needs you
- 59:44 – The Jasmine Dialogues
- 1:05:06 – Meeting your heroes
- 1:11:46 – Just do you
- 1:14:19 – Book recs
- 1:19:47 – Last thoughts
Information Referenced:
- Nick Triolo
- Nick’s book, The Way Around
- Western States Endurance Run
- Nick helped Death Cab For Cutie’s Ben Gibbard prep for Western States.
- Berkeley Pit in Butte, Montana
- Tribe, Freedom, Sebastian Junger books
- Holy the Firm by Annie Dillard
- Some circumambulation history, starting with the Mount Tamalpais tradition
- Mountains and Rivers Without End by Gary Snyder
- The Richest Hill, podcast about Butte’s history
- Pema Chödrön, Buddhist monk
- Rattlesnake Wilderness
- Widening Circles
- ”The canon”: Rob McFarland, Natalie Diaz
- Nick’s profile on Gregory Gourdet for Outside RUN
- David James Duncan
- Côa River rewilding project
- Nick’s piece in Emergence magazine on the Côa River
- Freeflow Institute
- The Jasmine Dialogues, Nick’s Substack
- Joe Grant on M&P
- The Mandorla Project, an offshoot of Nick’s Substack with a post specifically about meeting your heroes.
- Nick Offerman on M&P
- Orion magazine
- Book recs (otherwise known as burning house books): Paul Kingsnorth’s Against The Machine, Natalie Diaz’s Postcolonial Love Poem, Holy the Firm, Layli Long Soldier, Marilynne Robinson’s Gilead, In The Eye of the Wild by Nastassja Martin, Power by Linda Hogan and a variety of Robert MacFarlane books including Is A River Alive, Underland and The Old Ways
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Brendan Leonard Returns – On Writing, Teaching, and Staying Weird
- David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Helen Rebanks – “The Farmer’s Wife” – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Chris Dombrowski, Part 2 – “The River You Touch”
- Peter Stark – Tales of Adventure, Exploration, & Epic Battles
- James Prosek – Art, Philosophy, & Our Natural World
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Mark Easter – Food, Soil, and Our Planet’s Future
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Kelly Beevers – Connection, Collaboration, Conservation
Kelly Beevers is the Grazing Lands Partner Strategy Lead with The Nature Conservancy, where she helps guide collaborative efforts to support ranchers, strengthen communities, and conserve some of the most threatened ecosystems in North America. Based in Montana, Kelly has built her career at the intersection of real estate, land stewardship, and community-driven conservation—first working in commercial real estate, then private equity and consulting, before finding her home at TNC. Today, she leads TNC’s work that champions rancher-led, peer-to-peer learning and innovation by strengthening, connecting, and activating all varieties of rancher networks.
In this conversation, Kelly and I talk about her unlikely journey from Texas A&M finance classrooms to Montana ranch kitchen tables, and how those experiences shaped her approach to building authentic partnerships. We dig into the power of peer-to-peer rancher networks, why local knowledge and community leadership are essential for durable conservation, and how initiatives like Women in Ranching are reshaping the future of stewardship. Along the way, Kelly shares lessons from her career pivots, stories of on-the-ground innovation, and the hope she draws from the people she works with every day. She also offers a ton of excellent book recommendations, so be sure the check out the episode notes for links to everything.
Kelly brings a rare mix of technical expertise, strategic vision, and deep human connection to her work, and I’ve had the privilege of calling her a friend for many years. It’s been a joy to watch her career evolve, and I know listeners will take away both inspiration and practical insight from this conversation. Enjoy!
Header photo by Emmie Sperandeo, photo with pups by Thewmatt Photography
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:50 – Intro, Kelly’s early real estate history
- 6:39 – Next steps after real estate
- 9:23 – What drew Kelly to the West
- 14:30 – Specializing in listening
- 19:49 – From a company of one to a national nonprofit
- 24:41 – Kelly’s role at TNC
- 28:33 – Figuring out focus
- 36:23 – “All it took”
- 44:11 – How Kelly’s work fits into the broader TNC picture
- 54:35 – Women in Ranching
- 1:00:11 – Earning hope
- 1:05:58 – Book recs
- 1:10:42 – Wrapping up
Information Referenced:
- Kelly Beevers
- TNC Regenerative Grazing Lands, primarily focused on the Great Plains and the Western United States.
- North America’s grazing lands — including grasslands, shrublands and prairies — have been disappearing at an alarming rate. What remains is at risk from land conversion, extreme weather events and habitat loss, among other threats. The Nature Conservancy is working with producers, collaboratives, companies and government agencies to implement large-scale solutions to conserve these iconic lands and enhance the lives of the people who depend on them.
- TNC’s 2030 Goal: Increase the pace and impact of grazing land conservation. TNC is working to restore, improve and protect the ecological and economic condition of 240 million acres of grazing lands, which can influence how most of the 750 million acres of U.S. grazing lands are managed.
- The 240 million acres goal incorporates goals of other teams and work TNC is doing as well. Work is made up of principal (TNC in charge — lands, easements, projects delivering on public lands, etc.), direct (TNC in leading or having direct impact on direction of collaborative project) and indirect (TNC influencing or having a hand, but not in charge).
- TNC helps to shape policy to support regenerative grazing within the Farm Bill and public land management, creates supply chain incentives that support implementing regenerative practices and champions peer-to-peer networks, like Ranchers Leading Change.
- M&P Matt Cahill and the sagebrush sea episode
- M&P Matt Moorhead and Galen Guerrero-Murphy episode
- M&P Amber Smith episode
- Kris Tompkins on M&P
- Ed’s Good News newsletter for when you need some extra hope.
- What’s giving Kelly hope: rancher-led collaboratives, Department of Defense interest in agriculture, and the current administration forcing conversations within TNC to tell a more comprehensive story (ecology + economy + community).
- Women in Ranching
- Working Lands Collaborative in Wyoming
- Rancher-led collaboratives like the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance
- A revolving loan fund that raised $80,000 to loan to businesses in Winnett, Montana, population 500.
- Book recs: The Heart of Tracking by Richard Vacha, Never Whistle At Night: An Indigenous Dark Fiction Anthology, The Serviceberry, Becoming Animal by David Abram
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
- Matt Moorhead & Galen Guerrero-Murphy – Grasslands Conservation on the Southern High Plains
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Live from SXSW – Farmer-Founded Brands Will Save American Fashion
- Sean Claffey – A Resilient Vision for Sagebrush Country
- Helen Rebanks – “The Farmer’s Wife” – Live at the Old Salt Festival
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Cole Mannix & Andrew Anderson – The Hard Work of Building a Better Food System
This episode was recorded live on stage at the 2025 Old Salt Festival in Helmville, Montana, where I had the honor of sitting down with two of the people at the center of this ambitious experiment in food, land, and community: Cole Mannix who is the President and co-founder of the Old Salt Co-op and Andrew Anderson who is the manager of the J Bar L Ranch.
If you’ve been following Old Salt, you know it’s much more than a beef company. It’s a bold attempt to rethink how ranching families, local communities, restaurants, and consumers can work together to create a food system that’s resilient, regenerative, and deeply rooted in place. What strikes me most about Cole, Andrew, and the Old Salt team is just how hard they are working to make this vision a reality. They’re juggling ranching, processing, restaurants, and festivals—businesses that are notoriously difficult on their own—and somehow doing it all with an open spirit of generosity, collaboration, and humility.
In this conversation, we dig into the early days of Old Salt, the failures and lessons that shaped it, and the risks of scaling up in an industry designed to squeeze out small producers. We talk about why they chose to take the harder road of building restaurants and hosting a one-of-a-kind festival, how they measure success beyond the spreadsheet, and why they believe community is as important a product as the beef itself.
Even if you don’t work in food or ranching, the lessons here resonate for anyone trying to build a purpose-driven business. We cover everything from balancing mission and margins, to leading with vulnerability, to learning how to grow without losing sight of your values.
Cole and Andrew are quick to admit they don’t have it all figured out, but their candor, persistence, and vision make this a conversation I know you’ll find as inspiring as I did. Enjoy!
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Header photo by Ed, headshots courtesy of Old Salt
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 0:00 – Intro, spirit of generosity
- 3:38 – Starting at the beginning of Old Salt with Cole
- 6:51 – Getting to know Andrew with J Bar L
- 10:18 – Ranching families coming together
- 14:51 – Lessons learned
- 19:29 – Getting to the festival, controversies
- 24:37 – Measuring success
- 29:20 – Realities of meat processing
- 34:47 – Restaurant business
- 38:49 – What we need to know (empower producers!)
- 42:11 – Start of audience Q&A, snack sticks
- 44:14 – Q: How did you forge this path?
- 47:26 – Q: If not the festival, what would the community touch points be?
- 49:42 – Q: Succession planning
- 54:41 – Wrapping up and thank yous
Information Referenced:
- Old Salt Co-op
- Cole Mannix
- Mannix Family Beef
- Andrew Anderson
- J Bar L Ranch
- Old Salt Festival
- The Good Food Store in Missoula, Montana was an early Old Salt seller. Here’s where else you can get their products.
- Meat processing complications during covid-19, High Country News article
- Yellowstone Grassfed Beef
- Andrew Mace, with roots in the Seeley-Swan and Helena, Montana areas, is the chef behind Old Salt, who also has restaurants that were nominated in Portland’s top 10.
- The Union, an Old Salt restaurant, was nominated for a James Beard award in 2025 for best new restaurant.
- The Blackfoot Challenge
- Hyperlocal coverage of the Old Salt Festival from the Seeley Swan Pathfinder
- Helmville’s Copper Queen Bar, a local institution.
- Old Salt Outpost in Helena, Montana, the original Old Salt Co-op restaurant with burgers and beef tallow fries.
- Groundswell regenerative agriculture festival in the U.K.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
- Helen Rebanks – “The Farmer’s Wife” – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Brady Robinson Returns – Grassroots Conservation on a Global Scale
Brady Robinson is a lifelong climber, conservationist, and educator who currently serves as Director of Philanthropy for the Freyja Foundation. His career has spanned outdoor education, nonprofit leadership, and global conservation philanthropy, with past roles including Executive Director of both the Access Fund and the Conservation Alliance. These days, his work focuses on supporting high-impact land and water conservation efforts across South America, with a particular emphasis on Chilean Patagonia.
Brady and I go way back—he was my NOLS instructor in the fall of 1999, on a course that involved big mountains, a few navigational hiccups, and some life-long leadership lessons. That semester planted the seeds for much of what I’ve done professionally and personally—including starting this podcast—and Brady’s been a friend and mentor for going on 26 years. He was also one of the very first guests on this podcast in 2016, back when I had only one microphone and really didn’t know how to work it.
When Brady and I last spoke on the podcast, he was leading the Access Fund, and a lot has happened since then. In this conversation, we catch up on his career and dig into everything he’s working on now. We start out discussing our NOLS experience, Brady’s leadership in forming the Outdoor Alliance (alongside recent podcast guest Adam Cramer), his work on passing major climbing legislation, and the lessons he’s learned about collaboration, trust, and long-game thinking. We spend the second half of the conversation digging into his current work in Patagonia’s Cochamó Valley—a spectacular and at-risk landscape in southern Chile that Brady and his colleagues are working to protect through an ambitious multi-partner campaign. It’s a story of nimble, grassroots conservation work, smart philanthropy, and what’s possible when people align around a shared purpose.
If you’ve enjoyed my conversations with Kris Tompkins or Adam Cramer, then I know you’ll enjoy this one as well. Big thanks to Brady for his decades of support and mentorship—and another big thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!
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Header photo by Jimmy Chin, headshot by Susannah Allen
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:27 – Intro and how Ed and Brady met in 1999
- 9:06 – Access Fund
- 14:59 – Building a top-notch board
- 18:12 – Alignment
- 23:42 – Leaders Brady admires
- 30:07 – Getting to Patagonia
- 35:33 – Working with Kris Tompkins
- 40:57 – Main Freyja Foundation goals
- 43:48 – The Cochamó Valley
- 49:55 – Real estate rough
- 56:52 – The cool kids’ table
- 1:00:41 – All about the one-on-one
- 1:02:52 – Book recs
Information Referenced:
- Brady Robinson
- Freyja Foundation
- Brady’s first M&P episode
- NOLS rock climbing
- Outward Bound
- Access Fund
- The Explore Act and the Park Act were advocated for by the Access Fund. The Park Act officially designated the use of fixed anchors in wilderness.
- Adam Cramer M&P episode
- Outdoor Alliance
- Surfriders
- American Hiking Society
- American Alpine Club
- Outdoor Alliance timeline
- Stripping the public lands sale out of the “Big Beautiful Bill” coverage from Montana’s Flathead Beacon.
- Armando Menocal
- Charles Wilkinson
- Good to Great and Good to Great and the Social Sectors
- M&P Kris Tomkins episode
- Rewilding Argentina and Rewilding Chile
- Patagonia Park Argentina
- The Cochamó Valley
- Sapiens illustrated series
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Sonnie Trotter – On Flow, Family, and the Long Game
- Adam Cramer – Fighting for the Future of Public Lands
- Cassidy Randall – The Untold Story of Denali’s First All-Women’s Ascent
- George Hodgin Returns – On Risk-Taking, Leadership, and the Future of Cannabis
- Scott Hulet: Reading + Writing + Surfing + Fishing + Traveling
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Colorado River Day 2025 – Essential Books and Conversations
In honor of Colorado River Day 2025, I pulled together a stack of books and past Mountain & Prairie podcast episodes that dig into the Colorado River Basin. Some zoom in on the river itself; others take a wider look at the environmental, agricultural, historical, and cultural forces shaping the basin as a whole.
The whole point of Mountain & Prairie is to make these complex Western issues accessible, understandable, and—dare I say—fun. So think of this as a mini-library for better grasping the Colorado River’s outsized influence on everything west of the 100th meridian.
BOOKS
Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey
The Secret Knowledge of Water by Craig Childs
Losing Eden by Sara Dant
The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko
A Walk in the Park by Kevin Fedarko
Downriver by Heather Hansman
Encounters with the Archdruid by John McPhee
The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim by Pete McBride
The Colorado River: Chasing Water by Pete McBride
Where the Water Goes by David Owen
Life After Dead Pool by Zac Podmore
Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner
Brave the Wild River by Melissa L. Sevigny
This America of Ours by Nate Schweber
Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner
These are just a few of the books that either I have read or come highly recommended by podcast guests. If I missed any of your favorites, send me a message and I’ll add them in!
PODCASTS
Header photo by Ed.
Celene Hawkins and Taylor Hawes – Navigating the Next Era of the Colorado River
Celene Hawkins is the new Colorado River Program Director for The Nature Conservancy, stepping into the role after years of impactful work in tribal water policy and place-based conservation across the basin. She’s taking the baton from Taylor Hawes, who led the program for nearly 17 years and is now serving as the Colorado River Program’s Special Advisor. It’s a leadership transition at a critical moment for the Colorado River, and in this episode, I was lucky to sit down with both of them in person to talk through the handoff—what’s changing, what’s staying the same, and what the future of the river might look like.
This is both Celene and Taylor’s second time on the podcast, and we cover a lot of ground. We talk about the ongoing negotiations over new operating guidelines for the river—what’s on the table, why the stakes are so high, and what happens if the basin states can’t come to an agreement. We dig into tribal involvement—how things are (slowly) changing after decades of exclusion, and why stronger tribal participation is essential to any long-term solutions. We also explore how conservation groups are bringing new ideas, resources, and partnerships to the table, from modeling future scenarios to piloting creative water-sharing and resilience strategies across the West.
And beyond the policy, we talk about what it actually takes to lead in a time of uncertainty—how to stay grounded, keep teams motivated, and maintain momentum when the challenges feel overwhelming. As always, Taylor and Celene bring a clear-eyed sense of purpose and a refreshing mix of realism and optimism to the conversation.
We’re releasing this episode just ahead of Colorado River Day, which falls on July 25th. So if you care about the West, public lands, rivers, or just want to better understand one of the most important water and conservation challenges in North America, this is a great place to start.
Thanks for listening, I hope you enjoy!
Photos courtesy of TNC, header photo © Eloise Kendy
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:02 – Intro, Taylor’s career shift
- 7:27 – Celene’s journey into Taylor’s old role
- 9:07 – What Taylor’s proud of
- 13:16 – Celene’s pitch for the job
- 15:21 – Exciting initiatives
- 17:18 – Overview of the Colorado River Basin negotiations
- 22:42 – Sticking points
- 23:54 – Finding the Indigenous voice
- 28:38 – Alternatives
- 31:37 – Work outside of negotiations
- 37:07 – Federal funding freeze impacts
- 39:04 – Effects of uncertainty
- 40:57 – Not getting bogged down
- 44:49 – What Celene’s learned from Taylor
- 46:28 – And how Taylor thinks Celene is well-positioned
- 47:22 – Book recs
- 51:37 – Wrapping up
Information Referenced:
- Taylor’s first M&P episode
- Celene’s first M&P episode
- TNC’s Colorado River Program
- Announcement of Celene’s new role as Director
- Jicarilla Apache Nation and Tribal water within the Colorado River Basin
- Maybell Diversion Project
- Pete McBride’s The Colorado River
- Colorado River Basin coverage: Inside Climate News, The Colorado Sun
- Endurance, By Alfred Lansing, about Ernest Shackleton
- Book recs: A Wrinkle In Time, Refuge, My Side of the Mountain, Hatchet, The Ministry for the Future, Braiding Sweetgrass
- Terry Tempest Williams NYT op-ed on public lands
- David Gessner M&P episode
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
- Adam Cramer – Fighting for the Future of Public Lands
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Helen Rebanks – “The Farmer’s Wife” – Live at the Old Salt Festival
This conversation with Helen Rebanks was recorded live and on stage at the 2025 Old Salt Festival, held on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. If you were there, you know how special the moment was. If you weren’t—well, I’m glad you’re here now. Even though we were on a stage, in front of a crowd, the conversation had the quiet, reflective feel of two friends talking over a kitchen table—fitting, given how much of Helen’s story centers around that most sacred of domestic spaces.
Helen is the author of The Farmer’s Wife: My Life in Days, a beautiful and deeply grounded book about food, family, work, and the often invisible labor that holds it all together. In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about the joys and struggles of farm life, raising kids, writing honestly without self-pity, and why the kitchen table might just be the most important place in the world. Helen shares stories from her own life and reads a few powerful passages from the book—including one that could double as the Old Salt manifesto.
A huge thank you to Cole Mannix, the Mannix family, and the Old Salt crew for making this event—and this conversation—possible. It’s not every day that a bestselling British author makes the trek to a working ranch in western Montana, but Helen did just that, along with her husband James and two of their four children, Molly and Tom. I’m so happy they made the journey, and I came away deeply grateful for the time we shared and the conversations we had.
Whether you’re a rancher, parent, reader, cook, or just someone trying to live a life of purpose and connection, Helen’s story has something for you. So give it a listen—and if you haven’t already, pick up a copy of The Farmer’s Wife. You’ll be glad you did.
Check out the episode notes for links to everything and thanks so much for listening.
—
Header photo by Imogen Whitely
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:00 – Introducing Helen
- 4:04 – Helen reads from The Farmer’s Wife
- 6:49 – Structuring the book
- 9:46 – Real work
- 12:26 – Helen reads again, connecting to Old Salt
- 17:00 – Shiny individuals and self-autonomy
- 18:55 – Empathy and compassion
- 25:23 – Parenting advice from Helen
- 27:35 – Helen’s take on Montana
- 31:03 – Staying positive within the chaos
- 33:14 – Mums can change the world
- 36:23 – Beginning of audience Q&A
- 37:24 – Q: Did Helen ever regret her choices?
- 40:26 – Q: How do we get young people into this lifestyle?
- 44:10 – Helen and Wendell Berry
- 45:00 – Book recs (just read memoirs!)
- 46:39 – What would Helen tell her young self?
- 48:32 – Helen’s favorite recipes from the book
- 50:54 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- The Farmer’s Wife: My Life in Days
- Old Salt Festival
- James Rebanks
- Succession planning for ranches
- No one can multitask.
- Wendell Berry’s Port William series.
- This One Wild and Precious Life
- Mary Oliver
- Producer’s memoir rec: Animal, Vegetable, Miracle.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Janie & Louise Roberson – Chatting It Up With Their Old Man
- Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Brendan Leonard Returns – On Writing, Teaching, and Staying Weird
Brendan Leonard is back for his third appearance on the podcast—this time recorded in person at his house in Missoula. Brendan’s the creative mind behind Semi-Rad, and over the years, he’s become a good friend and one of my most trusted advisors when it comes to creativity and building a life around the things you care about. He’s a writer, illustrator, filmmaker, ultrarunner, teacher, and all-around creative machine—someone who’s carved out a career by doing things his own way, with a healthy dose of humor and generosity.
This episode is pretty much two friends sitting at a kitchen table having a laid-back chat about our long list of shared interests. We talk about everything from teaching writing and designing online courses, to the pros and cons of Substack, to how to market your work without feeling like a sellout. We dig into the practical side of creativity—how to make things, share them, and make a living—without losing the joy and weirdness that made you want to create in the first place.
We also get into self-publishing vs. traditional publishing, why Brendan makes funny books like 15-Second Recipes, and why he believes that generosity, self-deprecation, and consistency matter more than flash or perfection. There’s a lot here for anyone trying to make meaningful things in the margins of a busy life… or build a creative life from the ground up.
If you’re new to Brendan’s work, be sure to check out his website, newsletter, and his earlier podcast episodes. I’d also specifically encourage you to check out his most recent book Ultra-Something, his recent film The Seven Summits of My Neighborhood, and the podcast he co-hosts, which is called The Trailhead.
Brendan is one of the most thoughtful, practical, and humble voices out there when it comes to creative work, and I’m always better off after talking to him. Hope you enjoy.
—
All photos courtesy of Brendan Leonard
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:11 – Brendan blowing out the speakers
- 3:47 – How Brendan got into teaching and early days at Freeflow
- 8:06 – Brendan’s teachers
- 11:09 – The Feynman technique
- 14:10 – Substack versus a website
- 17:54 – The necessity of marketing yourself
- 20:53 – Keeping the voice
- 25:00 – Moving Brendan’s writing course online
- 27:23 – Keeping it low-key
- 29:40 – Abundance vs. scarcity mentality
- 33:56 – Publisher vs. self-publishing
- 38:39 – Nickels and dimes of self-publishing
- 42:31 – Talking Seven Summits of My Neighborhood
- 50:23 – Digging into the niches
- 51:55 – Curing the male loneliness epidemic
- 55:44 – Helping people with humor
- 58:43 – Treating others with respect
- 1:00:07 – Book recs
Information Referenced:
- Brendan Leonard
- Freeflow Institute
- University of Montana J-School
- Dirtbag Diaries podcast
- The Feynman technique
- Ryan Holiday’s Perennial Seller
- What To Do When It’s Your Turn
- 15 Second Recipes by Brendan
- The New American Road Trip Mixtape by Brendan
- Sixty Meters to Anywhere by Brendan
- Ultra-Something by Brendan
- The Seven Summits of My Neighborhood, a classic.
- Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wilderness
- Book recs: The Dad Rock That Made Me A Woman, Penguin Classics box set of really short stories (or at least one of them.)
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Dr. Alan Townsend – Generosity & Curiosity in the Face of Tragedy
- Joe Schobert – From NFL Pro Bowler to Western Conservation Advocate
- Scott Hulet: Reading + Writing + Surfing + Fishing + Traveling
- George Hodgin Returns – On Risk-Taking, Leadership, and the Future of Cannabis
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Sean Claffey – A Resilient Vision for Sagebrush Country
Sean Claffey is the Southwest Montana Sagebrush Conservation Coordinator at the Nature Conservancy, a role that places him at the center of one of the West’s most overlooked but critically important ecosystems: the sagebrush steppe. Based in Dillon, Montana, Sean works across public and private lands to protect and restore this sprawling, foundational landscape that serves as habitat for countless species, supports rural economies, and connects the region’s valleys and mountain ranges. Through his leadership in the Southwest Montana Sagebrush Partnership—a collaborative effort uniting agencies, landowners, and nonprofits—Sean helps ensure that the health of this “land in between” doesn’t fall through the cracks.
In this conversation, Sean and I dig into the complex threats facing sagebrush country, from invasive grasses and wildfire to conifer encroachment and land conversion. We talk about how fire suppression and ecological shifts have allowed evergreens like Douglas fir and juniper to overtake sagebrush, and how Sean’s team is using a mix of prescribed burns, manual thinning, and innovative partnerships with local mills to restore balance to the landscape. He also shares how they’re engaging young people in hands-on restoration work, creating pathways for rural youth to connect with the land and gain meaningful employment.
Sean brings a unique blend of scientific insight, community-mindedness, and boots-on-the-ground experience to this work, and he’s quick to credit the collaborative culture of southwest Montana for making so much progress possible. From low-tech wet meadow restoration to building a more resilient restoration economy, this is a hopeful, grounded conversation about how conservation can succeed when it centers people, place, and purpose.
If you’re a new listeners and want to go deeper on this subject, I’d encourage you to go back and listen to my earlier episode with Matt Cahill who gives an excellent crash course on the Sagebrush Sea and the epsiode with Austin Rempel and Nancy Smith, who dig deep into riparian restoration in Montana.
But for this episode, be sure the check out the webpage and episode notes for some excellent videos about Sean’s work and links to everything we discuss. Thanks for listening.
Photos courtesy of Sean Claffey
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:26 – Intro and Ed’s love of Dillon
- 4:14 – The Sagebrush Sea
- 7:19 – Pressures on the sea
- 9:42 – Conifer expansion, the main reason for grassland reduction
- 12:00 – Ecological, environmental, economical
- 17:52 – Working with the timber industry
- 21:59 – Southwest Montana Sagebrush Partnership, not just another NGO
- 26:41 – Sean’s first priorities with SW MT Sagebrush
- 30:11 – The way the water should flow
- 34:47 – Youth programming
- 40:53 – Cheatgrass, an actual cheater
- 43:47 – Containing cheatgrass
- 45:01 – Cheatgrass and fire
- 47:02 – Working with private landowners
- 52:58 – Connecting with the community
- 58:21 – A little more about Sean
- 1:01:10 – Career advice for people who want to make the world a better place
- 1:03:54 – Book recs and life recs
Information Referenced:
- Sean Claffey
- Matt Cahill M&P episode
- The Sagebrush Sea, the connective tissue between mountain ranges and valley bottoms.
- Working with a shutdown lumber mill in Dillon to support TNC conservation work.
- Bill Zeedyk, letting the water do the work.
- Nancy Smith and Austin Rempel M&P episode
- Youth Employment Program
- Conifer expansion
- Youth Corps
- Tribe by Sebastian Junger
- Rx fire, recent imagery
- Biomass utilization
- Wet meadow restoration
- Southwest Montana Sagebrush Partnership
- The River Why, David James Duncan
- David James Duncan M&P episode
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Adam Cramer – Fighting for the Future of Public Lands
- Chris Pague – Stories, Science, and the Southern High Plains
- Nancy Smith & Austin Rempel – A Surprisingly Simple, Effective, and Scalable Approach to Riparian Restoration
- Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
- Curt Meine – Aldo Leopold’s Life, Work, and Enduring Legacy
- The Partnership of Rangeland Trusts – 20 Years of Cooperation, Collaboration, and Conservation
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Adam Cramer – Fighting for the Future of Public Lands
Adam Cramer is the CEO of the Outdoor Alliance, a coalition that brings together human-powered outdoor recreation groups to protect public lands and waters. With a deep understanding of both policy and recreation, Adam has helped position the Outdoor Alliance as a powerful voice in the national conservation movement—bridging the gap between grassroots outdoor communities and high-level decision-making in Washington, DC.
Before launching into public lands advocacy, Adam spent years working as an attorney in DC. But outside the office, his life was centered on outdoor adventure—he started as a skateboarder, then became a climber, and eventually a whitewater kayaker. A chance encounter in a river parking area led to his first pro bono conservation case, and that spark ultimately evolved into his full-time vocation. Adam’s story is a testament to the idea that if you care deeply about a place, there’s a way to use your unique skills to help protect it.
In this conversation, we talked about the origins of the Outdoor Alliance, Adam’s evolution from attorney to coalition-builder, and why generosity—not dominance—is his guiding principle for leadership. We discussed why civic engagement matters more than ever, how outdoor recreation can build bipartisan bridges, and why showing up—even when it feels small—can make a real difference.
It’s worth noting that we recorded this conversation in early June 2025, just as a wave of new legislation and political turbulence was rolling across the public lands landscape. Since then, things have continued to change rapidly. If you care about the future of outdoor recreation and conservation in this country, I highly recommend signing up for the Outdoor Alliance’s newsletter or following them on social media to stay informed and involved.
Again, a big thanks to the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation for introducing me to Adam and another big thanks to Patagonia Denver for generously letting us use their community room to record this conversation. Enjoy!
—
Photos courtesy of Adam Cramer and the Outdoor Alliance
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.
To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.
Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.
To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:05 – Intro (with a jiu jitsu connection)
- 6:45 – Law school, then what?
- 8:01 – The individuality of skateboarding
- 10:38 – Billdering
- 11:45 – Beginning of kayaking and the end of a relationship
- 13:40 – A type of code switching
- 16:26 – Giving back to the places
- 23:03 – How Outdoor Alliance came together
- 27:51 – Sticking points
- 30:46 – Attorney mindset to strategy point-person
- 33:13 – Leadership inspiration
- 37:24 – A generous mindset
- 42:49 – Who’s pro selling off public lands?
- 45:21 – Guidepost goals
- 49:04 – The reason Adam got on the plane to Colorado, where he’s talking with Ed
- 48:14 – Why you should engage with your elected officials
- 58:30 – Evidence the world doesn’t totally suck
- 59:43 – Optimistic?
- 1:03:40 – How to get involved
- 1:05:06 – Book recs
Information Referenced:
- Adam Cramer
- Outdoor Alliance
- Outdoor Alliance – TAKE ACTION
- Sign up for Outdoor Alliance Action Alerts
- The latest from the Outdoor Alliance (as of 6.16.25)
- Outdoor Alliance on Instagram
- American Whitewater, a law firm that started the path of Adam’s giving back to a place.
- Upper Yough, what Adam decided to fight for. Background from American Whitewater.
- William Guerry, Adam’s former boss, who encouraged his early conservation advocacy.
- FLIPMA, federal law that, in essence, says the federal estate should remain intact.
- Advocacy Days exist for many different organizations. Here’s info on one for the Land Trust Alliance.
- Public Lands in Public Hands Act
- Book recs: The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin; Ezra Klein’s Abundance
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Sonnie Trotter – On Flow, Family, and the Long Game
- Aaron Citron: Crafting Conservation Policy in a Changing West
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Tony Bynum – Showing Up for the Land
Tony Bynum is a conservation photographer, scientist, and advocate who’s spent decades working at the intersection of public lands, Indigenous rights, and environmental storytelling. Based in Montana, his images have helped shape national conversations around energy development, landscape protection, and the cultural importance of the Northern Rockies. His work has been published widely and used by countless conservation organizations to make the case for protecting wild places.
Before photography became his profession, Tony spent many years working for the Yakama Nation as a senior scientist, eventually landing in Washington, D.C., where he helped shape tribal environmental policy at the highest levels of government. But his path was never linear. A born-and-bred Westerner, he’s been a cowboy, a fly fishing guide, a federal program manager, and a backcountry wanderer. His guiding principle—“Don’t just love something, do something for it”—has carried him through an unconventional but deeply impactful career.
In this episode, Tony tells us about his winding path and the values that have guided him along the way. We dig into his time in D.C., his decision to walk away from a conventional career, and the beginnings of his conservation photography—especially his long-running effort to document proposed energy development on the Blackfeet Reservation and the edge of Glacier National Park. As you’ll hear, I stepped back a little bit in the conversation and let Tony tell his story in his own words, and the result is a thoughtful and unfiltered look at what it means to live a life rooted in land and responsibility.
Thanks so much for listening, hope you enjoy!
—
All photos by Tony Bynum
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:02 – Intro, where Tony grew up
- 6:21 – Cue, photography in the early days
- 9:15 – Just doing interesting things
- 13:13 – Indigenous and Western takes on science
- 18:35 – Family dynamics
- 21:24 – Where the work ethic came from
- 23:14 – Where Tony didn’t tread
- 25:48 – Cue, bureaucracy
- 31:07 – Lessons from the copy room
- 36:17 – Tony’s purpose in DC
- 39:01 – And why he had to leave
- 40:41 – Restarting in Montana
- 42:46 – Full-time photography
- 47:07 – A diverse portfolio
- 50:16 – Film to digital and internet access
- 56:05 – Finding conservation
- 58:18 – Energy development near Glacier and the Blackfeet Indian Reservation
- 1:02:52 – The importance of having a visual context
- 1:04:04 – Describing the oil and gas map
- 1:09:51 – Book recs
- 1:18:04 – Final words
Information Referenced:
- Tony Bynum
- Cosmos, Carl Sagan
- A Short History of Nearly Everything
- Podcast episode on the Badger Two-Medicine conversation
- NYT coverage of Tony’s oil and gas boom map focused on east Glacier
- Book recs: Crossing the Next Meridian, This America of Ours, The Rise of the American Conservation Movement
- Spoiler alert about an upcoming new Hal Herring book!
- Cadillac Desert
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Rusty Bell & Justin Loyka – Economics, Energy, and Community Pride
- Helen Augare Carlson & Dylan DesRosier – Land, Language, and Stewardship in the Blackfeet Nation
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
- Nichole Barger – Science as a Catalyst for Human Connection
- Mark Easter – Food, Soil, and Our Planet’s Future
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Jackie Miller and Carlos Fernández – A Breakthrough Moment for Colorado Conservation
Jackie Miller is the Executive Director of Great Outdoors Colorado (GOCO), and Carlos Fernández is the Colorado State Director for The Nature Conservancy. Both are highly respected leaders in Colorado’s conservation community, and they’ve played pivotal roles in shaping the state’s approach to protecting land, water, wildlife, and outdoor access. While Carlos has joined me on the podcast several times before, this is Jackie’s first appearance, and I was honored to have them both on to discuss one of the most significant conservation developments in recent memory.
Just a few weeks ago, the State of Colorado announced the launch of its Outdoors Strategy—a comprehensive, collaborative roadmap designed to align the state’s conservation, outdoor recreation, and climate resilience efforts for decades to come. Developed through years of planning, dialogue, and consensus-building across hundreds of organizations and communities, the Strategy addresses some of the most pressing challenges facing Colorado’s landscapes and communities. It’s not just a plan—it’s a shared vision backed by actionable goals, clear metrics, and powerful tools for implementation at the local and statewide levels.
In this wide-ranging conversation, we discuss the origin of Colorado’s Outdoors Strategy, the urgency behind its creation, and the unique collaborative process that brought it to life. Jackie shares how GOCO’s long-standing community partnerships and flexible funding model positioned the organization to lead at a statewide scale, while Carlos explains how the Strategy dovetails with The Nature Conservancy’s science-based goals and priorities. We also explore the Strategy’s “North Star” goals, the innovative Resource Hub that supports on-the-ground action, and the importance of regional implementation and tribal engagement. It’s a timely, inspiring look at how Colorado is setting a national standard for coordinated, community-driven conservation.
Photos courtesy of TNC and GOCO
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:03 – Intros, Carlos then Jackie
- 5:09 – Explaining Great Outdoors Colorado
- 8:51 – How Jackie got to GOCO
- 11:37 – Carlos on GOCO
- 15:29 – Challenges and opportunities that led to Colorado’s Outdoors Strategy
- 19:04 – Opportunities that the Strategy will address
- 21:33 – Jackie’s executive summary
- 27:01 – How the Strategy aligns with TNC’s other goals
- 29:59 – North stars and measuring success
- 33:22 – The TNC tools Carlos is excited about
- 36:34 – Creating urgency to execute a plan
- 40:14 – Face-to-face
- 42:51 – Carlos’s thoughts on execution
- 45:49 – How the plan affects the layperson
- 47:25 – What did we miss? First Jackie
- 51:29 – Then Carlos
- 53:31 – Book recs
- 57:42 – Wrap up words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Jackie Miller
- Carlos Fernandez
- Colorado’s Outdoors Strategy
- Colorado’s Outdoors Strategy Video
- Book recs: Prodigal Summer, Abundance, A Walk in the Park, American Wolf
- Quote that Carlos shared in the wrap-up.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
- Chris Pague – Stories, Science, and the Southern High Plains
- Nichole Barger – Science as a Catalyst for Human Connection
- Ivan McClellan Returns – From Behind the Lens to Center of the Arena
- Kevin Grange – The Secret Lives of Grizzlies
- Nick Mott – A Masterclass in Nuanced Storytelling
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Sonnie Trotter – On Flow, Family, and the Long Game
Sonnie Trotter is a world-renowned rock climber, father, husband, writer, and the author of the new book Uplifted: The Evolution of a Climbing Life. For the past three decades, Sonnie has built a career as one of the most accomplished climbers of his generation— pushing standards, putting up first ascents, and bringing a sense of creativity, humility, and grit to every project he tackles. His new book, Uplifted, is part memoir, part meditation on movement and meaning, and it’s one of the most thoughtful and grounded climbing books I’ve read in a long time.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Sonnie and I talk about the unexpected ways writing has shaped his life, how his approach to climbing has evolved over the years, and what it’s been like to move from living out of a van to raising a family in the mountains of Canada. We also discuss how he’s stayed grounded throughout his career, his relationship with sponsors like Patagonia, and why gratitude—not rage or ego—has been the driving force behind his decades of commitment to climbing.
Sonnie also opens up about how parenting has shifted his perspective on adventure, freedom, and ambition—and how he and his wife are raising their kids in a way that emphasizes curiosity, effort, and joy. Whether you’re a climber, a writer, a parent, or just someone trying to live a meaningful life, there’s a ton of wisdom in this one.
Sonnie’s new book Uplifted is out now, and I highly recommend picking up a copy—you’ll find a link in the episode notes, along with links to everything else we discussed. Hope you enjoy both this conversation and the book. Thanks for listening.
—
Photos courtesy of Patagonia: Header by Ben Moon, Family shot by Sonnie Trotter
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 1:55 – Intro, how Sonnie got into writing
- 4:58 – Influences
- 8:30 – Why write this book now
- 12:40 – Stumbling into the climbing world
- 17:45 – Into the unknown
- 20:27 – Origins of drive
- 25:07 – Climbing’s darkness
- 27:11 – The road to Patagonia
- 32:23 – Parent perspectives
- 36:54 – Becoming a parent
- 42:35 – Getting kids active (a jiu jitsu segway)
- 48:13 – Training, nutrition, and getting older
- 52:47 – Race to 9A
- 56:31 – Book recs
- 59:29 – Final words of wisdom — get back to work
Information Referenced:
- Sonnie Trotter
- Uplifted: The Evolution of a Climbing Life by Sonnie Trotter
- Sonnie’s writing influences including John Long, Lynn Hill and Matt Samet.
- Race to 9A, an accountability challenge for some of America’s top climbers as they age.
- My Side of the Mountain, a Sonnie and Ed top-shelf pick.
- Sonnie’s top three reading recommendations: The Power of One, The Old Man and the Sea and My Side of the Mountain from above.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Joe Schobert – From NFL Pro Bowler to Western Conservation Advocate
- George Hodgin Returns – On Risk-Taking, Leadership, and the Future of Cannabis
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
- Chris Burkard, Part 2 – Seeking Beauty Through Adventure
- Jesse Griffiths – Humility, Curiosity, and Creative Cuisine
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Cassidy Randall – The Untold Story of Denali’s First All-Women’s Ascent
Cassidy Randall is a journalist and author whose work explores the intersections of adventure, history, and the natural world. Her new book, Thirty Below: The Harrowing and Heroic Story of the First All-Women’s Ascent of Denali, tells the gripping true story of six women who, in 1970, became the first all-female team to summit North America’s tallest mountain. It’s a meticulously researched, beautifully written account that brings long-overlooked voices to the forefront of mountaineering history.
As someone with a deep personal interest in Denali, I was especially excited to read this book and speak with Cassidy. In our conversation, we talk not only about the origins of Thirty Below and the individual women at the heart of the story, but also about Cassidy’s career as a journalist— how she got started, the path she’s carved through the world of longform storytelling, and how she approaches writing with such clarity, depth, and purpose. She also shares insights into her research process, the challenge of shaping complex narratives, and the broader importance of telling stories that have too often been overlooked or dismissed.
Whether or not you’ve ever set foot on a glacier, Thirty Below offers a deep dive into universal themes— resilience, purpose, and the human desire to explore. It’s a story about ambition and endurance, but also about complexity, contradiction, and the ways women have long carved space for themselves in places that often excluded them. Cassidy brings these histories to life with nuance and empathy, honoring the individuality of each woman while raising timeless questions about legacy, belonging, and what drives us to push beyond our limits.
Thanks to Cassidy for writing the book and for taking the time to chat. I hope you enjoy.
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Photos courtesy of Cassidy Randall
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RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:06 – Intro, how did Cassidy get into Denali?
- 8:28 – Getting to know Grace
- 13:08 – Landscape of women in climbing
- 18:16 – Margaret and her journey with multiple sclerosis
- 22:39 – Why do people climb mountains?
- 25:38 – Grace at 88, any discontent?
- 28:08 – Ed on his experience climbing Denali
- 31:02 – The process of climbing
- 37:39 – Adventure for the sake of adventure
- 42:23 – Writing advice on structure
- 45:41 – Source change
- 47:07 – Book writing compared with magazine work
- 50:36 – Early creativity threads
- 53:28 – Shifts in the writing industry
- 55:24 – What is journalism’s role anymore?
- 1:00:17 – It’s alive! (The content we’re consuming.)
- 1:01:19 – Denali or McKinley?
- 1:04:37 – Writer recs
- 1:08:03 – Pro tips on being a writer
- 1:10:17 – Wrapping it up
Information Referenced:
- Cassidy Randall
- Cassidy’s Substack: The Wilder Path
- Thirty Below: The Harrowing and Heroic Story of the First All-Women’s Ascent of Denali
- Two books that do Denali justice, according to Ed. Club Denali by Jon Krakauer (from Eiger Dreams) and then Cassidy’s book above.
- The 50th anniversary celebration of the first all-women climb up Denali from the NPS that Cassidy’s agent sent her asking, “Is this a story?”
- Grace Hoeman, one of the protagonists of Thirty Below
- The Denali Damsels
- The Wilcox expedition, the deadliest Denali expedition with winds up top estimated at 300 mph. (Not a typo, Cassidy says.)
- Wild by Cheryl Strayed
- Classic outdoor adventure books: The Wager and Into Thin Air
- Letter to Outside by writers wanting off the masthead.
- Jessica Yellin’s News Not Noise, journalist on Substack and Instagram that Cassidy loves.
- Writer recs: John Branch at the New York Times, Kevin Fedarko and the Emerald Mile, Caroline Van Hemert and The Sun Is A Compass, Tom Robbins, Kevin Barry and The Heart in Winter, Maggie Shipstead
- John Branch on M&P
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Hampton Sides Returns: The Wild and Tragic Tale of Captain James Cook
- Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Scott Hulet: Reading + Writing + Surfing + Fishing + Traveling
- Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Sara Domek – The Science and Story of Wyoming’s Wildlife Migration
Sara Domek is Wyoming’s Migration Program Director for The Nature Conservancy. Sara grew up in the small town of Kemmerer and later moved to Pinedale, giving her a rare, firsthand perspective on Wyoming’s working landscapes— both from a natural resources and a conservation standpoint. Her upbringing, paired with years of experience working in nonprofits, agencies, and boots-on-the-ground conservation, makes her uniquely suited to lead TNC’s efforts to protect Wyoming’s world-renowned wildlife migrations.
If you’ve spent any time driving through Wyoming, you’ve probably cruised past some of the most important migration corridors in North America—maybe without even realizing it. Sara and her team are working to keep those landscapes permeable, helping mule deer, pronghorn, elk, and other species continue the seasonal journeys they’ve been making for thousands of years. We talk about the science behind migration, how seemingly small barriers like fences can create big challenges for wildlife, and how collaborative conservation— between landowners, agencies, and nonprofits— can create real, lasting wins.
Sara also shares some fascinating details about Wyoming’s longest mule deer migration, the importance of building trust with local communities, why cheatgrass is a bigger villain than it looks, and how carefully designed wildlife crossings can benefit both animals and people. We also get into her favorite books, why she’s hopeful about the future, and, once again, the simple but powerful idea that success in conservation often comes down to strong relationships.
This is a thoughtful and inspiring conversation with someone who truly embodies the spirit of collaborative, community-driven conservation. I hope you enjoy!
Header photo courtesy of TNC and by Scott Copeland, headshot by Sara Domek
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:50 – Intro, growing up in Wyoming, and valuing natural resources
- 6:09 – Pinedale and the Wind Rivers
- 7:15 – Plan after high school
- 10:37 – Finding TNC
- 14:16 – Sara describes her job
- 17:21 – Mule deer and pronghorn migration corridors
- 21:57 – Fencing and migration
- 26:25 – Getting the word out about fencing
- 29:27 – Migration primer: distance, predators, and collisions
- 35:54 – Valley of the warm winds
- 42:37 – RCPP programs
- 45:27 – Cheatgrass 101
- 48:54 – Important partners
- 51:08 – Prioritizing projects
- 54:40 – What Sara’s looking forward to
- 57:57 – Where to learn more
- 1:00:22 – Book recs
- 1:03:04 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- Rusty Bell and Justin Loyka on M&P talking about the coal industry
- Youth Conservation Corps NPS program
- National Bighorn Sheep Center in Dubois, Wyoming
- Wyoming Migration Initiative
- Red Desert to Hoback mule deer migration, the world’s longest mule deer migration
- Wild Migrations: Atlas of Wyoming’s Ungulates
- Dubois = the Valley of the Warm Winds. Though Ed and Sara don’t tend to always agree with the “warm” part.
- Big Game Partnership, which supports migration work in Wyoming, Idaho and Montana
- Some of Justin Loyka’s work on blending migration with industry in a way that’s safer for migrating ungulates.
- Sublette County Conservation District, which focuses on wildlife-friendly fence work
- Wyoming Sagebrush Sea’s native plants work related to maintaining habitat for wildlife, including traveling ungulates
- Yellowstone migration photos by Joe Riis
- TNC’s “Impacts of Roadways on Wildlife” report from 2022, a general overview
- Wyoming’s Department of Transportation animal collision cost estimates. Human fatality costs for collisions with moose is over $13,000.
- WY Game and Fish Department migration information
- Wyldlife Fund and Greater Yellowstone Coalition and the Dubois crossings project
- A series on wildlife crossings in Montana
- Absaroka Fence Initiative
- An example of an RCPP program application. And this is just the how-to.
- Cheatgrass
- TNC and the University of Wyoming’s fencing prioritization tool
- Book recs: The Solace of Open Spaces, Ordinary Wolves
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
- Emilene Ostlind – Storytelling for the New West
- Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
- Chris Pague – Stories, Science, and the Southern High Plains
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Cody Wellema – After the Fire, Before What’s Next
(photo by Farhad Samari)
Cody Wellema is a master hatmaker and the founder of Wellema Hat Co., a highly regarded, California-based custom hat business. For over a decade, Cody built a reputation as one of the country’s premier craftspeople in the art of traditional hatmaking, creating heirloom-quality hats by hand, using vintage tools and techniques that harken back to a slower, more intentional era. His work has been worn by artists, ranchers, musicians, and everyday folks alike, and his shop became not only a destination for finely made hats, but a gathering place rooted in community and craft.
On January 8th of this year, Cody and his family lost their Altadena storefront and workspace in the Eaton Canyon Fire, one of the many devastating fires that destroyed a large part of the greater Los Angeles area in early 2025. In the aftermath, he has navigated an overwhelming combination of grief, logistics, and uncertainty—yet throughout it all, he has maintained a sense of gratitude, humility, and forward-looking optimism that is as rare as it is inspiring. As he puts it, the fire forced a kind of reset—one that, while painful, has given him a blank page and the opportunity to reimagine the next chapter of his creative life.
In this conversation, we talk about Cody’s early entrepreneurial spirit, his deep appreciation for vintage craftsmanship, and how he taught himself the trade by deconstructing old hats and learning from the past. We also explore the role of presence in parenting, the importance of community, and the creative possibilities that can emerge when the old path is unexpectedly cleared. Cody’s story is one of resilience, creativity, and deep care– for people, for his craft, and for doing things the right way.
I was so inspired by Cody’s optimism and gratitude, and I know you will be too. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discussed, including a GoFundMe page that was set up to support Cody and his family during this unexpected time of chaos.
Thanks for listening, I hope you enjoy!
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Photos by Farhad Samari
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Intro, how’s Cody doing?
- 7:04 – His default wiring is optimism
- 8:49 – Setting an example for the kids
- 10:52 – Roots
- 12:41 – Cody’s evolution
- 17:33 – Heading out on his own
- 19:31 – Getting to hats
- 25:50 – Taking apart old hats
- 28:33 – Monetization
- 30:59 – Hindsight and going all in
- 34:41 – The fear of diving in
- 38:33 – Time to define
- 41:14 – More than just hats
- 46:29 – Blessing in the bad
- 51:59 – Moving on
- 56:00 – Cody’s first time voicing his new idea
- 1:04:59 – Taking the compliments
- 1:08:56 – Figuring out a blank slate
- 1:13:00 – Inspiration recs
- 1:18:16 – Final words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Wellema Hat Co
- GoFundMe for the Wellemas
- Cody on Instagram
- NY Times article about Wellema Hat Co. and the Eaton Fire
- Cool video about Cody
- Teal Blake, rancher and creator. One of Cody’s hat-making inspirations.
- Havstad Hat Company
- Duckworth, born in Montana.
- M&P episode with woodworker Geoffrey Keating
- Cody’s profiles of other hat makers.
- Cody’s reading recs: Lonesome Dove series, William Boyd, Rick Rubin’s The Creative Act, Picasso’s War.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Logan Maxwell Hagege Returns – On Taking Action & Finding Balance
- Beau Alexander – Paying Homage to the Past, While Focusing on the Future
- Christy Sing Robertson – On Grit, Hard Work, & Going All In
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Jenna Pollard – Timber Framing, Organic Farming, Community, and Purpose
- Ivan McClellan Returns – From Behind the Lens to Center of the Arena
- Jesse Griffiths – Humility, Curiosity, and Creative Cuisine
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Live from SXSW – Farmer-Founded Brands Will Save American Fashion
This is a special live episode recorded this past March at SXSW in Austin, Texas, and it features a conversation I had the honor of moderating with two powerhouse guests: Cate Havstad-Casad of Range Revolution and Daniel Mouw of Duckworth.
The title of the panel was Farmer-Founded Brands Will Save American Fashion. At first glance, that might sound like a bold claim, but these two are actually doing the work to make it real. Cate is a designer, hatmaker, and regenerative rancher whose company Range Revolution is turning discarded cattle hides into regenerative high-end leather goods. Daniel is the president of Duckworth, a Montana-based wool company that’s rebuilding the American supply chain– one sheep, sweater, and ranch at a time.
Together, we dug into some big questions: What happened to American-made textiles? Why are most of us walking around wearing plastic? And what would it look like to rebuild rural economies from the ground up, using natural fibers like leather and wool, raised and processed responsibly, here in the United States? It might sound like we’re talking fashion and manufacturing trends—but this is really a conversation about values, ecosystems, and the future of rural America.
Cate and Daniel are funny, deeply thoughtful, and grounded in the realities of both agriculture and business. They bring hard-earned optimism to a conversation that too often gets bogged down in doom and gloom. And they make a compelling case for why fashion can be a vehicle for stewardship, beauty, and connection to the land. We also had a sharp, engaged audience that asked some truly insightful questions– you’ll hear a few of those toward the end.
Thanks to Cate and Daniel for the amazing conversation, thanks to SXSW for inviting us, and thank you for listening.
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:10 – Introductions
- 6:35 – A history lesson in US fiber production
- 10:22 – Current supply chain challenges facing producers
- 16:17 – Why natural fibers are superior to synthetics
- 19:17 – The true cost of synthetics and fast fashion
- 23:17 – How Range Revolution and Duckworth are restoring economic power to ag producers
- 27:36 – The unique role of for-profit businesses in solving these challenges
- 33:13 – Positivity as a strategic business decision
- 37:09 – How do you scale this regenerative fashion movement?
- 40:32 – Embracing natural characteristics in design
- 42:06 – How to capture attention in today’s information age
- 46:13 – What would an ideal community support system look like?
- 50:26 – Fabric frequencies!
- 52:53 – How to convert standard retail buyers into regenerative buyers
- 56:40 – Any collaboration with the EU fashion industry?
Information Referenced:
- SXSW
- Range Revolution
- Casad Family Farms
- Duckworth
- Maverick Ski Hill
- Woolrich
- American Flannel: How a Band of Entrepreneurs Are Bringing the Art and Business of Making Clothes Back Home by Steven Kurutz
- Externalities
- Women in Ranching
- Veja shoes
- American Wool Council
- Jenessa Leone
- Fibershed
- Another Tomorrow
- Shop Zero
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Cate Havstad-Casad, Part 2 – Building Businesses for the Greater Good
- George Hodgin Returns – On Risk-Taking, Leadership, and the Future of Cannabis
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Kelsey Molloy & Angel DeVries – Fortifying Grasslands and Communities on the Northern Great Plains
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
- Ivan McClellan Returns – From Behind the Lens to Center of the Arena
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
(by Miguel DeLeon, 2020)
Elliot Ross is a photographer and writer whose work focuses on the intersection of landscape, identity, and justice in the American West. His images have appeared in Time, National Geographic, and The New York Times, and he’s known for deeply researched, long-term projects that combine striking visual storytelling with a journalist’s rigor. Whether he’s documenting water access on the Navajo Nation or tracing the contours of Glen Canyon as it reemerges, Elliot brings a rare mix of artistry, empathy, and precision to every assignment.
Born in Taiwan and raised on the eastern plains of Colorado, Elliot grew up between cultures and landscapes—an experience that shaped both his worldview and his creative path. He picked up a camera early, inspired by his grandmother’s family albums, and later earned a full-ride to the Savannah College of Art and Design. After college, he cut his teeth in New York City, assisting some of the most high-profile portrait and fashion photographers in the industry. All the while, he was quietly dreaming about building a career on his own terms—one rooted in storytelling, purpose, and the landscapes he still called home.
In this episode, we talk about the early experiences that shaped his artistic voice, the evolution of his career, and how he’s learned to navigate the demands of both commercial and documentary work. Elliot shares the backstory of his recent Time magazine cover story on water equity in the West, a project that involved years of reporting, deep community ties, and even a return to the classroom. We also discuss his thoughts on creative endurance, working across political divides, and the role of photography in fostering empathy and connection.
I’d encourage you to visit Elliot’s website and dig deeper into all of his work, especially his project A Question of Balance, which became the Time magazine feature. You can find links to everything in the episode notes. Thanks to Elliot for the inspiring and timely conversation, and thank you for listening.
Photos courtesy of Elliot: Header by Max Lowe, headshot by Miguel DeLeon
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
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Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.
To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.
Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.
To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:05 – Elliot growing up in Taipei and how his parents met
- 6:00 – Few but vivid memories of Taipei
- 7:09 – The culture shock of moving to eastern Colorado
- 8:25 – How photography came into Elliot’s life
- 10:29 – Reading influences
- 13:16 – Travel bug
- 16:22 – Savannah College of Art and Design
- 18:07 – The Asian parents pressure
- 19:49 – Credit to high school art teachers
- 20:54 – Figuring out photography
- 27:47 – No wavering
- 29:54 – Moving into independent business
- 33:29 – Pitching Carhartt
- 37:03 – Nat Geo ups and downs
- 42:10 – Near-death experiences
- 45:44 – Approaching long-term projects
- 49:35 – Pulling on threads
- 51:45 – Humans and landscapes
- 56:35 – Curiosity as the most authentic de-escalator
- 58:05 – Writing and shooting and doing it all
- 1:02:45 – Response to the Time story
- 1:07:35 – A tale of two places
- 1:13:45 – Using water in the West
- 1:16:35 – The Desiderata creed
- 1:17:05 – Book recs
- 1:23:05 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- Elliot Ross
- Time Magazine piece
- My Side of the Mountain by Jean Craighead George
- Robert Adams, American West photographer
- The “new topographics” movement. Elliot defines it as a revisionist way of looking at landscape. Instead of beauty and splendor, there’s more analysis of the changes that humans brought upon a place.
- Annie Leibovitz, a portrait photographer Elliot interned for.
- Mark Seliger, Elliot was his Second Assistant.
- Philip-Lorca diCorcia, a portrait photographer Elliot didn’t intern for, but stalked until he said no.
- Martin Schoeller, another portrait photographer Elliot worked for.
- Elliot’s The Reckoning Days
- Robert Clark, Nat Geo features photographer
- American Backyard, Elliot’s examination of the U.S./Mexico border
- An interview with Elliot about his experience talking with John Ladd, amongst other things, in Deseret News.
- E.W. Scripps environmental reporting fellowships and internships
- A Question of Balance, another project of Elliot’s
- Elliot’s Geography of Hope Exhibition
- The Glen Canyon Institute
- The Desiderata, Elliot’s daily creed.
- Book recs: John Steinbeck’s East of Eden and Grapes of Wrath; Cormac McCarthy’s (when Elliot’s feeling dark) Blood Meridian and All The Pretty Horses: Border Trilogy 1; Craig Childs’ The Secret Knowledge of Water and House of Rain
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Mike DeHoff – Exploring the Colorado River’s Reemerging Rapids
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Mauricia Baca – An Empathetic Approach to Nevada’s Conservation Challenges
- Joe Schobert – From NFL Pro Bowler to Western Conservation Advocate
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Aaron Citron: Crafting Conservation Policy in a Changing West
Aaron Citron is the Associate Director of External Affairs at The Nature Conservancy, where he leads state-level policy engagement across Colorado. His work spans a wide array of conservation priorities, including water management, healthy forests, renewable energy siting, and partnerships with private landowners and tribal nations. Aaron plays a key role in bridging on-the-ground conservation efforts with the legislative and regulatory frameworks that support them. He also helps shape TNC’s strategy around climate and energy policy, working to ensure a rapid but responsible transition to renewable infrastructure.
Aaron grew up in Tucson, Arizona, where early exposure to the desert landscape—and its vital, limited water resources—sparked a lifelong interest in the natural world. After studying history and political science at Emory University, he returned west for law school at the University of Arizona, focusing on water and land use law. His career has taken him from local land trusts to national NGOs like Environmental Defense Fund, always at the intersection of policy, place, and practical impact. Along the way, he’s built a reputation for thoughtful, collaborative work that reflects both his legal background and his deep connection to the West.
In our conversation, Aaron shares a detailed look at how conservation policy gets made—from coalition-building and legislative drafting to navigating complex stakeholder relationships. We discuss examples like Colorado’s response to Clean Water Act rollbacks and new tools to support in-stream flows on the Yampa River. He talks about the balance between urgency and patience, the importance of trust in long-term conservation, and how calm, clearheaded engagement can shape better outcomes. It’s a compelling look at the behind-the-scenes work that makes public-facing conservation efforts possible.
Be sure the check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed and links to everything. Thanks to Aaron for this conversation and thank you for listening. Enjoy!
Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, Header photo: Sunset on the Yampa River at Carpenter Ranch in Northwest Colorado. © John Fielder
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:15 – Starting at the beginning, growing up in Tucson
- 7:42 – Underrated Arizona
- 11:23 – From environmental history to law school
- 15:22 – After law school, including a TNC internship
- 18:11 – Landing at the Arizona Land and Water Trust
- 21:24 – Path to TNC
- 24:06 – Aaron’s role at TNC
- 27:42 – Clean Water Act protection project
- 33:40 – Getting the information to the people
- 35:29 – Yampa River Fund
- 40:39 – What makes someone good at policy work?
- 46:11 – The power of relationships
- 49:00 – Federal versus state policy focuses
- 53:40 – Remaining calm
- 57:21 – Book recs
- 1:01:53 – Parting thoughts
Information Referenced:
- Aaron Citron – Associate Director of External Affairs at The Nature Conservancy
- TNC Colorado’s 2024 Year In Review
- Dan Stellar with TNC on Mountain & Prairie
- Arizona Land and Water Trust in Tucson. Aaron’s first role out of law school.
- Peter Gower and Chris Menges from TNC on M&P about the energy transition.
- Discussion about the Yampa River Fund on M&P with TNC’s Diana Lane and Aaron Derwingson
- Book recs: The Emerald Mile, The Fool’s Progress by Edward Abbey
- Doug Peacock on Mountain & Prairie, talking about grizzlies and burying Ed Abbey
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Chris Pague – Stories, Science, and the Southern High Plains
- Betsy Gaines Quammen Returns – Myths, Curiosity, and Human Connection (Live at the Old Salt Festival)
- Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
- Mark Easter – Food, Soil, and Our Planet’s Future
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- The Partnership of Rangeland Trusts – 20 Years of Cooperation, Collaboration, and Conservation
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
David Cronenwett – Lessons from Jiu-Jitsu, On and Off the Mats
David Cronenwett is the owner of Helena Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and a third-degree black belt under American Jiu-Jitsu legend Rafael Lovato Jr. David started his Jiu-Jitsu journey in Seattle in 1996, back when finding a place to train was like stumbling upon a secret society. Over the years, he’s not only refined his own game but has shared this art with hundreds of students in Montana’s capital city since opening his academy in 2016.
But David’s path to Jiu-Jitsu wasn’t exactly a straight shot. He grew up in New Jersey, made his way west to study classical guitar at Cornish College of the Arts in Seattle right as the grunge scene was taking over, and eventually found himself in Montana, drawn by the wilderness and a deep-rooted need for something more. That “something more” turned out to be a mix of conservation work, backcountry living, and, of course, Jiu-Jitsu—an art that would come to define much of his life.
In this conversation, we go deep into the philosophy of Jiu-Jitsu: why it grabs certain people and won’t let go, how it humbles you, how it teaches you to remain calm under pressure, and how it can serve as a vehicle for self-improvement. But beyond that, we explore how Jiu-Jitsu teaches lessons that stretch far beyond the mats—lessons about patience, resilience, adaptability, and how to wisely face challenges in life. We also talk about the importance of culture in an academy, how a good training environment can shape people beyond the gym, and how the shared purpose and community of Jiu-Jitsu has a way of bringing together folks from all walks of life.
And for those of you who might be on the fence about trying Jiu-Jitsu, David has plenty to say about why it’s never too late to start and how it can change not just how you move, but how you see the world.
So whether you’re a seasoned grappler or just curious about what makes this martial art so addictive, there’s a lot to learn from this conversation. Enjoy!
—
Photos courtesy of David Cronenwett & Helena BJJ
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:15 – Getting to know David
- 4:30 – Seattle to Montana
- 6:30 – And from music to conservation
- 7:45 – Early outdoor interests
- 10:00 – First Jiu-Jitsu memories
- 12:30 – Getting into Jiu-Jitsu
- 16:30 – What is it about Jiu-Jitsu?
- 21:00 – Community on the mat
- 26:45 – Importance of having new trainees
- 29:45 – Where the growth happens
- 31:30 – Maintaining culture
- 35:30 – Lessons from practicing and teaching
- 42:30 – Obsessive types
- 45:15 – Not for the bullies
- 47:30 – Maintaining the practice as life goes on
- 53:30 – Self-defense as an insurance policy
- 1:01:00 – What Jiu-Jitsu gives you
- 1:04:45 – Losing ego
- 1:08:45 – Peaks and valleys
- 1:12:30 – Not about the belts
- 1:14:45 – Book recs
- 1:21:30 – Thoughts on therapy
- 1:23:45 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- David Cronenwett
- Helena Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
- Old Salt conservation with Hal Herring. A rare occurrence when Ed wasn’t talking to Hal about Jiu Jitsu at the festival.
- Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. David’s pro-tip is to pick it up, put it down and come back to it often.
- Musashi’s Book of Five Rings
- Origins of Jiu Jitsu
- Jocko Willink on self defense and the young man’s psyche.
- The Gift of Violence by Matt Thornton
- Bad Therapy. And a conversation with author Abigail Shrier on a podcast about the book.
- Tribe, which might be one of the most important written, according to Ed.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- George Hodgin Returns – On Risk-Taking, Leadership, and the Future of Cannabis
- Scott Hulet: Reading + Writing + Surfing + Fishing + Traveling
- Jason Gardner – A Life of Purpose & Service
- Iris Gardner – Living with Intention
- Walt Morgan – Helping People Discover Their Best Selves
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Joe Schobert – From NFL Pro Bowler to Western Conservation Advocate
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Helen Augare Carlson & Dylan DesRosier – Land, Language, and Stewardship in the Blackfeet Nation
Helen Augare Carlson and Dylan DesRosier are leaders, community builders, and proud members of the Blackfeet Nation. Helen, the Chair of the Piikani Studies Division at Blackfeet Community College, has dedicated over two decades to education, cultural preservation, and building pathways for future generations. Dylan, the Blackfeet Program Manager with The Nature Conservancy, brings a wealth of experience in conservation work rooted in respect for Indigenous knowledge and long-term community collaboration. In addition to their official roles, they both wear many hats when it comes to serving their communities—mentoring youth, engaging in policy discussions, telling stories, and working on grassroots initiatives that strengthen cultural and environmental resilience.
In this episode, we explore the profound relationships between land, language, and stewardship. Helen shares the moving story behind her Blackfoot name, Dylan reflects on his time working in Glacier National Park and how it shaped his conservation approach, and we dig into the groundbreaking Chief Mountain Initiative—an effort that weaves together conservation, education, and cultural revitalization.
We also discuss the evolving role of conservation organizations, TNC’s comprehensive approach to supporting Blackfeet initiatives, the importance of holistic thinking, and why Indigenous leadership is crucial for the future of land stewardship. As usual, we wrap up with some incredible book recommendations that will deepen your understanding of these topics long after the episode ends.
This conversation is rich with wisdom, humor, and insight, and Helen and Dylan make quite a team, bringing their unique expertise and shared passion for their community to this important discussion. I’m so excited for you to hear it. So let’s dive in—here’s my conversation with Helen Augare Carlson and Dylan DesRosier.
Header photo by Dylan DesRosier, headshots courtesy of Dylan and Helen
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:03 – Introductions, starting with Helen
- 7:18 – Helen’s Blackfeet names
- 12:18 – When to use “Blackfoot” or “Blackfeet”
- 13:33 – Dylan’s bio and Blackfeet name
- 17:48 – Community health and education
- 23:03 – Why Dylan wanted to plug into TNC
- 26:48 – Blackfeet connection to land
- 30:33 – Helen’s thoughts on TNC
- 36:03 – Face-to-face trust
- 38:48 – Chief Mountain initiative
- 45:48 – Measuring progress on a huge timeframe
- 50:48 – Progress in Helen’s view
- 56:03 – Like biodiversity, human diversity is important, too
- 1:01:03 – What Dylan’s learned from Helen
- 1:03:03 – And what Helen’s learned from Dylan
- 1:06:33 – Book recs
- 1:12:33 – Parting words
- 1:15:03 – A Land Back addendum
Information Referenced:
- Helen Augare Carlson / Magpie Woman
- Dylan DesRosier / Bear Star
- TNC Montana’s Annual Report (page 12)
- Chief Mountain
- Land Back movements
- The One-Straw Revolution
- Dr. Leroy Little Bear on Indigenous knowledge and Western science.
- Igniting the Sparkle: An Indigenous Science Education Model
- Blackfoot Ways of Knowing
- The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer, author of Braiding Sweetgrass
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- Celene Hawkins & Izabella Ruffino – Tribal Partnerships, Indigenous Voices, Cutting-Edge Conservation
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
- Chris Pague – Stories, Science, and the Southern High Plains
- Matt Cahill – A Deep Dive into the Sagebrush Sea
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
George Hodgin Returns – On Risk-Taking, Leadership, and the Future of Cannabis
George Hodgin is a former Navy SEAL turned entrepreneur who is revolutionizing the world of medical cannabis research. George is the founder and CEO of Biopharmaceutical Research Company (BRC), one of the only federally legal cannabis research organizations in the United States. His company is leading the charge in developing safe, regulated, and scientifically-backed cannabis-based therapeutics—offering alternatives to opioids and other pharmaceutical treatments.
This is George’s second time on the podcast—our first conversation was almost exactly five years ago, back when his company was in its early stages, the pandemic was just beginning, and he was navigating the uncharted waters of federal cannabis regulations. Since we last spoke, BRC has made huge strides—partnering with leading medical institutions, earning FDA orphan drug designation, and paving the way for legal, cannabis-based medications.
If you haven’t already, I highly recommend going back and listening to that first episode, where George shares the full story of his fascinating career trajectory—his time as a Navy SEAL, his MBA at Stanford, and his undergraduate experience as a Morehead-Cain Scholar at the University of North Carolina. That conversation is a great companion to this one and provides even more insight into his unique journey.
In this episode, George and I dive into the evolution of BRC, the shifting cultural & political landscape around cannabis, and what it’s like balancing an entrepreneurial mindset with the slow, methodical world of federal drug approval. We also talk leadership, risk assessment in business and combat, humility vs arrogance, and what it’s been like to watch his wife, bestselling author & culinary powerhouse Caroline Chambers, build an incredible career of her own. Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, plus links to resources, books, and more.
George is one of the most insightful, driven, and humble people I know, and I always learn a ton from our conversations. Whether you’re interested in business, science, leadership, or just a great story of perseverance and innovation, this episode has something for you.
Hope you enjoy!
—
Photos courtesy of George Hodgin and Caroline Chambers
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 2:36 – Reconnecting with George
- 3:51 – George’s BRC elevator pitch
- 6:51 – City of Hope collaboration
- 10:36 – Choosing partnerships and plans
- 13:36 – What makes a successful idea
- 16:06 – Company mechanics
- 18:21 – Energy balance
- 22:06 – Cannabis in the name
- 23:51 – Cannabis sentiments culturally shifting
- 26:36 – But not legally
- 28:06 – Regulations and competition
- 32:21 – Different schedules of drugs
- 36:36 – Betting on the idea versus the team
- 41:21 – Risk framework
- 46:51 – When do you stop planning?
- 51:06 – Favorite failure
- 55:36 – Not seeing the forest for the trees
- 59:06 – Does cockiness play a role?
- 1:02:06 – George’s wife’s cooking journey
- 1:07:06 – General Mattis’ influence
- 1:08:51 – Book recs
- 1:11:06 – Parting words, asking Ed a question
Information Referenced:
- George Hodgin
- Biopharmaceutical Research Company
- George’s first M&P episode
- BRC’s partnership with City of Hope to address pain management in breast cancer patients.
- Drug schedules per the DEA
- Bill O’Reilly: “We’ll do it live!!”
- Caroline Chambers
- What To Cook When You Don’t Feel Like Cooking by Caroline Chambers
- General Jim Mattis’ memoir, Call Sign Chaos. George’s son, Mattis, is named after General Mattis.
- Hampton Sides’ Blood and Thunder.
- King Rat by James Clavell, same author of the stories that inspired the Shogun series.
- The Splendid and the Vile, not just another Churchill book, according to George.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Jason Gardner – A Life of Purpose & Service
- Iris Gardner – Living with Intention
- Rick Ridgeway – Purpose-Driven Adventurer
- Walt Morgan – Helping People Discover Their Best Selves
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Hampton Sides Returns: The Wild and Tragic Tale of Captain James Cook
- Joe Schobert – From NFL Pro Bowler to Western Conservation Advocate
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Ivan McClellan Returns – From Behind the Lens to Center of the Arena
Ivan McClellan is a photographer, writer, and storyteller who’s shining a light on Black cowboy culture in a way that’s never been done before. When we first talked back in 2020, Ivan was in the early stages of immersing himself in this world—capturing rodeos, meeting cowboys, and telling stories that had largely been overlooked. Now, nearly five years later, he’s once again forging his own path by creating Eight Seconds Rodeo, an electrifying, high-stakes event that’s bringing some of the best cowboys and cowgirls in the country together to compete for serious prize money, all while celebrating a rich and important legacy.
In this episode, Ivan shares the inspiring story of how Eight Seconds Rodeo came to life—from a passion project sparked by tragedy to a must-see event that’s redefining the rodeo world. We dig into the challenges of launching something this big from scratch, the power of storytelling to shift culture, and what it means to build something bigger than yourself. Ivan also talks about his new photography book, his creative process, and how he stays grounded while juggling everything he’s got going on.
If you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to go back to our first podcast conversation, where we discuss Ivan’s early life and upbringing, as well as his journey into professional photography and the world of Black rodeo. It’s super inspiring to see how his career has grown and evolved over the last few years– and also to see how he’s continued to be such a humble, hard-working family man.
Whether you’re a longtime rodeo fan or just love hearing stories about people chasing big, meaningful dreams, this conversation is for you.
As always, you can find links to Ivan’s work, Eight Seconds Rodeo, his book, and our first conversation in the episode notes. And if you’re near Portland or Philadelphia in 2025, do yourself a favor and check out one of his rodeos. You won’t regret it.
Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ivan McClellan!
—
Photos courtesy of Ivan McClellan and Eight Seconds Rodeo
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:20 – Checking in with Ivan
- 7:05 – Eight Seconds Rodeo beginnings
- 9:35 – Knowing Ouncie
- 14:35 – The first step and conquering doubt
- 16:05 – Choosing Portland
- 18:35 – Someone to run the rodeo
- 22:50 – Stories of the first rodeo
- 26:50 – Year two
- 29:05 – What’s in store for 2025
- 32:35 – Balancing helping others and being the face
- 38:05 – The driving force
- 39:20 – The story of Ivan’s photography book
- 46:35 – Is a written book in store?
- 48:20 – Wearing a cowboy hat
- 52:35 – For more info on Ivan
Information Referenced:
- Eight Seconds
- Eight Seconds Rodeo
- Ivan on Instagram
- Ivan’s first appearance on M&P
- A Long list of incredible press on Ivan and Eight Seconds
- Ivan’s tribute to Ouncie on Instagram
- Ivan writing about Ouncie on Eight Seconds
- Gordon Parks, photographer
- Shaft, directed by Gordon Parks
- Learning Tree, Gordon Park’s semi-autobiographical book
- Ivan’s book, 8 Seconds: Black Rodeo Culture. This book came out just after Beyonce’s Grammy-winning Cowboy Carter album. Ivan said he benefitted by riding the coattails of the publicity of that album.
- Other Black rodeos, including Bill Pickett Rodeo and Black Rodeo USA
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Joe Schobert – From NFL Pro Bowler to Western Conservation Advocate
- Dr. Alan Townsend – Generosity & Curiosity in the Face of Tragedy
- Logan Maxwell Hagege Returns – On Taking Action & Finding Balance
- Rebecca Clarren – “The Cost of Free Land”
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Betsy Gaines Quammen Returns – Myths, Curiosity, and Human Connection (Live at the Old Salt Festival)
Betsy Gaines Quammen is a Montana-based historian and writer whose work explores the history and myths of the American West, and how those stories have endured and shaped life in the region today. Betsy joined me on the podcast several years ago to discuss her amazing book, American Zion: Cliven Bundy, God, and Public Lands in the West, and since then, she’s published another must-read: True West: Myth and Mending on the Far Side of America. In True West, Betsy meets face-to-face with a wide range of folks here in the West– from militia members to hardcore environmentalists– and seeks to understand why they believe what they do. Combining these conversations with her deep understanding of history, Betsy is able to demonstrate the fascinating complexity and contradictions that define many of the people and issues in today’s West.
We recorded this conversation on stage at the 2024 Old Salt Festival, where Betsy was nice enough to join us for the three-day festival of music, food, and conversation. As you’ll hear me say in the episode, Betsy and her work have played a huge role in my never-ending quest to try and understand this region, and I consider her to be a great friend and mentor. But even if you don’t have any interest in the West’s history or modern-day conflicts, there are big lessons to be learned from Betsy’s approach to her work. She is committed to finding the humanity in everyone– even people she completely disagrees with. Rather than attack them and their ideas, she approaches them with genuine curiosity, really trying to understand what they believe and why. And even when no common ideological ground can be found, there is still mutual respect. And I think most people will agree that we need more of these types of respectful interactions these days.
In this conversation, we talk a bit about Betsy’s background and why she is so fascinated with understanding myths and the West. We talk about her commitment to having deep conversations with people across political and socio-economic spectrums, and she describes one of the unlikely friendships she built with a man whose views on politics, public lands, and the environment could not be further from her own. We discuss the importance of getting off the internet and having face-to-face conversations, how real estate development is changing the ecology and economics of the West, her thoughts on the future, and more. We also took questions from the audience, which was a lot of fun.
Again, I can’t thank Betsy enough for joining me onstage for this conversation, but more importantly, for the wisdom she has shared with me over the years. If you haven’t read True West, I encourage you to pick up a copy as soon as you can, and I’d also encourage you to listen to our first conversation, where Betsy talks a lot about her life and career journey. And tickets for the 2025 Old Salt Festival are on sale now, so if you’d like to experience conversations like this in person– plus music, food, Western makers, and more– follow the link in the episode notes to grab your tickets.
Enjoy!
—
Header photo by Ed, headshot courtesy of Betsy Gaines Quammen
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:15 – Introducing Betsy at Old Salt
- 7:45 – Why the West?
- 10:15 – Discussing myths
- 14:15 – Betsy talks across the aisle
- 17:30 – Betsy’s relationship with Lance
- 19:45 – Lance’s email
- 23:15 – Creating conversations outside the internet
- 26:00 – Real estate development in the West
- 30:00 – Covid as a catalyst
- 34:30 – Predicting the future
- 35:45 – Q&A
- 39:15 – Should we trust the government?
- 41:30 – Lance’s takeaways
- 43:30 – A ‘real’ Montanan
- 49:45 – Our energy future
- 53:00 – Parting thoughts
Information Referenced:
- Betsy Gaines Quammen
- Old Salt Festival
- True West by Betsy Gaines Quammen
- American Zion by Betsy Gaines Quammen
- Betsy’s first M&P episode
- Montana Book Company in Helena, Montana
- Stewart Rhoades’ Montana connections, courtesy the Flathead Beacon
- M&P’s conversation with Hal Herring at Old Salt
- Becoming Little Shell by Chris La Tray, Montana’s poet laureate
- An Irritable Métis, Chris La Tray’s Substack
- Chris La Tray on M&P
- Sterling Drake on M&P
- M&P and The Nature Conservancy on the energy transition
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Dr. Sara Dant Returns – “Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West”
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Cole Mannix – Building Community through Land Stewardship and Local Food
- Doug Peacock – 50 Years of Fighting for the Grizzlies
- David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Chris Pague – Stories, Science, and the Southern High Plains
Chris Pague is the Senior Conservation Ecologist at The Nature Conservancy, and he is deeply involved in so many of the topics we discuss here on the podcast– grasslands, bison, endangered species, landscape-scale conservation, and more. For many decades now, Chris has been working on the frontlines of TNC’s science-based conservation efforts, and during his tenure, he’s accumulated a mind-blowing amount of knowledge about everything from the tiniest prairie plants to the plains’ largest mammals. But what makes Chris so special is his ability to translate complex ecology into inspiring, impactful stories– stories that resonate with everyone from the most committed conservationists to people who are just beginning to learn about the West’s wild places.
Chris grew up in Virginia, and for as long as he can remember, he’s been obsessed with the outdoors, wild creatures, and all varieties of plants. He eventually moved West to take a job in Colorado with the Nature Conservancy, where he’s been an invaluable member of the team ever since. I personally credit Chris for helping me in my own journey to understand the importance of grasslands and connected landscapes across the Southern High Plains, thanks to a presentation Chris gave at an event I was attending over a decade ago. I know there are countless other folks just like me who credit Chris with helping them to better understand and appreciate pressing conservation issues— and more importantly, to take action. Between his on-the-ground ecology work and his gift of storytelling, it’s difficult to fully wrap my head around the scale of the positive impact Chris has had over his career.
So, I was long overdue in having Chris join me for a podcast conversation. We could’ve talked for many hours, but in this chat, we still managed to cover a lot, including: Chris’s upbringing in Virginia and some of our shared favorite Virginia landscapes; his decision to move to Colorado; the decades-long shift in thinking around grasslands conservation; the importance of storytelling to communicate critical science, TNC’s Southern High Plains Initiative; optimism and the wisdom of Ted Lasso; partnerships and relationships; favorite books, and much more.
A huge thanks to Chris for this wonderful conversation, but more importantly, thanks to Chris for his many decades of inspiring work. Enjoy.
—
Header photo courtesy of TNC– header by Terri Schulz
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:45 – Introducing Chris
- 8:30 – Chris’s favorite Virginia spots
- 9:45 – Making the decision to work for TNC
- 12:45 – Grassland evolution
- 17:30 – Why are grasslands important?
- 21:15 – Science and storytelling
- 24:15 – 50 years of land conservation history
- 28:00 – TNC’s Southern High Plains Initiative
- 35:15 – Protecting land
- 42:30 – Keep or sell?
- 47:45 – Building relationships
- 52:45 – Ted Lasso and optimism
- 56:45 – Increase in partnerships
- 58:45 – What Chris is excited about
- 1:03:45 – Book recs
- 1:06:45 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- Chris Pague
- Southern High Plains Initiative
- Short Film: Connecting the Big Wide Open
- Matt Moorhead & Galen Guerrero-Murphy episode
- The Birds of America. That book and Chris’s dad’s binoculars got him into birds and the outdoors.
- RC Cola, one of Chris’s early jobs, manufactured by Dr. Pepper.
- Grayson Highlands State Park in Virginia, located near the two highest peaks in the state.
- Denver Museum of Nature & Science
- Ted Lasso, the eternal optimist
- Chris says an increase in conservation partnerships gives him a reason for hope. Some of those partnerships include those with The Conservation Fund, The Wilderness Society, Ducks Unlimited and Great Outdoors Colorado.
- The Big Empty
- Leaving Space for Nature
- Habitats of the World
- The Book of Hope by Jane Goodall
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Jesse Smith – A Regenerative Approach to Land and Life
- Dr. Katharine Hayhoe – Effecting Change Through Authentic Conversation
- The Partnership of Rangeland Trusts – 20 Years of Cooperation, Collaboration, and Conservation
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Sandy Colhoun – Building Leaders Through Outdoor Education
- 50 Years of the Endangered Species Act – Live in Austin
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
Nicole Qualtieri – Charting a New Course in the Changing Landscape of Outdoor Media
Photo by Lindsey Mulcare
Nicole Qualtieri is an outdoor writer and editor, a conservationist, and a committed outdoorswoman. Over the past decade, she’s worked with some of the most notable brands in the outdoor industry, including MeatEater, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, and GearJunkie, and she has bylines with many well-known outdoor publications, such as Outside, Modern Huntsman, and Backcountry Journal. But despite being plugged in with many of the best names in the outdoor business, she and a few creative friends decided to go out on a limb and start their own outdoor publication– one that focuses on substance over clickbait, depth and vulnerability over the silly quest for virality and search engine optimization.
The name of the project is The Westrn, and it combines the best parts of online writing and journalism with a printed, hold-it-in-your-hands newspaper that ships to subscribers four times per year. As you’ll hear Nicole describe, the topics covered by The Westrn’s include hunting, conservation, and a wide range of outdoor adventure. But the deeper point of it all is to build a tight-knit community of engaged outdoor enthusiasts of all stripes, who appreciate the value of nuanced writing, thinking, and publishing. As many legacy outdoor media brands have become controlled by private equity and now focus on scalability over creativity and quality, the role of people like Nicole and her partners at the Westrn are all the more important— they are taking a real risk to make the Westrn a reality, and I greatly admire their vision and commitment to action.
Nicole and I connected online– she was at her home in Anaconda, Montana and I was here in Colorado Springs– and we had an enlightening conversation filled with lots of laughs about her fascinating life, career, and the creation of The Westrn. We discussed her upbringing in what she describes as a high-control religious cult and how hunting and the outdoors were her way of working through some of that childhood trauma. We discussed her non-traditional career path, which included a stint as a stand-up comic, and how she worked her way into the outdoor industry. We discuss the importance of hard work, preparation, and grinding, and how self-confidence is generated from those activities. We discuss the current state of the outdoor media industry, the financial challenges of making it as a freelancer, her writing process, contentment vs happiness, favorite books, and of course, her goals for The Westrn.
Nicole was also kind enough to offer some discount codes for M&P listeners:
20% Discount off the Annual Subscription
—Link for M+P Listeners will auto-populate discount: https://www.thewestrn.com/mtnprairie
20% Off Pre-Order Single Issues:
—Use link to use code: https://thewestrnstore.com/discount/MTNPRAIRIE?redirect=%2Fproducts%2Fthe-westrn-individual-issue
—Or use code MTNPRAIRIE
A huge thanks to Nicole for the conversation, and thank you for listening. Enjoy!
—
Photos courtesy of Nicole Qualtieri: Header by Ty Grethen of Weatherby; Embedded portrait by Lindsey Mulcare
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 4:30 – Nicole and Ed’s first convo (shared Roadhouse appreciation)
- 6:15 – Nicole’s background
- 8:15 – How writing’s been a part of Nicole’s life
- 13:15 – Getting out West
- 16:30 – College degrees
- 19:15 – On writing On Killing Animals
- 21:00 – The grind and the craft
- 28:00 – Taking the pain
- 30:15 – Outside’s rejection of On Killing Animals
- 34:45 – The corporatization of outdoor media
- 44:30 – The Westrn
- 54:30 – Taking a good idea and running with it
- 59:45 – Etymology of happy
- 1:02:30 – Nicole’s book recs
- 1:07:00 – Parting words
Information Referenced:
- Nicole Qualtieri
- The Westrn
- The Westrn’s Newspaper
- On Killing Animals, the first story published by The Westrn, by Nicole
- How to Know if You’re in a Cult with Tia Levings: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach and Amanda Doyle’s podcast with Tia Levvings
- The Best of Outside: The First 20 Years
- Gear Junkie
- MeatEater
- The Brass Check by Upton Sinclar, journalism and corruption
- How to get the Westrn in print
- The Surfer’s Journal and Ed’s interview with Scott Hulet
- Adventure Journal
- Definition of “happy”
- If you want to be an outdoor writer, read: A Rough Guide to the Heart and A Little More About Me by Pam Houston; H is for Hawk by Helen Macdonald
- If you’re interested in conservation, read: Louis Warren’s The Hunter’s GameIf you want poems, read: Returning to Earth, Jim Harrison; Mary Oliver’s Devotions; Nikki Giovanni’s Bicycles; and not an Ode to the Black Panther, but Pablo Neruda’s Ode to an Onion, as a substitute.
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Heidi Redd & Sue Bellagamba – Tales from the Dugout Ranch
- Kathie Sever – Chainstitching, Craftsmanship, and Cosmic Western Wear
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival
(photo: via BHA by by Tim Peterson)
Hal Herring is an award-winning outdoor journalist, fierce public lands advocate, and thoughtful, action-oriented conservationist. He’s also an accomplished podcaster and host of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers’ Podcast & Blast with Hal Herring. If you’re a longtime listener of Mountain & Prairie, you may remember my first episode with Hal back in December of 2019– pre-pandemic, when the world was a much different place. Like me, Hal was born and raised in the south, and also like me, his Southern accent has not faded. But he’s made Montana his home for many decades now and has established himself as one of the most respected voices in conservation here in the American West.
This episode was recorded live and on stage at the 2024 Old Salt Festival on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. If you’re not familiar with Old Salt, it’s a three-day gathering in Montana’s Blackfoot Valley that combines live Americana music with artists like Sterling Drake and Summer Dean, wood-fired cooking with chefs including Eduardo Garcia, and a General Store featuring western makers such as Cate Havstad, Jillian Lukiwski, Christy Sing, and many more. The festival also includes a ton of on-stage conversations about land stewardship, conservation, history, literature, and more– and this is one of those conversations.
Most of you are probably already familiar with Hal, but if you’re not, you are in for a treat. Hal brings such energy, humor, and knowledge to everything he does, and he has helped me in my own personal journey to better understand this complex region known as the American West. In this conversation, we covered a lot, including: Hal’s journey from Alabama to Montana, his thoughts on the current state of family ranching and public lands, optimism vs pessimism, and who he admires in the conservation space. We also discuss his forthcoming book on public lands, an idea he is working on for a new podcast, and we take a number of questions from the audience.
I know you’ll learn a lot from this episode– I consider Hal a great teacher and leader, and it’s always an honor to spend time with him. Tickets for the 2025 Old Salt Festival are on sale now, so follow this link to learn more and secure your spot at what will surely be another amazing weekend with amazing people.
Thanks to Hal for the conversation, to the Mannix Family for opening up their ranch for this festival and to you for listening!
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Header photo courtesy of Old Salt, photo of Hal courtesy of BHA and by Tim Peterson
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
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RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Ed introducing Hal at Old Salt Festival
- 4:45 – How Hal ended up in Montana
- 7:15 – Hal’s thoughts on the consolidation, absorption of family ranches
- 9:30 – Threat to public lands
- 11:15 – Hal’s “ah ha” moments as he’s researching his new book
- 12:45 – Hal’s book recs
- 15:00 – Finding common ground
- 18:15 – Keeping the energy going
- 19:15 – Hal’s new podcast project
- 23:45 – What Hal views as current threats to public lands (1872 mining law)
- 26:00 – Optimist or pessimist?
- 29:15 – Who’s taking action?
- 31:45 – Start of Q&A, Hal expanding on new podcast
- 34:00 – Broadening the audience
- 36:00 – What’s Hal doing beyond podcasting to trigger improvement?
- 37:15 – Ideas into action
- 39:00 – Project 2025
- 42:15 – Getting people’s attention without scaring them
- 44:00 – Future of journalism
- 46:00 – Montana Senate race
Information Referenced:
- Hal Herring
- Old Salt Festival
- Hal’s first M&P appearance
- Annick Smith and William Kittridge’s The Last Best Place. Annick was at a writers’ workshop with Hal in 1988.
- 1988 fires in Montana, during which about 36% of Yellowstone National Park burned.
- Homestead Act, during which 270 million acres of U.S. land was transitioned from public to private land in the Lincoln Administration to encourage westward expansion.
- Peter Kropotkin, Mikhail Bakunin, in Hal’s Russian anarchists phase.
- The Wilderness Warrior, Douglas Brinkley. In Hal’s FDR phase.
- Betsy Gaines Quammen’s True West
- Douglas Brinkley’s Silent Spring Revolution
- Silent Spring, touchstone of the environmental movement in the 1970s
- Nate Schweber’s This America of Ours
- Hal’s Backcountry Hunters and Anglers podcast
- What do you really believe in? Hal discusses on Hunt Talk Radio’s podcast.
- The Road, Cormac McCarthy
- Life of Pi
- 1970s Toxic Substances Control Act
- Michael Lewis’s The Fifth Risk
- Outdoor Afro
- Weeds of the West
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- David James Duncan – Live at the Old Salt Festival
- Douglas Brinkley – Exploring the Past to Find Inspiration for the Future
- Nate Schweber – A Forgotten Chapter of American Conservation
- Anna Borgman – Obsession, Curiosity, and Purpose-Driven Work
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Corissa Busse – Tribal-Led Buffalo Restoration in the American West and Beyond
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
- Sterling Drake – Roots Music, Ranching, and Giving Back
- Mark Kenyon – A Passion for Public Lands
- Kami Bakken – How to Build a Life and Career in the West’s Wide-Open Spaces
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
Scott Hulet: Reading + Writing + Surfing + Fishing + Traveling
(credit: Ben Steele)
Scott Hulet is a legendary writer, editor, and current Creative Director at The Surfer’s Journal. He also has a new book titled Flow Violento: A Scott Hulet Omnibus, which is a compilation of more than thirty years of his writing about surfing, fishing, travel, food, music, and more. If you subscribe to my book recommendations email, then you’ll already know how much I loved the book– Scott brings to life the cultures, waves, and landscapes of Latin America using his unique blend of insights, humor, and perfectly crafted prose. If you’re a fan of travelogues, adventure tales, and cultural immersion, I know you’ll enjoy Flow Violento.
Scott was born and raised in southern California, and he’s been writing for longer than he can even remember. Skating and surfing entered his life very early, as did travel to Mexico for surf trips. Through a deep commitment to the craft of writing and surfing, he’s been able to build a successful career that combines both. But for all his success, there have also been some speedbumps along the way, including a string of health scares during his fifties that culminated with a very serious stroke. But after a ton of hard work and help from some inspiring medical professionals, Scott was able to make a full recovery– and refocus his efforts on writing, traveling, and surfing.
I’ve been a huge fan of The Surfer’s Journal and Scott for many, many years, so I was honored that he took the time to chat with me about his life, work, and the new book. I caught him just a few days before he took off to the Colombian Amazon for a fishing and research trip, and we had a fun chat about reading, writing, surfing, traveling, and more. Some of the topics include: his “hunting and gathering” approach to reading; some of his favorite childhood books; his first foundational surfing and traveling experiences; moving to Hawaii after high school; becoming a professional writer; the importance of approaching new cultures with respect; his health scares and lessons learned; his surprising thoughts on social media; rules for travel; and much more.
A big thanks to Scott for the conversation and his decades of important work. And another big thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!
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Header photo by Ed, headshot by Ben Steele
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
… or wherever you get your podcasts!
—
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:30 – Scott’s “hunting and gathering” approach to reading
- 5:30 – Scott’s father’s influence on his reading
- 7:00 – Favorite childhood books
- 8:15 – A brief family history
- 9:35 – Childhood activities in San Diego
- 11:45 – First three foundational surfing experiences
- 16:00 – First adventure in Mexico
- 20:30 – Approaching new cultures and locations with respect… or else
- 24:00 – Heading to university
- 25:45 – Writing: from avocation to vocation
- 28:00 – Mentors
- 34:30 – How TSJ has maintained such a loyal following in the changing world of print media
- 36:45 – A surprisingly positive take on Twitter/X
- 39:45 – The importance of knowing a wide range of people with wide ranges of ideas
- 44:45 – The art of editing
- 47:15 – Courting the Muse
- 49:30 – Lessons learned from several super-intense health trials
- 53:30 – Pre-stroke Scott vs post-stroke Scott
- 55:45 – How to stand out from the crowd as a creative
- 57:15 – There are still unknown, off-the-map places to discover
- 59:00 – Rules for thinking traveler
- 1:01:00 – Important books
- 1:05:00 – Parting words of wisdom
Information Referenced:
- Flow Violento: A Scott Hulet Omnibus
- The Surfer’s Journal
- Scott on the The Surfer’s Journal podcast, Soundings with Jamie Brisick
- World Book
- Harvard Classics
- Robert Service
- My Side of the Mountain by Jean Craighead George
- Hatchet by Gary Paulsen
- The Yearling by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings
- Jim Thompson
- Autodidact
- Chris Ahrens
- Guy Motil
- Steve Pezman
- Kevin Naughton
- Drew Kampion
- Dale Herd
- Craig Stecyk
- The Belly of Paris by Emile Zola
- Our Man in Havana by Graham Greene and Christopher Hitchens
- Eyelids of Morning; the mingled destinies of crocodiles and men: Being a description of the origins, history, and prospects of Lake Rudolf, its peoples, deserts, rivers, mountains, and weather by Peter Beard
- Escoffier: The Complete Guide to the Art of Modern Cookery
- The Raw and the Cooked: Adventures of a Roving Gourmand by Jim Harrison
- Through the Brazilian Wilderness by Theodore Roosevelt
- The River of Doubt: Theodore Roosevelt’s Darkest Journey by Candice Millard
- Rio Orinoco
- Don’t Save Anything: Uncollected Essays, Articles, and Profiles by James Salter
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Chris Burkard, Part 2 – Seeking Beauty Through Adventure
- Christian Beamish – West Coast Craftsman
- John Vaillant – A Riveting Exploration of Fire
- Rick Wittenbraker – Humility, Generosity, and Building One-of-a-Kind Brands
- Logan Maxwell Hagege Returns – On Taking Action & Finding Balance
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Nick Offerman – Empathy, Nuance, & Good Hard Work
- Kristine Tompkins – Nothing to Lose
Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes
