Category: Blog

Nicholas Triolo – What the Circuitous Path Reveals

Nick Triolo (photo: Rio Chantel)

Nicholas Triolo is a writer, endurance athlete, and educator whose life and work sit at the crossroads of ecology, activism, and storytelling. For years he’s been exploring what happens when we stop charging toward the summit and start paying attention to the circuitous paths that wind around it. His new book, The Way Around: A Field Guide to Going Nowhere, is the culmination of that exploration — a lyrical, wide-ranging meditation on movement, place, and the art of staying present.

In the book, Nick traces a series of pilgrimages: circling a sacred mountain in Tibet, exploring a culturally significant northern California hiking tradition, and walking the rim of one of Montana’s most infamous superfund sites. Each journey reveals something deeper — about endurance and restraint, about intimacy with landscapes and with ourselves, and about the courage to face environmental and cultural shadows without turning away. The book weaves together memoir, travel writing, and ecological inquiry, and in doing so, it asks us to reconsider how we measure meaning: not by miles logged or summits bagged, but by the depth of our attention and the generosity of our presence.

In this conversation, Nick and I dig into the ideas behind the book — the practice of circumambulation, the pitfalls of “summit fever,” and the possibility of finding beauty even in places scarred by extraction. We also talk about the creative process: how to find your authentic voice in a world full of (good and bad) influences, how to write with both intimacy and respect, and how stories can become tools for resilience and re-enchantment.

If you’ve ever sensed that the most interesting part of a long run, a wilderness trip, or a creative endeavor is what happens beneath the surface, this is a conversation for you. Nick has a gift for showing us how going “nowhere” can sometimes bring us closer to where we most need to be.

Check out the episode notes for links to everything. Hope you enjoy!


Header photo courtesy of UTMB Thailand, headshot by Rio Chantel.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:22 – Intro, when does curiosity become a book?
  • 10:14 – Summits versus processes
  • 12:31 – Western States
  • 18:34 – Structure of Nick’s book
  • 24:55 – In each round
  • 28:32 – Butte, America
  • 32:47 – Instruction manual for thinking clearly
  • 35:09 – Nick reads from Widening Circles
  • 38:01 – Putting so much personal out there
  • 45:26 – Finding Nick’s voice (and Ed’s)
  • 48:59 – Trusting curiosity
  • 53:44 – Catering to the audience
  • 56:04 – Finding the niche that needs you
  • 59:44 – The Jasmine Dialogues
  • 1:05:06 – Meeting your heroes
  • 1:11:46 – Just do you
  • 1:14:19 – Book recs
  • 1:19:47 – Last thoughts

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Kelly Beevers – Connection, Collaboration, Conservation

Kelly Beevers (photo by Thewmatt Photography)

Kelly Beevers is the Grazing Lands Partner Strategy Lead with The Nature Conservancy, where she helps guide collaborative efforts to support ranchers, strengthen communities, and conserve some of the most threatened ecosystems in North America. Based in Montana, Kelly has built her career at the intersection of real estate, land stewardship, and community-driven conservation—first working in commercial real estate, then private equity and consulting, before finding her home at TNC. Today, she leads TNC’s work that champions rancher-led, peer-to-peer learning and innovation by strengthening, connecting, and activating all varieties of rancher networks.

In this conversation, Kelly and I talk about her unlikely journey from Texas A&M finance classrooms to Montana ranch kitchen tables, and how those experiences shaped her approach to building authentic partnerships. We dig into the power of peer-to-peer rancher networks, why local knowledge and community leadership are essential for durable conservation, and how initiatives like Women in Ranching are reshaping the future of stewardship. Along the way, Kelly shares lessons from her career pivots, stories of on-the-ground innovation, and the hope she draws from the people she works with every day. She also offers a ton of excellent book recommendations, so be sure the check out the episode notes for links to everything.

Kelly brings a rare mix of technical expertise, strategic vision, and deep human connection to her work, and I’ve had the privilege of calling her a friend for many years. It’s been a joy to watch her career evolve, and I know listeners will take away both inspiration and practical insight from this conversation. Enjoy!

Header photo by Emmie Sperandeo, photo with pups by Thewmatt Photography


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:50 – Intro, Kelly’s early real estate history
  • 6:39 – Next steps after real estate
  • 9:23 – What drew Kelly to the West
  • 14:30 – Specializing in listening
  • 19:49 – From a company of one to a national nonprofit
  • 24:41 – Kelly’s role at TNC
  • 28:33 – Figuring out focus
  • 36:23 – “All it took”
  • 44:11 – How Kelly’s work fits into the broader TNC picture
  • 54:35 – Women in Ranching
  • 1:00:11 – Earning hope
  • 1:05:58 – Book recs
  • 1:10:42 – Wrapping up

Information Referenced:

  • Kelly Beevers
  • TNC Regenerative Grazing Lands, primarily focused on the Great Plains and the Western United States.
  • North America’s grazing lands — including grasslands, shrublands and prairies — have been disappearing at an alarming rate. What remains is at risk from land conversion, extreme weather events and habitat loss, among other threats. The Nature Conservancy is working with producers, collaboratives, companies and government agencies to implement large-scale solutions to conserve these iconic lands and enhance the lives of the people who depend on them.
  • TNC’s 2030 Goal: Increase the pace and impact of grazing land conservation. TNC is working to restore, improve and protect the ecological and economic condition of 240 million acres of grazing lands, which can influence how most of the 750 million acres of U.S. grazing lands are managed. 
  • The 240 million acres goal incorporates goals of other teams and work TNC is doing as well. Work is made up of principal (TNC in charge — lands, easements, projects delivering on public lands, etc.), direct (TNC in leading or having direct impact on direction of collaborative project) and indirect (TNC influencing or having a hand, but not in charge).
  • TNC helps to shape policy to support regenerative grazing within the Farm Bill and public land management, creates supply chain incentives that support implementing regenerative practices and champions peer-to-peer networks, like Ranchers Leading Change.
  • M&P Matt Cahill and the sagebrush sea episode
  • M&P Matt Moorhead and Galen Guerrero-Murphy episode
  • M&P Amber Smith episode
  • Kris Tompkins on M&P
  • Ed’s Good News newsletter for when you need some extra hope. 
  • What’s giving Kelly hope: rancher-led collaboratives, Department of Defense interest in agriculture, and the current administration forcing conversations within TNC to tell a more comprehensive story (ecology + economy + community).
  • Women in Ranching
  • Working Lands Collaborative in Wyoming
  • Rancher-led collaboratives like the Ranchers Stewardship Alliance 
  • A revolving loan fund that raised $80,000 to loan to businesses in Winnett, Montana, population 500.
  • Book recs: The Heart of Tracking by Richard Vacha, Never Whistle At Night: An Indigenous Dark Fiction Anthology, The Serviceberry, Becoming Animal by David Abram


Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Cole Mannix & Andrew Anderson – The Hard Work of Building a Better Food System

Cole Mannix and Andrew Anderson

This episode was recorded live on stage at the 2025 Old Salt Festival in Helmville, Montana, where I had the honor of sitting down with two of the people at the center of this ambitious experiment in food, land, and community: Cole Mannix who is the President and co-founder of the Old Salt Co-op and Andrew Anderson who is the manager of the J Bar L Ranch.

If you’ve been following Old Salt, you know it’s much more than a beef company. It’s a bold attempt to rethink how ranching families, local communities, restaurants, and consumers can work together to create a food system that’s resilient, regenerative, and deeply rooted in place. What strikes me most about Cole, Andrew, and the Old Salt team is just how hard they are working to make this vision a reality. They’re juggling ranching, processing, restaurants, and festivals—businesses that are notoriously difficult on their own—and somehow doing it all with an open spirit of generosity, collaboration, and humility.

In this conversation, we dig into the early days of Old Salt, the failures and lessons that shaped it, and the risks of scaling up in an industry designed to squeeze out small producers. We talk about why they chose to take the harder road of building restaurants and hosting a one-of-a-kind festival, how they measure success beyond the spreadsheet, and why they believe community is as important a product as the beef itself. 

Even if you don’t work in food or ranching, the lessons here resonate for anyone trying to build a purpose-driven business. We cover everything from balancing mission and margins, to leading with vulnerability, to learning how to grow without losing sight of your values.

Cole and Andrew are quick to admit they don’t have it all figured out, but their candor, persistence, and vision make this a conversation I know you’ll find as inspiring as I did. Enjoy!


Header photo by Ed, headshots courtesy of Old Salt


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 0:00 – Intro, spirit of generosity
  • 3:38 – Starting at the beginning of Old Salt with Cole
  • 6:51 – Getting to know Andrew with J Bar L
  • 10:18 – Ranching families coming together
  • 14:51 – Lessons learned
  • 19:29 – Getting to the festival, controversies
  • 24:37 – Measuring success
  • 29:20 – Realities of meat processing
  • 34:47 – Restaurant business
  • 38:49 – What we need to know (empower producers!)
  • 42:11 – Start of audience Q&A, snack sticks
  • 44:14 – Q: How did you forge this path?
  • 47:26 – Q: If not the festival, what would the community touch points be?
  • 49:42 – Q: Succession planning
  • 54:41 – Wrapping up and thank yous

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Brady Robinson Returns – Grassroots Conservation on a Global Scale

Brady Robinson (photo: Susannah Allen)

Brady Robinson is a lifelong climber, conservationist, and educator who currently serves as Director of Philanthropy for the Freyja Foundation. His career has spanned outdoor education, nonprofit leadership, and global conservation philanthropy, with past roles including Executive Director of both the Access Fund and the Conservation Alliance. These days, his work focuses on supporting high-impact land and water conservation efforts across South America, with a particular emphasis on Chilean Patagonia.

Brady and I go way back—he was my NOLS instructor in the fall of 1999, on a course that involved big mountains, a few navigational hiccups, and some life-long leadership lessons. That semester planted the seeds for much of what I’ve done professionally and personally—including starting this podcast—and Brady’s been a friend and mentor for going on 26 years. He was also one of the very first guests on this podcast in 2016, back when I had only one microphone and really didn’t know how to work it.

When Brady and I last spoke on the podcast, he was leading the Access Fund, and a lot has happened since then. In this conversation, we catch up on his career and dig into everything he’s working on now. We start out discussing our NOLS experience, Brady’s leadership in forming the Outdoor Alliance (alongside recent podcast guest Adam Cramer), his work on passing major climbing legislation, and the lessons he’s learned about collaboration, trust, and long-game thinking. We spend the second half of the conversation digging into his current work in Patagonia’s Cochamó Valley—a spectacular and at-risk landscape in southern Chile that Brady and his colleagues are working to protect through an ambitious multi-partner campaign. It’s a story of nimble, grassroots conservation work, smart philanthropy, and what’s possible when people align around a shared purpose.

If you’ve enjoyed my conversations with Kris Tompkins or Adam Cramer, then I know you’ll enjoy this one as well. Big thanks to Brady for his decades of support and mentorship—and another big thanks to you for listening. Enjoy!


Header photo by Jimmy Chin, headshot by Susannah Allen


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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Spotify

… or wherever you get your podcasts!


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:27 – Intro and how Ed and Brady met in 1999
  • 9:06 – Access Fund
  • 14:59 – Building a top-notch board
  • 18:12 – Alignment
  • 23:42 – Leaders Brady admires
  • 30:07 – Getting to Patagonia
  • 35:33 – Working with Kris Tompkins
  • 40:57 – Main Freyja Foundation goals
  • 43:48 – The Cochamó Valley
  • 49:55 – Real estate rough
  • 56:52 – The cool kids’ table
  • 1:00:41 – All about the one-on-one
  • 1:02:52 – Book recs

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Colorado River Day 2025 – Essential Books and Conversations

In honor of Colorado River Day 2025, I pulled together a stack of books and past Mountain & Prairie podcast episodes that dig into the Colorado River Basin. Some zoom in on the river itself; others take a wider look at the environmental, agricultural, historical, and cultural forces shaping the basin as a whole.

The whole point of Mountain & Prairie is to make these complex Western issues accessible, understandable, and—dare I say—fun. So think of this as a mini-library for better grasping the Colorado River’s outsized influence on everything west of the 100th meridian.


BOOKS

Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey

The Secret Knowledge of Water by Craig Childs

Losing Eden by Sara Dant

The Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko

A Walk in the Park by Kevin Fedarko

Downriver by Heather Hansman

Encounters with the Archdruid by John McPhee

The Grand Canyon: Between River and Rim by Pete McBride

The Colorado River: Chasing Water by Pete McBride

Where the Water Goes by David Owen

Life After Dead Pool by Zac Podmore

Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner

Brave the Wild River by Melissa L. Sevigny

This America of Ours by Nate Schweber

Beyond the Hundredth Meridian by Wallace Stegner

These are just a few of the books that either I have read or come highly recommended by podcast guests. If I missed any of your favorites, send me a message and I’ll add them in!


PODCASTS


Header photo by Ed.

Celene Hawkins and Taylor Hawes – Navigating the Next Era of the Colorado River

Taylor Hawes (left) and Celene Hawkins (right)

Celene Hawkins is the new Colorado River Program Director for The Nature Conservancy, stepping into the role after years of impactful work in tribal water policy and place-based conservation across the basin. She’s taking the baton from Taylor Hawes, who led the program for nearly 17 years and is now serving as the Colorado River Program’s Special Advisor. It’s a leadership transition at a critical moment for the Colorado River, and in this episode, I was lucky to sit down with both of them in person to talk through the handoff—what’s changing, what’s staying the same, and what the future of the river might look like.

This is both Celene and Taylor’s second time on the podcast, and we cover a lot of ground. We talk about the ongoing negotiations over new operating guidelines for the river—what’s on the table, why the stakes are so high, and what happens if the basin states can’t come to an agreement. We dig into tribal involvement—how things are (slowly) changing after decades of exclusion, and why stronger tribal participation is essential to any long-term solutions. We also explore how conservation groups are bringing new ideas, resources, and partnerships to the table, from modeling future scenarios to piloting creative water-sharing and resilience strategies across the West.

And beyond the policy, we talk about what it actually takes to lead in a time of uncertainty—how to stay grounded, keep teams motivated, and maintain momentum when the challenges feel overwhelming. As always, Taylor and Celene bring a clear-eyed sense of purpose and a refreshing mix of realism and optimism to the conversation.

We’re releasing this episode just ahead of Colorado River Day, which falls on July 25th. So if you care about the West, public lands, rivers, or just want to better understand one of the most important water and conservation challenges in North America, this is a great place to start.

Thanks for listening, I hope you enjoy!

Photos courtesy of TNC, header photo © Eloise Kendy


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:02 – Intro, Taylor’s career shift
  • 7:27 – Celene’s journey into Taylor’s old role
  • 9:07 – What Taylor’s proud of
  • 13:16 – Celene’s pitch for the job
  • 15:21 – Exciting initiatives
  • 17:18 – Overview of the Colorado River Basin negotiations
  • 22:42 – Sticking points
  • 23:54 – Finding the Indigenous voice
  • 28:38 – Alternatives
  • 31:37 – Work outside of negotiations
  • 37:07 – Federal funding freeze impacts
  • 39:04 – Effects of uncertainty
  • 40:57 – Not getting bogged down
  • 44:49 – What Celene’s learned from Taylor
  • 46:28 – And how Taylor thinks Celene is well-positioned
  • 47:22 – Book recs
  • 51:37 – Wrapping up

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Helen Rebanks – “The Farmer’s Wife” – Live at the Old Salt Festival

Helen Rebanks

This conversation with Helen Rebanks was recorded live and on stage at the 2025 Old Salt Festival, held on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. If you were there, you know how special the moment was. If you weren’t—well, I’m glad you’re here now. Even though we were on a stage, in front of a crowd, the conversation had the quiet, reflective feel of two friends talking over a kitchen table—fitting, given how much of Helen’s story centers around that most sacred of domestic spaces.

Helen is the author of The Farmer’s Wife: My Life in Days, a beautiful and deeply grounded book about food, family, work, and the often invisible labor that holds it all together. In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about the joys and struggles of farm life, raising kids, writing honestly without self-pity, and why the kitchen table might just be the most important place in the world. Helen shares stories from her own life and reads a few powerful passages from the book—including one that could double as the Old Salt manifesto.

A huge thank you to Cole Mannix, the Mannix family, and the Old Salt crew for making this event—and this conversation—possible. It’s not every day that a bestselling British author makes the trek to a working ranch in western Montana, but Helen did just that, along with her husband James and two of their four children, Molly and Tom. I’m so happy they made the journey, and I came away deeply grateful for the time we shared and the conversations we had.

Whether you’re a rancher, parent, reader, cook, or just someone trying to live a life of purpose and connection, Helen’s story has something for you. So give it a listen—and if you haven’t already, pick up a copy of The Farmer’s Wife. You’ll be glad you did.

Check out the episode notes for links to everything and thanks so much for listening.


Header photo by Imogen Whitely


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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Spotify

… or wherever you get your podcasts!


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:00 – Introducing Helen
  • 4:04 – Helen reads from The Farmer’s Wife
  • 6:49 – Structuring the book
  • 9:46 – Real work
  • 12:26 – Helen reads again, connecting to Old Salt
  • 17:00 – Shiny individuals and self-autonomy
  • 18:55 – Empathy and compassion
  • 25:23 – Parenting advice from Helen
  • 27:35 – Helen’s take on Montana
  • 31:03 – Staying positive within the chaos
  • 33:14 – Mums can change the world
  • 36:23 – Beginning of audience Q&A
  • 37:24 – Q: Did Helen ever regret her choices?
  • 40:26 – Q: How do we get young people into this lifestyle?
  • 44:10 – Helen and Wendell Berry
  • 45:00 – Book recs (just read memoirs!)
  • 46:39 – What would Helen tell her young self?
  • 48:32 – Helen’s favorite recipes from the book
  • 50:54 – Parting words

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Brendan Leonard Returns – On Writing, Teaching, and Staying Weird

Brendan Leonard

Brendan Leonard is back for his third appearance on the podcast—this time recorded in person at his house in Missoula. Brendan’s the creative mind behind Semi-Rad, and over the years, he’s become a good friend and one of my most trusted advisors when it comes to creativity and building a life around the things you care about. He’s a writer, illustrator, filmmaker, ultrarunner, teacher, and all-around creative machine—someone who’s carved out a career by doing things his own way, with a healthy dose of humor and generosity.

This episode is pretty much two friends sitting at a kitchen table having a laid-back chat about our long list of shared interests. We talk about everything from teaching writing and designing online courses, to the pros and cons of Substack, to how to market your work without feeling like a sellout. We dig into the practical side of creativity—how to make things, share them, and make a living—without losing the joy and weirdness that made you want to create in the first place.

We also get into self-publishing vs. traditional publishing, why Brendan makes funny books like 15-Second Recipes, and why he believes that generosity, self-deprecation, and consistency matter more than flash or perfection. There’s a lot here for anyone trying to make meaningful things in the margins of a busy life… or build a creative life from the ground up.

If you’re new to Brendan’s work, be sure to check out his website, newsletter, and his earlier podcast episodes. I’d also specifically encourage you to check out his most recent book Ultra-Something, his recent film The Seven Summits of My Neighborhood, and the podcast he co-hosts, which is called The Trailhead.

Brendan is one of the most thoughtful, practical, and humble voices out there when it comes to creative work, and I’m always better off after talking to him. Hope you enjoy.


All photos courtesy of Brendan Leonard


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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Spotify

… or wherever you get your podcasts!


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:11 – Brendan blowing out the speakers
  • 3:47 – How Brendan got into teaching and early days at Freeflow
  • 8:06 – Brendan’s teachers
  • 11:09 – The Feynman technique
  • 14:10 – Substack versus a website
  • 17:54 – The necessity of marketing yourself
  • 20:53 – Keeping the voice
  • 25:00 – Moving Brendan’s writing course online
  • 27:23 – Keeping it low-key
  • 29:40 – Abundance vs. scarcity mentality
  • 33:56 – Publisher vs. self-publishing
  • 38:39 – Nickels and dimes of self-publishing
  • 42:31 – Talking Seven Summits of My Neighborhood
  • 50:23 – Digging into the niches
  • 51:55 – Curing the male loneliness epidemic
  • 55:44 – Helping people with humor
  • 58:43 – Treating others with respect
  • 1:00:07 – Book recs

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full, searchable list of episodes


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Sean Claffey – A Resilient Vision for Sagebrush Country

Sean Claffey

Sean Claffey is the Southwest Montana Sagebrush Conservation Coordinator at the Nature Conservancy, a role that places him at the center of one of the West’s most overlooked but critically important ecosystems: the sagebrush steppe. Based in Dillon, Montana, Sean works across public and private lands to protect and restore this sprawling, foundational landscape that serves as habitat for countless species, supports rural economies, and connects the region’s valleys and mountain ranges. Through his leadership in the Southwest Montana Sagebrush Partnership—a collaborative effort uniting agencies, landowners, and nonprofits—Sean helps ensure that the health of this “land in between” doesn’t fall through the cracks.

In this conversation, Sean and I dig into the complex threats facing sagebrush country, from invasive grasses and wildfire to conifer encroachment and land conversion. We talk about how fire suppression and ecological shifts have allowed evergreens like Douglas fir and juniper to overtake sagebrush, and how Sean’s team is using a mix of prescribed burns, manual thinning, and innovative partnerships with local mills to restore balance to the landscape. He also shares how they’re engaging young people in hands-on restoration work, creating pathways for rural youth to connect with the land and gain meaningful employment.

Sean brings a unique blend of scientific insight, community-mindedness, and boots-on-the-ground experience to this work, and he’s quick to credit the collaborative culture of southwest Montana for making so much progress possible. From low-tech wet meadow restoration to building a more resilient restoration economy, this is a hopeful, grounded conversation about how conservation can succeed when it centers people, place, and purpose.

If you’re a new listeners and want to go deeper on this subject, I’d encourage you to go back and listen to my earlier episode with Matt Cahill who gives an excellent crash course on the Sagebrush Sea and the epsiode with Austin Rempel and Nancy Smith, who dig deep into riparian restoration in Montana.  

But for this episode, be sure the check out the webpage and episode notes for some excellent videos about Sean’s work and links to everything we discuss.  Thanks for listening. 

Photos courtesy of Sean Claffey


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:26 – Intro and Ed’s love of Dillon
  • 4:14 – The Sagebrush Sea
  • 7:19 – Pressures on the sea
  • 9:42 – Conifer expansion, the main reason for grassland reduction
  • 12:00 – Ecological, environmental, economical
  • 17:52 – Working with the timber industry
  • 21:59 – Southwest Montana Sagebrush Partnership, not just another NGO
  • 26:41 – Sean’s first priorities with SW MT Sagebrush
  • 30:11 – The way the water should flow
  • 34:47 – Youth programming
  • 40:53 – Cheatgrass, an actual cheater
  • 43:47 – Containing cheatgrass
  • 45:01 – Cheatgrass and fire
  • 47:02 – Working with private landowners
  • 52:58 – Connecting with the community
  • 58:21 – A little more about Sean
  • 1:01:10 – Career advice for people who want to make the world a better place
  • 1:03:54 – Book recs and life recs

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Adam Cramer – Fighting for the Future of Public Lands

Adam Cramer

Adam Cramer is the CEO of the Outdoor Alliance, a coalition that brings together human-powered outdoor recreation groups to protect public lands and waters. With a deep understanding of both policy and recreation, Adam has helped position the Outdoor Alliance as a powerful voice in the national conservation movement—bridging the gap between grassroots outdoor communities and high-level decision-making in Washington, DC.

Before launching into public lands advocacy, Adam spent years working as an attorney in DC. But outside the office, his life was centered on outdoor adventure—he started as a skateboarder, then became a climber, and eventually a whitewater kayaker. A chance encounter in a river parking area led to his first pro bono conservation case, and that spark ultimately evolved into his full-time vocation. Adam’s story is a testament to the idea that if you care deeply about a place, there’s a way to use your unique skills to help protect it.

In this conversation, we talked about the origins of the Outdoor Alliance, Adam’s evolution from attorney to coalition-builder, and why generosity—not dominance—is his guiding principle for leadership. We discussed why civic engagement matters more than ever, how outdoor recreation can build bipartisan bridges, and why showing up—even when it feels small—can make a real difference. 

It’s worth noting that we recorded this conversation in early June 2025, just as a wave of new legislation and political turbulence was rolling across the public lands landscape. Since then, things have continued to change rapidly. If you care about the future of outdoor recreation and conservation in this country, I highly recommend signing up for the Outdoor Alliance’s newsletter or following them on social media to stay informed and involved. 

Again, a big thanks to the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation for introducing me to Adam and another big thanks to Patagonia Denver for generously letting us use their community room to record this conversation. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of Adam Cramer and the Outdoor Alliance


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.

To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.

Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.

To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:05 – Intro (with a jiu jitsu connection)
  • 6:45 – Law school, then what?
  • 8:01 – The individuality of skateboarding
  • 10:38 – Billdering
  • 11:45 – Beginning of kayaking and the end of a relationship
  • 13:40 – A type of code switching
  • 16:26 – Giving back to the places
  • 23:03 – How Outdoor Alliance came together
  • 27:51 – Sticking points
  • 30:46 – Attorney mindset to strategy point-person
  • 33:13 – Leadership inspiration
  • 37:24 – A generous mindset
  • 42:49 – Who’s pro selling off public lands?
  • 45:21 – Guidepost goals
  • 49:04 – The reason Adam got on the plane to Colorado, where he’s talking with Ed
  • 48:14 – Why you should engage with your elected officials
  • 58:30 – Evidence the world doesn’t totally suck
  • 59:43 – Optimistic?
  • 1:03:40 – How to get involved
  • 1:05:06 – Book recs

Information Referenced:



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Tony Bynum – Showing Up for the Land

Tony Bynum

Tony Bynum is a conservation photographer, scientist, and advocate who’s spent decades working at the intersection of public lands, Indigenous rights, and environmental storytelling. Based in Montana, his images have helped shape national conversations around energy development, landscape protection, and the cultural importance of the Northern Rockies. His work has been published widely and used by countless conservation organizations to make the case for protecting wild places.

Before photography became his profession, Tony spent many years working for the Yakama Nation as a senior scientist, eventually landing in Washington, D.C., where he helped shape tribal environmental policy at the highest levels of government. But his path was never linear. A born-and-bred Westerner, he’s been a cowboy, a fly fishing guide, a federal program manager, and a backcountry wanderer. His guiding principle—“Don’t just love something, do something for it”—has carried him through an unconventional but deeply impactful career.

In this episode, Tony tells us about his winding path and the values that have guided him along the way. We dig into his time in D.C., his decision to walk away from a conventional career, and the beginnings of his conservation photography—especially his long-running effort to document proposed energy development on the Blackfeet Reservation and the edge of Glacier National Park. As you’ll hear, I stepped back a little bit in the conversation and let Tony tell his story in his own words, and the result is a thoughtful and unfiltered look at what it means to live a life rooted in land and responsibility.

Thanks so much for listening, hope you enjoy!


All photos by Tony Bynum


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:02 – Intro, where Tony grew up
  • 6:21 – Cue, photography in the early days
  • 9:15 – Just doing interesting things
  • 13:13 – Indigenous and Western takes on science
  • 18:35 – Family dynamics
  • 21:24 – Where the work ethic came from
  • 23:14 – Where Tony didn’t tread
  • 25:48 – Cue, bureaucracy
  • 31:07 – Lessons from the copy room
  • 36:17 – Tony’s purpose in DC
  • 39:01 – And why he had to leave
  • 40:41 – Restarting in Montana
  • 42:46 – Full-time photography
  • 47:07 – A diverse portfolio
  • 50:16 – Film to digital and internet access
  • 56:05 – Finding conservation
  • 58:18 – Energy development near Glacier and the Blackfeet Indian Reservation
  • 1:02:52 – The importance of having a visual context
  • 1:04:04 – Describing the oil and gas map
  • 1:09:51 – Book recs
  • 1:18:04 – Final words

Information Referenced:



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Jackie Miller and Carlos Fernández – A Breakthrough Moment for Colorado Conservation

Jackie Miller

Jackie Miller is the Executive Director of Great Outdoors Colorado (GOCO), and Carlos Fernández is the Colorado State Director for The Nature Conservancy. Both are highly respected leaders in Colorado’s conservation community, and they’ve played pivotal roles in shaping the state’s approach to protecting land, water, wildlife, and outdoor access. While Carlos has joined me on the podcast several times before, this is Jackie’s first appearance, and I was honored to have them both on to discuss one of the most significant conservation developments in recent memory.

Carlos Fernández

Just a few weeks ago, the State of Colorado announced the launch of its Outdoors Strategy—a comprehensive, collaborative roadmap designed to align the state’s conservation, outdoor recreation, and climate resilience efforts for decades to come. Developed through years of planning, dialogue, and consensus-building across hundreds of organizations and communities, the Strategy addresses some of the most pressing challenges facing Colorado’s landscapes and communities. It’s not just a plan—it’s a shared vision backed by actionable goals, clear metrics, and powerful tools for implementation at the local and statewide levels.

In this wide-ranging conversation, we discuss the origin of Colorado’s Outdoors Strategy, the urgency behind its creation, and the unique collaborative process that brought it to life. Jackie shares how GOCO’s long-standing community partnerships and flexible funding model positioned the organization to lead at a statewide scale, while Carlos explains how the Strategy dovetails with The Nature Conservancy’s science-based goals and priorities. We also explore the Strategy’s “North Star” goals, the innovative Resource Hub that supports on-the-ground action, and the importance of regional implementation and tribal engagement. It’s a timely, inspiring look at how Colorado is setting a national standard for coordinated, community-driven conservation.

Photos courtesy of TNC and GOCO


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:03 – Intros, Carlos then Jackie
  • 5:09 – Explaining Great Outdoors Colorado
  • 8:51 – How Jackie got to GOCO
  • 11:37 – Carlos on GOCO
  • 15:29 – Challenges and opportunities that led to Colorado’s Outdoors Strategy
  • 19:04 – Opportunities that the Strategy will address
  • 21:33 – Jackie’s executive summary
  • 27:01 – How the Strategy aligns with TNC’s other goals
  • 29:59 – North stars and measuring success
  • 33:22 – The TNC tools Carlos is excited about
  • 36:34 – Creating urgency to execute a plan
  • 40:14 – Face-to-face
  • 42:51 – Carlos’s thoughts on execution
  • 45:49 – How the plan affects the layperson
  • 47:25 – What did we miss? First Jackie
  • 51:29 – Then Carlos
  • 53:31 – Book recs
  • 57:42 – Wrap up words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Sonnie Trotter – On Flow, Family, and the Long Game

Sonnie Trotter and family

Sonnie Trotter is a world-renowned rock climber, father, husband, writer, and the author of the new book Uplifted: The Evolution of a Climbing Life. For the past three decades, Sonnie has built a career as one of the most accomplished climbers of his generation— pushing standards, putting up first ascents, and bringing a sense of creativity, humility, and grit to every project he tackles. His new book, Uplifted, is part memoir, part meditation on movement and meaning, and it’s one of the most thoughtful and grounded climbing books I’ve read in a long time.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Sonnie and I talk about the unexpected ways writing has shaped his life, how his approach to climbing has evolved over the years, and what it’s been like to move from living out of a van to raising a family in the mountains of Canada. We also discuss how he’s stayed grounded throughout his career, his relationship with sponsors like Patagonia, and why gratitude—not rage or ego—has been the driving force behind his decades of commitment to climbing.

Sonnie also opens up about how parenting has shifted his perspective on adventure, freedom, and ambition—and how he and his wife are raising their kids in a way that emphasizes curiosity, effort, and joy. Whether you’re a climber, a writer, a parent, or just someone trying to live a meaningful life, there’s a ton of wisdom in this one.

Sonnie’s new book Uplifted is out now, and I highly recommend picking up a copy—you’ll find a link in the episode notes, along with links to everything else we discussed. Hope you enjoy both this conversation and the book.  Thanks for listening. 


Photos courtesy of Patagonia: Header by Ben Moon, Family shot by Sonnie Trotter


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 1:55 – Intro, how Sonnie got into writing
  • 4:58 – Influences
  • 8:30 – Why write this book now
  • 12:40 – Stumbling into the climbing world
  • 17:45 – Into the unknown
  • 20:27 – Origins of drive
  • 25:07 – Climbing’s darkness
  • 27:11 – The road to Patagonia
  • 32:23 – Parent perspectives
  • 36:54 – Becoming a parent
  • 42:35 – Getting kids active (a jiu jitsu segway)
  • 48:13 – Training, nutrition, and getting older
  • 52:47 – Race to 9A
  • 56:31 – Book recs
  • 59:29 – Final words of wisdom — get back to work

Information Referenced:



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Cassidy Randall – The Untold Story of Denali’s First All-Women’s Ascent

Cassidy Randall

Cassidy Randall is a journalist and author whose work explores the intersections of adventure, history, and the natural world. Her new book, Thirty Below: The Harrowing and Heroic Story of the First All-Women’s Ascent of Denali, tells the gripping true story of six women who, in 1970, became the first all-female team to summit North America’s tallest mountain. It’s a meticulously researched, beautifully written account that brings long-overlooked voices to the forefront of mountaineering history.

As someone with a deep personal interest in Denali, I was especially excited to read this book and speak with Cassidy. In our conversation, we talk not only about the origins of Thirty Below and the individual women at the heart of the story, but also about Cassidy’s career as a journalist— how she got started, the path she’s carved through the world of longform storytelling, and how she approaches writing with such clarity, depth, and purpose. She also shares insights into her research process, the challenge of shaping complex narratives, and the broader importance of telling stories that have too often been overlooked or dismissed.

Whether or not you’ve ever set foot on a glacier, Thirty Below offers a deep dive into universal themes— resilience, purpose, and the human desire to explore. It’s a story about ambition and endurance, but also about complexity, contradiction, and the ways women have long carved space for themselves in places that often excluded them. Cassidy brings these histories to life with nuance and empathy, honoring the individuality of each woman while raising timeless questions about legacy, belonging, and what drives us to push beyond our limits. 

Thanks to Cassidy for writing the book and for taking the time to chat. I hope you enjoy.


Photos courtesy of Cassidy Randall


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:06 – Intro, how did Cassidy get into Denali?
  • 8:28 – Getting to know Grace
  • 13:08 – Landscape of women in climbing
  • 18:16 – Margaret and her journey with multiple sclerosis
  • 22:39 – Why do people climb mountains?
  • 25:38 – Grace at 88, any discontent?
  • 28:08 – Ed on his experience climbing Denali
  • 31:02 – The process of climbing
  • 37:39 – Adventure for the sake of adventure
  • 42:23 – Writing advice on structure
  • 45:41 – Source change
  • 47:07 – Book writing compared with magazine work
  • 50:36 – Early creativity threads
  • 53:28 – Shifts in the writing industry
  • 55:24 – What is journalism’s role anymore?
  • 1:00:17 – It’s alive! (The content we’re consuming.)
  • 1:01:19 – Denali or McKinley?
  • 1:04:37 – Writer recs
  • 1:08:03 – Pro tips on being a writer
  • 1:10:17 – Wrapping it up

Information Referenced:



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Sara Domek – The Science and Story of Wyoming’s Wildlife Migration

Sara Domek

Sara Domek is Wyoming’s Migration Program Director for The Nature Conservancy. Sara grew up in the small town of Kemmerer and later moved to Pinedale, giving her a rare, firsthand perspective on Wyoming’s working landscapes— both from a natural resources and a conservation standpoint. Her upbringing, paired with years of experience working in nonprofits, agencies, and boots-on-the-ground conservation, makes her uniquely suited to lead TNC’s efforts to protect Wyoming’s world-renowned wildlife migrations.

If you’ve spent any time driving through Wyoming, you’ve probably cruised past some of the most important migration corridors in North America—maybe without even realizing it. Sara and her team are working to keep those landscapes permeable, helping mule deer, pronghorn, elk, and other species continue the seasonal journeys they’ve been making for thousands of years. We talk about the science behind migration, how seemingly small barriers like fences can create big challenges for wildlife, and how collaborative conservation— between landowners, agencies, and nonprofits— can create real, lasting wins.

Sara also shares some fascinating details about Wyoming’s longest mule deer migration, the importance of building trust with local communities, why cheatgrass is a bigger villain than it looks, and how carefully designed wildlife crossings can benefit both animals and people. We also get into her favorite books, why she’s hopeful about the future, and, once again, the simple but powerful idea that success in conservation often comes down to strong relationships.

This is a thoughtful and inspiring conversation with someone who truly embodies the spirit of collaborative, community-driven conservation. I hope you enjoy!

Header photo courtesy of TNC and by Scott Copeland, headshot by Sara Domek


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:50 – Intro, growing up in Wyoming, and valuing natural resources
  • 6:09 – Pinedale and the Wind Rivers
  • 7:15 – Plan after high school
  • 10:37 – Finding TNC
  • 14:16 – Sara describes her job
  • 17:21 – Mule deer and pronghorn migration corridors
  • 21:57 – Fencing and migration
  • 26:25 – Getting the word out about fencing
  • 29:27 – Migration primer: distance, predators, and collisions
  • 35:54 – Valley of the warm winds
  • 42:37 – RCPP programs
  • 45:27 – Cheatgrass 101
  • 48:54 – Important partners
  • 51:08 – Prioritizing projects
  • 54:40 – What Sara’s looking forward to
  • 57:57 – Where to learn more
  • 1:00:22 – Book recs
  • 1:03:04 – Parting words

Information Referenced:



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Cody Wellema – After the Fire, Before What’s Next

Cody Wellema
(photo by Farhad Samari)

Cody Wellema is a master hatmaker and the founder of Wellema Hat Co., a highly regarded, California-based custom hat business. For over a decade, Cody built a reputation as one of the country’s premier craftspeople in the art of traditional hatmaking, creating heirloom-quality hats by hand, using vintage tools and techniques that harken back to a slower, more intentional era. His work has been worn by artists, ranchers, musicians, and everyday folks alike, and his shop became not only a destination for finely made hats, but a gathering place rooted in community and craft.

On January 8th of this year, Cody and his family lost their Altadena storefront and workspace in the Eaton Canyon Fire, one of the many devastating fires that destroyed a large part of the greater Los Angeles area in early 2025. In the aftermath, he has navigated an overwhelming combination of grief, logistics, and uncertainty—yet throughout it all, he has maintained a sense of gratitude, humility, and forward-looking optimism that is as rare as it is inspiring. As he puts it, the fire forced a kind of reset—one that, while painful, has given him a blank page and the opportunity to reimagine the next chapter of his creative life.

In this conversation, we talk about Cody’s early entrepreneurial spirit, his deep appreciation for vintage craftsmanship, and how he taught himself the trade by deconstructing old hats and learning from the past. We also explore the role of presence in parenting, the importance of community, and the creative possibilities that can emerge when the old path is unexpectedly cleared. Cody’s story is one of resilience, creativity, and deep care– for people, for his craft, and for doing things the right way.

I was so inspired by Cody’s optimism and gratitude, and I know you will be too. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to everything we discussed, including a GoFundMe page that was set up to support Cody and his family during this unexpected time of chaos.

Thanks for listening, I hope you enjoy!


Photos by Farhad Samari


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Intro, how’s Cody doing?
  • 7:04 – His default wiring is optimism
  • 8:49 – Setting an example for the kids
  • 10:52 – Roots
  • 12:41 – Cody’s evolution
  • 17:33 – Heading out on his own
  • 19:31 – Getting to hats
  • 25:50 – Taking apart old hats
  • 28:33 – Monetization
  • 30:59 – Hindsight and going all in
  • 34:41 – The fear of diving in
  • 38:33 – Time to define
  • 41:14 – More than just hats
  • 46:29 – Blessing in the bad
  • 51:59 – Moving on
  • 56:00 – Cody’s first time voicing his new idea
  • 1:04:59 – Taking the compliments
  • 1:08:56 – Figuring out a blank slate
  • 1:13:00 – Inspiration recs
  • 1:18:16 – Final words of wisdom

Information Referenced:



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Live from SXSW – Farmer-Founded Brands Will Save American Fashion

This is a special live episode recorded this past March at SXSW in Austin, Texas, and it features a conversation I had the honor of moderating with two powerhouse guests: Cate Havstad-Casad of Range Revolution and Daniel Mouw of Duckworth.

The title of the panel was Farmer-Founded Brands Will Save American Fashion. At first glance, that might sound like a bold claim, but these two are actually doing the work to make it real. Cate is a designer, hatmaker, and regenerative rancher whose company Range Revolution is turning discarded cattle hides into regenerative high-end leather goods. Daniel is the president of Duckworth, a Montana-based wool company that’s rebuilding the American supply chain– one sheep, sweater, and ranch at a time.

Together, we dug into some big questions: What happened to American-made textiles? Why are most of us walking around wearing plastic? And what would it look like to rebuild rural economies from the ground up, using natural fibers like leather and wool, raised and processed responsibly, here in the United States? It might sound like we’re talking fashion and manufacturing trends—but this is really a conversation about values, ecosystems, and the future of rural America.

Cate and Daniel are funny, deeply thoughtful, and grounded in the realities of both agriculture and business. They bring hard-earned optimism to a conversation that too often gets bogged down in doom and gloom. And they make a compelling case for why fashion can be a vehicle for stewardship, beauty, and connection to the land. We also had a sharp, engaged audience that asked some truly insightful questions– you’ll hear a few of those toward the end.

Thanks to Cate and Daniel for the amazing conversation, thanks to SXSW for inviting us, and thank you for listening.


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:10 – Introductions
  • 6:35 – A history lesson in US fiber production
  • 10:22 – Current supply chain challenges facing producers
  • 16:17 – Why natural fibers are superior to synthetics
  • 19:17 – The true cost of synthetics and fast fashion
  • 23:17 – How Range Revolution and Duckworth are restoring economic power to ag producers
  • 27:36 – The unique role of for-profit businesses in solving these challenges
  • 33:13 – Positivity as a strategic business decision
  • 37:09 – How do you scale this regenerative fashion movement?
  • 40:32 – Embracing natural characteristics in design
  • 42:06 – How to capture attention in today’s information age
  • 46:13 – What would an ideal community support system look like?
  • 50:26 – Fabric frequencies!
  • 52:53 – How to convert standard retail buyers into regenerative buyers
  • 56:40 – Any collaboration with the EU fashion industry?

Information Referenced:



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Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet

ELLIOT ROSS
(by Miguel DeLeon, 2020)

Elliot Ross is a photographer and writer whose work focuses on the intersection of landscape, identity, and justice in the American West. His images have appeared in Time, National Geographic, and The New York Times, and he’s known for deeply researched, long-term projects that combine striking visual storytelling with a journalist’s rigor. Whether he’s documenting water access on the Navajo Nation or tracing the contours of Glen Canyon as it reemerges, Elliot brings a rare mix of artistry, empathy, and precision to every assignment.

Born in Taiwan and raised on the eastern plains of Colorado, Elliot grew up between cultures and landscapes—an experience that shaped both his worldview and his creative path. He picked up a camera early, inspired by his grandmother’s family albums, and later earned a full-ride to the Savannah College of Art and Design. After college, he cut his teeth in New York City, assisting some of the most high-profile portrait and fashion photographers in the industry. All the while, he was quietly dreaming about building a career on his own terms—one rooted in storytelling, purpose, and the landscapes he still called home.

In this episode, we talk about the early experiences that shaped his artistic voice, the evolution of his career, and how he’s learned to navigate the demands of both commercial and documentary work. Elliot shares the backstory of his recent Time magazine cover story on water equity in the West, a project that involved years of reporting, deep community ties, and even a return to the classroom. We also discuss his thoughts on creative endurance, working across political divides, and the role of photography in fostering empathy and connection.

I’d encourage you to visit Elliot’s website and dig deeper into all of his work, especially his project A Question of Balance, which became the Time magazine feature. You can find links to everything in the episode notes. Thanks to Elliot for the inspiring and timely conversation, and thank you for listening.

Photos courtesy of Elliot: Header by Max Lowe, headshot by Miguel DeLeon


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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation.

To whom much is given, much is expected. This value guides the philosophy behind the Mighty Arrow Family Foundation today.

Committed to its cause and infused with an entrepreneurial spirit, Mighty Arrow aims to invest in solutions that take action on climate change to build a more vibrant future, repair relationships from farm to market to table, heal our connection to the lands and waters we call home, and demand a more just and equitable society.

To learn more about Mighty Arrow’s forward-thinking, optimistic, and visionary work here in the American West and beyond, please visit www.mightyarrow.org.


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:05 – Elliot growing up in Taipei and how his parents met
  • 6:00 – Few but vivid memories of Taipei
  • 7:09 – The culture shock of moving to eastern Colorado
  • 8:25 – How photography came into Elliot’s life
  • 10:29 – Reading influences
  • 13:16 – Travel bug
  • 16:22 – Savannah College of Art and Design
  • 18:07 – The Asian parents pressure
  • 19:49 – Credit to high school art teachers
  • 20:54 – Figuring out photography
  • 27:47 – No wavering
  • 29:54 – Moving into independent business
  • 33:29 – Pitching Carhartt
  • 37:03 – Nat Geo ups and downs
  • 42:10 – Near-death experiences
  • 45:44 – Approaching long-term projects
  • 49:35 – Pulling on threads
  • 51:45 – Humans and landscapes
  • 56:35 – Curiosity as the most authentic de-escalator
  • 58:05 – Writing and shooting and doing it all
  • 1:02:45 – Response to the Time story
  • 1:07:35 – A tale of two places
  • 1:13:45 – Using water in the West
  • 1:16:35 – The Desiderata creed
  • 1:17:05 – Book recs
  • 1:23:05 – Parting words

Information Referenced:



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Aaron Citron: Crafting Conservation Policy in a Changing West

Aaron Citron

Aaron Citron is the Associate Director of External Affairs at The Nature Conservancy, where he leads state-level policy engagement across Colorado. His work spans a wide array of conservation priorities, including water management, healthy forests, renewable energy siting, and partnerships with private landowners and tribal nations. Aaron plays a key role in bridging on-the-ground conservation efforts with the legislative and regulatory frameworks that support them. He also helps shape TNC’s strategy around climate and energy policy, working to ensure a rapid but responsible transition to renewable infrastructure.

Aaron grew up in Tucson, Arizona, where early exposure to the desert landscape—and its vital, limited water resources—sparked a lifelong interest in the natural world. After studying history and political science at Emory University, he returned west for law school at the University of Arizona, focusing on water and land use law. His career has taken him from local land trusts to national NGOs like Environmental Defense Fund, always at the intersection of policy, place, and practical impact. Along the way, he’s built a reputation for thoughtful, collaborative work that reflects both his legal background and his deep connection to the West.

In our conversation, Aaron shares a detailed look at how conservation policy gets made—from coalition-building and legislative drafting to navigating complex stakeholder relationships. We discuss examples like Colorado’s response to Clean Water Act rollbacks and new tools to support in-stream flows on the Yampa River. He talks about the balance between urgency and patience, the importance of trust in long-term conservation, and how calm, clearheaded engagement can shape better outcomes. It’s a compelling look at the behind-the-scenes work that makes public-facing conservation efforts possible.

Be sure the check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed and links to everything. Thanks to Aaron for this conversation and thank you for listening. Enjoy!

Photos courtesy of The Nature Conservancy, Header photo: Sunset on the Yampa River at Carpenter Ranch in Northwest Colorado. © John Fielder


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

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Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:15 – Starting at the beginning, growing up in Tucson
  • 7:42 – Underrated Arizona
  • 11:23 – From environmental history to law school
  • 15:22 – After law school, including a TNC internship
  • 18:11 – Landing at the Arizona Land and Water Trust
  • 21:24 – Path to TNC
  • 24:06 – Aaron’s role at TNC
  • 27:42 – Clean Water Act protection project
  • 33:40 – Getting the information to the people
  • 35:29 – Yampa River Fund
  • 40:39 – What makes someone good at policy work?
  • 46:11 – The power of relationships
  • 49:00 – Federal versus state policy focuses
  • 53:40 – Remaining calm
  • 57:21 – Book recs
  • 1:01:53 – Parting thoughts

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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David Cronenwett – Lessons from Jiu-Jitsu, On and Off the Mats

David Cronenwett

David Cronenwett is the owner of Helena Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and a third-degree black belt under American Jiu-Jitsu legend Rafael Lovato Jr. David started his Jiu-Jitsu journey in Seattle in 1996, back when finding a place to train was like stumbling upon a secret society. Over the years, he’s not only refined his own game but has shared this art with hundreds of students in Montana’s capital city since opening his academy in 2016.

But David’s path to Jiu-Jitsu wasn’t exactly a straight shot. He grew up in New Jersey, made his way west to study classical guitar at Cornish College of the Arts in Seattle right as the grunge scene was taking over, and eventually found himself in Montana, drawn by the wilderness and a deep-rooted need for something more. That “something more” turned out to be a mix of conservation work, backcountry living, and, of course, Jiu-Jitsu—an art that would come to define much of his life.

In this conversation, we go deep into the philosophy of Jiu-Jitsu: why it grabs certain people and won’t let go, how it humbles you, how it teaches you to remain calm under pressure, and how it can serve as a vehicle for self-improvement. But beyond that, we explore how Jiu-Jitsu teaches lessons that stretch far beyond the mats—lessons about patience, resilience, adaptability, and how to wisely face challenges in life. We also talk about the importance of culture in an academy, how a good training environment can shape people beyond the gym, and how the shared purpose and community of Jiu-Jitsu has a way of bringing together folks from all walks of life.

And for those of you who might be on the fence about trying Jiu-Jitsu, David has plenty to say about why it’s never too late to start and how it can change not just how you move, but how you see the world.

So whether you’re a seasoned grappler or just curious about what makes this martial art so addictive, there’s a lot to learn from this conversation. Enjoy!


Photos courtesy of David Cronenwett & Helena BJJ


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:15 – Getting to know David
  • 4:30 – Seattle to Montana
  • 6:30 – And from music to conservation
  • 7:45 – Early outdoor interests
  • 10:00 – First Jiu-Jitsu memories
  • 12:30 – Getting into Jiu-Jitsu
  • 16:30 – What is it about Jiu-Jitsu?
  • 21:00 – Community on the mat
  • 26:45 – Importance of having new trainees
  • 29:45 – Where the growth happens
  • 31:30 – Maintaining culture
  • 35:30 – Lessons from practicing and teaching
  • 42:30 – Obsessive types
  • 45:15 – Not for the bullies
  • 47:30 – Maintaining the practice as life goes on
  • 53:30 – Self-defense as an insurance policy
  • 1:01:00 – What Jiu-Jitsu gives you
  • 1:04:45 – Losing ego
  • 1:08:45 – Peaks and valleys
  • 1:12:30 – Not about the belts
  • 1:14:45 – Book recs
  • 1:21:30 – Thoughts on therapy
  • 1:23:45 – Parting words

Information Referenced:



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Helen Augare Carlson & Dylan DesRosier – Land, Language, and Stewardship in the Blackfeet Nation

Helen Augare Carlson and Dylan DesRosier are leaders, community builders, and proud members of the Blackfeet Nation. Helen, the Chair of the Piikani Studies Division at Blackfeet Community College, has dedicated over two decades to education, cultural preservation, and building pathways for future generations. Dylan, the Blackfeet Program Manager with The Nature Conservancy, brings a wealth of experience in conservation work rooted in respect for Indigenous knowledge and long-term community collaboration. In addition to their official roles, they both wear many hats when it comes to serving their communities—mentoring youth, engaging in policy discussions, telling stories, and working on grassroots initiatives that strengthen cultural and environmental resilience.

Dylan DesRosier

In this episode, we explore the profound relationships between land, language, and stewardship. Helen shares the moving story behind her Blackfoot name, Dylan reflects on his time working in Glacier National Park and how it shaped his conservation approach, and we dig into the groundbreaking Chief Mountain Initiative—an effort that weaves together conservation, education, and cultural revitalization.

We also discuss the evolving role of conservation organizations, TNC’s comprehensive approach to supporting Blackfeet initiatives, the importance of holistic thinking, and why Indigenous leadership is crucial for the future of land stewardship. As usual, we wrap up with some incredible book recommendations that will deepen your understanding of these topics long after the episode ends.

This conversation is rich with wisdom, humor, and insight, and Helen and Dylan make quite a team, bringing their unique expertise and shared passion for their community to this important discussion. I’m so excited for you to hear it. So let’s dive in—here’s my conversation with Helen Augare Carlson and Dylan DesRosier.

Header photo by Dylan DesRosier, headshots courtesy of Dylan and Helen


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

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…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:03 – Introductions, starting with Helen
  • 7:18 – Helen’s Blackfeet names
  • 12:18 – When to use “Blackfoot” or “Blackfeet”
  • 13:33 – Dylan’s bio and Blackfeet name
  • 17:48 – Community health and education
  • 23:03 – Why Dylan wanted to plug into TNC
  • 26:48 – Blackfeet connection to land
  • 30:33 – Helen’s thoughts on TNC
  • 36:03 – Face-to-face trust
  • 38:48 – Chief Mountain initiative
  • 45:48 – Measuring progress on a huge timeframe
  • 50:48 – Progress in Helen’s view
  • 56:03 – Like biodiversity, human diversity is important, too
  • 1:01:03 – What Dylan’s learned from Helen
  • 1:03:03 – And what Helen’s learned from Dylan
  • 1:06:33 – Book recs
  • 1:12:33 – Parting words
  • 1:15:03 – A Land Back addendum

Information Referenced:



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Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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George Hodgin Returns – On Risk-Taking, Leadership, and the Future of Cannabis

George Hodgin, Caroline Chambers, and their boys

George Hodgin is a former Navy SEAL turned entrepreneur who is revolutionizing the world of medical cannabis research. George is the founder and CEO of Biopharmaceutical Research Company (BRC), one of the only federally legal cannabis research organizations in the United States. His company is leading the charge in developing safe, regulated, and scientifically-backed cannabis-based therapeutics—offering alternatives to opioids and other pharmaceutical treatments.

This is George’s second time on the podcast—our first conversation was almost exactly five years ago, back when his company was in its early stages, the pandemic was just beginning, and he was navigating the uncharted waters of federal cannabis regulations. Since we last spoke, BRC has made huge strides—partnering with leading medical institutions, earning FDA orphan drug designation, and paving the way for legal, cannabis-based medications.

If you haven’t already, I highly recommend going back and listening to that first episode, where George shares the full story of his fascinating career trajectory—his time as a Navy SEAL, his MBA at Stanford, and his undergraduate experience as a Morehead-Cain Scholar at the University of North Carolina. That conversation is a great companion to this one and provides even more insight into his unique journey.

In this episode, George and I dive into the evolution of BRC, the shifting cultural & political landscape around cannabis, and what it’s like balancing an entrepreneurial mindset with the slow, methodical world of federal drug approval. We also talk leadership, risk assessment in business and combat, humility vs arrogance, and what it’s been like to watch his wife, bestselling author & culinary powerhouse Caroline Chambers, build an incredible career of her own. Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, plus links to resources, books, and more.

George is one of the most insightful, driven, and humble people I know, and I always learn a ton from our conversations. Whether you’re interested in business, science, leadership, or just a great story of perseverance and innovation, this episode has something for you.

Hope you enjoy!


Photos courtesy of George Hodgin and Caroline Chambers


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 2:36 – Reconnecting with George
  • 3:51 – George’s BRC elevator pitch
  • 6:51 – City of Hope collaboration
  • 10:36 – Choosing partnerships and plans
  • 13:36 – What makes a successful idea
  • 16:06 – Company mechanics
  • 18:21 – Energy balance
  • 22:06 – Cannabis in the name
  • 23:51 – Cannabis sentiments culturally shifting
  • 26:36 – But not legally
  • 28:06 – Regulations and competition
  • 32:21 – Different schedules of drugs
  • 36:36 – Betting on the idea versus the team
  • 41:21 – Risk framework
  • 46:51 – When do you stop planning?
  • 51:06 – Favorite failure
  • 55:36 – Not seeing the forest for the trees
  • 59:06 – Does cockiness play a role?
  • 1:02:06 – George’s wife’s cooking journey
  • 1:07:06 – General Mattis’ influence
  • 1:08:51 – Book recs
  • 1:11:06 – Parting words, asking Ed a question

Information Referenced:



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Ivan McClellan Returns – From Behind the Lens to Center of the Arena

Ivan McClellan

Ivan McClellan is a photographer, writer, and storyteller who’s shining a light on Black cowboy culture in a way that’s never been done before. When we first talked back in 2020, Ivan was in the early stages of immersing himself in this world—capturing rodeos, meeting cowboys, and telling stories that had largely been overlooked. Now, nearly five years later, he’s once again forging his own path by creating Eight Seconds Rodeo, an electrifying, high-stakes event that’s bringing some of the best cowboys and cowgirls in the country together to compete for serious prize money, all while celebrating a rich and important legacy.

In this episode, Ivan shares the inspiring story of how Eight Seconds Rodeo came to life—from a passion project sparked by tragedy to a must-see event that’s redefining the rodeo world. We dig into the challenges of launching something this big from scratch, the power of storytelling to shift culture, and what it means to build something bigger than yourself. Ivan also talks about his new photography book, his creative process, and how he stays grounded while juggling everything he’s got going on.

If you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to go back to our first podcast conversation, where we discuss Ivan’s early life and upbringing, as well as his journey into professional photography and the world of Black rodeo. It’s super inspiring to see how his career has grown and evolved over the last few years– and also to see how he’s continued to be such a humble, hard-working family man. 

Whether you’re a longtime rodeo fan or just love hearing stories about people chasing big, meaningful dreams, this conversation is for you.

As always, you can find links to Ivan’s work, Eight Seconds Rodeo, his book, and our first conversation in the episode notes. And if you’re near Portland or Philadelphia in 2025, do yourself a favor and check out one of his rodeos. You won’t regret it.

Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ivan McClellan!


Photos courtesy of Ivan McClellan and Eight Seconds Rodeo


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:20 – Checking in with Ivan
  • 7:05 – Eight Seconds Rodeo beginnings
  • 9:35 – Knowing Ouncie
  • 14:35 – The first step and conquering doubt
  • 16:05 – Choosing Portland
  • 18:35 – Someone to run the rodeo
  • 22:50 – Stories of the first rodeo
  • 26:50 – Year two
  • 29:05 – What’s in store for 2025
  • 32:35 – Balancing helping others and being the face
  • 38:05 – The driving force
  • 39:20 – The story of Ivan’s photography book
  • 46:35 – Is a written book in store?
  • 48:20 – Wearing a cowboy hat
  • 52:35 – For more info on Ivan

Information Referenced:



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Betsy Gaines Quammen Returns – Myths, Curiosity, and Human Connection (Live at the Old Salt Festival)

Betsy Gaines Quammen

Betsy Gaines Quammen is a Montana-based historian and writer whose work explores the history and myths of the American West, and how those stories have endured and shaped life in the region today. Betsy joined me on the podcast several years ago to discuss her amazing book, American Zion: Cliven Bundy, God, and Public Lands in the West, and since then, she’s published another must-read: True West: Myth and Mending on the Far Side of America. In True West, Betsy meets face-to-face with a wide range of folks here in the West– from militia members to hardcore environmentalists– and seeks to understand why they believe what they do. Combining these conversations with her deep understanding of history, Betsy is able to demonstrate the fascinating complexity and contradictions that define many of the people and issues in today’s West.

We recorded this conversation on stage at the 2024 Old Salt Festival, where Betsy was nice enough to join us for the three-day festival of music, food, and conversation. As you’ll hear me say in the episode, Betsy and her work have played a huge role in my never-ending quest to try and understand this region, and I consider her to be a great friend and mentor. But even if you don’t have any interest in the West’s history or modern-day conflicts, there are big lessons to be learned from Betsy’s approach to her work. She is committed to finding the humanity in everyone– even people she completely disagrees with. Rather than attack them and their ideas, she approaches them with genuine curiosity, really trying to understand what they believe and why. And even when no common ideological ground can be found, there is still mutual respect. And I think most people will agree that we need more of these types of respectful interactions these days.

In this conversation, we talk a bit about Betsy’s background and why she is so fascinated with understanding myths and the West. We talk about her commitment to having deep conversations with people across political and socio-economic spectrums, and she describes one of the unlikely friendships she built with a man whose views on politics, public lands, and the environment could not be further from her own. We discuss the importance of getting off the internet and having face-to-face conversations, how real estate development is changing the ecology and economics of the West, her thoughts on the future, and more. We also took questions from the audience, which was a lot of fun.

Again, I can’t thank Betsy enough for joining me onstage for this conversation, but more importantly, for the wisdom she has shared with me over the years. If you haven’t read True West, I encourage you to pick up a copy as soon as you can, and I’d also encourage you to listen to our first conversation, where Betsy talks a lot about her life and career journey. And tickets for the 2025 Old Salt Festival are on sale now, so if you’d like to experience conversations like this in person– plus music, food, Western makers, and more– follow the link in the episode notes to grab your tickets.

Enjoy!


Header photo by Ed, headshot courtesy of Betsy Gaines Quammen


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:15 – Introducing Betsy at Old Salt
  • 7:45 – Why the West?
  • 10:15 – Discussing myths
  • 14:15 – Betsy talks across the aisle
  • 17:30 – Betsy’s relationship with Lance
  • 19:45 – Lance’s email
  • 23:15 – Creating conversations outside the internet
  • 26:00 – Real estate development in the West
  • 30:00 – Covid as a catalyst
  • 34:30 – Predicting the future
  • 35:45 – Q&A
  • 39:15 – Should we trust the government?
  • 41:30 – Lance’s takeaways
  • 43:30 – A ‘real’ Montanan
  • 49:45 – Our energy future
  • 53:00 – Parting thoughts

Information Referenced:



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Chris Pague – Stories, Science, and the Southern High Plains

Chris Pague

Chris Pague is the Senior Conservation Ecologist at The Nature Conservancy, and he is deeply involved in so many of the topics we discuss here on the podcast– grasslands, bison, endangered species, landscape-scale conservation, and more. For many decades now, Chris has been working on the frontlines of TNC’s science-based conservation efforts, and during his tenure, he’s accumulated a mind-blowing amount of knowledge about everything from the tiniest prairie plants to the plains’ largest mammals. But what makes Chris so special is his ability to translate complex ecology into inspiring, impactful stories– stories that resonate with everyone from the most committed conservationists to people who are just beginning to learn about the West’s wild places.

Chris grew up in Virginia, and for as long as he can remember, he’s been obsessed with the outdoors, wild creatures, and all varieties of plants. He eventually moved West to take a job in Colorado with the Nature Conservancy, where he’s been an invaluable member of the team ever since. I personally credit Chris for helping me in my own journey to understand the importance of grasslands and connected landscapes across the Southern High Plains, thanks to a presentation Chris gave at an event I was attending over a decade ago. I know there are countless other folks just like me who credit Chris with helping them to better understand and appreciate pressing conservation issues— and more importantly, to take action. Between his on-the-ground ecology work and his gift of storytelling, it’s difficult to fully wrap my head around the scale of the positive impact Chris has had over his career.

So, I was long overdue in having Chris join me for a podcast conversation. We could’ve talked for many hours, but in this chat, we still managed to cover a lot, including: Chris’s upbringing in Virginia and some of our shared favorite Virginia landscapes; his decision to move to Colorado; the decades-long shift in thinking around grasslands conservation; the importance of storytelling to communicate critical science, TNC’s Southern High Plains Initiative; optimism and the wisdom of Ted Lasso; partnerships and relationships; favorite books, and much more.

A huge thanks to Chris for this wonderful conversation, but more importantly, thanks to Chris for his many decades of inspiring work. Enjoy.

Header photo courtesy of TNC– header by Terri Schulz


LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

…or wherever you get your podcasts!


EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:45 – Introducing Chris
  • 8:30 – Chris’s favorite Virginia spots
  • 9:45 – Making the decision to work for TNC
  • 12:45 – Grassland evolution
  • 17:30 – Why are grasslands important?
  • 21:15 – Science and storytelling
  • 24:15 – 50 years of land conservation history
  • 28:00 – TNC’s Southern High Plains Initiative
  • 35:15 – Protecting land
  • 42:30 – Keep or sell?
  • 47:45 – Building relationships
  • 52:45 – Ted Lasso and optimism
  • 56:45 – Increase in partnerships
  • 58:45 – What Chris is excited about
  • 1:03:45 – Book recs
  • 1:06:45 – Parting words

Information Referenced:



Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:

Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.


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Nicole Qualtieri – Charting a New Course in the Changing Landscape of Outdoor Media

Nicole Qualtieri
Photo by Lindsey Mulcare

Nicole Qualtieri is an outdoor writer and editor, a conservationist, and a committed outdoorswoman. Over the past decade, she’s worked with some of the most notable brands in the outdoor industry, including MeatEater, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, and GearJunkie, and she has bylines with many well-known outdoor publications, such as Outside, Modern Huntsman, and Backcountry Journal. But despite being plugged in with many of the best names in the outdoor business, she and a few creative friends decided to go out on a limb and start their own outdoor publication– one that focuses on substance over clickbait, depth and vulnerability over the silly quest for virality and search engine optimization.

The name of the project is The Westrn, and it combines the best parts of online writing and journalism with a printed, hold-it-in-your-hands newspaper that ships to subscribers four times per year. As you’ll hear Nicole describe, the topics covered by The Westrn’s include hunting, conservation, and a wide range of outdoor adventure. But the deeper point of it all is to build a tight-knit community of engaged outdoor enthusiasts of all stripes, who appreciate the value of nuanced writing, thinking, and publishing. As many legacy outdoor media brands have become controlled by private equity and now focus on scalability over creativity and quality, the role of people like Nicole and her partners at the Westrn are all the more important— they are taking a real risk to make the Westrn a reality, and I greatly admire their vision and commitment to action.

Nicole and I connected online– she was at her home in Anaconda, Montana and I was here in Colorado Springs– and we had an enlightening conversation filled with lots of laughs about her fascinating life, career, and the creation of The Westrn. We discussed her upbringing in what she describes as a high-control religious cult and how hunting and the outdoors were her way of working through some of that childhood trauma. We discussed her non-traditional career path, which included a stint as a stand-up comic, and how she worked her way into the outdoor industry. We discuss the importance of hard work, preparation, and grinding, and how self-confidence is generated from those activities. We discuss the current state of the outdoor media industry, the financial challenges of making it as a freelancer, her writing process, contentment vs happiness, favorite books, and of course, her goals for The Westrn.

Nicole was also kind enough to offer some discount codes for M&P listeners:

20% Discount off the Annual Subscription
—Link for M+P Listeners will auto-populate discount:  https://www.thewestrn.com/mtnprairie

20% Off Pre-Order Single Issues: 
—Use link to use code: https://thewestrnstore.com/discount/MTNPRAIRIE?redirect=%2Fproducts%2Fthe-westrn-individual-issue
—Or use code MTNPRAIRIE

A huge thanks to Nicole for the conversation, and thank you for listening. Enjoy!

The Westrn Newspaper– coming April 2025!


Photos courtesy of Nicole Qualtieri: Header by Ty Grethen of Weatherby; Embedded portrait by Lindsey Mulcare


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 4:30 – Nicole and Ed’s first convo (shared Roadhouse appreciation)
  • 6:15 – Nicole’s background
  • 8:15 – How writing’s been a part of Nicole’s life 
  • 13:15 – Getting out West
  • 16:30 – College degrees
  • 19:15 – On writing On Killing Animals
  • 21:00 – The grind and the craft
  • 28:00 – Taking the pain
  • 30:15 – Outside’s rejection of On Killing Animals
  • 34:45 – The corporatization of outdoor media
  • 44:30 – The Westrn
  • 54:30 – Taking a good idea and running with it
  • 59:45 – Etymology of happy
  • 1:02:30 – Nicole’s book recs
  • 1:07:00 – Parting words

Information Referenced:



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Hal Herring Returns – Live at the Old Salt Festival

Hal Herring
(photo: via BHA by by Tim Peterson)

Hal Herring is an award-winning outdoor journalist, fierce public lands advocate, and thoughtful, action-oriented conservationist. He’s also an accomplished podcaster and host of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers’ Podcast & Blast with Hal Herring. If you’re a longtime listener of Mountain & Prairie, you may remember my first episode with Hal back in December of 2019– pre-pandemic, when the world was a much different place. Like me, Hal was born and raised in the south, and also like me, his Southern accent has not faded. But he’s made Montana his home for many decades now and has established himself as one of the most respected voices in conservation here in the American West.

This episode was recorded live and on stage at the 2024 Old Salt Festival on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. If you’re not familiar with Old Salt, it’s a three-day gathering in Montana’s Blackfoot Valley that combines live Americana music with artists like Sterling Drake and Summer Dean, wood-fired cooking with chefs including Eduardo Garcia, and a General Store featuring western makers such as Cate Havstad, Jillian Lukiwski, Christy Sing, and many more. The festival also includes a ton of on-stage conversations about land stewardship, conservation, history, literature, and more– and this is one of those conversations.

Most of you are probably already familiar with Hal, but if you’re not, you are in for a treat. Hal brings such energy, humor, and knowledge to everything he does, and he has helped me in my own personal journey to better understand this complex region known as the American West. In this conversation, we covered a lot, including: Hal’s journey from Alabama to Montana, his thoughts on the current state of family ranching and public lands, optimism vs pessimism, and who he admires in the conservation space. We also discuss his forthcoming book on public lands, an idea he is working on for a new podcast, and we take a number of questions from the audience.

I know you’ll learn a lot from this episode– I consider Hal a great teacher and leader, and it’s always an honor to spend time with him. Tickets for the 2025 Old Salt Festival are on sale now, so follow this link to learn more and secure your spot at what will surely be another amazing weekend with amazing people.

Thanks to Hal for the conversation, to the Mannix Family for opening up their ranch for this festival and to you for listening!


Header photo courtesy of Old Salt, photo of Hal courtesy of BHA and by Tim Peterson


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RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Ed introducing Hal at Old Salt Festival
  • 4:45 – How Hal ended up in Montana
  • 7:15 – Hal’s thoughts on the consolidation, absorption of family ranches
  • 9:30 – Threat to public lands 
  • 11:15 – Hal’s “ah ha” moments as he’s researching his new book
  • 12:45 – Hal’s book recs
  • 15:00 – Finding common ground
  • 18:15 – Keeping the energy going 
  • 19:15 – Hal’s new podcast project 
  • 23:45 – What Hal views as current threats to public lands (1872 mining law)
  • 26:00 – Optimist or pessimist?
  • 29:15 – Who’s taking action?
  • 31:45 – Start of Q&A, Hal expanding on new podcast
  • 34:00 – Broadening the audience
  • 36:00 – What’s Hal doing beyond podcasting to trigger improvement?
  • 37:15 – Ideas into action
  • 39:00 – Project 2025
  • 42:15 – Getting people’s attention without scaring them
  • 44:00 – Future of journalism
  • 46:00 – Montana Senate race

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Scott Hulet: Reading + Writing + Surfing + Fishing + Traveling

Scott Hulet
(credit: Ben Steele)

Scott Hulet is a legendary writer, editor, and current Creative Director at The Surfer’s Journal. He also has a new book titled Flow Violento: A Scott Hulet Omnibus, which is a compilation of more than thirty years of his writing about surfing, fishing, travel, food, music, and more. If you subscribe to my book recommendations email, then you’ll already know how much I loved the book– Scott brings to life the cultures, waves, and landscapes of Latin America using his unique blend of insights, humor, and perfectly crafted prose. If you’re a fan of travelogues, adventure tales, and cultural immersion, I know you’ll enjoy Flow Violento.

Scott was born and raised in southern California, and he’s been writing for longer than he can even remember. Skating and surfing entered his life very early, as did travel to Mexico for surf trips. Through a deep commitment to the craft of writing and surfing, he’s been able to build a successful career that combines both. But for all his success, there have also been some speedbumps along the way, including a string of health scares during his fifties that culminated with a very serious stroke. But after a ton of hard work and help from some inspiring medical professionals, Scott was able to make a full recovery– and refocus his efforts on writing, traveling, and surfing.  

I’ve been a huge fan of The Surfer’s Journal and Scott for many, many years, so I was honored that he took the time to chat with me about his life, work, and the new book. I caught him just a few days before he took off to the Colombian Amazon for a fishing and research trip, and we had a fun chat about reading, writing, surfing, traveling, and more. Some of the topics include: his “hunting and gathering” approach to reading; some of his favorite childhood books; his first foundational surfing and traveling experiences; moving to Hawaii after high school; becoming a professional writer; the importance of approaching new cultures with respect; his health scares and lessons learned; his surprising thoughts on social media; rules for travel; and much more.

A big thanks to Scott for the conversation and his decades of important work.  And another big thanks to you for listening.  Enjoy!


Header photo by Ed, headshot by Ben Steele


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Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – Scott’s “hunting and gathering” approach to reading
  • 5:30 – Scott’s father’s influence on his reading
  • 7:00 – Favorite childhood books
  • 8:15 – A brief family history
  • 9:35 – Childhood activities in San Diego
  • 11:45 – First three foundational surfing experiences
  • 16:00 – First adventure in Mexico
  • 20:30 – Approaching new cultures and locations with respect… or else
  • 24:00 – Heading to university
  • 25:45 – Writing: from avocation to vocation
  • 28:00 – Mentors
  • 34:30 – How TSJ has maintained such a loyal following in the changing world of print media
  • 36:45 – A surprisingly positive take on Twitter/X
  • 39:45 – The importance of knowing a wide range of people with wide ranges of ideas
  • 44:45 – The art of editing
  • 47:15 – Courting the Muse
  • 49:30 – Lessons learned from several super-intense health trials
  • 53:30 – Pre-stroke Scott vs post-stroke Scott
  • 55:45 – How to stand out from the crowd as a creative
  • 57:15 – There are still unknown, off-the-map places to discover
  • 59:00 – Rules for thinking traveler
  • 1:01:00 – Important books
  • 1:05:00 – Parting words of wisdom

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2024 Reads

A comprehensive list of every book I recommended in 2024, taken directly from my bimonthly book recommendations emails.


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Let’s Explore Diabetes with Owls: Essays, Etc. by David Sedaris – The more I read David Sedaris, the more I am in awe of the mind-blowing skill and soul he brings to the craft of telling hilarious stories. His observations are so specific, the dialogue so perfect, his language so precise– but nothing ever crosses into being mean. He never strikes me as being bitter or angry– if anything he’s over-the-top sensitive and compassionate. Even though many of his stories veer into topics that could be considered controversial, his genuine curiosity about people and situations allows him to magically sidestep any blowback that often accompanies outrage-inducing issues. This book is yet another collection of essays, all of which are amazing. But I especially enjoyed– and laughed hard at– Standing Still, A Friend in the Ghetto, and Loggerheads, and I love his constant references to my old stomping grounds of Raleigh, North Carolina. The only problem with Sedaris’s books is that they set an unachievable standard for normal people like me who want to write funny stories. [When You Are Engulfed in Flames was the first Sedaris book I ever read and I was hooked.]

The Status Game: On Human Life and How to Play It by Will Storr – Have you noticed how crazy people are acting these days? I think humans have always been a little nutty, but it seems that we’re reaching new heights of derangement as both individual creatures and a collective species. If you’re like me and have an unhealthy obsession with trying to understand exactly why humans are bananas crazy, this book is for you. Its basic premise is that we humans are driven by a foundational desire to achieve higher and higher status. “Status” does not necessarily mean being being the “coolest,” or the “richest,” or a member of the “best” frat or country club. According to Storr, there are status games played among even the most selfless of us– even, for example, monks (Who is the most pious?; The most committed?; Who can meditate the longest?; etc). The pursuit of status is hardwired into our DNA and it has been driving our species forward from the very beginning. But status games get real weird, real quick in our super-connected, highly complex modern world. Thanks to the internet, humans are now playing practically infinite status games, oftentimes against people we don’t even know. And status game overload leads to, you guessed it, nuttiness. [The last book that made me think this long and hard about humans was Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari.]

Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It by Chris Voss – One of my best friends– we’ll call him “Cole”– is a master negotiator. It doesn’t matter where he’s shopping or what he’s buying, Cole will reliably negotiate any price down to a mere fraction of its list price. It could be a television at Best Buy, a mirror at a flea market, installation of internet at his house, or mattresses at the furniture store– the question is not if he’ll get a discount, only how absurd it will be. These negotiations are reliably some of the funniest, most fascinating, most confounding interactions to observe, and I’ve been observing them for nearly 30 years. Yes, I’m in awe of how he’ll manage to buy a mattress for 25% of its list price– ethically, with no under-the-table funny business. But more impressively, after every one of these negotiations, the salesperson (the guy who just agreed to a 75% revenue cut) seems to be absolutely thrilled with the way the transaction played out. Elated! Cole is the salesperson’s new best friend, and they are laughing and shaking hands and slapping each other on the back as they part ways, making plans to do business again in the future. Somehow, Cole turns these crazy interactions into genuine win-wins for everyone involved. If you want to learn how Cole does it, read this book. [One of the best business books I’ve ever read is The Future of the Responsible Company by Vincent Stanley.]

Art, Artifact, Artifice and Ocean Fishes by James Prosek – One of the great pleasures of the past year has been getting to know the artist, naturalist, conservationist, and all-around-interesting dude, James Prosek. James has devoted much of his three-decade career to studying fish, birds, eels, grasslands, and the natural world through his art– his paintings and sculptures are stunning and speak for themselves. But if you’ve ever heard James speak or read his writing, then you quickly realize that the actual artwork is just the very tiny tip of a ridiculously huge iceberg– there is a hulking mass of deep thought, research, and philosophy beneath every piece he produces. Both of these books are coffee-table-style tomes that would look great in your home for decades to come. Yes, by all means, leaf through the books and admire the one-of-a-kind art. But be sure to read (and re-read) James’s essays, so that you can begin to understand the level of depth that he brings to his art. And as a bonus, Ocean Fishes features a forward by the great Peter Matthiessen. [To hear James speak eloquently and humorously about his art and artistic process, check out our recent on-stage conversation at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art.]

For some reason, over the past two months, I found myself revisiting some of my old favorites. Not reading them all the way though, but flipping through and re-reading the sections that I underlined or starred during my earlier readings. It’s amazing to me how certain passages can take on completely different relevance during different stages of life. Here are a few that I’ve likely recommended many times before and enjoyed once again:

  • Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger – This book continues to unexpectedly pop up in conversations, most recently with a high-ranking Army officer who credits it with positively steering his life, family, and career during a pivotal few years of his service. I have given away countless copies of this book and consider it to be one of the most important books I’ve ever read.
  • Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha by Tara Brach – Without fail, I periodically fall into troughs of aggressive self-flagellation, all of which are very unpleasant and mostly pointless. When this invariably happens, I reach for Tara Brach to bring me out of the fog.
  • The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield – No matter how many times I revisit this book, I find a few new nuggets that truly help me resist distraction, push through procrastination, and get my work done. After my most recent reading, I took my most aggressive stance toward fortifying my focus yet: I bought a flip phone.
  • Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk – I’m not sure why I’m so obsessed with jiu jitsu. I’m not good at it, I don’t enjoy being choked, my pinky toes are perpetually black and sprained, it’s an in-the-face reminder that I’m a middle-aged man, and, on Monday, my earlobe started bleeding profusely. I thought Fight Club might help me understand why I love “The Gentle Art” so much, but it didn’t. But I was glad to revisit my underlined passages regardless.

The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook by Hampton Sides – I’d been looking forward to this book for five-and-a-half years, and it was well worth the wait. As is the case with all of Hampton Sides’ books, I felt like I had taken a three-month graduate-level history course, but without the hassle of all the boring lectures and writing assignments. Yes, the book digs deep into the action-packed story of Captain Cook and his map-making compatriots, but Sides devotes equal attention to the fascinating culture and history of the Polynesian people. You don’t have to be a tenured professor of late 18th-century history to know that Cooks’ legacy is, at best, “complicated,” and this book explores all of the competing (warring?) perspectives about the man and his impact on world history. A fun and deeply substantive read– highly recommended. [Another action-packed, thought-provoking book that I will re-recommend is John Vaillant’s Fire Weather.]

Sea People: The Puzzle of Polynesia by Christina Thompson – A day after finishing The Wide Wide Sea, I started in on Sea People, frantically trying to jam more information about Polynesia into my already full brain. This book contains so much amazing history and analysis, and it is mindblowing to learn how the Polynesians successfully navigated and “mapped” the entire region from Hawaii to Easter Island to New Zealand. But, unlike the Europeans, their version of “mapping” did not rely on two-dimensional charts, compass readings, and mathematical calculations. Their approach was more of a three-dimensional, holistic framework– one that incorporated winds, currents, and time. For me, perhaps the biggest takeaway from this book was a reminder that our latest and greatest technologies and mental models will not always be the best or most effective ways of approaching problems. [Speaking of the sea, one of my all-time favorite books is Cod: A Biography of a Fish That Changed the World.]

Ultra-Something by Brendan Leonard – Brendan was kind enough to ask me to blurb this, his newest book, so I did my best to string together some words to make me sound like a refined connoisseur of sophisticated literature: “‘Why would you do something like that?’ is a question every ultrarunner has received– usually from a wide-eyed, slack-jawed acquaintance who seems equally concerned and confused by the idea of running 100 miles. In Ultra-Something, Brendan Leonard answers that (perfectly reasonable) question, offering a poignant, insightful, at-times hilarious examination of his unlikely journey in ultra-endurance sports. Whether you’re a Hardrock 100 finisher or just signed up for your first 50K, you’ll glean valuable wisdom and inspiration from Leonard’s deep dive into the ‘why’ of ultrarunning.” The book also features many excellent drawings of rats, pizza, 42,000 cigs, maps, and the like. [The book is officially on sale May 23rd, but you can sign up here to receive a free chapter and a reminder when it’s available.]

Patagonia National Park: Chile by Kristine McDivitt Tompkins, Linde Waidhofer, Yvon Chouinard, et al. – If, like me, you watched and loved the documentary Wild Life, then you’re most likely a superfan of Kris Tompkins. After leaving her post as CEO at Patagonia, she and her late husband Doug began their decades-long project of conserving vast swaths of South American wilderness. To date, their organization, Tompkins Conservation, has protected approximately 14.8 million acres of wildlands, transforming them into Chilean and Argentinian National Parks. This coffee-table-style book is the story of one of their most notable projects– a former sheep ranch that is now a crown jewel of Chile’s National Park System. Filled with beautiful photos and inspiring essays, the book is a case study in collaboration, trust, relationships, and overcoming the odds to achieve extremely challenging goals. Available now at Patagonia.com, everywhere else on May 22nd. [I had the great pleasure of chatting with Kris about the book, and many other fascinating topics, in this recent podcast episode.]

Tao Te Ching: The Book of the Way by Lao Tzu – I somehow ended up deep in an internet rabbit hole of Taoism, a topic I vaguely remember studying in a college religion class (but promptly forgot everything except that the T is pronounced like a D). The Almighty Algorithm directed me to this book, which I bought and have been reading off and on for the past few months. As far as I can tell, Taoism is all about balancing the opposing forces in our lives, about not veering too far toward any extreme. You know, the yin and the yang. Many of the chapters remind me of Buddhist koans, which invariably jam up my second-rate mind, leaving me feeling confused and inadequate. But every now and then, one of the verses hits me really hard, miraculously allowing me to live a more balanced life for about 45 seconds. Abbreviated enlightenment– I’ll take it! [Another book that’s worth a twice-per-week scan is The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday.]

Way of the Warrior Kid: From Wimpy to Warrior the Navy SEAL Way by Jocko Willink – I gave this book to my oldest daughter a while back, and recently, she casually mentioned that she had read it eight times. That’s quite an endorsement from a discerning bookworm like her, so I decided to give it a quick read. As you’d expect from anything Jocko writes, the book is laser-focused on values like humility, courage, leadership, and work ethic, but, in this book, it’s all presented in a very inviting and kid-friendly tone– a tone that obviously resonated with my violin-playing, tap-dancing 8-year-old. I can only imagine what my jiu-jitsu-doing, rock-climbing 6-year-old will think when she reads it– she very well may wander down to the local Navy recruiting office and try to enlist. [Speaking of kid’s books, Hatchet and My Side of the Mountain continue to be perpetual crowdpleasers in the Roberson household.]

In My Time of Dying: How I Came Face to Face with the Idea of an Afterlife by Sebastian Junger – I’m an unabashed Sebastian Junger superfan. I read everything he writes, listen to all of his podcast appearances, and his film Restrepo is one of my all-time favorite documentaries. He was also the inspiration behind my long-overdue reversion to a flip phone. So– surprise, surprise– I loved this book. His descriptions of finding himself minutes away from dying of a pancreatic aneurysm is unsettling and scary, especially since he was the picture of physical health before that artery burst. But what I enjoyed most was his open-minded exploration of the mystery of what lies just on the other side of our here-on-earth existence. Junger is an avowed atheist, but not so tied to that “belief” that he cannot open his mind to the idea that there may be something more to be experienced when we die. Now more than ever, I appreciate curious, open-minded people like Junger who are willing to reconsider closely held ideas that are cornerstones of their identities. [Just last week, I gave yet another copy of Junger’s Tribe to a friend.]

True West: Myth and Mending on the Far Side of America by Betsy Gaines Quammen – Betsy is a renowned historian, gifted and skilled storyteller, and one of my most trusted sources for understanding the complexity and nuance of the modern-day American West. Whether reading this, her newest title, or her earlier work, American Zion, you will finish each book with a wealth of knowledge about the history, culture, and people who have shaped the mythical narrative of “The West.” But perhaps more importantly, I found True West to be a masterclass in learning how to think– how to embrace nuance, ask tough-yet-sincere questions, stress test all preconceived ideas, and avoid demonizing individuals with whom you may disagree. Betsy’s reporting style hammers home the power of face-to-face communication and shows the importance of approaching “the other side” with respect and genuine curiosity. While our current culture seems quick to apply good/bad, right/wrong labels to everything, True West reminded me that everything is complicated. And that’s a good thing. [Another perspective-shifting book about the West (and more) is An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz.]

The Gift of Violence: Practical Knowledge for Surviving and Thriving in a Dangerous World by Matt Thornton – If you’ve been unlucky enough to have a one-on-one conversation with me anytime over the past seven months, I have likely blasted your eardrums with a breathless, wide-eyed soliloquy about the life-changing effects of Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. My wife and girls continue to ask if I “joined a cult.” Whether I’ve been brainwashed or not is debatable, but there’s no question that I’ve had my eyes opened to the humbling realities of fighting and physical violence. This book thoughtfully and eloquently explores ideas around real and fantasy martial arts, pacifism, and performative aggression, without any of the macho, wanna-be-tough-guy nonsense that often defines such discussions. In my humble opinion, I don’t think the publisher did a great job with the book’s subtitle or inside-the-jacket description– the book is much more of a philosophical exploration than a “practical guide.” [The only other fighting book I remember reading was A Fighter’s Heart by Sam Sheridan, and it was great.]

This Ordinary Stardust: A Scientist’s Path from Grief to Wonder by Alan Townsend – As the father of two young girls and the husband of a way-out-of-my-league woman, this book hit me hard. It’s the story of Alan’s family being rocked to the core by two unthinkable, back-to-back tragedies– his four-year-old daughter and brilliant wife both being diagnosed with brain tumors. Alan is a highly trained, Ph.D.-level scientist who spent his entire career using cold hard facts, emotionless inquiry, and academic rigor to try and solve some of the world’s most pressing problems. Yet when faced with a father/husband’s worst nightmare, he was forced to accept that science alone was simply not enough to make it through this gauntlet. I was blown away by Alan’s insightfulness and vulnerability and how he managed to constructively meld science and spirituality to make sense of an unimaginable catastrophe. I consider this one of the more important books I’ve read, and despite having to constantly clean the tears off of my reading glasses, I am a better person after reading it. [My go-to book about dealing with challenges or tragedy is Pema Chodron’s When Things Fall Apart.]

The Colorado River: Chasing Water by Pete McBride – Like so many of my favorite authors, Pete makes it effortless– even fun– to learn about the complexities of the American West. Whether he’s delving into the threats facing the Grand Canyon, the surprising effects of noise pollution around the world, or, in this case, the plight of the Colorado River, Pete’s stunning photography and thoughtful prose makes the medicine go down. In this book, Pete explores his “backyard river,” from its headwaters in the Colorado Rockies all the way to where it peters out just short of the Gulf of Mexico. My favorite parts of the book were the substantive photo captions– extensive, hundreds-of-word paragraphs that effectively explain everything from challenges to Native communities to the unexpected water conservation success story that is Las Vegas. I was especially taken aback by the exporting of water-intensive alfalfa to Middle Eastern countries– a scheme that strikes me as pure insanity. Buy the book, put it on your coffee table, and learn from it for years to come. [My most-recommended river/water book is Downriver by Heather Hansman.]

Denali: A Man, a Dog, and the Friendship of a Lifetime by Ben Moon – I’ve long admired Ben’s work as a photographer, filmmaker, and adventurer, and as of two days ago, when I finished this book, I greatly admire his work as an author. If you’ve ever had a dog that seemed to understand you more than any humans do, this is your book. It’s an extension of Ben’s award-winning, tear-jerking film Denali, which is 100% guaranteed to make you sob (in the best possible way). The book follows Ben’s 14 ½ year companionship with his faithful canine partner Denali, who guides him through the peaks and valleys of a very intense life– a divorce, a battle with colorectal cancer, his eventual dependence on a colostomy bag, and his commitment to a life of adventure and purpose-driven work, colostomy bag be damned. Perhaps I’m biased because I credit a sweet-but-nutty lab named Abby for patiently guiding me from idiot college kid to fatherhood, but I’m confident that this book will mean a lot to anyone who has experienced that deep, DNA-level dog-human connection. [To understand why we connect with dogs, read The Wolf in the Parlor by Jon Franklin.]

Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business by Neil Postman: If you need something to make you feel better about the frantic state of our insanely connected world, I’m sorry, but this is not your book. Written almost thirty years ago, it offers a sobering, if not terrifying, analysis of just how shallow our approach to once-serious subjects has become– and how that shallowness is eroding society. Postman places the blame on the proliferation of “electronic media,” which, in 1985, meant a handful of TV stations. How quaint. As I read this book, I was constantly thinking about 1) how eerily ahead of his time Postman was with his observations and arguments, 2) how no one could’ve ever predicted just how wacko the world of electronic information would become, and 3) how uber-wacko things will be five years from now. The most powerful passage from the book is in the foreword, and you can read that here. This was a tough and, at times, infuriating book to read, but I’m glad I did. [If you need help counteracting the daily onslaught of electronic garbage, read Deep Work by Cal Newport.]

Flow Violento: A Scott Hulet Omnibus – The reason I love surf writing has very little to do with the authors’ descriptions of riding waves. My favorite surfing tales take me to wild landscapes and underappreciated cultures, combining adventure, history, danger, and introspection with a cast of oftentimes nutty characters. For more than three decades, The Surfer’s Journal has delivered the best-of-the-best surf writing, much of which was either written or edited by the great Scott Hulet. In Flow Violento, we’re gifted with some of Scott’s most impactful stories from a lifetime of surf-driven exploits south of the border. Scott takes us far outside the well-worn, user-friendly resort areas of Mexico and Central/South America, and deep into communities and surf breaks that are not just under the radar, but sometimes straight-up hostile to interlopers. And you don’t have to be a surfer to fall in love with Hulet’s writing– fishing, music, food, and art play just as much of a role in these stories as do the waves. [No surprise here, but one of my favorite surfing books that’s about a lot more than surfing is Barbarian Days by William Finnegan.]

A Promised Land by Barack Obama – What I look for in a memoir: Fun-to-read writing; laugh-out-loud humor; deep dives into the “why” of pivotal decisions; a detailed understanding of the people/places/experiences/cultures that shaped the author’s worldview; enlightening historical context; the author’s most brutal challenges and how they were overcome; opportunities to evolve my thinking on a few topics; humility; passion; purpose; commitment; optimism; self-doubt; extreme hard work; and crazy behind-the-scenes stories. What I don’t look for in a memoir: To have my preexisting opinions confirmed; to agree in lockstep with the author’s ideas/choices/worldview; surface-level boringness; or prose obviously written by a team of insufferable PR suits. Conclusion: This book met and/or exceeded all of my criteria and now sits alongside Acid for the Children and Shoe Dog as an all-time favorite memoir. [This seems like a good place to remind everyone of FAQ #7.]

A Cowgirl’s Conservation Journey: Stories from the Dugout Ranch by Heidi Redd with Larisa Bowen – Speaking of excellent memoirs, this one also met all of the criteria mentioned above. It’s the story of the legendary cowgirl and conservationist Heidi Redd, and her lifelong commitment to stewarding the 340,000-acre+/- Dugout Ranch, which is located within the boundaries of Utah’s Bears Ears National Monument. From her earliest years, Heidi has lived quite an adventurous and purpose-driving life– what started with a childhood love of horses quickly evolved into a wide range of action-packed sports, including skydiving and rock climbing. She then took her willingness to push herself outside her comfort zone and applied it to what would become her life’s work: Protecting the Dugout Ranch. This is a coffee table-style book, so Heidi’s words are complimented by copious photos and maps, which I loved. If you’re a fan of history, adventure, ranching, conservation, and tough, purpose-driven people, this is your book. [For a different approach to protecting the landscapes of southeastern Utah, read Edward Abbey’s Desert Solitaire.]

The Necessity of Wildfire: Poems by Caitlin Scarano – I’m not cultured or confident enough to offer any sort of meaningful analysis of poetry. All I know is that every so often, I’ll read a poem and have an unexpectedly intense appreciation for the words on the page. I can’t explain why, and it would probably ruin the poetry if I aggressively focused on trying to figure it out. So I’ll keep this simple: If I had to describe The Necessity of Wildfire in one word, I’d say it’s “brave.” Scarano digs into deeply personal topics including family, relationships, and past trauma, but does so with a clear-eyed, confident, curious approach that I find both admirable and inspiring. I can’t imagine that her intended audience was a 46-year-old-father-of-two who is obsessed with jiu-jitsu and Road House, but I think this highlights Scarano’s skill as a poet– she cuts through the surface-level nonsense and connects with other humans on a foundational level. [Another poetry collection I loved was Blood Is Not the Water by Mara Panich.]

Comfortable with Uncertainty: 108 Teachings on Cultivating Fearlessness and Compassion by Pema Chödrön – For many years now, I’ve proudly proclaimed to have read all of Pema’s books— but I was wrong! Somehow I had completely missed this one, which is one of her best. Other than The Pocket Pema Chödrön, I’d say this is her most accessible collection of writings, with each chapter being no more than two pages. It’s the kind of book I like to keep on my bedside table and read a chapter or two before bed or first thing in the morning. One of the many things I love about Pema is that she offers actionable, powerful wisdom, but with a sense of humor and without any spiritual arrogance or pretense. I’ve long said that Pema is one of the wisest humans on Planet Earth, so, if you have not explored her work, this book would be a good place to start. [If you prefer listening, check out Pema’s Don’t Bite the Hook.]

Andy Catlett: Early Travels by Wendell Berry – If you’re looking for a book to help you disconnect from the chaotic insanity of the internet and bring some balance to your brain, this one is a good choice. It was my first dose of Wendell Berry fiction, and it won’t be my last– in fact, I’m already 50 pages into my next one. Set in small-town Kentucky during the early 1940s, the book hammers home so many of the ideas Berry explores in his non-fiction writings: community, faith, family, connection to the land, and living life at a natural, human pace. But this is not some Pollyanna-esque description of the “good ol’ days”– Berry’s characters wade into the realities of racial inequality, economic pressures, and looming societal/technological threats to community cohesiveness. I underlined more passages in this book than I do in most of my non-fiction readings, and I’m still thinking about its themes many times per day. It’s only 140 pages– so read it! [My most revisited non-fiction Wendell Berry book to date is It All Turns on Affection.]

Grizzly Confidential: An Astounding Journey into the Secret Life of North America’s Most Fearsome Predator by Kevin Grange – Over the years, I’ve read a lot about grizzlies, and I thought I had a decent understanding of the animal and cultural issues surrounding it. However, like any great book, Grizzly Confidential opened my eyes to just how little I actually knew about the topic. Grange is a paramedic, firefighter, and journalist, so he combines his adventurous spirit with his ability to tell a great story and explores grizzlies from a brand new perspective. He visits bear preserves in Alaska, university research facilities, hotbeds of bear poaching, and areas that have cracked the code on successful human-bear coexistence. The book is part travelogue, part adventure story, and part science– making for a fun and educational read that I highly recommend. And for any of you who have been following the untimely death of Grizzly 399 in Wyoming, you may be interested to know that that iconic bear was the inspiration for this book. You can listen to Kevin talk about it in our recent podcast chat. [Another excellent book about bears and wild places is Doug Peacock’s Was It Worth It?]

Cobalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives by Siddharth Kara – This is a very important book and I think everyone who owns a smartphone should read it– but I feel bad recommending it because it will infuriate and/or depress you. It’s an exposé of the cobalt mining business in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is probably the most horrifying and corrupt large-scale industry on planet Earth. Cobalt is an essential ingredient in rechargeable batteries, so every phone, computer, electric car, renewable energy array, etc. depends on a steady supply of this rare earth metal. Unfortunately for everyone involved, a significant portion of all cobalt in the supply chain was dug from the earth by the hands of desperate men, women, and children who are endangered, abused, effectively enslaved, and sometimes killed. I experienced many sad and guilty thoughts while reading this book, but the most notable were: 1) imagining my nine-year-old daughter being forced to dig cobalt out of a toxic mine, and 2) the realization that I’ve played a role in funding this humanitarian crisis through my purchases of phones and computers. Hopefully, this book and others like it will encourage/force trillion-dollar companies to use their vast resources to take responsibility and demand reform at the bottom of the markets they have created. [After finishing Cobalt Red, you can deal with your guilt by reading Tara Brach’s Radical Acceptance.]

The Wisdom of the Bullfrog: Leadership Made Simple (But Not Easy) by Admiral William H. McRaven – A few weekends ago, during a full-day binge of household projects, I listened to nearly eight hours of Admiral McRaven podcast interviews (here and here). I’d read his book Make Your Bed many years ago but had never heard the man speak at length. I was obviously off-the-charts impressed. Yes, he’s confident, smart, and tough, but what I found most interesting were his genuine humility and service-oriented mindset. I immediately ordered and read this, his newest book, and, given the number of notes I took while reading it, I expect to be referencing it for years to come. As the subtitle says, it’s very simple, to-the-point leadership lessons from his thirty-seven years of elite military service– lessons that seem applicable whether you’re leading an actual team of humans or, like me, just trying your best to lead yourself. [The most important leadership/self-leadership book I’ve ever read is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin.]

The Blue Plate: A Food Lover’s Guide to Climate Chaos by Mark Easter – I cannot overstate how much I enjoyed and learned from this book. I’ve spent a big chunk of my career in the conservation and environmental sectors, but have to embarrassingly admit that I didn’t fully understand many of the concepts around carbon emissions, carbon sequestration, and the specifics of greenhouse gases. Enter Mark Easter, who uses his decades of experience as a scientist and “carbon accountant” to explain these concepts as they relate to the production, consumption, and disposal of food. And now, 400 fun-to-read pages later, that gaping hole in my knowledge base has been filled! This is not a gloom-and-doom climate change book, nor does it have the patronizing, condescending tone that often accompanies many climate-related readings. While Easter is crystal clear about the massive threats facing our planet, this is a book built on the ideals of optimism, ingenuity, and taking action. And by focusing on something that we all do–eating–he is able to reduce enormously complex concepts down to an approachable, human scale– one that anyone with curiosity and an open mind can understand and appreciate. [Another favorite food book is Animal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara Kingsolver.]

Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey [Audiobook] – I read the old-fashioned paper version of this book back in 2020, and I really enjoyed it. Since then, at least twenty people have recommended the audio version, swearing that having McConaughey read it to you triples the fun. I agree. I rarely listen to audiobooks– I quickly become bored and distracted– but this one had me locked in from the first sentence. It’s a mixture of McConaughey’s life story and his mantras for living a good life, all of which are extremely entertaining. It’s positive, fun, funny, lighthearted, genuine, sincere, generous, thoughtful, wise, and aspirational– exactly what I needed over the past few weeks. [I have only read it, but people I trust swear by the audio version of Flea’s Acid for the Children.]

Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry – It’ll take me a few years to know for sure, but this might be the best novel I’ve ever read. It’s one of Berry’s many stories from the fictional community of Port William, Kentucky, as seen through the eyes of the town barber and gravedigger Jayber Crow. Using his otherworldly poetic prose, Berry reveals the sweet, oftentimes heartbreaking, humanity of his characters, at times overwhelming me with feelings of empathy and compassion– two emotions that are admittedly in short supply for me these days. As is the case with all of Berry’s writing, Jayber Crow explores ideas around community, land, connection to place, encroaching technology, family, and loss. And for a guy who doesn’t read many novels, I’ve been surprised to discover that Berry’s wisdom is most potent for me when delivered via fiction. So potent, in fact, that I unexpectedly started crying multiple times while reading the book. I will only devalue this masterpiece by continuing to try and explain it– you should just read it. [In October, I read Berry’s Andy Catlett: Early Travels, which started me on what is going to be a very long and meaningful Port William journey.]

Swell: A Sailing Surfer’s Voyage of Awakening by Captain Liz Clark – I love reading about surfing, sailing, and wild adventures, so I knew I was going to enjoy this book. It’s the story of Liz Clark’s 20,000-mile, multi-year, mostly solo nautical adventure that took her from Santa Barbara to the South Pacific and beyond. The book is written in the present tense and reads very much like a super-engaging travel journal, making me feel like I was experiencing the adventure in real-time, alongside (or perhaps inside the brain) of Captain Clark. I especially appreciated her vulnerability around the challenges of working with her mind during such a solitary, mentally taxing adventure, and I was glad to read that the great Pema Chödrön played such an important role in her mindfulness evolution. As the father of two young girls, I have a deepening interest in learning about the mental operating systems of strong, independent, confident women, so this book was as enlightening and educational as it was a classic, fun-to-read adventure tale. [And speaking of the South Pacific, I must re-recommend The Wide Wide Sea by Hampton Sides and The Sea People by Christina Thompson.]

Bad Monkey by Carl Hiaasen – Given how outraged and divided people seem to be, I feel like one of the few remaining ways to make important points about serious issues is through humor and satire. And Carl Hiaasen is the master. For many decades now, he’s been ripping to shreds Florida’s low-life scammers, unscrupulous developers, and environmental destroyers, all while making me laugh hysterically. But hidden beneath all the insanely hilarious characters and their over-the-top shenanigans is Hiaasen’s deep love (and protectiveness) of the Sunshine State, its wild places, and its quirky culture. Even by Hiaasen standards, this book is extra crazy– it features a hairless monkey people mistake for a human child, a voodoo spell-casting “Dragon Queen,” a severed human arm with a frozen-in-place extended middle finger, McMansion vandalism, and a ridiculous medicare scam involving electric scooters and elderly retirees. You know, typical Florida stuff. It’s hilarious, insightful, easy to read, and fun. Like everything Hiaseen writes, I highly recommend it! [I haven’t watched it yet, but the same guy who produced Ted Lasso created an AppleTV series based on this book, starring the always-hilarious Vince Vaughn.]

What to Cook When You Don’t Feel Like Cooking by Caroline Chambers – Fun/weird fact about me: I have a medically diagnosed, abnormally dull sense of taste– i.e., my taste buds don’t really work. I consider it a blessing because I don’t have to waste any of my already scarce brain cells thinking about food. But, unfortunately for my family, my inability to taste has made me a lousy cook. Thankfully, that all changed a few weeks ago when What to Cook arrived at our doorstep (thanks, Aunt Jenni!). I psyched myself up, followed the instructions with laser-like precision, and 45 minutes later, produced a batch of “One-Pan al Pastor Enchiladas” that received 100% rave reviews from the entire fam. But you don’t have to be a rookie chef like me to appreciate this book. My wife, who is an excellent cook, has found some really fun and quick recipes that taste great (so I’m told). Wish me luck with tonight’s “Turkey Taco Salad.” [The only other cookbook I’ve used successfully is Hank Shaw’s Buck, Buck, Moose: Recipes and Techniques for Cooking Deer, Elk, Moose, Antelope and Other Antlered Things.]

Into Wooperland: A Photographer’s Journey with Whooping Cranes by Michael Forsberg – If you’re not familiar with photographer Mike Forsberg, you’ve been missing out. Yes, his art brings to life the magic of the Great Plains. And yes, he creates an emotional connection to this one-of-a-kind region that would make even the most thick-skulled observer want to protect it. But when you pay close attention to the meaning and energy behind all of Mike’s work, you’ll find one of the most committed conservationists anywhere– a guy who has dedicated his life to protecting one of the most important ecosystems on earth. In this book, he focuses on the imperiled Whooping Crane, mixing stunning photography with prose, history, maps, and journal entries. Embarrassingly, before reading this book, I knew next to nothing about the Whooping Crane– now I’m trying to figure out a way to get to Nebraska to experience them in person. A powerful work of art by a real-deal, purpose-driven, change-making conservationist. [Another beautiful/powerful/educational coffee-table-type book is Pete McBride’s The Colorado River: Chasing Water.]

I also revisited a few books that continue to provide great wisdom, no matter how many times I page through them: Home Ground: A Guide to the American Landscape edited by Barry Lopez and Debra Gwartney, Relentless Solution Focus: Train Your Mind to Conquer Stress, Pressure, and Underperformance by Dr. Jason Selk, All the Rage: Buddhist Wisdom on Anger and Acceptance edited by Andrea Miller, Jiu-Jitsu University by Saulo Ribeiro, Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual by Jocko Willink, and NOLS Wilderness Wisdom edited by John Gookin.

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Rusty Bell & Justin Loyka – Economics, Energy, and Community Pride

Rusty Bell

Rusty Bell is the Director of Gillette College’s Office of Economic Transformation, and Justin Loyka is the Wyoming Energy Program Director at the Nature Conservancy. Rusty and Justin are working together to find sustainable, economically viable solutions to the energy transition that is currently taking place in and around Gillette, Wyoming. Gillette and Campbell County, Wyoming have long been leaders in the United States’  coal production business and have been a foundation of West’s economy for decades. But over the past 15 years or so, coal production has decreased by approximately half, which will have far-reaching consequences for Gillette, the state of Wyoming, and the West.

But as coal mining scales back, Gillette is uniquely positioned to capitalize on the rise of renewable energy and the many positive economic and environmental ripple effects that it creates. Campbell County’s landscape, workforce, infrastructure, transmission capabilities, and wildlife migration patterns offer huge opportunities to be a future hotbed of renewable energy. By transitioning reclaimed coal mines into renewable energy sites, Campbell County will not only be able to fill in the economic gap created by the contraction of the coal business, but will be able to allow Gillette to continue its culture of innovation, hard work, and community pride for decades to come.

Justin Loyka

Rusty was born and raised in Gillette, and Justin’s been living and working in Wyoming for almost 15 years. As you’ll hear, they’ve formed a partnership based on optimism, creativity, respect, and pragmatism, and they are making great strides to bolster the economic and environmental future of northeastern Wyoming. We talked about a lot in this conversation, including: A history of Wyoming’s coal mining business; the culture and community pride of Gillette; why Gillette is a perfect place for renewables; cultural and political views on renewables; wildlife considerations; details around coal mine reclamation, ways to build trust and lasting relationships; and more. Justin and Rusty also share ideas about why they work so well together, and they both offer some great book recommendations and wise parting words.

I loved this conversation and learned so much about not just energy production, but also community pride, pragmatism, problem-solving, and respectful, productive relationships. A huge thanks to Rusty and Justin for joining me, and thank you for listening. 

Header photo courtesy of TNC, others courtesy of Rusty and Justin


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EPISODE PARTNER:

This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org


RESOURCES:

Topics Discussed:

  • 3:30 – A brief history of the coal business in Wyoming
  • 10:00 – The unique culture and economy of Gillette, Wyoming
  • 16:30 – Some background on coal mine reclamation
  • 22:30 – Why Gillette is such a prime location for renewable energy
  • 26:00 – Wildlife considerations
  • 29:45 – Transmission capacity considerations
  • 31:30 – What is a megawatt?
  • 34:00 – The cultural and political acceptance of renewables
  • 38:30 – Justin’s approach to building trust in Wyoming communities
  • 43:30 – The positive ripple effects of a renewable economy
  • 48:30 – What Justin admires about Rusty
  • 51:30 – What Rusty admires about Justin
  • 53:45 – TNC’s role in this energy and economic transition
  • 57:30 – How the new Presidential administration will affect this work
  • 1:03:30 – Favorite books
  • 1:07:15 – Parting words

Information Referenced:



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