Celene Hawkins is the new Colorado River Program Director for The Nature Conservancy, stepping into the role after years of impactful work in tribal water policy and place-based conservation across the basin. She’s taking the baton from Taylor Hawes, who led the program for nearly 17 years and is now serving as the Colorado River Program’s Special Advisor. It’s a leadership transition at a critical moment for the Colorado River, and in this episode, I was lucky to sit down with both of them in person to talk through the handoff—what’s changing, what’s staying the same, and what the future of the river might look like.
This is both Celene and Taylor’s second time on the podcast, and we cover a lot of ground. We talk about the ongoing negotiations over new operating guidelines for the river—what’s on the table, why the stakes are so high, and what happens if the basin states can’t come to an agreement. We dig into tribal involvement—how things are (slowly) changing after decades of exclusion, and why stronger tribal participation is essential to any long-term solutions. We also explore how conservation groups are bringing new ideas, resources, and partnerships to the table, from modeling future scenarios to piloting creative water-sharing and resilience strategies across the West.
And beyond the policy, we talk about what it actually takes to lead in a time of uncertainty—how to stay grounded, keep teams motivated, and maintain momentum when the challenges feel overwhelming. As always, Taylor and Celene bring a clear-eyed sense of purpose and a refreshing mix of realism and optimism to the conversation.
We’re releasing this episode just ahead of Colorado River Day, which falls on July 25th. So if you care about the West, public lands, rivers, or just want to better understand one of the most important water and conservation challenges in North America, this is a great place to start.
Thanks for listening, I hope you enjoy!
Photos courtesy of TNC, header photo © Eloise Kendy
LISTEN & DOWNLOAD:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
…or wherever you get your podcasts!
EPISODE PARTNER:
This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.
During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond. You can access all of the episodes here.
To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org
RESOURCES:
Topics Discussed:
- 3:02 – Intro, Taylor’s career shift
- 7:27 – Celene’s journey into Taylor’s old role
- 9:07 – What Taylor’s proud of
- 13:16 – Celene’s pitch for the job
- 15:21 – Exciting initiatives
- 17:18 – Overview of the Colorado River Basin negotiations
- 22:42 – Sticking points
- 23:54 – Finding the Indigenous voice
- 28:38 – Alternatives
- 31:37 – Work outside of negotiations
- 37:07 – Federal funding freeze impacts
- 39:04 – Effects of uncertainty
- 40:57 – Not getting bogged down
- 44:49 – What Celene’s learned from Taylor
- 46:28 – And how Taylor thinks Celene is well-positioned
- 47:22 – Book recs
- 51:37 – Wrapping up
Information Referenced:
- Taylor’s first M&P episode
- Celene’s first M&P episode
- TNC’s Colorado River Program
- Announcement of Celene’s new role as Director
- Jicarilla Apache Nation and Tribal water within the Colorado River Basin
- Maybell Diversion Project
- Pete McBride’s The Colorado River
- Colorado River Basin coverage: Inside Climate News, The Colorado Sun
- Endurance, By Alfred Lansing, about Ernest Shackleton
- Book recs: A Wrinkle In Time, Refuge, My Side of the Mountain, Hatchet, The Ministry for the Future, Braiding Sweetgrass
- Terry Tempest Williams NYT op-ed on public lands
- David Gessner M&P episode
Enjoy this episode? Then you might like these too:
- Pete McBride Returns – Exploring & Documenting His Backyard River
- Elliot Ross: Where Landscape, Justice, and Storytelling Meet
- Adam Cramer – Fighting for the Future of Public Lands
- Lorelei Cloud – Solving Modern-Day Challenges with Ancient Tribal Wisdom
- Frances Ashforth – Art, Water, and Wide-Open Spaces
- Rob Addington – A Deep Dive into Western Wildfires and Forest Health
Visit the podcast page for a full list of episodes where you can filter episodes by topic and guests’ vocations.
